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Chief Rabbi’s opposition to marriage equality and civil partnerships ‘regrettable’

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  1. The crux of it is that (as the Rabbi rightly says):

    “if you really want to be inclusive – and “condemn all types of discrimination” – you need to recognise lesbian and gay people as full human beings with equal rights – human rights.”

    Seems some religious groups (not liberal Jews and others) seek only to protect and encourage civil and human rights either for themselves or people who fit their own world view. As a result those groups whose view on human rights is selective devalue certain segments of the population and demonstrate a failure to understand humanity, fairness or integrity and besmurch and discredit themselves and their organisations by their odious proclamations and behaviour.

    Others are much better eg liberal Jews – and they deserve praise, gratitude and credit

  2. New Aussie 20 Jun 2012, 1:20pm

    Er the liberal Jews might have been the first to introduce same sex liturgy in 2005, but the non-liturgical Quakers have had gay marriage services since 1994. Not that it matters when each body did it rather than that they did it at all.

  3. Correct me If I’m wrong but why do PN keep calling him chief rabbi when he only represents the area of London not the UK!?

    1. I guess whether it makes sense or not, that is the title he uses!

      1. He is the “Chief Rabbi of the UK and Commonwealth” but ONLY of all the Orthodox Jews across the whole of the UK and Commonwealth. [That is my understanding of his office]. He is not the Chief Rabbi of all the Jews in the UK! Reform and Liberal movements have Chief Executives who head up the Movements. I will try to find out more…..

    2. Not only that Robbie, but he is only the Chief Rabbi of the United Synagogue, which elected him to that position, which only represents the Modern Orthodox movement. Although, keep in mind that not all Modern Orthodox Jews live in London: there is a large community in Manchester too.
      Those of us in the Movement for Reform Judaism (as well as Liberal Judaism) do not recognise him as such.
      I am glad that PN do keep emphasising that not all religious groups are bigoted homophobes. I am incredibly proud to be a gay Reform Jew and that we are leading the way in living life according to a more enlightened interpretation of Jewish Law than Lord Sacks would allow us.

      1. There are large Orthodox Communities in Newcastle/Gateshead and in Glasgow. There is Jewish life North of Watford!!!

        1. I understand the largest Jewish University outside of Israel is in Gateshead

  4. Robert in S. Kensington 20 Jun 2012, 1:39pm

    How would the Chief Rabbi appreciate a vote against orthodox Judaism, disenfranchise it in fact? Has he learned nothing from his own history? Bigot, no other word for him. There is something intrinsically wrong with our political system when clerics are allowed to vote against our rights based on their religious beliefs and bigotry. Time that changed.

  5. Robert in S. Kensington 20 Jun 2012, 1:49pm

    Now why should a religious cleric’s religious beliefs have anything to do with a civil issue? What is it that they just don’t get? Why would Jewish bliblical law have any relevance to British secular laws is beyond me. Religious cults do NOT issue marriage licences, the state does. Untl that changes, they have NO business injecting or imposing religious laws or beliefs in our system of government or issuing spurious statements to our government that have absolutely no proof or foundation.

    1. Spanner1960 20 Jun 2012, 2:47pm

      That’s the whole point; there is no connection.
      However, all the religionists would have everybody believe they are being persecuted and being forced to carry out same-sex weddings.
      It started with the Catholics, then the Anglicans muscled in, and now we have Muslims, Jews, Mormons and every other tin-pot, crackpot cult on the planet all making out they are being targeted by radical extremist gay militia.

      They know they haven’t got a leg to stand on on this one, so they simply spread as much dirt and disinformation as they can in order to make us look like the villains of the piece. It is up to all LGBT people and their supporters to explain in simple terms to people how they will be affected (they won’t), and that this is simply a basic rubber-stamping of an existing law that will only apply to civil marriages.

      1. Not all those who are religious – eg the Liberal Jews (who in this very article are criticising the stance of the Cheif Rabbi).

        1. Spanner1960 20 Jun 2012, 5:15pm

          OK, there are a handful of oddballs and liberal religionists on our side, but they are few and far between. The great majority are fighting us tooth and claw. The bottom line is this is an entirely civil matter and has absolutely bugger-all to do with any of them.

      2. Robert in S. Kensington 20 Jun 2012, 4:47pm

        The entire consultation was deeply flawed. It should NOT have permitted any religious denominations to participate which do not support it. All it did was enable them to further foment homophobia, arguably some of the worst we’ve seen since the Section 28 debacle. The longer the government waits to introduce equal marriage, the more vociferous and enabled the bigots will become and they’re not backing down. They want to make sure a majority in the Tory party will not support it and it’s quite obvious.

        1. Spanner1960 20 Jun 2012, 5:18pm

          How very magnanimous of you.
          You are the sort of person that supports democracy as long as you are on the winning side.

          Let them throw everything they have, we are still going to win, and when we do we will have won fair and square, so they cannot complain they were ignored, and then we can all go back to our lives and forget all about it.

  6. People who say they speak to and for God are not God, they just make these claims which in most cases prove to be false. No so called religious leader can force you to do anything unless you agree with them. You have free will and rights to decide who you love and how you love.

  7. Regrettable? No, I think it’s good that we can see this man’s true colours. It’s instructive to see that the horrors gays and jews alike went through under the Third Reich have taught him nothing, making it abundantly clear how much notice jews and gays need to take of him.

  8. Why is this news? Spokesman for homophobic religion says something that is homophobic. He probably doesn’t approve of eating bacon butties and prawn cocktails either. So what? Anyone who wants to live by his particular set of superstitious rules is free to do so – don’t eat ham, don’t have the dressed crab, don’t marry someone of the same sex. Oh, and leave the rest of us alone by not trying to force your narrow minded, bigoted views on us.

  9. Does the pinhead of a chief rabbi think that everyone is a Jew? Why should we be bound by the practices of a semall religious sext? Is he also against us non-Jews eatiung bacon?

    1. Should all English men have compulsory circumcision? After all, it is part of Jewish law. Like to see him suggest that in the national papers.

  10. And by the way who voted the Chief Rabbi into a seat in the House of Lords? None of us. Why should he get a hand in determining how this legislation will run?

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