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Tunisia rejects UNHRC recommendation to decriminalise gay sex

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  1. PrinzOtto 6 Jun 2012, 4:48pm

    This is really simple. Islam is not compatible with western culture or values. Gay persons stay out of Islamic countries they don’t want you anyway, and facilitate where possible (perhaps through our governments?) the immigration of gay muslims out of the horrific situation they find themselves in.

    1. Islam is not really compatible with 1500s Western Culture let alone today’s culture. It is a shame such lovely countries are ruined by “the religion of peace”

    2. Thats fine – and I agree to a point.

      However, what about the LGBT people who live in Tunisia – do they not matter too?

      Do we want to force them to leave their families, jobs, friends?

      Do we want to create ghettos where LGBT people are unwelcome?

      Surely, a better construct is to persuade and encourage (with robust mechanisms where possible) all nations to adopt a stance of equality?

    3. This is not that simple. All religions have a wide spectrum of people. The religion per se doesn’t mean much. The interpretations of some people are the problem.

      1. Absolutely there are, usually, a wide spectrum of people with varying views in almost every religion and its not reasonable to responsible to stereotype them as all having a singular view or perception on every (or indeed any) issue.

        The views of Archbishop Tutu, Rabbi Jonathan Romain, Imam Daayiee Abdullah, Rev Geoffrey Farrow (RC Church) and many others are all known as being supportive of equal marriage.

        Others are less so.

    4. Cardinal Capone 7 Jun 2012, 1:11am

      Seems like none of you read the comments by the Islamic expert in Miami.

      1. LOL – you mean the ‘expert’ who would be rejected by mainstream Islam, let alone fundamentalist Islamism?

        It’s very strange that both this expert and the article claims that the law against homosexual sex in Tunisia is the fault of nasty ‘colonisers’, yet homosexuality was LEGAL in France throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries (including 1913 when this particular Tunisian law was passed).

  2. Then cut ALL aid that they are funded with until they conform to Human Right’s Laws. When they are out of money because they will not give people the freedom they deserve they will either change their mind or the people will be that fed up with the government change will be forced.

    1. Keith Farrell 6 Jun 2012, 7:58pm

      Tounsi, you have a barbaric religion, one that encounges murder of people. you dont even want to give full and equal rights to your woman, yes you may have the oil, but you cannot eat it, if you refused to sell oil and the world refused to sell you food, how long will you be able to survive, we can walk, can you drink crude?

    2. Thats fine, there are plenty of nations from whom we can achieve trade (and use our own reserves of Oil and Gas) and seek alternative energy sources to maintain energy security.

      If you wish to put trade embargos and restrictions in place in contravention of UN agreements on trade – then expect measures which respond to that – sanctions which prohibit export of military good, new technologies, prevent access to UK education, prohibit entry to the EU, ban companies based in the EU from trading with you etc etc …

      Now, its quite simple you either accept human rights, recognise them, ensure they are respected or you act as inhumane savages who subjugate people because of how they were born – you react to small scale encouragement to try and change, and you face the consequences of difficulties to your economy.

      Oh, which country are you from Tounsi – so that we can debate relevant facts?

      1. You keep saying our – do you mean Tunisia, or some other country – who is “our”?

        Once you supply this little nugget of essential information then we can debate honestly and with information and I will address the lies and inaccuracies in your current statements.

        However, you will probably choose to hide behind your anonymity due to the cowardice that most homophobes have and who hate dealing in facts and real evidence.

        Do you have the courage to debate properly, openly and honestly – or are you as insipid and weak as all the other homophobes?

      2. Shake Spear 7 Jun 2012, 12:20am

        Tounsi, you’re a fag yourself or you wouldn’t be here, right?

        1. Rachel Haytread 7 Jun 2012, 8:48pm

          I don’t think using the term ‘fag’ is helpful or warranted.

      3. “except fags”… and women’s rights, and transgendered rights, and anyone’s right to life if they disagree with you, and the right of animals not to suffer a drawn out death so you can eat it, and the right of free speech if it contradicts your stupid holy book. I do not think you respect a single right for anyone other than adult, muslim, heterosexual males.

      4. Most oil producing countries have been shockingly dishonest about how much oil they have left. It will soon be gone.

    3. Besides the way the west behaves when they want oil is barbaric, and if you think you will stand in the way of oil starved western nations with your magic carpets and roadside bombs then think again. It is nothing for this country to be proud of, but at least here we have the right to exist and be happy.

      1. Realised that sounded different from how I meant it to. Having the right to be happy and exist is something to be proud of, but the way our nations can behave when on the hunt for oil is not.

  3. Islam is a primitive, evil religion which has no place among civilised people. Tunisia is a country where gay sex is endemic. It is difficult to avoid being plagued there by young men who want sex with other men.

    1. Keith Farrell 6 Jun 2012, 8:02pm

      Tounis, what are you some evel bigot.
      Look at how you and uyour religion treat people. You have no honor and no humanity

  4. DJ Sheepiesheep 6 Jun 2012, 7:50pm

    Actually, Amanullah De Sondy does exist. Google him, then p1ss off.

  5. This site could certainly do without the seriously mentally ill. Religious faith is a mental illness, and this is particularly true of the deranged Tounsi.

  6. Keith Farrell 6 Jun 2012, 7:53pm

    Remind me never to visit any Islamic country. my money can rather be spent in any country which gives us equal rights and at the moment there are only 10, the USA is not on of the 10, shame, the land of the (free) opressed and bigoted

    1. I am sure if you agree to stay away from our countries and stop trying to turn us all to Islam we will stay away from your desert. One of your wives wants you…. you better run

      1. The thing is we can stay away from him, he can stay away from us – but what about LGBT people in his “country” (which may well be somewhere in the UK, US or Europe given how trolls work – he probably is no more in Tunisia or any other Arab state that I am!).

        If he is in Tunisia or similar, then do his own fellow LGBT countrymen not deserve equality too?

        1. Rachel Haytread 7 Jun 2012, 9:01pm

          Stu sweetheart, it’s all very well calling for hateful and vile posts to be removed but it makes it awfully hard for readers to follow the discussion if said posts are removed. The fact that a post has received numerous negative votes and been reduced to a one-line entry should be sufficient. Censorship, in the form of deleting offensive posts, does nothing to improve matters.

          I want to know if people hate us and the reasons why they feel this way. Responding with abuse, calling then trolls or whatever does nothing to further our understanding of why they hate so fervently. Let their posts remain so all may see their shameful outbursts. By all means censure their litanies of hate but don’t censor them.

          Love Rachel xxx

  7. Poor Tounsi. Get him into a
    lunatic asylum!

    1. Homophobia is usually strongest in those who repress their own homosexuality or are in denial about it.

      Is that the case with you Tounsi, or is it so deeply repressed that you become almost violent in your response?

      1. In research across the University of Rochester and University of Essex published in April 2012 it was found that those individuals who are most hostile toward gays and hold strong anti-gay views may themselves have same-sex desires, albeit undercover ones. Richard Ryan, a professor of psychology at the University of Rochester (who led the study) said “Sometimes people are threatened by gays and lesbians because they are fearing their own impulses, in a sense they ‘doth protest too much,’”

        This inner conflict can be seen in some high-profile cases in which anti-gay public figures are caught engaging in same-sex acts, the researchers say. For instance, evangelical preacher and anti-gay-marriage advocate Ted Haggard was caught in a gay sex scandal in 2006. And in 2010, prominent anti-gay activist and co-founder of conservative Family Research Council George Rekers was reportedly spotted in 2010 with a male escort rented from Rentboy.com. According to news reports, the escort confirmed

      2. Prof Ryan also found in the study that “… it appears that sometimes those who would oppress others have been oppressed themselves, and we can have some compassion for them too, they may be unaccepting of others because they cannot be accepting of themselves.”

        This study was one of a number that in the last few years have demonstrated there is a strong link between homophobia and repression of orientation.

      3. A very common argument raised by those protesting against the decriminalization of homosexuality runs something like this: “If you allow men to have sex with men on the principle that what you do in the privacy of your home is no one’s business, what next? Sex with animals?” It surprises me that such logic isn’t automatically refuted by those who think for even five minutes. But to those who persist in this inane vein, here’s why it’s a foolish comparison.

        Bestiality is different type of crime – namely cruelty to animals. Doing what you want in the privacy of your home doesn’t extend to the freedom of indulging in private abuse. So this particular crime has nothing to do with homosexuality which takes place in private between consenting adults.

        The whole “against the order of nature” is a specious argument. Those who indulge in it, should stop brushing their teeth for starters. And here’s the kicker – homosexuality is natural. Animals happily engage in gay sex without our prejudices

      4. against such unions.

        And that gurgling sound you hear is this particular argument of the anti-gay crowd getting flushed down the toilet.

    2. He craves on the attention. Don’t feed trolls.

  8. It is likely to be full of Islamists.

  9. Bob is probably right. What Tounsi really wants is a big cock up his arse.

  10. Interesting man the minister for “Human Rights” in Tunisia. Perhaps could be more accurately portrayed as the minister for ensuring human rights are denied in Tunisia!

    He began his political activities in 1984 when he was 16 years old. That same year, Dilou was arrested and subsequently prohibited from attending any public school, due to his participation in the popular “Bread Uprising.”

    Dilou is a graduate of the law school in Sousse, where he was active with the Student’s Union (UGET). During the week of his graduation in 1991, he was sentenced to spend ten years in prison, along with a colleague of his in the Student’s Union.

    Dilou is also a lawyer who is well-known for defending political activists accused of being Islamist.

    In February 2012, he criticised freedom of the press. He later added that freedom of expression and strikes were a privilege, not a right. He also decided to remove the police from the campus of Manouba University in Manouba, where students have been

    1. demonstrating to wear the niquab.

      In a letter of 23 February, the Amnesty urged Samir Dilou, Minister of Human Rights and Transitional Justice to retract comments made on 4 February in which he said homosexuality was not a human right and was a perversion that needed to be treated medically.

      Speaking in response to questions regarding a new gay magazine in Tunisia, Samir Dilou also said that “freedom of expression has limits. They [gay, lesbian and bisexual people] must respect the red lines that are defined by our culture, religion and heritage.”

      “These comments are extremely disappointing, especially coming from the very person who should be ensuring that the human rights of all Tunisians are protected,” said Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.

      “These are not just words. Condoning discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation or gender identity is a blank check for the most serious human rights

    2. violations.”

      “The Minister must retract his statements and speak up in defence of the human rights of all Tunisians.”

      Chakib Darouiche, the press attaché of the Ministry of Human Rights and Transitional Justice, has confirmed that Samir Dilou, the Tunisian Human Rights Minister, stands behind the controversial statements he made concerning homosexuality during an interview conducted with talk-show host Samir Wafi on February 4th.

      “Dilou believes that Tunisia’s distinctiveness as an Arab-Muslim society must be respected. We are not inciting anybody against homosexuals,” Darouiche explained.

      During the interview Dilou stated, in agreement with Wafi, that sexual orientation is not a human right, but is rather a perversion that requires medical treatment. The comments have sparked frustration within Tunisia’s LGBT community and among human rights activists.

    3. How can such an ignorant fool who is determined to deny human rights to many hold the position responsible for upholding human rights?

      It demonstrates that the Tunisian government have no respect for human rights!

    4. However, Human Rights Watch do point to some improvements in Tunisia:

      “Since ousting its autocratic president in January 2011, Tunisia has opened political space and held relatively free and fair elections. It advanced human rights by adopting a pluralist election law, joining the International Criminal Court and removing almost all its reservations on accepting international standards on women’s rights. It has freed media outlets from draconian restrictions and allowed people to create and join political parties and to demonstrate peacefully. However, surviving repressive provisions in the press and penal codes are still used at times in political trials and reforms to create an independent judiciary are moving too slowly.”

      However, there has been some examples of Islamist approaches in Tunisia “The seven-year prison terms handed down on March 28, 2012 to two Tunisians for publishing writings perceived as offensive to Islam are examples of the need to repeal repressive laws dating

      1. to the Ben Ali era. One of the men, Ghazi Ben Mohamed Beji, published an excerpt in July 2011 entitled, “The Illusion of Islam,” taken from an essay he wrote on http://www.scribd.com, a free “social publishing” website. In the introduction, he says his intent is to show “the ugly face of Islam.” The essay satirizes aspects of the Prophet Muhammad’s biography, crudely deriding his sexual life. The other man, Jaber Ben Abdallah Majri, published photos on his Facebook page containing caricatures of the Prophet drawn from Beji’s book, along with satirical writings about Islam and the Prophet.

        “As long as these repressive Ben Ali-era laws are on the books, authorities will have the temptation to use them whenever politically convenient,”

        Now, if the shoe was on the other foot – some people would accuse them of prosecuting hurt feelings!

  11. I think “Tounsi” is heading for a serious IP address ban at this rate.

    Such hateful people are as much victims of their social programming as everyone else is a victim of their toxic egos.

    Instead of getting angry with his remarks, let’s hope that his future brings some enlightenment and kindness into his heart. And let’s let his behaviour remind us of how many *good* people we are so lucky to have in our lives.

    But that doesn’t mean no IP address ban ….

    Moderators? :)

    1. Paddyswurds 6 Jun 2012, 9:04pm

      He must be finished wanking now so he is away. bet he will be back soon as he needs another wank, isn’t that right Tounsi dear…..or have you simply run out of KY?

    2. Oh yes Gazza – multiple post deletions have now occurred ;-)

      One would hope IP address ban.

      Increased measures of accountability on postings too with report function and verification of email addresses.

      PN seem to be taking action – and are also co-operating with a police investigation into the harassment and hate crimes of one of the trolls.

      There will be such a schadenfreude moment in relation to the trolls too!

      1. That’s all very good news, Stu. Pleased about those outcomes.

        I was wondering whether Tounsi might even have been another nom de plume for the “(Bottom) Inspector General” (anyone ever read Viz? ;) )

        So good that it’s possible for PN to stick a cork in their IP address channel, even if they are in need of a cork in another (cranial) orifice as well.

        What is also good news is that PN can identify IP addresses so easily, should the Police ever make a request.

        1. Rest assured the police already have some IP addresses from PN

  12. I hope this doesn’t sound flippant, but I think it boils down to the arse thing. That and the ‘shame’ of sex. Perhaps a recognition of the need for sex education – for ALL – that isn’t limited to biology is required. When people are better informed then its harder to discriminate. Well, that’s my current standpoint.

  13. Oh, it didn’t occur to me that Tounsi was a troll. Yes, best ignored completely. Sorry, I didn’t do that, but will now.

  14. I think the tell tale sign about Tounsi being a troll is his infantile abuse.

    I think he should be dealt with similarly to the Inspector and others!

    However, I do say this with a word of caution. There will on occasion be some who come to sites such as PN who are seeking to debate and appear homophobic (due to their partly repressed orientation) but subconsciously are seeking genuine debate and to tackle the issues that they are battling with internally.

    Now, I am not saying for one moment that we should accept or tolerate the abuse, homophobia or similar – but we need to take care not to assume that everyone who disagrees with us is a troll.

    1. B L Z Bub 6 Jun 2012, 9:22pm

      Religions are not compatible with human rights.

      Not in any way whatsoever.

      Stop apologising for them

      They represent brain washed crap as abused to them in their childhood.

      That is how these wealthy organisations perpetuate themselves.

      My Civil partner suffers from catholicism and it is a day by day fight to try and get it out of him.

      Only last week he went to Ardrossan Scotland to bury his dead dad. (68 )

      A man who was severely ex-catholic only to bury the old geez via a priest.

      A situation he would have hated.

      THe indoctrination is SO complete.

      I have actually went to a lawyer in order to ensure that I get a humanist burial
      against my Civil Partners holy advise. Such is the brainwashing.

      Even though, he knows the “intrinsicly disordered” state as advised by his holy see, it still lives within him, having experienced it since birth.

      Again. Such is the brainwashing of religions.

      1. You completely misinterpret what I mean.

        If I have been unclear I apologise.

        Lets start from the point of me agreeing that religious indoctrination is never, ever, an excuse or legitimate reason for any form of hatred.

        I do recognise though that there are LGBT people of all faiths and they are not indoctrinated in the way of hate.

        I also recognise that there are some people who were once homophobic and then began to realise where they were wrong, and my point is that some of those people may come to PN out of genuine desire to learn more but through self hatred (usually caused by indoctrination) they may appear to be troll-like. We need to recognise that not all trolls are the same. That does not mean legitimising what they say – but recognising that our actions may prevent their accepting of their own orientation.

        Never ever would I support or seek to excuse homophobia – anyone who regularly contributes to or reads PN would know that about me.

    2. No I prefer to have sex with my boyfriend who is able to consent. Not an animal who can not.

      You might prefer to rape or abuse humans or animals – don’t judge me by your own standards of behaviour.

    3. To the best of my knowledge homosexuals have not earned the nickname camel jockeys. How ever nasty the term may be there must be some reason for Arabs being labelled such.

    4. Clearly you speak from personal experience there, Tounsi.

  15. Is it coincidence that the less developed and progressive a country is the greater the homophobia?

    1. B L Z Bub 6 Jun 2012, 9:29pm

      Try Italy.

      Vatican.

      The largest danger to all human life that ever existed.

      80 odd year old allegedly celibate men, telling billions how to live their lives.

      The Vatican in disorder as the popes “butler” spilled the beans as to their
      corruption.

      Why would GODS representative have a butler.?

      Why is the Vatican worth Billions.

      Why is this POPE telling Africans that condoms CAUSE Aids.

      Im sure that taking sexual advice from an 80 odd year old celibate who is surrounded by men 24 hours a day is usefull male female sexual advise.

      This affront to humanity needs to be ended.

      It is killing people.

      1. B L Z Bub 7 Jun 2012, 9:11am

        Rant Rant Rant.

        End of Rant.

        That’s better.

        1. Rachel Haytread 7 Jun 2012, 8:32pm

          Better out than in. Bless you my child, oops, sorry…

  16. Lumi Bast 6 Jun 2012, 9:38pm

    The US, UK, and any other countries with freedom of religion needs to make sure no aid is sent there. How homophobia countries are in the UN baffles me. You can’t expect anything less from a country ruled by Islam

    1. Lumi Bast 6 Jun 2012, 9:38pm

      need*
      homophobic*

      1. Sodom was a fictional story so that saying is pointless. And there is the same percentage of gay people there where you are, wherever that is, as there is here

  17. Lumi Bast 6 Jun 2012, 9:47pm

    Tounsi is a name in Islamic regions, that explains it

    1. Lumi Bast 6 Jun 2012, 9:58pm

      Okay, reading some more comments I see he is Arab. And he’s most likely Muslim

      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
      Anyone that believes in a book that evil is sad

      1. And so are transphobics.

        1. It’s strange how much you’re like the homophobic bigots you see fit to judge. You even have that same paranoid state of mind. For them it’s the Homosexual agenda. To you it’s Trans cult. There is no cult dear, it’s just that, unlike you, we all understand that it’s the LGBT community and appreciate what our T brothers and sisters have achieved for us as part of that community

      2. Ben Foster 6 Jun 2012, 10:06pm

        People will keep pointing that out until you get the message, Lumi. This website is for all forms of LGBT, not just the ones you choose.

        1. LGB and T are separate things. Sexual orientation. Gender identity. Not related.

          And being against enabling mental illnesses is something to be proud of, it’s not sad at all. What’s sad is people enabling them, and their supporters, especially the ones that bully and threaten people

          1. DJ Sheepiesheep 6 Jun 2012, 10:24pm

            You bully trans folk every time you seek to exclude the T from LGBT.

          2. No, I’m just stating reality. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things. They should be kept that way

          3. DJ

            Its really odd, some bigots appear to be really nice people (as long as you avoid the subject matter that lights their fury!).

            Lumi seems lovely as long as you avoid trans issues.

            Not going to happen on a LGBT website! Sorry, Lumi but Pink News (whether you like it or not) advertises and markets itself as an LGBT news outlet.

            Its sad that bigots (of whatever type) are blind to their own bigotry and blinkered to any reasonable argument that confronts them about their own views.

            Lumi, I agree with many things you say that are not trans related. I find your transphobia ignorant, bigoted and damaging.

          4. It’s not LGBT no matter how many people say it. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things. The only non sexual orientation related people that should be in our community are intersex people, because there is nothing wrong with being intersex, nothing harmful

            It’s not ignorant. What’s ignorant is enabling mental disorders. Bigoted? Yes, and damn proud, I’m not changing my views on this. Damaging? LOL. Not even close. Transsexuality is what’s damaging.

          5. No darling, bigotry is what is damaging.

          6. You’re right Lumi. The whole world and it’s dog have known our community as LGBT for years until you turned up. From now on we shall follow your bigotry and forget our Trans brothers and sisters who helped get this community to where we are today on your say so.

          7. This is touching on an issue that has divided opions in the LGBT community for years.

            Conservative GLB Members would side with a suggestion that isolates the T people.

            However to isolate Trans people you go against the very nature of the LGBT movement. LGBT was started as a freedom of expression of sexuality and gender because even though the complex intricacies of being Trans are rarely understood by the generic str8 community, a born male transgendered person who identifies as female and is attracted to men is often stereotyped into being Gay by the generic Str8 community.

            The name LGBT is still open to revisions and there are talks among the community to rename LGBTQ. The q standing for Queer or sometimes jokingly referred to as ‘Questioning’. The term would categorise anyone who does not identify as Gay Lesbian Bisexual or Trans.

            But I simply say that if you are getting wrapped up in whether or not to include T in the title then you have become a victim of politics and you have

          8. forgotten what LGBT is about, its about community its about togetherness and above all else its about discarding the stereotypes and prejudices and the labels other people place upon us not fighting over what letter in the name labels us.

          9. You stating your bigotted opinion as fact is damaging. Damaging directly to trans people and damaging to the LGBT community who stand together who witness such uneducated bigotry from one of it’s own. LGBT people have earned you the rights you enjoy today. Do you denounce these as Trans people helped earn you them? Will you refuse SSM as Trans folk fought for it? I don’t think so somehow

          10. Could you explain what homosexuality even means without using the word “sex” or “gender” ? The definitions of L, G and B don’t even make sense if you disregard that we have different sexes and genders so they kinda have to go together with gender identity issues. Hence, LGBT makes sense.

          11. Homosexuality means attraction to people of the same sex, there’s no other definition for it. We have female, male, and intersex. We have homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, and asexual.

            Sexual, physical, emotional/mental, romantic attraction
            and
            transsexuality are WAY different

          12. LGBT people have earned you the rights you enjoy today. Do you denounce these as Trans people helped earn you them? Will you refuse SSM as Trans folk fought for it? I don’t think so somehow

          13. Lumi, even if you want to say that technically sexuality and gender identity are two different things there is no escaping the fact we face many of the same prejudices from many of the same sources. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. We achieve more as a community together than we could hope to achieve apart.

          14. See, Lumi, you couldn’t explain anything about sexual orientation without referring to sex or gender.

            LGBT makes sense. You don’t like it. I don’t care whether you do or not. I do care about your transphobia. When you attack another human being who is part of one of our communtiies – your actions impact on the wider community, and that disgusts me.

        2. Trans people didn’t do all the work. LGBs + crossdressers did most of it. Stop over glorifying a cult

          1. I never said they did. You can see my other reply for more details though dear

          2. So, you can’t justify your bigotry against trans people – so you resort to name calling – a “cult” eh …

            Cult super heroes for all some of them have done to advance LGBT rights and integration perhaps?

            Cult is a strong and courageous word.

            Although, I suspect your theist background has a somewhat negative and different perspective – but then you seem keen to damage trans people and thats sad and disappointing.

          3. There were you? Or do you just not understand the term community? When one takes it, the community takes it. And only by standing together did those before us of our community get to where we are today. If our LGBT brothers and sisters before us had taken your view then I dread to think where we could have ended up because I can assure you, it wouldn’t be where we are today

          4. The term LGBT is intended to emphasize a diversity of “sexuality and gender identity-based cultures” and is sometimes used to refer to anyone who is non-heterosexual or cisgender instead of exclusively to people who are homosexual, bisexual, or transgender.

            Nothing reflects this growing transformation of the gay rights movement into the sexual minority movement than the use of acronyms to describe this group. What once was known simply as the gay community became the lesbian and gay community, followed by the addition of the bisexual community and then the transsexual community. Obviously too long a term to say, it quickly became an acronym, the LGBT community.

            The initialism LGBT saw occasional use in the US and UK from about 1988. Not until the 1990s did it become common to speak of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people with equal respect. Although the LGBT community has seen much controversy regarding universal acceptance of different member groups (bisexual and

          5. transgender individuals, in particular, have sometimes been marginalized by the larger LGBT community), the term LGBT has been a positive symbol of inclusion. Despite the fact that LGBT does not nominally encompass all individuals in smaller communities, the term is generally accepted to include those not identified in the four-letter acronym. Overall, the use of the term LGBT has, over time, largely aided in bringing otherwise marginalized individuals into the general community.

            The LGBT community has been referred to as “the last great minority”. How true that is!

            One issue I agree with Peter Tatchell about is that to separate the transgender movement from the LGB would be “political madness”.

          6. Rachel Haytread 7 Jun 2012, 8:40pm

            Stop it all of you. Right now! Lesbian? Gay? Bisexual? Transgender? You are all of my brothers and sisters and I will fight to the end to protect all of us. We have enough enemies without turning on each other. Grow up and start spreading some love.

          7. Thanks, Rachel

            We agree on a lot – but not everything – but I value our right to disagree with one another, and of course that would not (or should not) stop us defending each other.

            LGBTQ or whatever – we have a lot of support to give each other!

      3. Nope. I just hate Islam because it’s evil, brainwashing, misogynistic, homophobic, and violent among many things. You should read the Skeptics Annotated Quran. What I was doing is making an observation that your hate comes from your religion and where you live :)

      4. By the way, I have zero issues with Arabs, just Muslims

  18. The clue about Tunisia’s ruling party is in the name “Ennahda”. This was the Islamic “renaissance” or “awakening” of the 19th Century to which political Islam as we know it today owes its existence. The word “renaissance” is misleading. The Renaissance in Christian Europe was a leap ahead into modernity drawing inspiration from the Ancient Greeks (with which the Byzantines and Arabs in fact had far stronger historical ties than Europeans).

    The Nahda was inherently inward-looking and sought to return Islam to how it was imagined to be before the arrival of the Abbasids to the Arabian peninsula in 8th Century. Political Islam has since made no steps to move on from this reactionary tendency. There have been modernist scholars in Islam such as Ali Shariati and Mahmoud Taha, but they remain unpopular among Islamists.

    The least we can say is that Tunisia is now more of a democracy. Open societies with the rule of law are more amenable to radical change than dictatorships, however secular.

  19. GingerlyColors 7 Jun 2012, 6:45am

    So much for the Arab Spring then! A year ago one of my fellow correspondents disagreed strongly with my view that the Arab Spring will be followed by an Islamic Winter. I pointed out that Iran had it’s ‘Spring’ way back in 1979 and certainly is not a gay paradise. I’m afraid that Winter has descended upon Tunisia. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

    1. You are absolutely right. It’s difficult to repress optimism when seeing such events as the Arab Spring, though the background cries of “Allahu Akhbar” in TV reports should probably bring thoughts of an ensuing “Islamic” Winter to mind.

      A parallel that comes to mind is the Russian revolution of 1917: a time of great hope with a sense of liberation, (marked incidentally by the decriminalisation of homosexuality). Then came the corrupt, authoritarian and murderous Communist state (which incidentally recriminalised homosexuality).

      I recall Camus writing that he was pessimistic regarding humanity, but optimistic regarding the individual person. It seems increasingly likely that political transformation fails when individuals have not transformed on a personal level first. I think that’s why the transformation in individual thinking brought about by the LGBT equality movement, the women’s movement, and the anti-racism movement, have had such a beneficial effect on society in general.

  20. So these governments lead by religious leaders want to violate other people’s human rights and other people’s freedom of religion but they don’t want you burning Korans. Sounds pretty hypocrtical and not very enforceable.

  21. Thank You Pink News for responding to the vile trolls and deleting their posts.

    Thank you for introducing verification of email addresses and for returning the report function.

    None of this limits responsible debate or freedom of speech used with responsibility.

    1. Rachel Haytread 7 Jun 2012, 8:42pm

      Hello Stu, sweetheart. Long time no talk. How about that Lumi Bast? Tut tut.
      Love you lots, Rachel xxx

      1. Hey
        How you doing?
        If you didnt see the things that were written before they were removed by the vile hate filled trolls – then I think, even you, would agree, a level of redaction/protection (or call it censorship if you must) was appropriate.
        As for Lumi – aaargh!
        Stu x

  22. Why have a human rights minister if you have no human rights ?

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