Like the opinions of a ridiculous American cult actually matter? (and if you don’t think it ridiculous or a cult, look it up and educate yourself).
Of course, I could point out that the founder of the ridiculous LDS had dozens of wives and that they are hardly founded on the principles they espouse – But that assumes that they are not capable of acts of indescribable hubris and gross hypocrisy.
As for respecting them or their beliefs? How about “no”. Do they respect any one else’s? I don’t know. Let’s ask the families of holocaust victims they baptised in to their putrid church how they feel about respect.
I do not take advice from an organisation that has so many different views on what marriage is and seeks to oppose marriage law in a number of nations.
Would it help if we promised to wear magic underpants? Eh guys?
my underpants are magic!
when my husband sees me in them, *poof*, they disappear!
This from a cult which believes its members become gods after they die and that the star, Kolob, is the nearest heavenly body to the throne of God, thatd that one Kolob day is equal to one thousand years in current time and that the earth was created near Kolob 6000 years ago (six days in Kolob time). Utter madness. Maybe this should be brought to the attention of the consultation as well as reference to its former support of polygamy. Sick people in my view.
Moromonism is probably the stupidest religion in the world today.
And the competition is pretty stiff. I worked with some Mormons when I worked in Las Vegas. Lots of them work in the casino business. They carry an ID card which they have to keep with them at all times. If they die without it on their person they are barred from Heaven. Doesn’t get much sillier than that, does it?
Indeed, they even believe Jesus visited America, lol! To think the next president of the U.S. could be a mormon. I shudder to think.
Mormonism is probably the stupidest religion in the world today.
I think you’re close to being right on that one. However, I think the number one spot for stupid goes to Scientology, with Mormonism a close second! In at third is ‘all others’.
Well yes, they are all stupid, it’s pretty hard to pick amongst them now I think about it.
Only if you don’t consider Scientology to be a religion.
Agree Rich. If Scientology is a religion, it’s in a class on it’s own rivalled only by the Spaghetti Monster.
Be careful or the engrams will get you!
Another day another load of religious idiots thinking that they own the institution of marriage.
I would like to point out that because I am gay it does not make me a lesser person than those who claim to be religious.
I deserve the same marriage rights just as much as our straight friends and this will only be a matter of time before we have the same rights.
The religious bigots need to start getting used to that fact.
They say its one man, one woman for life.
Yet they used to endorse polygamy (and in some nations Mormons still do officially or in covert!)
They also support marriage post divorce is some circumstances – hardly, meets with the criteria of one couple for life!
They also claim to support LGBT equality – but yet seek to prevent LGBT people having civil rights in either a civil marriage or relgiious marriage.
They seek to oppose the religious freedoms of Christian and other religious groups who believe same sex couples should be able to marry.
Seems their arguments are incongrous
Dear Latter Day Saints,
Empirical evidence with cited and acceptable peer reviewed studies please?
What’s that? None to offer. Then shut the hell up please.
Absolutely, we need a mechanism for, and evidence of harm that equal marriage will cause, something these types have little concept of. Anyone can claim anything they like, but its pretty meaningless without proof.
but they DO have proof!
it’s written on golden tablets that they put in a hat to translate with the light from a magic stone.
urr, well, they lost them.
and… urrr… the angel Darth Vader said that God was very angry with them for losing the tablets.
And, ummm… that’s all.
If as he says marriage ““transcends” societies, governments and religions” then why is he trying to redefine it solely as a religious institution for men and women only and against the wishes of the government?
Does he not realise that the British people do not want a theocracy where religions dictate what laws should be?
Its bad enough that they interfere in the Lords process – but there is no way they can or should dictate – its a violation of the freedom of and freedom from religion if they seek to do so.
Negative implications…based on what? What evidence? What studies? Or just an ignorance-informed hunch?
It will take a hundred years or more for the LDS Church to move on equal rights for LGBT’s . I had my name withdrawn from the records of the church as I could not stand the stance of the leadership. Many members are far more warm …that is until they have leadership roles and then it’s follow the book to the letter and loose their ability to see logic, and are unable to think things through for themselves. If Christ himself returned to the President of the Church and said “All are equal in my eyes and love be it straight or gay, must and should prevail” it would still not be accepted because of the hardness in their hearts .
If I believed that an angel had revealed Divine Truth on a couple of plates which then disappeared, and that the Native Americans are in fact the Lost Tribes of Israel, and that Jesus of Nazareth is currently a resident of New Jersey, and many other things of similar stripe, then without doubt I would bow to these folks’ views on marriage.
I want to see the evidence for the “negative implications please. There are eleven countries allowing equal marriage. Surely these bigots could provide at least one official government report from any of those countries by now with detailed information to support their spurious claims. We’re waiting LDS?
They’re referring to the “Wrath of GOOOODDDDDD!!” or some other such nonsense. Rest assured, every flood, thunderstorm, fire, or bad event that happens in the UK in the next decade will be attributed to us and our marriages. This Cult is just getting in earlier than the other nutters.
Plague of locusts maybe?
Not with our weather I suspect.
Didnt happen in Denmark, Spain or Portugal either lol
Hey Cultists. How about you disappear back off to Utah with your veiled threats of divine retribution, and we’ll get on with life in the 21st century?
just like they have flattened Canada already = NOT!
This is up for the “Atlantic ocean not impressed by Mr Wilde” school of response!
Former LDS Church member and prominent critic Fanny Stenhouse wrote in 1875:
It would be quite impossible, with any regard to propriety, to relate all the horrible results of this disgraceful system…. Marriages have been contracted between the nearest of relatives; and old men tottering on the brink of the grave have been united to little girls scarcely in their teens; while unnatural alliances of every description, which in any other community would be regarded with disgust and abhorrence, are here entered into in the name of God.
I love the Latter-day Saints and find their religion absolutely fascinating. I also find fascinating the way they are unable to draw connections between the Government deciding who can marry now to when they themselves were persecuted for what were seen as unsavoury marriage practices.
It is bizarre to me that we cannot, on this issue, find common ground. The Latter-day Saints have become more mainstream than the mainstream!
Mormon …. one ‘m’ too many!!!!
Oh, yes, lets hear moral lessons from those who believe a guy looking at “gold tablets form god” in a hat with a magic stone is the epitome of wisdom.
And on top of all that spoke of great cities and civilisations in the Americas that no one – not even Mormon archaeologists – can a single minimum trace of. I think he was smoking something funny.
“Can find” that is
“The promotion and protection of marriage – the union of one man and one woman as husband and wife – is a matter of the common good and serves the wellbeing of the couple, of children, of civil society and humankind.”
I totally and emphatically agree.
But why does that mean same sexes cannot be added to that list to enforce and strengthen that common good?
I do not see the two as mutually exclusive.
Absolutely, just because marriage between a man and a woman can be a very good thing – does not mean it can not be a good thing between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
Marriage promotes commitment and fidelity – and many LGBT people want to be able to celebrate that – surely, that can only benefit the institution of marriage.
You said, “does not it mean it can not be a good thing between a man and a man or a woman and a woman”
Could it not be even better with “a man with 2 women?, or “a woman with
2 men? or how about 2 men and 2 women, or 2 women and 2 men?
Maybe the more the marrier and better?
There is no reason whatsoever to link same sex marriage and polygamy.
If you want to discuss polygamy and “redefining the definition of marriage” to include multiple partners then perhaps you need to either discuss it with the Mormons or an Imam at a Mosque. However, those campaigning for equal marriage for same sex couples are not the audience to try and raise your objective.
If you do want polygamy – campaign for it and persuade legislators that its desireable. Its not my bag, so I won’t be joining you in that campaign. I also think polygamy can be detrimental to equality (given experiences of the abuse in religiously supported polygamous scenarios).
You want polygamy – convince the legislators – but don’t use your “lack of equality” as an excuse to deny me mine.
Another straw man argument.
You will be coming up with “Why can’t I marry my goldfish?” next.
As Stu says, this is neither our argument or our fight. If polygamy is your thing, then go argue for it.
Maybe indeed. There is nothing in principle wrong with group commitments, any more than there is with the commitments of couples. Sorry to shoot your fox.
But thats a matter that those seeking polygamy should fight for and seek to justify for themselves – its not part of the same sex marriage campaign and nor should it be. Attempts to infilitrate the same sex campaign (some of it maliciously motivated) is wrong.
Hi Hank. Long time no see. The opposite sexes have married for centuries and they haven’t felt inclined to legalise polygamy in the UK so why should people of the same sex marrying mean that the majority (ie straight people) suddenly want to legalise polygamy?
You’ll say “because it’s changing marriage” – so why don’t you look up your US history and read about the repeal of the anti-miscegenation laws in the US. Did allowing people of different races and skin colours to marry lead to polygamy? No, you well know it didn’t. Neither did divorce, which also ‘changed marriage’.
Same sex marriage is NOTHING to do with polygamy. It’s about two loving, non-related adults choosing to marry.
For the “good of society” these people should stop wearing “magic underwear” and stop pretending they follow Christ.
It is now plane to see that the anti-gay Mormons are a major factor in stopping gay marriage and that they will do anything to stop LGBT people from sending in fake gay Mormons to spy on and disrupt the gay community all the way up to spending millions of dollars all the time now to stop gays and gay marriage. It is plain to see that the Christian religious such as them no longer are following their Bible but are on a vendetta to destroy LGBT people at all cost which is not only evil but shows that these anti-gay Mormons are in need of mental treatments.
Oh I think you big Mormons up much too much.
In terms of UK influence, Mormons have very little influence. They might like to think they have some – in reality not.
They might not be very influential, Stu, but their god is very, very powerful: watch this space (rolls around on floor laughing his rear off)
I think society would be well served by eliminating the cult of Mormonism. A Church that up until the 1970s taught that blacks were inferior and not allowed in the priesthood. They also believe that God lives on a planet and is a male over 6 ft. in height. When a man dies he gets his own planet but when a woman dies she gets to go serve her husband on that planet…lol. Need I say more about the sheer lunacy of this “church”.
Please do – it’s so entertaining!
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
However, it’s the thin end of the wedge; who decides whether a religion is a valid organisation or a dangerous bunch of fruit-loops? You? Me? The government? A national referendum? And what if the majority of people start thinking Cub Scouts, or Women’s Institutes, or some other outfit should also be “eliminated”?
We will end up on that slippery slope towards a fascist state before you can say “Kristallnacht.”
If anything will have a negative impact for the UK it will be a religious theocracy. It’s about time a national debate started over the disestablishment of a state cult. True democracies do not recognise one cult over any other and in this case, the Anglican cult needs to be booted from government altogether. No religious cleric should be permitted to interfere in secular government and none should be allowed to sit in House of Lords. Get rid of them once and for all. Make them fend for themselves, no priviliges, no public spending on them. Religious schools should be private and paid for by their respective denominations and the parents who choose to send their children to such places for their education. Religious denominations should be subject to taxation just like the rest of us, no exemptions, no exceptions.
Yes please, Robert. Anytime in the next week will be fine, though right now would be preferable.
(anyone who agrees, please add your weight to the National Secular Society – join up, donate, get involved)
I wholeheartedly support that Wingby. Every concerned gay man and woman should join the National Secular Society. I for one am.
If the LDS don’t want to marry same sex couples – that’s fine by me. It’s there church, there bigoted beliefs.
But the State has a wider responsibility to all people in its borders, it is for the State (and the State alone) to legislate what a legally recognised “marriage” is. What churches do – what unions they allow on their premises has been, and should remain, up to them. But the law of the land they exist in has to serve the wider community, not just them.
The Christian Bible(s) state that adulterers should be stoned to death – yet the State (the UK in this case) forbids it’s electorate taking members of its community out to the market place to kill them. The State calls it murder – and the vast majority of the people agree with them. Nor do we force rape victims to marry their attackers, Biblically the only punishment called for on the attacker is that “he” pay money to the family of the victim. Again, the State (with the support of the community it serves) takes people like
that out of the community and locks them away to prevent them from causing more harm.
The two examples here show that when it comes to morality the State is more than willing to ignore religious scriptures from faith groups to act in the best interest of the wider community. In fact, this is a good argument for allowing same-sex marriage: the fact the State is willing (time and time again, historically) to ignore the teachings of faith groups to legislate against so called religious morality.
This is why faith groups getting involved in this issue is problematic. They claim this is an issue of morality – but a morality that they themselves have changed to fit in with local State laws (many of which they have backed). If religious morality can be flexible in the two examples cited, why then cannot it be flexible in this case?
If religious groups can get past the idea adulterers must be killed and rape victims must marry their attackers – then they can get past THIS. It’s no more a
“leap of faith” than what they’ve chosen to change before.
But maybe that’s the real issue.
It is a choice not to accept this, a choice to stand against this – to spout doubtable morality in people’s faces, to use the same doubtable morality to influence politics and enshrine a faith based belief in law.
This incessant need they have to force their beliefs on people – to contain, and control (especially control), shows a total disregard and lack of respect for the democratic process. Rather than use their wealth to help, they’re willing to use it to hinder, to harm, to hold people back. They cite studies, make grandiose statements about the consequences of changing the law – without ever providing any peer-reviewed studies. Eleven countries in the world allow same-sex marriage, it is those countries we should look to – study, find out what (if anything) has fundamentally changed, and whether those changes have been socially negative – or whether they have been socially positive.
Those eleven countries are living examples of how same-sex marriage works. The so called “disastrous consequences” proclaimed by religious groups are nothing more than bigoted self-serving predictions based on rhetoric rather than fact, predictions based on a “flexible morality” that they claim cannot be changed because it is the word of “deity.”
let’s see… UK doesn’t have marriage equality. UK’s economy has taken a dramatic downturn. oh my!
Canada has marriage equality. Canada’s economy is one of the few that did not take such a hard hit during the economic downturn.
I mean, come on, if anyone is going to make ridiculous proclamations about how marriage equality will have a negative impact on society, why not go hog-wild?
let’s see, countries with marriage equality have lower crime rates? higher marriage, and lower divorce rates?
this could go on forever. you can make any sort of ridiculous prognostication.
The only truth is that marriage equality MUST happen. period.
Canada “Business and government leaders in Canada are working together to boost international trade and “getting it right,” driving economic growth in a manner that every country should emulate, a top UPS executive said today.” http://www.finchannel.com/Main_News/Business/111332_Canada_Using_Global_Trade_to_Grow_Economy,_Says_UPS_COO/
South Africa – “South Africa’s economy – the biggest economy in Africa – grew 2.7% on a seasonally-adjusted and annualised basis” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18249985
Denmark – “Denmark’s central bank on kept its forecasts for economic growth in 2012 to 2014 steady on Thursday and said low interest rates could fuel a faster-than-expected recovery in private consumption” http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/14/denmark-rates-idUSC7E8F302M20120614
In fact all states with equal marriage that are not in the Eurozone seem to be doing better than the general global economic climate
“Deep consequences” eh? These will of course be undefined and hinted at in a bogeyman sort of way because the Mormons and all the other fundies can’t think of a single deep consequence – except when they start making things up, of course, along the lines of tsunamis, floods, people’s heads’ exploding etc etc
Quite. It’s the Emperor Justinian without the style. Remember him? He said sodomy was a major cause of earthquakes and criminalised it, appealing to the scriptures. He then permitted divorce by mutual consent. Religious lunacy and hyprocrisy have always had the same look.
Yes, I remember Justinian. I thought of him when I read that story a couple of years ago about some C of E man claiming the floods in England were due to CPs or some such tripe :D
Seriously though, the start of that idea about the ‘sin of Sodom’ being homosexuality really annoys me. But not as much as the thought that people today STILL think that earthquakes, floods and whatnot are due to LGBT people gaining better treatment.
Poverty, disease, famine, war and suffering, but all some people care about is what other people do in bed. Sad.
“far‐reaching negative implications”
Why are we always left asking the question: “Such as what?”
Talking in vague implications is easy, give us details. Bet we could tear everyone of their arguments to shreds.
As someone who has an LDS mother, and a non religious father, this is going to cause alot of old wounds to reopen tonight over the dinner table… im so tired of this.
Possibly, but there are groups forming within LDS which support LGBT rights, and groups within the Catholics, and we know there are groups within Anglicans who support us. Opinions are changing not just outside religion but also within. You’re spot on with the vagueness of their arguments, and if you are face-to-face with someone then press them to explain that — online they just refuse to answer, change the subject, or disappear. Whenever I’ve asked “how does it affect you?” they seem to want to change the subject, or they suddenly disappear.
Good luck with dinner :)
Don’t mormons condone having multiple wives? The Law Society of England and Wales seem to disagree that legalising same sex marriage will have legal difficulties and an opt in must be adopted instead of a blanket ban on religious ceremonies.
The origins of the Mormon Cult are actually quite horrific on the marriage front. Women forced into polygamous marriages with men decades older than themselves, forced marriages arranged by the Church elders with even the parents of the bride or groom having no say in the matter, even murder of those who disobeyed the rulings. If you think they’re bad now read up on what they were.
And don’t bother with Wikipedia. The entries are pretty much whitewashed of the really sordid stuff.
Why on earth are these anti-Christ cults allowed to operate in the UK and who gives a hoot what they say. Go back to your own country and sort out the mess within your own institution as it can scarely be called a church.
The United Kingdom is home to the oldest continual place of Mormon Worship – it is even where Mitt (defender of one man and one woman marriage because of its antiquity, despite an ancestor of his having twelve wives) Romney’s ancestors converted…What an odd world we live in.
Reading daily all the negative responses against equal marriage has become so exasperating!
Negative implications…”What negative implications?” In the years since Canada has had equal marriage, there has been no deterioration in society… in reality society here has almost no determinable opinion or reaction to equal marriage.
Same sex marriages happen and people are oblivious at times to their existence, people have gay neighbors or meet friends who they don’t even know are married, genuinely accept/approve.
Life goes on! even our prime minister seems to have had an epiphany (votes might have influenced) Unlike the UK we did not have a consultation period which has invited all the vitriolic rhetoric,
From the outset it should have been a motion to vote on! provisions made for religious institutions to have discretion to opt in or out of ceremonies with no prejudices. If government wants to impose new taxes… the rarely hold “consultations” and it won’t take until 2015!
Points at the comic book religion invented in 1847 by a madman, and laughs uproariously. Just who the phuck do these idiots think they are that they can dictate to anyone how they should live their lives. This shyte gets more ridiculous by the minute never mind day. frankly I think it is insulting to our intelligence that Pink News feels that this stuff is relevant to our lives and publishes it. Just how ridiculous does it have to be before they bin this sort of rubbish?
The church of Utah should stay out of UK politics. Didn’t mormons use to believe in polygamy? So who the fuk are they to talk about marriage.
Well, there may be some Mormons in Holland, but we never received any warning of the dire consequences when same-sex marriage was discussed in Parliament. Of course, our local fundies moaned and gnashed their teeth, but that was it. We’re still doing fine, living below sea-level; sitting ducks for any wrathful god.
This from a cult who took until the 1970′s to declare that black people were actually human and had souls worthy of “salvation”. Prior to that date blacks were considered soul-less descendants of the dark angels that were thrown out of heaven with Lucifer, the brother of Jesus.
Mormonism is the Scientology of the 19th Century.
Don’t you love it when Mormons pontificate about marriage being between one man and one woman! Oh the hipocricy!
WTF, this from the “religion” who started the alternative lifestyle with polygamy. What a pile of crap.
Another irrelevant hate gang.