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Bishop: Church’s equal marriage views may not reflect even a ‘sizeable minority’ of members

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  1. Thank You, Bishops.

    Its clear what has to be done – representation has to be made that Sentamu (who does not represent the views of the majority in the CoE) should not become AoC.

    Furthermore, thank you for being vocal on this issue – support must be mobilised to eradicate the inhumane approach of Anglican Mainstream, Sentamu and those who seek to deny civil (CIVIL) rights to LGBT people and use scaremongering and lies to facilitate this.

    If it requires Bishops such as Grantham, Buckingham, Salisbury etc to join another church and take flock with them to force the issue – then so be it.

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 25 Jun 2012, 12:49pm

    Marvellous to hear the voices of reason in the Anglican church. Perhaps similar minded clergy and congregants should seriously consider joining the Episcopalian branch of their faith, a much more progressive group it is too. Thank you, Bishops Ellis and Wilson, well done gentlemen.

  3. Finally the heart of the real CofE speaks.

    Be brave, Your Lordships, speak out loud and clear!

  4. This is quite ridiculous.. 3,400 signatures.. ooooh!.. And the 560,000 signature petition against gay marriage presumably was signed exclusively by atheists?? These liberal bishops have their view but I would ask them to provide evidence for their view that the Church is misrepresenting its flock on this matter.. I suspect they’re misguided.

    1. You’re entitled to feel they’re misguided, I doubt anyone really cares. But 3400 signatures for a petition solely concerning the Anglican church set up by a vicar in Derbyshire isn’t bad. It can’t be compared with a nationwide campaign promoted with a good deal of money by bigots (of more than one sect and mroe than one religion, or none) with no lives.

    2. Jen Marcus 25 Jun 2012, 1:24pm

      Bug off James, you are really full of it and yourself!

    3. I suspect they have spoken to their fellow clergy and their congregations and can identify reasonable grounds to suspect that the official church policy is not a view shared either by the majority of right thinking people in the UK nor the majority of people who are in the CoE.

    4. Robert in S. Kensington 25 Jun 2012, 2:33pm

      Calm down. Of those 560,000 signatories, not all are Anglicans, many are Catholics, Orthodox Jews, Agnostics and Atheists and underage children, as well as foreigners with fake UK addresses. Out of a population of roughly 60 million, it represents a mere fraction, only .009% of the British population, a rather dismal result either way and a petition that didn’t even mention that this was an entirely civil marriage issue and had nothing to do with forcing religious cults to recognise or participate in same-sex marriages.

    5. Jock S. Trap 25 Jun 2012, 5:09pm

      Perhaps James you’d rather people did nothing?

      I much prefer seeing these people standing up and speaking out, thank you.

  5. These are the kind of people that should be leading the CofE. This is the only way that they can make the church attractive again to those who have lost any faith.

    Modern and forward thinking, much needed in the CofE today!

    Thank you Bishops for speaking up on our side!

  6. AT LAST- some Bishops with common sense.

    AND YES! The Church of England is NOT the Roman Catholic Church-run by an old man in Rome.

    Hurray for Henry V111 and Elizabeth 1st.

    The anti-equal marriage lobbyists are LOSING THE BATTLE!!

    1. I go to a church of England church and I’m gay and they are so wonderful with me. They completely accept me and to be honest, I think if it was legal I could get married there…hmm..just got to find a boyfriend.

      1. Spanner1960 25 Jun 2012, 3:46pm

        Aww bless! *hugz!* x

      2. Keep looking … you and your partner just might make History!!!
        Good Luck!! :-)

  7. Have just read the Bishop of Granthams blog (worth checking out):

    http://fatherowl.wordpress.com/

    “So, I am forced to say that those of my colleagues who have spoken out on same-sex marriage do not speak for me and neither, I dare to say, do they speak for the Church of England-they are rehearsing their own opinions.”

    “It is this freedom of interpretation and of the need for structural adjustment to changing circumstances that has allowed our Church to leave many things to the individual’s conscience but also to make serious advancements such as the ordination of women to the priesthood. When we have veered from this freedom we have, for instance, caused ourselves the embarrassment of condemning Darwin. At the heart of this very attractive aspect of the Church of England’s life is the knowledge that we are a diverse and highly inclusive Church”

    “In response to the Government’s consultation on same-sex marriage, public statements have been made which purport to give the ‘mind’ of

    1. the Church of England. We seem to have got ourselves into an invidious position in, on the one hand, trying to support gay people in their relationships and affirm the love they hold and not to appear homophobic and, on the other hand, seeking to uphold a traditional view of marriage as being exclusive to a man and woman. I am sure that all the statements that have been made are sincerely put, but they appear anodyne because of the tension between the two positions.”

      “Freedom of speech means the freedom to disagree”

  8. Interesting comment by the Bishop of Buckingham:

    Wilson said that he had “evangelical” reasons for opposing the Church’s official statement.
    He explained, “There is a disconnect between the statement and the sermon on the mount. We are saying to people, ‘You are thrice cursed because of something you are’. It is fair enough to expect bishops to have asked, ‘What would Jesus do?’ I don’t think they did.

  9. Here is a list of some religious people and groups which support the proposals;

    – Tim Montgomerie, a committed Christian (ConservativeHome)
    – The new dean of St Paul’s Cathedral has called on the CoE to embrace gay marriage.
    – 120 Anglican clergy have asked to be able to officiate in Civil Partnerships
    – The Vicar of St Lawrence’s, Eastcote, in Pinner, the Revd Stephen Dando
    – Lead Chaplain, Royal Brompton and Harefield NHS Foundation Trust, the Revd Robert Thompson.
    – Reform Judaism
    – The Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    – Unitarians
    – Liberal Jews
    – Metropolitan Community Church
    – The Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement
    – The thinktank Ekklesia
    – The Catholic group Quest
    – Liberal wings of Buddhists
    – The Pagan Federation
    – 61% supported it amongst Christians (recent poll)
    – The new Bishop of Salisbury, The Rt Revd Nick Holtam
    – former Prime Minister Tony Blair, committed Catholic
    – The Progressive Christianity Network (PCN) a British faith-based group

    1. - Rt Rev Nicholas Holtam, the Bishop of Salisbury
      – Deans of St Albans, Portsmouth, Norwich, and Guildford
      – Retired bishops Richard Harries, Michael Doe, Peter Selby, and John Gladwin, the Bishop of Buckingham (the Rt Rev Alan Wilson)
      – General Synod members Giles Goddard, April Alexander, John Ward, the Revs Stephen Coles and Claire Herbert.
      – Iain Duncan Smith, Government, Work and Pensions Secretary, committed Catholic
      – Head of the Episcopal Church in Scotland the Most Rev David Chillingworth
      – Dr Barry Morgan, The Archbishop of Wales
      – Open Episcopal Church
      – The Bishop of Bucks
      – Very Rev Dr David Ison, Dean of St Paul’s Cathedral
      – US Conservative Judaism group, Rabbinical Assembly’s Committee on Jewish Law and Standards (CJLS)

      1. Great list. Thank you

    2. Spanner1960 25 Jun 2012, 3:50pm

      Nice to make a list, but sorry to piss on your fireworks, if I listed the religious people against same-sex marriage, it would run off the end…

      That said, as the Bishop said, that is the leaders and the church itself and its vocal supporters. I’m sure there are many religious people out there that would rather stand by us than them, but don’t want to get involved.

  10. Some times I am left shocked and surprised by the voices of reason and fairness in the church. And I recognize that it can’t have been easy to make these statements for people in these positions.

  11. Great to see someone with authority speaking for me.

  12. Another poorly worded headline.

    It should read, “Church’s Anti-Marriage Equality Views…”

    1. Spanner1960 25 Jun 2012, 3:53pm

      Oh tell me about it. “Illegal anti-marriage bill supporters not voting against views of equal rights opposers…”

      Eh???
      I really wish somebody would start talking English around here.

    2. Church’s Anti Marriage-Equality Views

      1. Spanner1960 25 Jun 2012, 5:58pm

        That still doesn’t make sense. Ditch the double negatives.

        1. e.g. Church’s hostile response to Equal Marriage Consultation may not reflect……..

  13. Shock horror – another clergyman has condemned the CoE response describing the church as homophobic – biggest shock though, the BBC are reporting it!!!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-18582361

    “A senior Lancashire churchman has claimed the Church of England is “institutionally homophobic”.

    The Vicar of Lancaster, the Rev Chris Newlands, also said there was a “glass ceiling” in the church for clerics who backed same-sex marriage.”

    1. Spanner1960 25 Jun 2012, 3:53pm

      Bloody Hell. Has Mark Thompson resigned?

      1. Makes you wonder, lol

  14. Jock S. Trap 25 Jun 2012, 5:00pm

    Very much welcomed and just shows that there are good in religions.

    Both Bishops speak sense and I do believe that most religious people are mislead by their leaders deliberately to court negatively against us but for what reason other than single minded bigotry?!

  15. On the one hand, encouraging that Christians who aren’t bigots are finally feeling confident enough to make their voices heard. On the other hand – irrelevant. Whether or not equality fits in with their brand of magic or not, doesn’t remove the need for equality.

  16. Thank you for standing up and being countered. Please do something positive and constructive, by embracing the 11th Commandment in its entirety with courage and fortitude to change the Church of England’s present wishywashy stance.

    1. 11th commandment !?!

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