My point is they “object” – so let them object and go and sulk somewhere and stay in the dark ages. They’re entitled to an opinion though.
Northern Ireland has stuck itself in the dark ages because of their obsession with “the troubles”.
Its the most backward place in western europe.
America comes a close second.
Yeah, that’s right. America’s the second most backward place in western Europe. :-)
……Really? Tucked in somewhere between Italy and France is this “America” you blather about then? More idiocy from Sevrin.
Not really surprising given the history of NI. If people can hate someone of a different religion so much that they wish to kill them, then it follows they are unevolved enough to hate anyone who is different. I expect ginger haired children are bullied way beyond the school yard where it normally stops in the rest of the country.
Well given that there is a preponderance of Red haired people in Ireland, Gingerism isn’t a problem here and it’s a form of bullying that rarely occours.
The conflict in Ireland wasn’t religious despite the fact that the two sides were of opposing faiths. It was coincidental to the real cause of the 800 year old conflict which was political and only arose when the British James the 1st “planted” thousands of Presbyterian protestants from the slums of British and Scottish cities starting in 1609 and gave them the land that had belonged to the indigenous Irish since the Ice Age….the problem was exacerbated by the British in a “Divide and Conquer policy..
Sad that N Ireland lags so far behind Ireland, the UK and other nations who acknowledge (and to some extent try to engage appropriately and effectively with) issues of equality, fairness and integrity for all regardless of orientation, race, age, disability, gender, religion etc.
Shame on the culture of the N Irish that many appear to have irrational attitudes to an entire group of people based on how they were born.
I know many N Irish people do not share these views but the study is of concern.
Who the hell do they think they are? “Four in ten would object to a close relative forming a (gay) relationship”
Frankly-its none of their business!
I wouldn`t dream of making moral judgements on any of my family`s relationships.
If you were a terrorist thug or a bomb maker they probably wouldn’t mind. Lets have a united Ireland.
Northern Ireland, lovely country, backward people!
Although, let’s not tar all people from N.I with the same brush!
Certainly not all people in N Ireland would agree – but the extent of agreement is appalling and disturbing.
There needs to be work done to address what appears to be culturally ingrained ignorance and homophobia
What exactly is the purpose of this study ? Is it to measure the level of intolerance that remains in NI ?
Do they do similar studies asking questions about tolerance to ethnic minorities, or Jewish people etc ?
I think you’ll find they do, considering the high level of attacks against Chinese and other minorities over the past few years in Northern Ireland.
Why are you against this study?
Bigotry in N. Ireland? This story is more dog bites man, than man bites dog.
Once again, the problem seems to be different time zones. NI is 20 years behind the rest of Western Europe, and going backwards.
Different time zones? O.o It’s in the same time zone as most of western europe, including Spain where they allow gay marriage.
The problem that has arisen here in Northern Ireland is that the minority have come to realise that as the Troubles came to an end it has become less acceptable to attack people of a different religion. What has happened is that this minority then found a group they see as more acceptable to attack. Be they people of a different race or sexual orientation. The major problem is that discrimination is still seen as a Protestant or Catholic thing and not with regards to any other group. The Assembly here need to step up stop this before it becomes the norm. Better education would be a start. Instead they are so entrenched in blaming each other for everything. Religion is a big part of our society and this too as we have seen plays a big part in peoples attitudes.
….you are wrong about the minority. it is the majority or unionist community who are the transgressors in this study altho it doesn’t say so. The attacks on minorities of all persuasion have been going on in the north of Ireland for 90 years and has as you say gotten worse since the Peace Initiative. But it has been proven by the Police and courts that the vast majority of it comes from the Unionist tradition. The attacks on Chinese in Larne a wholly Unionist enclave, East Belfast, Portadown, and so on in the mainly Unionist areas. This is not to say there is not discrimination in Nationalist areas, Derry for instance where there were a few attacks on Gay people a few years ago but that has subsided as those responsible are now in prison. The north of Ireland suffers greatly from the born again bible thumper types, who are full cousins of those in the more backward States in the US such as Mississippi, Alabama W Virginia, N Carolina and so on……
….that said I as a gay man have friends (straight) from both traditions and have never witnessed discrimination toward me but some of those same friends have on occasion made me aware of a few who have made the usual “queer” remarks and strangely most of those are in relation to a particular group who are all friends with each other and i suspect one who i know to be the ring leader has swayed the opinion of his friend group. My experience of growing up in the Nationalist area I did, was that Nationalists in general were less judgmental and the several out or known Gay men in my area were all very popular and their houses were the focal or celidh houses and were full most nights during the long winter nites for card games or dancing. These studies can be very misleading because those that carry out the study are not aware of the segregation of the two communities in the north. Even the shopping areas of cities are segregated between the two with unionists shopping in unionist areas .
…but an outsider would have no way of knowing this.
Finally Sinn Feinn have pledged greater GLB rights as have some SDLP members although not all as the SDLP is a conservative party on the whole while Sinn Fein would be a liberal left party. Any rights and law changes already enjoyed in the north have been driven by the nationalist parties with unionist parties being greatly in opposition. Paisley and Save Ulster from Sodomy for instance…..
Religion would be the biggest problem in Unionist areas, as it is with their Ulster Scots cousins in the US where these people tended to emigrate to. Studies like this in the north of Ireland would need to be of a greater demographic than this one of just over a thousand people and would be fraught with errors because of the segregation…….I was disappointed the Tories didn’t include Ulster in the proposed Equality Laws but perhaps this study will change that. I Hope!
…..once again i get marked down by some bigoted idiot who has nothing to say in rebuttal. I, after all, live here and don’t need a study to tell me what is going on in somewhere as small as the wee north as we call it.
By the way, the letters to local papers here from tourists about the friendliness of the Six Counties are numerous and gushing, so something is amiss somewhere……
I am a Unionist. I live in a Unionist area and know many Gay people in my Area. In fact there is a Gay couple living across the street from me who are never bothered. There are several other gay and lesbian couples where I live who are left alone. To tar all Unionists with the same brush shows the mentality of Catholics/Nationalists here. My post never blamed one side or the other yet you have brought it up. I am aware of the knuckle dragging areas where attacks on ethnic minorities have occured but again this has never happenend where I live. And to be clear this also happens in Nationalist areas – those 2 women off the Grosvenor Road not that long agao where theie house was shot at comes to mind as an example. Please do not turn this into a political point scoring exercise. There is enough of that on other sites.
I don’t intend to, but you are as aware as I am of the attacks on immigrants here and always in unionist areas. You will remember the group from I think Portugal who had to leave. You will note that I did say in my possibly over long comment that i did say it wasn’t confined to unionist areas altho there tends to be a preponderance in that direction. There are still para military wall paintings in Unionist areas which are far from conciliatory as you know. I was unaware of the attacks on the two women but I will look it up. However you must concede that the free ps have had a rather detrimental affect on the north over the years and you will remember Save Ulster from Sodomy.
I wasn’t intending to score points political or otherwise but merely repeating what is common knowledge hereabouts….
You did say however; “What has happened is that this minority then found a group they see as more acceptable to attack. Be they people of a different race or sexual orientation.” Is that not an attack on the Irish or catholics as they are the minority…… ?? …. it was the reason for my robust rebuttal.
I am not a troll and would thank you kindly to not call me one. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Paisley’s religious cult known as ‘The Free Presbyterian Church’. It is vile and the rhetoric they spout is not a reflection of all Unionists. I live in North Belfast in a predominatly Loyalist area but that is not a reflection of who I am. I do have a fear of being ‘out’ in the community because although people generally do be left to themselves and the out Gay men across from me are never bothered I have seen the other side of coin so to speak. To reiterate, just because a person does not agree with you does not mean they are a troll.
….Oh I forgot to say, while I am Irish, I do not belong to any of the vile Abrahamic cults which have plagued our country for so long, altho they are now thankfully on their way out….
It appears likely that Michael was a spit and run troll….sheesh1
I was under the impression NI was supposed to be under British rule and subject to the laws of the UK. That gay couples are prohibited from adopting children should be a matter for the equalities minister and the necessary action taken to rectify it. Let’s face it, it’s religion at the root of all the prejudice and discrimination in NI. It will never go away as long as it’s allowed to influence politics. Its appalling that there is so much regression taking place and the attitudes of people not having changed that much over the years.
The north of Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland unfortunately, but as of the Belfast Agreement we now have devolved government in all things except Taxes. However I think it was as a sop to the Unionists that the Marriage Equality act will be in England and Wales only. Religion is a problem wherever it raises it’s ugly head and the north of Ireland is no different to England in that regard. So don’t point a finger at someone else while there are holes in your own shoes.
Ireland, north or south, is no more regressed in that regard than anywhere else.
I am so embarrassed by this,…..and it doesn’t help to come in here to find myself and other’s who live here being referred to as ‘backward’ ‘unevolved’ as well as ‘the most backward place in western Europe’ (could we have proof of that please??) Norther Ireland, like many other places has had its problems in the PAST (and Britain played its part in that) but we are vibrant and forward moving countrywith Belfast listed in the top 10 cities to visit in 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15872225 yes I admit that the survey was alarming but don’t go judging us on one survey of 1000 people. Some support (thanks Stu) would be appreciated. I am NOT backward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No problems, Shaney
Clealry the poll demonstrates some people in N Ireland have “backward” views. So do some people in other parts of the UK and elsewhere. Granted, it appears the prevalence is higher in N Ireland than some of those other places and that is a concern, and an issue that needs to be cohesively addressed. That does not mean the people of N Ireland, or indeed N Ireland per se is “backward”. It means N Ireland has a difficult challenge to address and those in N Ireland who seek a fairer, equal and honest future may well seek support outwith N Ireland to challenge the ingrained culture of homophobia in some people.
I have to say, on the couple of occasions I have been in N Ireland I have not experienced homophobia. I know people who have. I believe this can be overcome – not quite sure what the starting point is though.
…”Clealry the poll demonstrates some people in N Ireland have “backward” views….” .. … …. similar to the backward views of people in the rest of the UK and indeed the rest of the world.
The British seem to suffer greatly from memory loss when it comes to anything remotely involving the Irish, who built most of Britain’s infrastructure I must say…..and suffered great discrimination and abuse while doing so. as perusal of back copies of Punch will attest to……
Your point reinforces the words in my own comment which you reply to:
“So do some people in other parts of the UK and elsewhere”
Shaney, I can relate to your trepidation. I am from Mississippi, the most backwards state in the USA. It bothers me when people speak of Mississippians as “backwards”, “uneducated”, “hicks”, etc. but it bothers me even more that the state and far too many of her people are so willing and so proud to live up to all of the negative stereotypes. I would encourage you to face facts and do the same. Speak up on behalf of those who aren’t backwards without denying the pervasive relative backwardness of the majority. It’s pretty clear that Northern Ireland is the Mississippi of the UK.
Hayden… you clearly have no idea what you are talking about if you compare the north of Ireland to Mississippi. Churchmen and politicians from all over England and Wales have in the last year demonstrated that those two places are just as backward as anywhere. Religion is the problem and always will be until it is forcibly abolished…..
Yeah Paddyswurds, what do you think the problem is in Mississippi?
And just because there is still homophobia in England and Wales and Massachusetts and California doesn’t mean that Northern Ireland and Mississippi aren’t backwards in comparison.
Being Mississippian doesn’t make me blind to this fact. Something clearly is interfering with your vision on the issue.
My comment stands.
By the way, this doesn’t mean that the people of Mississippi and Northern Ireland aren’t loving and kind or that the places aren’t beautiful. It just means that they have more than their fair share of ignorance, fear and bigotry.
Oh, and one more thing, I would caution you using the BBC as a reliable guide to non-backwards places to visit. Just recently the BBC rated UGANDA as their top pick of international places to visit. I don’t think I need to say more.
Hayden, if you read the article you would know that it was the National Geographic who put the list together, the BBC just reported it.
continued from pervious post.
The problem is we have the DUP as the largest party who may as well align themselves with the BNP in some cases. They all belong to the church there former leader founded and they have staunch supporters who believe anything the church spews.
We have Peter Robinson as first minister who’s wife called homosexuality and “abomination”.
The apparent increase in hostility and intolerance in a sense is inevitable and maybe should not be a cause of long-term worry. My impression is that NI was frozen in a time-warp by the Troubles for a generation. The opening up of its society and culture to sexual and other differences previously feared or unmentionable has happened very fast and this provokes more overtly negative reactions among those disturbed by rapid changes in their once-familiar world. If this is greeted with constant, patient challenge – and, even more importantly, greater daily familiarity with the objects of fear and hostility – these attitudes subside, and often over a relatively short time. As we have already found outside Ulster, attitudes are usually much more accepting and respectful among younger people who have grown up familiar with things considered alien and threatening by their parents and grandparents.
Who ever would have thought that Catholic Ireland would leave Northern Ireland so far behind in the dust when it comes to moving into the 21st Century?
Just shows what happens when a people cast off the shackles of organized religion.
Oddly enough it is often the ‘Catholic countries’ which outstrip the predominently Protestant ones … look also at Spain and Portugal, and then look at England and yesterday’s ridiculous outburst from the CofE .
To some of you who have made comments …. Be careful who and how you condemn – I wonder how many areas of similar population [1.7 million] in England Scotland and Wales would come out any better if the same poll was conducted? When people are simply asked if they would like an LGBT neighbour they are likely to say No – because, if for no other reason they are dealing with the unknown. Ask them about their neighbour [who they already know, however slightly] who is LGBT and their response is often very different. Polls like this need to be treated with a great deal of caution – the synopsis rarely tells the full story!
Very fair comment, ASAndy
There will undoubtedly be pockets geographically within other parts of the UK (including some urban areas – those wicked metropolitan elte again! ;-)) where there is a strong sense of bigotry and animosity towards people due to orientation. Equally there are pockets of areas, and individuals in N Ireland who strive for a fairer, safer and more equal future for all people in N Ireland and beyond.
What the hell did they expect?
‘Do You Mean Me?’, published today by the Equality Commission, found that one in three people thought they had been unfairly treated or harassed for belonging to a particular group, with people over 70, gay people and disabled people being groups perceived to be at most risk of discrimination.
People in that age group are set in their ways and brought up during a time when being gay was as acceptable as having herpes. (Sorry, I’m being snarky.)
I’m a child of the 50’s raised when being gay wasn’t cool or accepted and was considered a psychiatric disorder.
Also, NI is so religious that almost everyone had their own form of prejudice.
As for the USA being backwards, we’re getting better. The number of states allowing gay unions is slowly increasing.
Noiw that they’ve ceased killing each other (for the time being), they need another hate object to satisfy their intrinsic bestiality, and gays are as easy a target as anyone car-bombed or shot in the back.
That remark is beneath contempt. It is judgemental and racist.
Just where do you get the right to judge me and the others who le here as having an ‘intrinsic bestiality’ to hate another person?? Have you lived here? In EVERY city and EVERY Country there has always been and always will be, people who hate and hurt. Your remark was designed to hurt….you hit your target, satisfied now??
I presume you are aware that it was Britain who with their Plantation of Ulster and their Divide and Conquer policy that was the cause of 99.999% of the conflict in Ireland for the last 800 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TkChoQU2VU&feature=related how many world leaders have to apologise to their citizens for the murderous actions of the Army?
Paddyswurds there you go again. I somewhat agree that Britain was the cause of much of the conflict but to say 99.999% shows again the mentality of Nationaists/Republicans here. Britain did not car bomb innocent men, women and children and then expect 1 million Protestants the IRA tried to ethnically cleanse to support their call for a United Ireland. Violent Irish Republicanism played a huge part in the loss of life through the Troubles. There is also an undertone of still blaming Protestants in Northern Ireland for Britains policies 800 years ago. I have never once took anything from anybody and live and let live is my moto but apparently my only crime is being born a Protestant in Northern Ireland. Therefore to most Catholics I am the enemy and have no right to live here.
Apparently someone does not agree and has marked me down. As i suspected really.
There clearly is fault on both sides of the Irish situation – historically and currently.
As with most international issues eg South Africa, Nicaragua, Israel etc etc
Even if fault is predominantly on one side – there is (almost) always fault on the other -and thats why part of the best solution is almost always reconciliation.
Not sure what the measure is that is necessary to bring cultural change in N ireland on issues of orientation etc
ok. enough of the racist remarks.!!!!
I’ve just recently finished my masters degree in NI and can’t wait to leave this country next year. It’s precisely the backwards nature of our political system, stuck in the dark ages, that makes me question why I should donate my skills to a country where I’m not valued as an individual.
….but where you were glad to avail of the free education. Piss off then, we won’t miss you and we have great sympathy for whatever unfortunate country you pitch up in.
I was in the public gallery of the H of Commons when Paisley kicked off one time- VERY drunk (Betty Boothroyd kept shouting “the Honorable Gentleman is tired and emotional” ie pissed) and he mouthed off about the graphic details of sodomy, with which he was obsessed. Does anyone else remember when Private Eye mag named him as a predatory paedophile? He never sued.
Journalist Chris Moore wrote The Kincora Scandal an investigation into the Kincora Children’s Home in Belfast in the UK, where housemaster William McGrath, and others, abused children.
William McGrath, a Protestant loyalist and member of Ian Paisley’s Free Presbyterian Church, reportedly worked for the UK spy service MI5. Paisley gt away with everything cos of this.
Paisley Pissed?…I don’t think so; he always called alcohol the Devils Buttermilk…No that was just the real Paisley in all his bigoted glory.
Reportedly, the Kincora Children’s Home, in Belfast in the UK, was used as a boy brothel.
Kincora’s clientele included top politicians judges and other public figures including allegedly Paisley so MI5… used it as a blackmailers lever.” (Michael stone, MI5 and Kincora – Irish Nationalism)
McGrath was linked to right-wing protestant paramilitaries in Northern Ireland (as was Anders Breivik, reportedly).
Reportedly, the protestant paramilitaries “have long had links with Zionist gangsters and have received Israeli weapons.
“In at least one incident weapons were exchanged for intelligence material on British missile systems, and loyalists rely on Israeli-’Russian’ mafiosi for supplies of ecstasy pills.
“Loyalists have also engaged in the smuggling of non-Whites into Eire in alliance with the ‘Russian’ mafia.” (Michael stone, MI5 and Kincora – Irish Nationalism)
“(Michael stone, MI5 and Kincora – Irish Nationalism)” Can you explain what this means.Since when was Irish Nationalism involved with Srone, MI5 or Kincora, aProtestant Boys home????
made a mess of that sooo….
“(Michael stone, MI5 and Kincora – Irish Nationalism)”
Can you explain what this means. Since when was Irish Nationalism involved with Stone, MI5 or Kincora, a Protestant Boys home????
Northern Ireland – always the last cab off the rank.
Northern Ireland as a political entity wouldn’t exist at all only for the British gerrymandering in 1922. Back then, when it was proposed partitioning Ireland it was decided to hold a country wide vote on the matter and partition failed by a huge margin …80% opposed. However the British decided to declare the vote Null and Void and partitioned anyway, but not for the sake of the Unionists but in a move to ensure that they, the British, would retain control the North Sea passage around the north of Ireland and to the use of the north as a convenient airbase point, as this control had been seen to be very important in the recent WW1. The fact that a small minority of people in Ireland at the time wanted to remain British was conveniently exploited and we have the consequences to this day…….. …. ..
what do yu expect from a place that feeds on hatred and dines on war?
what do yu expect from a place that feeds on hatred and dines on war? exactly what yu are getting. good place to stay away from. ill take my tourist dollars elsewhere.