Great to see that their instant reaction to something that challenges their immoral and inhumane stance of seeking to promote inequality and depravation of human rights for a whole segment of society is to invoke Godwins law.
They can not find any other method to criticise because their stance is illogical, immoral and unfair.
The laughable thing about using Godwins law is that the very issue that equal marriage proponents are seeking to ensure is introduced – fairness and equality was exactly what H1tler sought to prevent.
The churches (and others) that seek to prevent equal marriage – by virtue of their approach seek to deny civil rights to the LGBT communities. Now, isn’t that exactly one of the core groups of society that H1tler sought to demonise and whom he sent to the gas chambers?
They need to learn their history. Their comparison is specious, wrong and ignorant.
They love to project their own illiberal attitudes onto others.
The anti-gay Christians are blaming the gays for what the Christians are doing. Think about it.
This is the same Jim Wallace who argued that Australian religious schools, should have the right to apply discrimination on the basis of sexuality, though Jim Wallace has stated he would expect that any school conducting an expulsion on such a basis would do it “in the most loving way that it could for the child”. How do you homophobically segregate a child lovingly?
That’s quite evil.
I agree. Very evil, underhand, corrupt and inhumane.
Sounds very much like the entire attitude of the ACL and similar organisations like CI and C4M
The same Wallace who lies and deceives:
In Sept 2011, Jim Wallace stated the majority of Australians were against gay marriage. In response to this statements, journalist Geoff Lemon accused Jim Wallace of misleading the public, noting that two professional offline polls from 2010 show 57 and 62 percent of Australians support gay marriage respectively.
Wallace stated that legalising gay marriage would result in religious ministers “being forced to conduct same-sex weddings against their conscience”. Journalist Jacob Holman described that statement as “a ridiculous lie”, considering the bill in favour of legalising gay marriage at the time explicitly stated that would not be the case and only 12 per cent of respondents to a senate inquiry disagreed that churches should be allowed to refuse to marry gay couples.
Interestingly, a high ranking Australian RC Bishop stated that the ACL is often driven not to change policy per se, but to make noise to satiate those who fund and support ACL
In July 2011 the ACL joined Loree Rudd, the sister of Kevin Rudd, in accusing supporters of marriage equality of using Nzai tactics in campaigning for equal rights. After Loree Rudd was criticised for referring to gay-rights activists as ‘”the global gay Gestapo’”, the ACL’s Jim Wallace suggested marriage equality advocates needed to learn from the horrors of Nzai Germany, stating “I suggest Loree Rudd’s opponents visit the museum in Nuremberg and see how important it is that these deplorable tactics be opposed.” The Jewish Community supporting Marriage Equality called upon Loree Rudd and the ACL to apologise for their comments which “offended both the LGBT community and the Holocaust-survivor community”, stating that the ACL’s comments that marriage equality lobbyists used the same tactics of “fear and intimidation to silence dissent” as the Nzais did were “offensive and obviously untrue.” NSW Jewish Board of Deputies chief executive officer Vic Alhadeff also condemned Loree Rudd and
the ACL’s use of Nzai analogies, stating “Drawing a comparison between advocates of gay marriage and the Gestapo is insensitive and counterproductive. The thoughtless use of Nzai and Holocaust analogies in intelligent and informed discourse is completely inappropriate and unjustified.”
Clearly, Wallace and the ACL have not learned their lessons and continue to use “deplorable tactics” which are “offensive and untrue”.
Well done to early morning program Sunrise, it’s a really popular program and loads of people watch it. Fantastic coverage. When is the UK going to do the same thing?
The ACL are bright ones , aren’t they? I sometimes wonder wether they would like Australia to be led by H1tler and have us all thrown in prison rather than give us any rights.
The ACL was involved in the National Marriage Day rally in 2011. Conflicting sources report the ACL as either a co-founder of the rally or just a supporter. The ACL’s Jim Wallace told those who attended that there was, “a need to end the pejorative language framing this debate.” The Sydney Morning Herald described the event as a “rally to ridicule gay marriage”. Guest speakers at the rally stated gay marriage should be “laughed at and ridiculed” and associated gay marriage with paedophilia. Regarding the comments made at the rally mental health psychologist Paul Martin stated “Prejudice and ridicule damage the mental health of young same-sex attracted people and the last thing they need to hear are these kinds of offensive comments from people who purport to represent ‘family values’.”
Wallace smacks of clutching at straws and a determination to hurt, offend and damage people if they are LGBT. His heinous actions are rightly exposed by Australian TV and long may they continue to
support equality and fairness – and expose ignorance, bigotry and inhumane approaches such as those of Wallace and the ACL.
We must picture Jim Wallace and his small band of homophobic bigots from the Australian Christian Lobby, as they sit in the basement of their lair in Canberra and feverishly monitor the Australian media for outbreaks of humanity and equality. And when they spot such a transgression on god’s plan, Jimmy-boy will give the command, and his army of godbothering zombies will get to work and fire up their typewriters, to exert pressure on those who would partake in such egregious equal rights campaigns, or may show tendencies to do so.
That’s what happened this week when the ACL reportedly started sending in emails to sponsors of the Channel 7 Sunrise program, in response to Sunrise’s support for the I Do campaign, asking those sponsors to drop their donations to Sunrise.
There are events supporting the “I Do” campaign in Sydney and Melbourne tomorrow, June 7, and you can also send the sponsors of Sunrise a message of support here. Not that anyone should care what Jimmy and the Bigots
think, but here’s part of their press statement :
That a TV current affairs show, let alone TV station, should take sides in such a highly contentious issue in the public square is disgraceful. What it says for the respect they have for alternative opinion, even our values, is extremely disappointing and we need to register our disappointment.
Translation : How dare anyone disagree with our religiously motivated homophobia in public, you are so not respecting our right to bigotry !
Time more people ignored the hateful shrieks from this band of clowns.
Borrowed from the blog of Australian, Jarod Dankin
Is it wrong to eagerly anticipate and relish the schadenfreude that will occur when equal marriage is established in Australia and the muppets at ACL are shown up to their nation for their bigotry?
I have to say, whether wrong or not, and as much as I support our Aussie cousins – I can not wait to experience schadenfreude like I have never experienced when equal marriage is introduced in the UK. Oh to see the likes of the CI, C4M, Andrea Willians, Nadine Dorries, Sentamu, O’Brien, Gale etc – it will be sheer pleasure!
Please don’t tell me I am wrong in wanting to experience this.
No co-incidence that Sentamu, like Clarkson, writes for the Sun!
I am still not convinced that marriage equality will happen in Australia…at least not now, not yet. Sadly.
However, when shameless political posturing on both Gillard’s and Abbott’s sides lead to the equality bills failing in the House of Reps, I will at least be consoled by how very embarrassing that’s going to look for our politicians, when even Channel 7 are out in favour of same-sex marriage.
History will not remember these MPs kindly.
This guy is sick. First the nazls gas us in the camps. Then when we try and get equality, the christians say we are like the nazls. Hltler and goebbels were both christian, not gay. They both would have been proud of what the christian church are doing to try and stop us gaining equality.
And wasn’t the Propaganda Minister the ideal hetero that the ACL is calling for – happily married to a solid German woman who gave him 6 wonderful German children and then went on to poison them all before killing himself in the bunker (I couldn’t be bothered to check wiki so apologize in advance for my faulty memory).
This is the best response.
“Mr Wallace raised fears of polygamous unions following on from marriage equality and concern for children involved. Dr Phelps replied: “I’m thrilled that you’ve raised this issue of polygamy, because in every nation where polygamy is legal being gay is illegal. In every country where same-sex marriage is legal, polygamy is illegal.”
I love it and I predict that this will become a common quote on the PN Forums as desperate bible-basher after desperate bible basher assures us that same sex marriage will open the doors to polgamy.
Interesting how that meme is the fundamentalist canard that wouldn’t die… the notion that gay marriage is the defacto slippery slope to polygamy.
Perhaps Mr Wallace would like to ask certain middle eastern states such as Iraq and Saudi Arabia where polygamy is legal where they stand on legalising gay relationships (let alone marriage).
But that would blow one humungous hole in his flawed syllogistic argument, wouldn’t it?
Absolutely – an excellent quote she’s given us.
Polygamy seems to be more or less legal in South Africa, where same-sex couples can marry. But no prizes for guessing which was allowed first.
The issue of polygamy in S Africa is complex.
Technically it is not legal, although there is evidence of cultural acceptance of it – as it is practiced in some Zulu cultures. Indeed, the S African President Zuma has several wives.
The law that was passed that gave recognition to the cultural significance of polygamy in some situations has been regarded as unconstitutional and the S African Constitutional court is in the process of reaching a conclusion on this – although this is expected to take some time.
It is often said that polygamous marriages are unconstitutional. The equality clause trumps the right to culture in the S African Bill of Rights and polygamy discriminates against women – so the argument goes – because it allows a man to marry many wives but not a woman to marry many husbands and because the emotional and financial position of the existing wives is said to be weakened when the husband takes another wife.
Polygamous marriage culturally is ancient in Zulu culture
The spite and hatefulness of these people can now no longer be denied even by their apologists.
Why can’t the BBC or Sky News adopt similar interview techniques when it comes to the issue of equal marriage?
“I’m thrilled that you’ve raised this issue of polygamy, because in every nation where polygamy is legal being gay is illegal. In every country where same-sex marriage is legal, polygamy is illegal.”
Succinctly put. Knock out blow.
Are there no mirrors in Australia?
Superb article which demonstrates how dangerous and subversive the ACL really are:
“[G]overnment exists not so much to create laws as to secure laws, to apply God’s laws to general and specific situations … False law-making – such as ‘concessions to the majority’ as a basis for the legalisation of abortion, homosexuality, pedophilia or incest – will not be tolerated by God.”
“Just as responsible Muslims have distanced themselves from the lunatic ravings of Ibrahim Siddiq-Conlon, it is time for the leaders of Australia’s mainstream Christian churches to publicly disassociate themselves from the right-wing, extremist, divisive dominionism of the ACL.”
And now, they seek to restrict freedom of speech in the media – especially when the questions posed of them are not those they like – e.g. why they seek to prevent civil rights!
When the Tasmanian parliament passed their gay marriage bill, the ACL issued a press release stating their views on this “complex” issue (no doubt drafted after much “thought” and application of “intelligence”):
“The Greens’ intolerance of toward people who support marriage between a man and a woman is not only absurd but a worry for people who dissent to their views”
Apparently the ACL believe equality for all regardless of natural and innate sexual orientation is tantamount to intolerance toward opposite sex couples. This is laughably stupid.
The press release went on:
“The Tasmanian Greens claim today in Parliament that Liberal Leader Will Hodgman’s views supporting marriage are ‘bigoted’ is vitriolic and intolerant”
Well, when you have no evidence based rational reasons for preventing others from enjoying the same privileges and rights you do, then you will rightly be called a “bigot”. Get used to it.
The press release continued:
“A disappointing factor of the marriage
debate has been the serial demonisation of people who support marriage”
Surely, the ACL should be cstatic that now even more people will be tying the knot?
“What have we come to where it is ‘bigoted’ and ‘shameful’ to support the idea of marriage remaining between a man and a woman?”
If you find the idea of marrying somebody of the same sex, then don’t do it. Preventing other people from marrying because you find the idea distasteful is selfish and mean. What would Jesus think?
“Many people support marriage because they believe being raised by parents of different genders, wherever possible, is in the best interests of a child. Surely this is not bigotry”
No marriage certificates have ever asked if the couple are fertile and willing to have children. Nor do we annul marriages if couples have not had kids within a sufficient period, or wringing our hands at the plight of single parents (at least in relation to their marital status). Moreover, there are no studies demonstrating
different gender parents produce “better” children (whatever that means), but the ACL won’t let pesky things like facts get in the way.
“If the Greens had absolute political power, what would they do to ‘bigots’ who do not conform to their views? Would it become a crime to say that a child should have every opportunity to have a mum and a dad?”
What an absurd example demonstrating a slippery slope argument. Although a slightly new variation on the discredited slippery slope argument.. We could easily reverse the question – what would the ACL do if they had absolute political power? Seems their religious ancestors dealt with homosexuals rather harshly if we are to believe the book of Leviticus as they claim to interpret it.
We certainly do not want a theocracy of the type that existed in Old Testament times, nor do we want any form of extremist right wing dominionist approaches which the ACL seem to support.
“debate on same-sex marriage was a typical misuse of the
Parliament’s time by the Greens who don’t seem to care that marriage is a Commonwealth responsibility in their pursuit of radical social experiments.”
I didnt realise registration of births, marriages and deaths were social experiments!
“Even though the next election is years away, I’m sure the Christian constituency will not forget how members voted today.”
And the rest of us will remember how the ACL behaves when their bigoted religious views are challenged and overturned.
In February 2011, Jim Wallace of the Australian Christian Lobby defended the right of religious schools to expel gay students for no other reason except for being gay. He said he had no qualms about the law and that a church school should have the right to expel any openly gay child. What an interesting distinction is made here; and how curiously reminiscent of segregation. “Religious schools should be segregated on the basis of sexual orientation, but we might tolerate you if you can ‘pass as straight’.”
Jim, of course, realizes his stance on this might seem a little … well … un-Christlike, so he quickly adds a proviso:
“But I would expect any church that found itself in that situation to do that in the most loving way that it could for the child and to reduce absolutely any negative affects … I think it’s a loving response.”
Personally, I’m struggling to understand how you can expel a student, just for being who they are, in a ‘loving’ way; but then, the religious bigots who
opposed racial desegregation also professed their ‘abiding love’ for the Negro people (“But please, just keep them out of our schools and churches.”).
According to Wallace, it is not Christians who seek to inhibit diversity and, through legislation, force all Australians to live in accordance with a particular set of moral values, but homosexuals. It is an argument of such arrogant audacity and heartless hubris that it left me physically ill and shaking with rage. It reminded me of a particular quote from another vocal supporter of Christian doctrine:
“If, with the help of his Marxist creed, the Jew is victorious over the other peoples of the world, his crown will be the funeral wreath of humanity and this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men.
Eternal Nature inexorably avenges the infringement of her commands.
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
Yes, just as poor old H1tler had to defend humanity against the oppression of the Jews, Jim has to defend Christians against the oppression of the homosexual lobby – and both invoke God as their witness. See, if he can invoke Godwin – then so can we!
It is a time-honoured strategy of bullies and thugs to blame their victims and cast themselves as the oppressed. It is ‘Religion 101’ to appeal to ‘natural law’ and the ‘will of the Almighty Creator’ in defending the indefensible.
Wallace and the Australian Christian Lobby have tried very hard to portray themselves as religious moderates. Wallace protests that the ACL is not seeking an Australian theocracy. No! They don’t want a theocracy, they just want laws based on Christian doctrine or, if this can’t be achieved, exemptions to allow Christians to practice the prejudice and bigotry that decent Australians reject.
I thank Mr Wallace for writing an opinion piece in the The Australian. I hope it was widely read. For, within this hateful, petty, disingenuous, irrational and self-serving piece of despicable drivel is revealed the true, black and ugly heart of the Australian Christian Lobby andAustralia’s religious right.
Is it only because I don’t believe in resurrection that I am deafened by the sound of Jesus of Nazareth turning in his grave?
Personally, Jim, I think you and your ilk should be expelled from Australia, unless, of course, you can ‘pass’ as civilised human beings. And I mean that, of course, in the most loving way.
Mr Wallace said in an interview on Australian TV “Sunrise on Seven” that Muslims who seek to place their religion above government are ‘extremists’. Given this statement, it is worth referring to comments made regarding Wallace in 2005:
“One of the key things that ACL likes to focus on is areas where it can have a disproportionate impact for the Gospel. So, the area
of politics and government, where ACL works in, is one particular field. If you can get through government and policy makers then it can influence laws and it can have a disproportionate effect within the culture. ”
Jane Douglas has written an insightful piece on the Wallace tactics of blaming the victim:
““… as someone who has close experience of the lasting effect of sexual abuse on children, I feel I need to make this statement: I warn my kids about people like Jim Wallace in an effort to abuser-proof them. I tell them that bullies and abusers function by fooling us that it not the person who said or did something wrong who is at fault, but rather the poor sod who made an embarrassing fuss about it. I tell them that this is an evil lie.
Abusers harm us, and then slyly try to make us feel ashamed about saying we were harmed. They trick their victims into feeling bad that they spoke up rather than taking responsibility for their own abusive actions. The irony that no fuss would
need to have been made had the abuser not acted inappropriately in the first place seems to evade them.It’s this sort of self-preserving manipulation that makes molested children reluctant to disclose the terrible truth of the abuser’s actions for fear of spoiling everyone’s mood and bringing the wrath of the abuser down on their heads. Not that I’m suggesting Jim Wallace is a child molester, but the game is the same. And it should never go unchallenged.”
It still amuses me that these idiots harp on about polygamy yet didn’t King Soloman have 700 wives?
Dr. Phelps’ quote about polygamy is genius and as she also said he cannot pick and chose the parts of the bible that he sees fit for his argument, which in any case is deeply flawed anyway.
Ironically the techniques of fear, propaganda, superstition, lies and knowledge control that have been used by the National Socialist Party have been utilised for thousands of years by Religions, including christianity.
Christians can be such blind fools sometimes.
Australia was the only English-speaking democracy in the world whose leader did not support equal marriage rights adding that the movement “is very strong around the world”. and wallace responded…;“That’s an absolute nonsense and you know it. We have 196 countries in the world, ten of them have legislated for same-sex marriage, so we’re not, despite this normal spin put on it by people like you, we are not in a situation falling behind the world. ….seems as if bigotry also has a detrimental affect on hearing, but the real reason is he doesn’t have a great grasp of the Englis Language as seems to be a common thread with idiots like him….
oops English** obviously.
You can watch it here…
I take it then that Adolf Hitler advocated marriage equality then!
Silly misguided man looking for publicity.
It would be the worst thing for activist to come out in support of (because conservatives could scream “we were right!”), but am I the only one who honestly wouldn’t be bothered if polygamy was legal? Provided everyone was consenting I’d see no problem.
Secretly, agreed. I can’t say I’m that afraid of the alleged ‘slippery slope’ to polygamous marriages! Plenty of people [gay, straight, bi, the works] are polyamorous and/or live in committed poly relationships already. And it would probably be handy for things like co-parenting arrangements too.
Why shouldn’t consenting adults be allowed to enter into officially sanctioned polyamorous relationships if they want to? What possible ethical objection is there?
My only hesitation is that statistically there is more abuse and victimisation in polygamous relationships.
Also there is a correlation between polygamy and some relationships where there is a lack of true consent.
But I was talking about consensual polyamory which is different. All parties marry each other…. not just a guy with several wives, or woman with several husbands… I guess its more of a California thing…!
But interesting that the readers of Pink News have given me a bunch of thumbs down on this one… I guess live and let live is not for everyone.
I don’t mean to come off as ‘anti-equal marriage’. I am a gay male and currently engaged. I recently moved to Canberra from Sydney because of my fiance’s work. Anyway, as much as I would love to be able to marry, I still find that civil union is enough. We have come a LONG way since the middle ages and beyond. Even a long way since the beginning of the 1900s. Currently looking at our rights, they are the same as a married couple, it’s just a different name really. If my partner dies in deployment I am entitled to know the details. I am entitled to adopt. I am entitled to share income and a house. We are recognised as a loving couple. I am entitled to his military benefits…All I can say is, I’m happy. And really, at the end of the day, you don’t really need a piece of paper to validate your commitment, you just need to be committed.
Just my 2 cents.