More fallacious manipulated bullsh!t by the putrid cult of Rome.
Yet more anti-gay anti-equality propaganda from Catholic Vices
I don’t really get what their point is. Very rarely will there ever be 100% agreement on any issue. Hell even some straight men and women disagree with marriage for various reasons so I don’t see how a percentage of LGBT people who disagree with marriage can be breaking news.
Especially when only a minority of the sample were actually gay. Less than 9% of the sample were lesbians. See the Guardian.
Sorry, that should say 11%.
Even then, allowing for error margin, those that reject limiting marriage to male/female, could be 96% on their figures (77%+19%):
“The Catholic Voice poll, conducted by professional pollster ComRes, had a sample of 541. As Catholic Voice themselves note, this gives it a larger margin of error – in this case, a little under 4.5%. This can make quite a difference. If a report shows 40% of people agree with a statement, and 30% disagree, this seems to be a ten-point gap. With a 4.5% margin of error, this gap can actually be anything from 1% to 19%.”
What is the significance of this? Many straight people do not get married, even less have religious weddings and some are openly hostile to the idea of marriage. But, and this is a big but, they have the choice.
The sound of a pretty empty barrel being scraped by Catholic Voice
Well seeing as it’s Catholic Voices and ComRes – I am sure the polling sample of 541 people is made up of LGBT people at some dodgy ‘conversion therapy’ group.
The catholic cult lies as easily as most people breathe – the catholic cult pretends that Ratzinger was not a proper member of Hitler Youth after all.
Apart from the fact that this has precisely nothing to do with the article, have you ever heard of a post hoc flaw?
Sorry, that comment was meant for Ken
I’ve heard of raping children and covering it up. Is that what you mean?
……the very premise under which religion exists, namely that a “god” exists, is a lie, so one always expects that anything coming from religion is false and will be self serving……
Barrack Obama repeals Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and suicides in the American military is now at a ten year high while sexual assaults has sharply increased.
Until the militant gay lobby completely destroys society, then will our political correct politicians take heed!
Can you please point me to where in that report it even mentions DADT, never mind links it to being a possible reason for the increases it relates to? I don’t think you can can you? But stuff it, let’s make a wildly innaccuarte statement just to serve your own personal bigotry right? Jacka$$
Have you stopped beating your wife Ken?
TROLL ALERT……Please don’t feed the TROLL
“Until the militant gay lobby completely destroys society”
I’ll settle for just beating idiots like you back…..
…..which I’m delighted to say is happening.
What the hell does this have to do with the article? Do us a favor and make sure your brain is engaged before you put your fingers in gear on the keyboard.
The Daily Vatigraph are loving this:
PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLL CALLING ITSELF KEN
Like you are doing?
Sorry but this is a fabricated lie!!
That the majority of LGBT people support the right of gay people to marry?
Its just another of those Catholic Voices “COMRES” pretend polls.
Given their previous form this is clearly another biased load of guff.
Erm – this is good news!
The other comments seem to have missed the fact that it shows the majority of the gay community want equal marriage.
Bang goes the argument that “it’s not wanted..even by gays” as peddled by C4M and that Ben MP oddity.
Damaging and totally irresponsible. Ask a Catholic a question on Marriage and you’ll get the answer they crave. They clearly haven’t go accurate figures because they will not and cannot be bother to actually ask our community without discriminating about who they ask.
Shameful but not surprising.
I bet the so called gay voters in this poll were fake, straights pretending to be gay to make it appear that half of us aren’t for equal marriage. The poll is a total fraud. How are these polls verified anyway? What is the methodology? It’s so corrupt.
This is just another desperate attempt to derail equal marriage as the consultation nears completion this coming week, nothing more.
But the majority want equal marriage, it’s only the minority 25% who are happy with CPs.
I’ve met a few gay couples who don’t understand the desire for equal marriage, for a few reasons. I’d argue that they haven’t engaged with the debate enough, as it’s clear that equal marriage is what’s right, but they ARE out there.
How, Robert – see plenty of comments suggesting this, but the fact is a vast majority support equal marriage in this poll.
How would that be able to be fairly or legitimately used to derrail equal marriage?
What I mean is that this is just a last desperate attempt on their part, thinking that it could derail equal marriage which we all know will fail. There are only six days left before the consultation ends, so this comes as no surprise.
Am I missing something here? How can the Catholics claim that there is no support for equal marriage in the gay community when the majority (almost 3/4) are in favour of it????
I think these Catholics are just plain stupid, they don’t even know how to read Statistics!
Thats my view on this Carl.
This poll shows there is massive support for equal marriage!
I bet if you did a similar poll for straight people you would get similar numbers. There are many straight couples who don’t want to get married and many who think concept of marriage is outdated.
This is does not mean that that the opinion of the rest is not valid.
Be interesting to see how the Telegraph, Mail, CI and C4M “interpret” these results.
Be interesting to see the actual questions – given the deliberately poorly worded questions in prior Comres/C4M/Catholic Voices opinion polls.
However, what is important and inescapable for me in the information known to date is:
77% of LGBT people want equal marriage (i.e. no ban on being able to marry due to orientation).
Now, far be it from me to say but that sounds like an overwhelming majority in favour of equal marriage!
And even better if 77% or more of the British public supported it.
Good grief, there seems to be a poll on or around equal marriage every day of the week now – in another month or so they might actually have canvassed the opinion of, ooh, 0.001% of the population.
Time to implement a different sort of poll tax, perhaps. :-)
Good point, Rehan. Less than 1% of the population is rather dismal anyway even though the number of signatures in the C4M petition seem numerous. Doesn’t really mean anything but to them it does of course. They’re delusional if you ask me. They’re going nowhere.
The Guardian have now kindly de-constructed the survey methodology, the sample, the questions and the results:
As might be expected, all is not quite what it seems.
So they did lie again. I had hoped for better.
Behavioural psychology explains some of this poll data.
Readers may have come across the concept of “learned helplessness”.
Where LGBT people are concerned, it means that many of us are so used to being treated like second class citizens, that we adjust our life expectations in a way that blocks our imagining things could be better. Hence some of the negative polling figures among LGBT people: low expectations resulting from institutionalised homophobia.
Wiki on learned helplessness:
“In the learned helplessness experiment an animal is repeatedly hurt by an adverse stimulus which it cannot escape.
Eventually the animal will stop trying to avoid the pain and behave as if it is utterly helpless to change the situation.
Finally, when opportunities to escape are presented, this learned helplessness prevents any action. The only coping mechanism the animal uses is to be stoical and put up with the discomfort, not expending energy getting worked up about the adverse stimulus.”
After seeing the lies exposed by the Guardian analysis of the data, I think the Mail and Telegraph’s seriously misleading reporting should be referred to the Leveson Inquiry.
Here’s another poll for them to get their teeth into, from Richard Dawkins’ website:
People who describe themselves as Catholic but do not accept the church’s key teachings should be “honest” and admit they no longer belong to the faith, atheist author and scientist Prof Richard Dawkins has told a Dublin audience.
He said he was intrigued by this week’s Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI poll showing almost two thirds (62 per cent) of Catholics believed the bread and wine which was blessed during Mass “only represents the body and blood” of Christ.
Just 26 per cent said they believed the bread and wine transformed into Christ’s body and blood in accordance with the doctrine of transubstantiation.
“If they don’t believe in transubstantiation then they are not Roman Catholics,” Prof Dawkins said. “If they are honest they should say they are no longer Roman Catholics.”
I am Dr Paul Davis-Whiteskunk and I made a complaint to the Advertising Authority regarding the advertisement the Coalition for Marriage had in the Daily Telegraph and the Country Life magazine.
The Advertising Authority have made their final adjudication and have sent me the full report. They have asked me to treat the report as confidential until Wednesday the 13th June 2012. I did not at any time agree to any confidentiality embargo, and feel that they are overstepping their mark by asking me to comply with their request.
They say in the letter the final adjudication will be made available to journalists on that date.
I feel this is a very important adjudication by them, and affects a greater majority of Lesbian, Gay and Transgender people. who I feel have been offended by the advertisement. I also feel the advertisements the Coalition for Marriage made were in fact misleading to the ordinary person reading these advertisements.
I have also had a copy of the same appalling adjudication.
The entire premise of their decision is wrong.
Are to presume form your confidential responses that the decision was not good?
I am very tempted to go an find it and tell you exactly what the premise is that I disagree with!
I won’t breach the confidentiality – but suffice to saw there are other investigations by the Information Commissioner and others into the conduct of the C4M – so lets wait and see what they produce too.
I was very disappointed by this comment from the toothless Press Complaint Council against the Mail article on the bus adverts that Boris banned, I quote from their letter:
“All complainants said that the article had been discriminatory and offensive toward gay people, and they expressed their view that the columnist had used the term ‘aberration’ in a way that was pejorative and malicious. The Commission sympathised with complainants’ concerns on this point; however, under Clause 12 (i) newspapers must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual’s race, colour, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. The terms of the Clause do not cover references to groups or categories of people, such as members of the LGBT community in general. In this instance, the references
which the complainants objected to had not been directed at a specific individual; in the absence of reference to a specific individual, the Commission did not establish a breach of the Code.”
So in other words the PCC understood that the article was pejorative, homophobic and offensive – but because it was not directed at one individual – then this is deemed acceptable under their Code of Practice – shocking!
Like I have said before if equal marriage isn’t legalised I’ll be angry not disappointed. There is no good reason why gay marriage shouldn’t be legalised and if it isn’t, it will shows how much of a theocratic hellhole this country is and ill have even less respect for religion.
they should have gone in gay venues instead to do it online i can easily say i am straight on an online survey even if i am gay…. how did they choose the poll?? looks like a fake survey what would not surprise me coming from these people
Exactly right, most polls mean absolutely nothing. They can all be skewed and manipulated to attain the desired result.
I don’t want or need gay marriage and neither do any of my gay mates. It is the radical wing of militant gays who are pushing this agenda. We have civil ceremonies. What else do they want. They do not speak for all mainstream gays and their extremism is turning fair-minded people against us as we appear to be a united force that will stop at nothing until our rights dominate and supersede the rights of everyone else in society. It is getting to the point where I am ashamed to call myself gay these days thanks to the fanatics.
Is there any chance that you are not a real person?
Definitely not gay either.
Are you “Aiden” in disguise/his re4al self?
That’s right, have a go at me because I don’t step into line with all of the whining Minnies who dominate these discussions. Why do you find it so hard to accept that gay marriage is neither relevant nor the most crucial issue facing the aVerage gay man today? Just because the average gay man isn’t likely to devote all his spare time to posting here does that his voice on the issue should not be heard. A lot of us just wish the minority who scream and shout the loudest would put a sock in it. You don’t speak for all gay people. Got it?
My problem is not that you have a different opinion to me.
You are entitled to that.
My problem is not that you want to use freedom of speech to express your opinion.
My problem is that you seem to believe that my seeking equality somehow demeans other peoples rights – it does not.
My problem is that you are happy for some people to be treated by society as unequal.
My problem is that you feel because you do not want marriage, or your “friends”, then its acceptable that no LGBT person should have marriage. Thats not acceptable.
Voice your opinion, whether it agrees with other peoples or not. Do not try to deny rights for others because you and your “friends” do not want them.
Yes but when you profess to speak for all gay people it does matter because a lot of gay people do not consider gay marriage to be either necessary and least of all a priority. Civil ceremonies give us all the rights and protection we need entering into a partnership. And to be honest out of the three I have ended they have all ended in tears and acrimony soon after yet were happy together fOr years before tying their respective knots. Gay men and vows if commitment very very rarely go hand in hand. It is men’s nature not to commit so marriage is a futile cause to be venting your spleen over.
At no point have I tried to speak for all LGBT people. Indeed, I know that I do not speak for all LGBT people. I do speak for myself.
Perhaps you could explain where I gave you the impression that I speak for all LGBT people?
However, you seem to believe you speak for all LGBT people when you say “Gay men and vows if commitment very very rarely go hand in hand. It is men’s nature not to commit so marriage is a futile cause”.
You do not speak for me.
In my circle of LGBT friends there are 8 couples who have been together for more than 12 years. One of those couples has been married for nearly that long (they lived in Holland), 5 others have CPs (4 of them want to marry if they can instead). 2 do not wish to marry.
Now, statistically you are in a minority (in my experience and according to opinion polls). That does not mean you are entitled to your opinion – you are. What you are not entitled to do is deny others rights because you do not want them!
I meant to write “out of the three civil ceremonies I have attended…” The truth is that men are generally emotionally immature, a good number of gay men more so. Two men together invariably end up being a power struggle and each trying to control and change the other. We see it in our community all the time. I do believe marriage requires a woman’s emotional maturity to work which is why so many gay men I know think the call for gay marriage is just the gay lobby in overdrive as it is a no-win situation.
It’s a joke sweet pea. Get over it
And tell me in my 7/8 word post. At what point point did I claim to “speak for all gay people.”?
My experience is that CPs and same sex marriages can last a lot longer than some of the heterosexual marriages that I have attending the weddings of.
In any event, regardless of opinion. Your desire to not extend marriage to LGBT people results in rights being denied. My desire to see equality does not prevent you taking the choice not to marry.
If you are really a gay guy, then you are a very superficial individual.
Marriage equality is not only about hormones, emotions or which type of couples last longer, if men are “naturally” monogamous or polygamous. If that was the case, then marriage should be ban at all, for everyone, because a lot of men AND women DO cheat.
Marriage equality is about being treated equally by the law, no matter if you are gay or straight. If you don’t believe in marriage and don’t want to marry, is your personal opinion (and that of your “friends”). Don’t do it. Nobody will force you to do it. But don’t force on others your opinions.
Probably right about that, Kris. Don’t engage the troll.
That’s the trouble with anonymous message boards. Anyone can pretend to be anyone else.
The message you have conveyed, and its wording, could easily have been written by a militant religious C4M campaigner on the Daily Telegraph comments section.
Are anti-equality campaigners now pretending to be disaffected LGBT people so they can continue their campaign of deception on LGBT message boards?
Apologies “Richie” if you are really who you say you are. But I just don’t believe it.
Sheesh, calling the introduction of equal marriage – supported by the Conservative PM – “extremist” and a measure indicating the will to “stop at nothing until our rights dominate and supersede the rights of everyone else in society.” Yeah, right, you are definitely gay.
Does anyone else agree with me that the religious anti-marriage campaigners are starting to get quite desperate?
There’s nothing radical or extreme or militant in trying to gain equality. And I don’t see how gaining equality supersedes the rights of everyone else. You sound like a right dlckhead.
Here is a much more authoritative survey:
“Our findings highlighted that while lesbian, gay and bisexual people strongly support the legal recognition of same sex relationships they are especially in favour of same sex marriage, and believe that all individuals (regardless of their sexuality) should have access to the same relationship choices and statuses”
“Aw, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that.”
I do not understand how they can give a percentage of LGBT Britons when a lot of people are closeted and when neither me, not any LGBT person I know was asked. It seems they pluck figures out their backside.
Can I just say that these ‘results’ could starcely have been presented in a more confusing way.
I appreciate that PN is not reporting directly from the original source of the data but presenting data through a series of double negative statements isn’t ideal
Perhaps it would have been more straightforward to headline the article:
“77 percent of Britain’s gay community supported marriage equality between gay and straight couples on principle”
…. or something similar.
As for the legal benefits result it appears that 26% felt that civil partnerships offer the same legal benefits as marriage, 49% disagreed, and 25% were unsure.
As it is, I had to read it about three times to make sure I understood it
I am sick and tired of the Catholic church butting into our lives uninvited and most assuredly unwanted! They need to stay in their own sphere and leave our secular culture to us, the Citizens. May their evil bigoted meddling bring about their permanent demise…..religion needs to be ruthlessly destroyed, as it tries to ruthlessly destroy an entire population of humans who are innocent of what religion claims….the LGBTIQ community deserves HUMAN RIGHTS whatever the evil religious claim to the contrary….ALL humans deserve the same Huiman Rights! Period!
From what I can tell, arguments against same gender marriage mirror that of the arguments that were made in the USA in the 1960s as “evidence” that interracial marriage should be outlawed.
God and Religion
“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
“The State’s prohibition of interracial marriage . . . stands on the same footing
as the prohibition of polygamous marriage, or incestuous marriage, or the prescription of minimum ages at which people may marry, and the prevention of the marriage of people who are mentally incompetent.”
Right of Marriage not Denied to Anyone
“Each [party seeking to marry a member of a different race] has the right and the privilege of marrying within his or her own group.”
End of the World as we Know it
“Interracial marriages would be a “calamity full of the saddest and gloomiest portent to the generations that are to come after us.”
Traditional Marriage Destroyed
“Allowing interracial marriages “necessarily involves the degradation” of conventional marriage, an institution that “deserves admiration rather than execration.”
Think of the Children
“It is contended that interracial marriage has adverse effects not only upon the parties thereto but upon their progeny . . . and that the progeny of a marriage between a Negro and a Caucasian suffer not only the stigma of such inferiority but the fear of rejection by members of both races.”
Of course the issue of same sex marriage also has the additional erroneous arguments of marriage being a place for procreation only. I also suspect no one ever tried to suggest being black was a “lifestyle choice” whereas they use that argument with SSM.
We must just laugh at these bigots.
Brilliant quotations. Plus ca change …
Elaine, interracial marriage WAS outlawed in the US for a hundred years in fact, and ended only in 1970 or so, and here in the South, it is still not at all acceptable by most people, sadly….do not think even for a single moment that America is not filled with a robust bigotry against non-whites, non-males, non-heterosexuals, non-rich people because it IS filled with such people and the bigotry here is off the charts…many wear their bigotry with PRIDE! There have no shame at all…..and ALL of them are “fine Christian people”….go figure….
I love this aide memoire on equal marriage:
Their last claimed “survey” was fraudulent. I suspect this will be the same. Popularity is irrelevant. What’s being considered here is equality. Rights are not up for popular vote, they are there to protect everyone. I have yet to hear a convincing argument as to how marrying someone of the same sex affects anyone who doesn’t want to marry someone of the same sex. This is not about what’s popular, it’s about what’s right.
I don’t suppose they thought to ask the question…
Would you prefer that UK marriage law did not discriminate against you as a gay person?
Incidently there is a marriage law that does discriminate against Catholics in the UK. Under the Act of Settlement, 1702 it is forbidden for a member of the Royal Family to marry a Catholic in England and Wales. On occassion when Royals did marry a Catholic they had to do so in Scotland (which did not join the Union until five years later) or another country and forfeit any right they may have to the throne. This discrimatory law has been a thorn in the side of the relationship between Catholics, particularly in Scotland and Ireland and Protestants. Fortunately this outdated act, brought in during the reign of King William III, whose victory over the Catholic James II at the Boyne in 1690 is celebrated every July 12th, is set for repeal along with the rule that favours male children in succession to the throne. Marriage equality means just that – it is for everybody.
You got to remember that there are lies, dammed lies and statistics, but recent opinion polls in the UK have consistantly showed support for marriage equality. In the case of the Catholic Voices poll the only ones who will dispute it’s findings will be the Pope and his Cardinals as the majority of grass-roots Catholics are either happy to allow gay marriage or have far more important issues in the world to consider.
What do polls mean anyway. The majority of Catholics in England if you ask them directly would support marriage rights and recognition for gay men and women. But the bishops and hierarchy continue to ignore them anyway.
Its really interesting that ion other Catholic Voices polls they have been quick to flood the media with polls (which they have manipulated) to try and show claims of public support from their grotesque views.
However, I am struggling to find any mention of all of the findings of the poll in any mainstream media over the weekend – other than PN and the Guardian. Could it be that Catholic Voices do not like being open and transparent? As if, one could suggest such a thing!!! ;-)
I can find some selected “facts” in the Mail and Telegraph and even on Catholic Voices website – but none of the 77% of people supporting equality in marriage which it appears Comres agreed was a finding of the poll.
It seems Catholic Voices continue to use the same grotesque deceptions, lies and to bear false witness by their lack of honesty and transparency in this area.
All signs of someone desperate to win an argument they have already lost.
My apologies CV do mention it – unsurprisingly the do not focus on it and the Mail and Telegraph barely mention it. This comment demonstrates they are manipulating statistics to deceive in a disingenuous manner to try and promote their grotesque campaign.
Still signs of people losing the argument and battling to support the indefensible.
Catholic Voice do confirm on their website:
“More than two-thirds (77%) of gay people disagree that marriage should be only between a man and a woman, and the same number (72%) believe “marriage is more about love between two people than it is about rearing children”.
That sounds very much like a majority of LGBT people agreeing with the need for equality in marriage and totally at odds with their claim of this being a “blow for the gay rights lobby”.. It actually appears sheer desperation from CV as they try and save a poll which shows 3/4 of LGBT people want equality – the equality CV seek to deny and to ensure LGBT people are devalued.