It is time to set the gays free in America and stop oppressing them and making them slaves to a religious system of hate. You know who the haters are, they are the ones who hate.
To set them free? Gays are hardly in chains. One does not doubt that there is further measure for the equality but the comparison with blacks who really were in chains is overly romanced.
Glad your life is so rosy and free of oppression, de Villiers.
That is not the same for every LGBT person and the comparison with racial inequality is clearly made out.
Usually theists are those who try to deny or disguise this because of fear of threats to their own power base.
I would doubt that most gay people in the America are in chains or are slaves in the same manner as black slaves were. There is no equal marriage in the UK or the France and yet my life is, largely, rosy and free of oppression, as you say.
This is a very positive message. Most encouraging. The US is catching up.
Marvellous to see that the snowball continues to roll.
Its unstoppable. These are the times when LGBT people will become free in many more nations and be given the respect and equality that we deserve as human beings.
Seriously though, 34% still think sexual orientation can be changed?!
These people need to be educated badly.
Need to be educated badly? I cannot work out if you are for or against this article; do you mean that they need to be well educated or badly educated?
I think Emily means “badly in need of education”, de Villiers.
I have said below that I could not understand the sentence or understand whether it was an post-modern statement against the article or a positive one for it. My English is generally good – but I really could not understand the sentence and the combination of the question and exclamation marks further confused the meaning for me.
I find these figures a tad inconsistent when 51% of Americans still believe in creationism and that the earth is only 6000 years old. I mean like really?
The gay rights movement has won Americans’ hearts and minds. The tide has turned. Opponents can try, but they can’t push it back.
This change is the result of two overlapping trends. First, is the dramatic change in attitudes over generations. Support for gay marriage is much higher among younger Americans. A Pew Research Center poll conducted in April found that 30% of Americans born between 1928 and 1945) support same-sex marriage. Among Americans born between 1946 and 1964 — the baby-boom generation — 39% favor same-sex marriage. Among so-called Generation X — those born between 1965 and 1980 — 50% support legalization of gay marriage. Among Americans born after 1981, 63% believe that gay marriages should be legal.
Second, and equally important, many Americans have, like Obama, changed their views about same-sex marriage and other issues regarding gays and lesbians. Many people who were born in the 1940s through the 1960s have been forced — by the rise of the gay rights
movement and changes in the broader culture — to struggle with attitudes towards homosexuality that they once took for granted. The Pew survey shows significant shifts in opinion within each age cohort. For example, since 2001 support for same-sex marriage has increased from 23% to 30% among those born between 1928 and 1945, and from 32% to 39% among the baby-boomers born between 1946 and 1964.
The Pew survey found that overall support for same-sex marriage has increased from 35% in 2001 to 47% this year, while opposition has dropped from 57% to 43%. (Ten percent had no opinion). A national Gallup poll conducted earlier this month found that 50% of Americans support same-sex marriage and 48% opposed. This is a dramatic change from the 27% of Americans who favored gay marriage in Gallup’s 1996 poll.
Surveys conducted by the Washington Post and ABC News reveal that 52% of Americans now say it should be legal for gay and lesbian couples to marry, up from 37% in 2003.
In the Gallup
poll, 65% of Democrats, 57% of independents, and 22% of Republicans favor same-sex marriages. Among religious groups, 51% of Catholics, 38% of Protestants, and 88% of people with no religious identity support legalization of same-sex marriage.
These poll results indicate that the future belongs to the advocates, not the opponents, of same-sex marriage. Soon, conservative politicians and groups will no longer be able to use gay marriage as a “wedge” issue to stir controversy and win elections.
The battle for gay marriage is often compared with the struggle to end the prohibition against marriage between blacks and whites. In fact, Americans’ attitudes about same-sex marriage changed much more quickly.
As more and more public figures — politicians, entertainers, teachers, judges, journalists, businesspersons, athletes and clergy — acknowledged their homosexuality, TV sitcoms began to have openly gay characters, and businesses began to appeal to gay consumers, stereotypes were
shattered. In 2002, the New York Times began to publish announcements of same-sex civil unions and weddings.
As advocates began to put specific issues on the agenda, public support increased for such questions as allowing openly gays and lesbians to teach in public schools, providing health benefits for gay partners, permitting gay couples to adopt children, ending anti-sodomy laws, outlawing job and housing discrimination against gays, funding for research to combat AIDS, and imposing penalties for people who commit hate crimes against gays. In 1993, for example, only 44% of Americans believed that gays should be allowed to openly serve in the military, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll. By 2010 — the year that Obama prevailed on Congress to repeal the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” law — 77% approved of gays serving openly in the military.
A growing number of Americans began realizing that they knew gay people. By 2004, 58% of Americans said that had a friend, relative, or
coworker who is gay or lesbian. The last time Gallup asked that question — in 2009 — the number was the same. Gallup discovered that people who know someone who is gay or lesbian are much more likely to support same-sex marriage than people who do not personally know anyone who is gay.
People began to confront their own values and views about a subject that was once taboo in their own lifetimes.
Until the late 1990s, gay marriage wasn’t even an issue, and most pollsters didn’t bother asking the public how they felt about it. (One exception was the Field Poll, which first asked Californians in 1977 if they approved of extending marriage laws to same-sex couples. By a 59% to 28% margin, they said no.)
But eventually the question of gay partnerships — civil unions and marriage — emerged as a topic of public debate and private conversations in every corner of the country. Not surprisingly, in the past decade, support for legalizing gay partnerships has skyrocketed. Initially,
the idea of civil unions broke the comfort zone barrier. Americans are still more supportive of civil unions than of gay marriage, but the positive trend for both is indisputable.
Legalization of gay marriage depends not only on public opinion but also on the willingness of politicians and judges to tackle the issue. Gay marriage is now legal in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, New Hampshire, New York and Washington, D.C.
Gay rights supporters know that for public opinion to influence public policy, it has to be mobilized. A vocal minority can have disproportionate influence if they are well-organized — a lesson the Tea Party has learned well.
Given these trends, is there any doubt that a substantial majority of Americans will soon favor gay marriage — even in swing states like North Carolina?
In other words, the time when conservatives can use same-sex marriage as a “wedge” issue is coming to an end. For sure, some politicians — especially in some conservative
states, Congressional districts, and state legislative districts — will continue to find it useful to bash gay marriage in order to win votes. But the days of gay-bashing as a political strategy are numbered.
We’ve seen dramatic changes in public opinion before — on such issues as women’s suffrage, sexual harassment, interracial marriages, racial and sexual discrimination in jobs and housing, women’s roles at home and work, government’s role in protecting the environment, fuel efficiency in cars, and disability rights.
In each case, grassroots movements made a big difference. Their role is to put new issues on the public agenda — to make people think about things they hadn’t thought about before. Initially, this makes people feel uncomfortable. It sometimes even triggers a backlash among some people who resist change. But eventually most people come to accept the reality — and fairness — of new ideas and behaviors. The radical ideas of one generation become the common sense of
When children born this year reach voting age 18 years from now, they will surely wonder how it was even possible that America once deprived gays and lesbians the right to marry. They will take same-sex marriage for granted.
Hopefully, however, they will learn in their history classes and on TV about the grassroots movement that catalyzed the dramatic changes in public opinion, laws and court rulings that made America a more humane country, especially for the married gay and lesbian couples they call their neighbors, friends, aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters, and parents.
Forty something % still believe in creationism, apparently???
They HAVE been educated BADLY. They need educating PROPERLY! :)
Oh. Okay. I could not understand the sentence or understand whether it was an post-modern statement against the article or a positive one for it.
Hmmm. this is good news, I’ve yet to meet even a few of these young adults in person, as I live in a very conservative area currently. This is only good news. More people are supporting equal marriage, more people are becoming atheist. It’s sad when only half the country believes in equal marriage, and when there’s a considerable amount of people that believe in a religion, creationism, that the earth is 6000 years old, that evolution didn’t/doesn’t exist, etc. Oh, and the idiots that think sexual orientation can be changed, ugh
“Oh, and the idiots that think sexual orientation can be changed, ugh”
Lumi. You are in NO position to comment on these people dear. For as long as you point blank refuse to even consider educating yourself on Trans issues then you have no leg to stand on judging others who refuse to reconsider their views on sexual orientation and conversion
Well said, Kris.
OK Lumi. I put this on the mormon thread but I’ll ask it here too. Since you clearly know better than the medical and psychological experts of this world how would you suggest we treat those who suffer from GID?
I wouldn’t know exactly what, as I’m not a psychologist, but I’m assuming counseling and medicine, much like other mental illnesses
Well you’ll forgive me if I take the opinions of those psychologists and medical experts who do know what they’re talking about over those of an uneducated child(I’m only 26 in case you think I’m talking down to you).
And from now on I suggest you refrain from judging those who won’t educate themselves regarding orientation until such time you open your mind to Trans issues. Yes those people are wrong, but your close minded attitude is exactly the same as theirs
The Principle 3 of The Yogyakarta Principles on The Application of International Human Rights Law In Relation to Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity states that “Person of diverse sexual orientation and gender identities shall enjoy legal capacity in all aspects of life. Each person’s self-defined sexual orientation and gender identity is integral to their personality and is one of the most basic aspects of self-determination, dignity and freedom” and the Principle 18 of this states that “Notwithstanding any classifications to the contrary, a person’s sexual orientation and gender identity are not, in and of themselves, medical condition and are not to be treated, cured or suppressed.” According to these Principles, any gender identity of a transsexual or transgendered person is neither “disorder” nor mental illness.
It’s not a mental illness though.
The UK Department of Health regard it as a condition that sometimes requires treatment but not a mental illness. Like all other humans, those experiencing GID or gender dysphoria may encounter mental health problems such as depression or anxiety independent to any issue connected to transgender or intersex status. Those mental health issues may be worsened by those who persecute and demonise due to their own transphobia and prejudices.
“but I’m assuming counseling and medicine, much like other mental illnesses”
The same way ex-gay people try to change sexuality, you mean?
My god, your ignorance and hypocrisy is truly astounding.
Mental illness? It is appalling for you to suggest that transsexual persons suffer from a mental illness – in the same manner as people would suggest that gay persons suffer from a mental illness. It is a recognised condition over which persons have little, if any, will – similar to sexuality.
Gender dysphoria is a recognised condition for which medical treatment is appropriate in some cases. The condition is increasingly understood to have its origins before birth. Research studies indicate that small parts of the baby’s brain progress along a different pathway from the sex of the rest of its body. This predisposes the baby to a future mismatch between gender identity and sex appearance. Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness.
Those experiencing GID or gender dysphoria often do not consider to be “suffering a disorder”. Indeed, gender characteristics are socially constructed and therefore naturally unrelated to biological sex
Lumi – when you write about trans people, I feel as though I am reading the kind of stuff that used to be said about lesbian and gay people only thirty years ago.
That gay and lesbian people are not hated, but that we are pitied, that we need help, as we are disordered in some way, departing from the statistical norm.
Being trans is just as “natural” and “harmless” as being lesbian or gay. I also don’t see why you assume it is any more a “choice” to be trans than it is to be lesbian or gay. Being “trans” does not start at the point when SRT happens.
I have to confess that, when I was younger, I knew very little about being trans, and was unsure what conclusion to come to. But I have no doubt now that the happiness of so many people depends on solid understanding of and support for the rights of trans people: very similar to the predicament of lesbian and gay people.
What is your logical reasoning to say it is not natural?
So you’re not a psychologist yet seem fairly confident about stating what you’ve just said(Presumably picked up from whatever transphobic blog or forum you frequent that you’ve mentined before). I don’t think there’s more can be said that hasn’t already. You are a close minded bigotted hypocritical immature child.
If equal marriage is ever allowed wherever you may happen to be and you find yourself in a position to marry the person of your choice then when you stand there and you say your vows think of this. The only reason you are able to do so is thanks to the efforts of gay, lesbian, bisexual AND TRANS individuals and those who support them. You may think you can overlook them but no matter what it will always be LGBT
Why do you always have to bring sexual orientation into the issue of transgender?
We work together because we have shared experiences and we support one another.
Some trans people are gay and some are not.
You start by saying that you can not change your gender (well thats a debate that can be had!) but then jump into orientation to try and justify your comment. Your comment is neither justifiable, nor is your comparison to orientation relevant.
If you want to follow the “natural” order – don’t brush your teeth – thats not natural – but we do it.
Now, try again. What is YOUR problem with transgender people?
Oh, and many of them act like they’re above LGB people, and their needs are more important.
And speaking of violence, ever heard the saying “Die cis scum!”? Yeah
It’s not Latin.
What is not Latin?
“Die cis scum.” I tried to respond to a post but for some reason the message displayed in this way at the end. I do not know what this phrase means. It is not Latin or German.
I thought it was Latin too at first :D But no, it’s just an insult in English – “Die, cis scum”. Hope that comma helps!
“Murder all cis people.” It’s directed at cis people (people who commit acts of violence against trans people)
Above from internet search
Clearly not all cis people are either scum, violent or transphobic!
Tell me Lumi. Have YOU had these experiences with Trans people? Or, as I suspect, are these just stories you’ve concocted or heard/read elsewhere? Becauise again, you said you aren’t a psychologist yet you seem to think you’re pretty clued up on what you’re saying
So you must be against everything that is unnatural such as medicine and surgery to cure natural illnesses or injuries. Oh, and all this technology you use to spout your bigoted nonsense is completely unnatural – you better stop using it immediately.
More importantly BennieM, if she indeed refuses to accept the T in LGBT then surely she must give up all the current rights she has as an L individual as these were earned by the efforts of the LGBT community. Surely she would not morally wish to accept or enjoy anything earned by those she deems as evil, ill or any other term of bigotry she may wish. Somehow though I doubt that to be the case
I have had these experiences with trans people. I also know people who have had these experiences.
It’s not because it’s unnatural, it’s because it’s damaging. I don’t support when people mutilate their bodies, I don’t support self-hatred, I don’t support playing pretend on something as serious as sex. You need to accept biological reality, not live a complete lie.
LGBT people have earned you the rights you enjoy today. Do you denounce these as Trans people helped earn you them? Will you refuse SSM as Trans folk fought for it? I don’t think so somehow
LGB people, and crossdressers also fought for equal rights and SSM. It isn’t only trans people. Once again the trans cult tries to over glorify itself
That’s a very good point, Kris! I wonder how she’ll answer it – she’ll probably just ignore it!
Lumi has now mentioned having had experiences with trans people. To be honest, I’ve suspected as much for some time from reading her comments. A friend or even girlfriend of hers probably was trans unknown to Lumi and she’s found out and been bigoted towards trans people ever since. Not unlike what happens to some gay people when they come out to family or friends. Pity Lumi can’t see she’s transphobic and no different to the homophobes she hates so much.
So my mum takes 22 different tablets a day and has a permanent insulin pump attached to her. Lots of chemicals. Unnatural arguably, to use your argument. Should we reject this because its “unnatural”?
No Lumi dear. Unlike you I don’t seperate them.
Your rights, your ability to live your lifeas you do and your possible ability to marry the woman you love in future are down to the efforts of the LGBT community that has gone before you and that exists today. So my question to you is since you are so willing to cast aside part of that community then do you also cast aside everything that that community has fought for as part of that community is T. Or do you selfishly accept your rights with absolutely no appreciation for how and who helped earn you them?
Lumi, you DID use the words “not natural” about trans people in an earlier comment in this very reply thread, so don’t try to claim you didn’t when we shoot that argument down.
What you should reject is people mutilating their bodies and taking harmful drugs to enable a mental illness
It is not natural, but that’s not the only reason I don’t support it
How is it not natural and pray tell what are your other reasons?
Ahh see now you’re just trying to move away from my question. Not feel able to argue the point do we? It’s ok Lumi. We all know the answer. You’re a selfish brat who will happily accept the rights you currently enjoy even though the reason you get to enjoy those rights is that prior to you being born and becoming the selfish bigot that you are today men and women identifying as LGB AND T came together and stood side by side to get those rights. You can overlook this fact all you like, thankfully the rest of us appreciate what all our LGBT brothers and sisters went through to get us where we are today
It’s not natural because sex is a biological reality. You’re female, male, or intersex. That’s it. Accept it. Stop being a special snowflake, you shouldn’t be enabling a mental illness, you’re insane if you’re mutilating your body because you’re confused about your sex
“you’re insane if you’re mutilating your body because you’re confused about your sex”
No, insanity is saying the same tiresome nonsense over an over again despite being shown facts to the contrary.
Go get the mental health help you need Lumi, you’re an travesty and an insult to all gay people.
Thats the same untrue and false reason you keep coming up with – that is wrong. You said you had other reasons for your transphobia. You have been asked to explain them. You haven’t – perhaps because there is no reasonable explanation or logic to your transphobia?
“I have to confess that, when I was younger, I knew very little about being trans.”
Ditto. But being part of an LGBT community brought me to a fuller understanding. That is WHY we are a community who share common issues.
Sorry, but you are clueless! I suggest you begin to study human embryology,genetics,endocrinology,neuro biology then maybe you will understand that being GID is NOT so much a psychiatric condition as it is more of a medical condition that is recognized by the AMA. It is a variant of nature with biological components that are exhibited in many other species on the planet.The psychiatric aspects of the condition are primarily due to societal and institutional ignorance,marginalization,ostracization, emotional and physical violence directed at the patient with the condition.This can result in the patient suffering with serious clinical depression and even suicidal ideation’s requiring psychiatric intervention .
People used to widely believe that being gay was a mental illness. Thankfully that is no longer the case outside of the Christian thinking. Psychiatric organisations all over the world no longer consider homosexuality a mental disorder. But now you, with your right to hold your head up as a lesbian do the same to trans people. Shame, shame, shame on you.
I’ve experienced doctors in the field of psychiatry/psychology tell me that being bisexual is a mental illness as recently as eleven years ago, actually, and there was no mention of religion.
Interesting… 54% of Washington state in another PN article… now 54% of Americans support Equal Marriage… is 54% the magic number that pollsters have suddenly hit on?
It nicely means “more than half” which leaves a nice margin to save face if polls are correct to within + – 10%! lets hope the “not polled” are the pro + percent of the voters.
It’s a positive percentage of pro equality Americans I hope it begins a landslide that continues to transform the landscape of America on a Federal level for all LGBT Americans.
It is the young people who will be running the country one day. With a comfortable three-quarters of young Americans supporting marriage equality the days of DOM, One Million Mums and Proposition 8 are numbered. Interestingly how many of those polled were Republican voters.
As a poster above said (and was surprisingly marked down):
“We’ve seen dramatic changes in public opinion before — on such issues as women’s suffrage, sexual harassment, interracial marriages, racial and sexual discrimination in jobs and housing, women’s roles at home and work, government’s role in protecting the environment, fuel efficiency in cars, and disability rights. In each case, grassroots movements made a big difference. Their role is to put new issues on the public agenda — to make people think about things they hadn’t thought about before. Initially, this makes people feel uncomfortable. It sometimes even triggers a backlash among some people who resist change. But eventually most people come to accept the reality — and fairness — of new ideas and behaviors. The radical ideas of one generation become the common sense of the next. When children born this year reach voting age 18 years from now, they will surely wonder how it was even possible that America once deprived gays
and lesbians the right to marry. They will take same-sex marriage for granted. Hopefully, however, they will learn in their history classes and on TV about the grassroots movement that catalyzed the dramatic changes in public opinion, laws and court rulings that made America a more humane country, especially for the married gay and lesbian couples they call their neighbors, friends, aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters, and parents.”
The future is the future of Americans who support, endorse and encourage equality and fairness.
Wow, I think we are actually being moderated. I just saw this after posting a comment!
“Thanks — your comment has been posted!It may take a few minutes to appear here. If this is your first comment on PinkNews.co.uk, check your email inbox to verify your email address.”
No more fiddie kiddler and his nonsense.
There is also a report function and I have noticed a lot of posts disappear.
I wish PN would announce it and make editorial comment – but I am incredibly grateful that they are taking action.
Sadly :( the poll also found that in the age group of 18-34 had the highest percentage of people who thought that a gay person could change there sexual orientation 42% said Yes, 52% said No. However the 35-49 age group only 29% said Yes and 64% said no that a gay person could change there sexuality if they wanted to.
64% said a gay person could NOT change there sexuality. Sorry didn’t notice the typo mistake i made.
So, If the majority aprove gay rights, why are you having so many bad homophobic laws passed
It gets better!