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Israeli politician: Army must not enlist gays

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  1. It is probably just as well that Uri Ariel is not the decision maker.

    The man is a small minded homophobe who should have no place in politics.

  2. MK A Michaeli comment
    that ‘most homosexuals are people who experienced sexual abuse at a very young age’, which leads them to ‘commit suicide at the age of 40. Is WRONG, I was never was abuse yet served in my countrys Armed Forces with Honour and Pride. so this silly old bigot should keep this fat mouth closed

    1. That There Other David 19 Jun 2012, 11:33am

      It really gives an insight into the way these peoples’ minds work doesn’t it? If he’s so able to accept such inaccurate nonsense about us as FACT, what other inaccurate nonsense does he base his voting patterns on? Is he actually proving he is incapable of effectively carrying out his duties to the people of Israel? And if so, why isn’t he being accused in exactly those terms?

    2. If a person in authority makes such sweeping statements, then he/she should be able to cite sources to back up these claims. Then these sources can be vetted for accuracy, transparency, and non-agendaism (is that a word??). Just as reputable scientists and researchers need to cite sources of any conclusions they may come up with in their work, so should politicians. This would allow these sources to be examined by others. Of course, I realize that this would shed unwanted light on sources whose veracity is tenuous at best and just plain bogus in many cases.
      And for the record, I’ve never been sexually abused, am well over 40 (and obviously still kickin’), and wouldn’t think of not allowing those who choose the Jewish faith to serve in the military.

  3. Yet anther religious hater. We need to stop giving these people air time, they are a total waste of human skin.

  4. I should imagine such sort of comments about not wanting Jews in the Hitler Youth were advanced by the Nationalist Social Party in Germany in the 1930`s.

    History repeating itself?

    1. That There Other David 19 Jun 2012, 11:43am

      It’s quite a common pattern for a group who have undergone such a terrible event as the Holocaust to become a bit warped afterwards. Another recent example is Apartheid South Africa. The British locked the Boers and their families up in concentration camps, resulting in 20-30,000 deaths, many of them women and children. As a result the Afrikaaners became obsessed with ensuring they couldn’t be dominated, and by the 1950s they started partitioning the country into white and black areas.

      As the generation that directly remembers the Holocaust dies out I suspect Israeli politics to become much less dominated by these ultra-hardcore types. We won’t change their opinions, but the future will be brighter.

  5. Jock S. Trap 19 Jun 2012, 11:28am

    “I wouldn’t enlist homosexuals into the army, because some things interfere in the military’s ability to fight.’ ”

    Er How and Why? do these people not learn from other countries? And why should we fight along side those that have this discriminating belief?

    “‘most homosexuals are people who experienced sexual abuse at a very young age’, which leads them to ‘commit suicide at the age of 40.’ ”

    Er… seriously? Clearly this man knows nothing and is uneduated but I will add this… as wrong as you are even if your comment was true at least all can see How you treat victims of child abuse!

    Disgusting man!

  6. Another homophobic tit trying to cover up the past homosexual activities of his youth no doubt.

  7. “Member of Knesset Uri Ariel from the right-wing National Union party”

    “‘If I were the decision maker…”

    Ok. Can safely be ignored then.

    More likely an attention-seeking old homophobe. There are some around, particularly on the Telegraph comments section, and some on the Guardian CIF. The majority recognise these people for what they are. Not only that, even when they speak softly and claim to be caring Christians, who happen to be Bishops, in the Church of England, the public still see right through them.

    We really should spend as little time as possible worrying about wingnuts and enjoy life. :)

  8. The irony of a Jewish person being right wing and adopting policies of a certain German government circa 1933 is just disgusting and really tragic.

    Shame on him.

  9. de Villiers 19 Jun 2012, 12:41pm

    This is a very nasty comment and message to those who are gay and who are in the army, putting their lives at risk for their state. It is also an attack on those families who may have lost gay sons or daughters who were killed in their service.

    1. GulliverUK 19 Jun 2012, 1:18pm

      On the one hand we should simply ignore vile, stupid, homophobes – because otherwise we’ll spend all our lives worrying about what others thing, and that’s a waste of time we could be doing fun things.

      On the other hand it’s a terrible message for younger people, whose skin is still growing, and not always thick enough, and for that reason it’s good that the majority see the harm people like him do, and stomp on these people from a great height. What must young gay people have thought with the horrible statements by various bishops and the vile comments on various comment pages, over same-sex marriage.

      Now is the time to do two things to help younger gay people;
      1. Demand LGBT history is taught in schools to tackle bullying (various trials have been a great success).
      2. Criminalise / outlaw reparative therapy. I don’t believe it is widely practised at all in this country, but outlawing it will send a powerful message that we’re made the way nature intended and just fine.

  10. Another military person putting his trust in guidebooks written centuries or millennia ago – in this respect he is no better than Islamic nutjob equivalents. Maybe he speaks to Yahweh too.

    Honestly, sometimes one just despairs.

  11. Another thick-witted t0sspot with his wits addled by the primitive superstitious fallacious drivel of bronze age goat herders who wanted a “divine” excuse to massacre their neighbouring tribes.

    I am so tired of reporting on every word of moronic putrid drivel that spills from their vacuous bloody brains.

  12. Must be one of those cases of “out of sight, out of mind”, i.e. if he saw a gay man in front of him during a battle, he’d lose his head over him… that’d make sense…

  13. One, thing I agree with him on; he says
    “some things interfere in the military’s ability to fight”

    I agree.

    Prejudice, bullying, discrimination, demotivation and arrogance.

    All things he seems keen to endorse

  14. Clearly he has not heard of the experiences of many other nations which have reviewed their involvement of LGBT people in the military which demonstrate the lies, fallacy and futility of his argument.

    Canada, for example. A study of gays and lesbians in the Canadian military has found that after Canada’s 1992 decision to allow homosexuals to serve openly in its armed forces, military performance did not decline.

    The study is the most comprehensive academic study by US researchers of homosexuality in a foreign military ever compiled and reflects an exhaustive inventory of relevant data and research. Its title is “Effects of the 1992 Lifting of Restrictions on Gay and Lesbian Service in the Canadian Forces; Appraising the Evidence”.
    Lifting of restrictions on gay and lesbian service in the Canadian Forces has not led to any change in military performance, unit cohesion, or discipline.
    Self-identified gay, lesbian, and transsexual members of the Canadian Forces contacted for the

    1. study describe good working relationships with peers.
      The number of military women who experienced sexual harassment dropped 46% after the ban was lifted. While there were several reasons why harassment declined, one factor was that after the ban was lifted women were free to report assaults without fear that they would be accused of being a lesbian.
      Before Canada lifted its gay ban, a 1985 survey of 6,500 male soldiers found that 62% said that they would refuse to share showers, undress or sleep in the same room as a gay soldier. After the ban was lifted, follow-up studies found no increase in disciplinary, performance, recruitment, sexual misconduct, or resignation problems.
      None of the 905 assault cases in the Canadian Forces from November, 1992 (when the ban was lifted) until August, 1995 involved gay bashing or could be attributed to the sexual orientation of one of the parties.

      Why should Israel experience something different to Canada in engaging with LGBT military personnel

  15. What is this man talking about?

    Israel Defense Forces policies allow gay men and lesbians to serve openly and without discrimination or harassment due to actual or perceived sexual orientation. This was put into effect in 1993 after an IDF reserves officer testified before the Knesset claiming that his rank had been revoked, and that he had been barred from researching sensitive topics in military intelligence, solely because of his sexual identity.

    Homosexuals serve openly in the military, including special units. According to a University of California, Santa Barbara study, a brigadier general stated that Israelis show a “great tolerance” for gay soldiers. Consul David Saranga at the Israeli Consulate in New York, who was interviewed by the St. Petersburg Times, said, “It’s a non-issue. You can be a very good officer, a creative one, a brave one, and be gay at the same time.”

    In a comprehensive review of interviews with all known experts on homosexuality in the IDF in 2004,

    1. researchers were not able to find any data suggesting that Israel’s decision to lift its gay ban undermined operational effectiveness, combat readiness, unit cohesion or morale. In this security-conscious country where the military is considered to be essential to the continued existence of the nation, the decision to include sexual minorities has not harmed IDF effectiveness. In addition, while no official statistics are available for harassment rates of sexual minorities in the IDF, scholars, military officials and representatives of gay organizations alike assert that vicious harassment is rare.

      http://www.palmcenter.org/node/554
      (Homosexuality and the Israeli Defence Force)

      “In our comprehensive search for published evidence and our interviews with all known experts on homosexuality in the IDF, we were not able to find any data suggesting that Israel’s decision to lift its gay ban undermined operational effectiveness, combat readiness, unit cohesion or morale. In this security-

    2. conscious country where the military is considered to be essential to the continued existence of the nation, the decision to include sexual minorities has not harmed IDF effectiveness.”

  16. This is good. I also think the Israeli Army should stop recruiting jews too. It just makes good 14th Century sense.

    1. Maybe Israel is in such a strong position it doesn’t need thousands of highly trained military personnel. Or maybe to make up for all the LGBT people whom he’d kick out of the armed services, he’d be prepared to conscript all the thousands of right-wing, fundamentalist Jews who are legally exempt from military service for religious reasons. But first make a pact with the Palestinians – no conflict on Saturdays. They’re not much use any day of the week, but on Saturdays they won’t lift a finger.

  17. I would like to hope and believe that within Israel the non-gay community is closing ranks FIRMLY against this disgusting attitude.

    Ariel forgot to mention, by the way, that Bibi’s own Right-Wing Likud Party now has a very active and respectable Gay Forum, (as the Parties to the left of it have long since had), – hopefully putting more openly Gay members into the Knesset from that side of the political spectrum too.

    The recent Tel-Aviv Pride was LED by Religious youth belonging to our Community – another point to negate Ariel’s bigotry and to put his twaddle into proportion.

    It will be no surprise to learn however that he is also an extremist on West Bank Settlement issues and that – alas – gives his bigotry a standing way beyond its true weight.

    AT LEAST LET US SHOW THAT GOOD MEN WILL NO LONGER STAND BY AND DO NOTHING BUT CONTINUE TO CHALLENGE AND CONDEMN HIM AND THOSE WHO THINK LIKE HIM..

  18. Errol Semple 19 Jun 2012, 4:28pm

    Religion is HATE.

  19. Pathetic. This time it’s coming from the Jewish cult. Yet another reason to be opposed to Israel. But I guess it’s better than Islam run Palestine :/ Still, there’s no reason to not allow gay/bi people to serve

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