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New York mural compares gay rights in Israel to its neighbours

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  1. Cool. Truth hurts

  2. Stuart Neyton 18 May 2012, 11:33pm

    the same Israel that voted down same-sex and even interfaith marriage just a few days ago?

    I’d rather not be associated with that place thank you. Especially with the theft of Palestine land and the imprisonment and aid-blocking of the people in the Gaza stip.

    1. Shake Spear 18 May 2012, 11:46pm

      Palestine land? Oh, I guess so, because there was never such a thing as a Palestinian state. Pity you don’t monitor all the territory being ruthlessly acquired around the globe by Islam.

      1. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 11:11am

        @Shakey…
        ………..would you care to tell us what countries or territories have been annexed “around the world” by Islam, a religion and not a despotic state like the shameful Israel……

    2. Yeah, the same Israel where gay couples can live as married couples.

      Palestine land? I thought Palestine was inhabited by Jews and Arabs, but I guess Jews can’t claim any right to that land, or to self-rule, right? Only Arabs. But that’s not anti-Jewish at all… of course not.

      The Gaza strip has a border with Egypt, how could Israel ever imprision everyone when it doesn’t control that border? If you would really care about the people in Gaza, you would criticize Egypt’s policy of now allowing any goods in Gaza, not Israel who provides Gaza with electricity, water, food and other goods.

      You’re just one more ignorant racist anti-Israel and anti-semite. We have plenty of them in the 21st century, how sad.

      1. *not allowing

      2. Spanner1960 19 May 2012, 9:07am

        There you go.
        Who said anything anti-Jewish?
        The comments were anti-Israeli.
        I get sick of this sh|t.

      3. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 11:22am

        @RM…
        …. read your own comment and see that you are the racist and anti Semite. The Arabs of Palestine, Semites, were deprived of their lands that they had owned for thousands of years, by the state of Israel in 1947. At the time Israel said and I paraphrase..” they (the Arabs) have owned it for thousands of years and it is still fallow desert, we have it for ten years and we make the desert bloom.” That is the sum total of Israels claim to Palestine.
        Israel has learned nothing from thousands of years of oppression except how to be the oppressor. Shame Israel…. You wonder why the entire world is watching with amazement and anger?

        1. Shake Spear 20 May 2012, 1:31am

          The Arabs of Palestine owned nothing. They were nomads mobilised into a ‘collective’ only after 1947 for the cause of Islamic supremacism. You can’t fool all of the people at any given time.

        2. GOD granted the land of Palestine to the Jew’s. Therefore the Palestinian’s never had any claim to it and it cannot then be classed as stolen. As has been mentioned in another post most Arab’s were nomadic and never ‘owned’ any land. As they say – you never know how much you want something until you can’t have it.

  3. I don’t like this. It ties gay rights issues to a kind of unnecessary tribalistic jingoism. Gay rights are too important to subvert for such a purpose.

  4. Exactly Stuart. Great that Israel is pro-gay but this pales into insignificance to the way they treat the Arabs. As LGBT people we need to be aware of other prejudices in the world and not just fight for our corner.

    1. It wasn’t the Jews who slaughted 52 innocent Londoners on our underground and a bus 7 years ago. Israel is surrounded by violent extremists intent on killing and maiming as many Jewish people as they possibly can – if our country was in that position, our population living in fear of car bombs and gun-toting terrorists we’d defend ourselves in exactly the same way as the Israeli state.

      1. vversatile 19 May 2012, 4:21pm

        How do you propose the Palestinians defend the land that Israel stole from them in 1967 and now illegally occupies. If I’d been waiting 45 years to get my home back I’d be a bit annoyed too.

        You cannot compare the actions of desperate Palestinians towards their oppressors to those of the 4 estremists who carried out the atrocities in London.

        1. Actually, you can. You gave exactly the same excuse Palestinian suicide bombers give. Congratulations.

      2. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 5:00pm

        @thomas.. ..
        . .. … ….Your argument would hold water if the Zionist State of Israel was legitimate, which it certainly isn’t because it came into being by the annexation of another State that of Palestine, and the Palestinians weren’t consulted.

    2. Then you would undoubtedly be happy for the Arabs of the territories under Fatah and Hamas control to go back, be beaten, executed, and other atrocities for daring to even have a relationship with anyone? Hypocrite!

  5. “the Muslim American Civil Liberties Coalition calling it “blatantly divisive.” ”

    Yeah, homophobia is divisive.

  6. How dare anyone point out the truth when the truth is so “divisive.”

  7. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 1:08am

    Better that the Zionist State sort out its appalling attitude to the Palestinian People, who they disenfranchised in 1947 , stole their land and consigned the indigenous people of Palestine to what is nothing more than desert. They are now walled into enclaves like the West Bank and Gaza like prisoners without sufficient food, medical care or dignity of any sort.
    Israel showed last week with the negative vote in the Knesset that it is not a friend to Gay people either, despite what the deluded queens in New York city think or would like us to believe.
    What Israel is doing to the Palestine is exactly parallel to what the British Unionists done to the indigenous Irish in the north of Ireland from 1922 onwards which reached such appalling heights that the British Prime Minister was forced to make a grovelling apology to the Irish people a couple of years ago witnessed by the entire world.. The needs of the Palestinian people are greater than a few Israeli Gays getting wed…..

    1. It saddens me that people like the Jews who went through such atrocities in history are acting this way to people.

      I am all for holocaust remembrance…but if the Israelis don’t start being more inclusive and fair to the Palestinians…there is something wrong with them (as I believe there is now!)

      @Paddyswurds I completely agree with you, in this instance gay marriage is not important because of the blatant disregard for human life. Peace is what needs to be secured first (however hard that may be).

  8. More pathetic pinkwashing.

    Here’s a thought. If you were gay, what would you prefer? Living in a gulf arab state where you would have to hide your sexuality or living in the Occupied Territories being denied elementary rights such as food and water and the very strong possibility you will be murdered by an extreme Jewish settlers or Israeli Defence Force thugs?

    1. Wherever I lived, I would not wish to gain my human rights on the basis of suppressing the human rights of others. It’s really not complicated.

    2. Utter bullcrap.

    3. You fool, GLBT people face being executed IN the territiries by the PA in the West bank and Hamas in Gaza…that is why they flock to Tel Aviv to live and are allowed to do so. The PA openly says it will be Jew ang gay-free. They kill us there…and you champion THEM?

  9. Keep telling the truth until the truth sets you free.

  10. Only Muslims would say it is “Blatantly Divisive.”

    If only they could see the truth for what it is and not how they like it to be.

  11. I don’t get the question “Who would YOU want at your wedding?”

    What does that have to do with LGBT rights? Is it saying all Arabs/Iranians are homophobic and all Israelis are supportive of gay rights? Because it’s not like I’m inviting Benjamin Netanyahu or Mahmoud Ahmedinejad to my wedding if I do get married.

  12. Anti Gay black people and Jews who oppress and drop bombs on Arabs. After all they have been through they have learned nothing. Idiots

  13. I’ll add the Gay right are destroying our credibility. We are seen ad shallow selfish and trying to mimic heterosexual couples rather than being ourselves. I remember fighting people who would say which one is the woman now we seem to want to make marriage the gold standard of Gay relationships and the freaks the old, the disabled, the deaf, the minorities are shunned. The ads show straight acting Gaywhite men who could fit in at a Tory conference. The peoplewho fought at stonewall would not be welcome. Shameful

    1. “straight acting Gay white men”

      I’m not sure what exactly you mean by straight acting, but I have never felt anything in common with the stereotypes of gay men that we grew up with. The only thing apart from my sexuality that separates me from the majority of other white British men is a lack of interest in sports.

      By all means give as much respect to people who are different to the majority in ways other than their sexual orientation, but giving the impression that being gay has to mean being anything else too is sending a confusing message to gay kids who aren’t like that.

    2. de Villiers 19 May 2012, 2:52pm

      That reads like a post from Carrie.

    3. @James! You have a good point. Unfortunately, not a popular one. Prioritising gay marriage does nothing to fight the homophobia that is entrenched in all societies.

  14. The message appears to be ‘support Israel because of its gay-rights how it treats Palistinians is not important’.

  15. I was born in Israel and i am proud of my country. It isn’t perfect, but no country is. It has by far the best gay rights in the middle east! I see the jew haters are out in force on here! You should be ashamed! As for “Palestine” Israel has the right to defend itself from terrorist scum who put it’s country in danger!

    1. Spanner1960 19 May 2012, 9:10am

      Ah right, this ‘danger’ would be kids throwing rocks, so you retaliate with helicopter gunships? Slight overkill I would say.

      1. Spanner1960: Those kids who throw rocks grow up to be men who blow themselves up on packed buses or crowded malls. Everybody has to start somewhere.

        1. Hodge Podge 19 May 2012, 10:07am

          Wow, you’ve actually just tried to justify killing kids.

      2. You know throwing rocks is a lot more dangerous than you suggest. People have been killed on motorways by other people throwing rocks at their cars. It’s no joke.

    2. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 10:54am

      @Robbie…
      …One would have thought that given the history of the Jews, they would have learned something about human rights by now but it would appear that the only thing they have learned is to copy the oppressors. Shame for Shame on the House of David, you have now joined the despots.
      Crying and whinging that those who are appalled by your actions against the Palestinian people is being anti Semitic or anti Jew is pathetic and simply won’t wash any more..
      The Arabs are also Semites, like it or not, and deserve nothing more or less than the Jews, especially in their own homeland….

    3. Well said Robbie – see my reply post, 15 or so comments up, which I wrote a few minutes before reading your comment. I’m as proud of my country (GB) as you are of yours and have no Jewish connexion nor visited Israel yet but I feel solidarity with your situation.

    4. vversatile 19 May 2012, 4:28pm

      Robbie – you’re confusing being ‘anti-semitic’ with being ‘anti the actions the Israeli state’.

      Maybe if Israel stopped occupying the West Bank and the portion of Jerusalem that doesn’t belong to it then the Palestinians wouldn’t be so annoyed.

      Israel is the oppressor in this instance.

    5. I agree with you 100% Funny, the same GLBT people on this thread who hate Israel so much would not even be considered human by the PA and Hamas in the territories under their control, would be beaten, even murdered or executed. And I truly believe they would be surprised when it happened to them! By the people they support…but who hate what they are!

  16. All you haters can rest now.

    Israel is no longer a true democracy, what with a government coalition of 94 out of a parliament of 120, so please treat it as you treat other non democracies (like north Korea, Sudan, China etc) when it comes to human rights violations.

    Which is to say, keep silent.

    1. In WWII Britain also formed a coalition government darling, which is what democracies sometimes do in times of great danger. But then Britain isnt a real democracy either, or??
      Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on your ideas of democracy, or was your comment simply you advertising your lack of understanding?

      1. Basically the largest opposition party (kadima) joined the government on the eve of elections, keeping the right wing government in power.

        The remaining “opposition” consists of:
        11 members of the Arab parties.
        3 members of the ultra liberal party (among them Nitzan Horovitz, the only openly gay MP)
        12 members of the old “left” party, who have suffered from a lack of charismatic leadership for some years now.

        There is nothing to stop the current government from passing any law it d*mn well pleases.

        They are currently talking openly of making it legal for the government to ignore supreme court rulings, making mandatory military service a condition of citizenship and allowing all government bodies to wiretap phones, emails etc of all citizens without a court order.

        And that was just this past week :*-(

        1. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 10:59am

          @Ron..
          …So only a matter of time then to we have Crystalnacht. So so shameful….. The entire world is watching, Israel.

  17. It is only right to put focus on the appalling situation for gays and those who are perceived as gay in arab countries.
    Look at Iraq where death squads are rounding up teenagers suspected of being gay and executing them in the night along with EMO youths. How would you arab apologetics explain away that fact?? Was it the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that made them do it???
    Look at Iran. Hanging gay men, some of them teenagers after torturing them and promising leniency if they reveal their partners identities to the secret police!
    The arabs could have had peace long ago and pushed ahead with development but they refuse to live alongside Israel. They made their own choice, now they live with the consequences.
    The problems of appalling overpopulation in Gaza isnt exactly alleviated by an avarage fertility rate of 12 children per woman…

    1. Hodge Podge 19 May 2012, 10:13am

      so basically “Palestine is nasty, therefore Israel is good”. I don’t have to pick a side, I’ve never been an apologist for Hamas, but I won’t be an apologist for Israel’s foreign policy either.

      “It is only right to put focus on the appalling situation for gays and those who are perceived as gay in arab countries.”

      Who wasn’t doing? Who has being neglecting this issue? Who wasn’t enraged with Iran?

      I haven’t got a clue how to start pushing forward LGBT issues in palestine, but I know Israel needs to stop building illegal settlements, yesterday, if they want any moral authority.

      1. If you are gay, your support – or your life – is not welcome in the territories under PA and Hamas control. So they don’t care what your opinion is because you aren’t human. So knock yourself out.

    2. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 11:03am

      @Martin…
      …. However what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people is as bad or worse because stone throwing children are being murdered by Israeli helicopter gunships. What happens in Arab countries is irrelevant in Israel while it murders those under its control and occupation Shame……

      1. Oh yes because firing lethal projectiles at israeli soldiers and planning suicide bombings equal having a gay haircut, right! Or having a gay haircut is actually more deserving of death right buddy??

        1. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 2:23pm

          @Martin…
          ….The only bit of your comment that was understandable was “right buddy??” The rest made no sense whatever, as no one on this thread was talking about or defending “gay haircuts” Finally I am not your buddy nor could I even contemplate being your buddy as you are clearly a supporter of child murders……

          1. No buddy, you dont get off so easily. You say its worse to fight palestinian terrorists than death squads picking up teenagers perceived as gay in the night and clubbing them to death.

            Your morality is sickening. You are twisted by hate

          2. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 5:10pm

            Killing little children from helicopter gunships v killing gay teenagers (where this happen then) would indicate that you condemn yourself “buddy”

          3. Except that the Israelis do their best not to kill which doesnt really apply to your friends in the death squads. Why dont you go join them? Oh yeah they would kill you…

            I can go to Israel as often as I like. I can even critisize the Israelis in Israel. Try the same with your death squad friends… Oh yeah they took you hostage and have been debating for some time which internet site to post your beheading video on…

          4. israel creates the problem for itself by denying democracy to palestine. israel’s answer to the ‘palestinian problem’ is to erect high walls and create warsaw ghetto enviroment for palestinians

    3. But LGBT rights are human rights, and equal rights are just that, equal. So let’s say, hypothetically, that a nice liberal democracy like Canada, my own country, treats LGBT people fairky, even better than it treats its indigenous/First Nations population. How can LGBT Canadians say they have equal/human rights, when other Canadians are being denied theirs?

  18. I’m not going to make simple generalisations. As we all well know, the situation in the region is complicated as hell. I believe consensus and diplomacy are good policies, and that extremism and totalitarianism are not. People in that region have an enormous amount of baggage that all needs to be sorted out peacefully. It may be unrealistic to hope for, but it’s not wrong to ask.

    As for LGBT rights, credit must be acknowledged where it is true. Israel has more advanced equality mostly because of its High Court decisions. Let every little good thing be something to build upon, even in a sea of pain and discord.

  19. That There Other David 19 May 2012, 11:33am

    Comparing yourself to those worse than yourself is deluding yourself that you’re perfect when you aren’t rather than aspiring to be better. This is equivalent to Spain saying it’s economically strong because its richer than Somalia. Just a complacent placebo to try and convince Israeli supporters their record is better than it actually is.

    How about a mural comparing Israeli LGBT rights to Norway…or Belgium….or Argentina? Those are the countries they should be comparing themselves to, not Saudi Arabia!

    As to who I want at my wedding? Neither deserves an invitation yet. Maybe when Israel gets off its collective backside and starts striving for actual equality I’ll reconsider, but right now they don’t deserve a slice of my wedding cake.

    1. Israel is in the Middle East, not Europe. What you say is bollocks.

  20. I think things like this are important- the truth about the world needs to be spread. So many gay people are completely unknowledgable about the fact that homosexuality is still punishable by execution in several countries of the world.

    I, for one, wouldn’t be able to tell you what rights gay people have in Israel, Egypt, or Iran off the top of my head- and I think it’s great that an effort is being made to educate the world.

    Progress will never be made if people aren’t aware of the problems.

    Cal (eatgaylove.com)

  21. Robert in S. Kensington 19 May 2012, 12:58pm

    Too damned bad if muslims think its ‘blatantly divisive’. There isn’t one islamic country where gays can live openly and free without fear of being tortured or executed. If I had to live in that part of the world, I know where I’d rather be.

    1. i like what you say robert. you’re always on the money.

  22. I can’t believe that the writer of this article at Pink News has not gone to sufficient trouble to unearth a picture of the mural and show us the bloody thing!

    1. Paddyswurds 19 May 2012, 2:34pm

      Who cares, it is totally irrelevant and possibly a ruse to stir even more trouble in the region. What is relevant is that the Zionist state is murdering Palestinian children and depriving the people of liberty and equality, decent food, health care water and other essentials. Why are the deluded queens of New York not erecting murals about that….basic Human rights of children are a lot more important that the marriage rights of a few pampered Israeli gay men, and we as Gay people in the UK who are well housed fed and watered should be standing up for the downtrodden people of Palestine.!! Over 40 comments most of which abhor Israels conduct and still we are getting comments such as your’s….sheesh.

      1. Yeah the gays in israel are doing ok. Pity your palestinian friends have the death penalty for being gay! Try going there with a rainbow flag and offer them your help…
        Theres a reason gay palestinians flee to Israel dont you think?
        Only seriously retarded people insist on helping other people who would execute them for being gay

        1. ‘…Theres a reason gay palestinians flee to Israel dont you think?…’

          According to a report by the Refugee Rights Clinic of Tel Aviv University published in 2008 Israel refuses to weigh requests for asylum by LGBT people fleeing persecution, including LGBT Palestinians.

  23. A photo of the mural itself *would* be nice, PN…

  24. Wow, talk about cherry picking Israel’s human rights record. Let’s just forget about all the other human rights abuses……

    1. Yeah because it’s not like Britain or America have ever done anything against human rights.

      1. That was a pointless answer. Are we CURRENTLY denying four million people freedom of movement, forcing three million into refugee camps, completely denying them political rights, the right to choose their own destiny, demolishing thousands of homes and forcibly evicting them, blocking aid to 1.7 million people and shooting anyone trying to get and above all, sending tanks against little children throwing rocks! Last time I checked, no.

        1. No we are not Jimmy but then we are not surrounded by Hostile countries trying to wipe us off the face of the planet. Nor are we under constant missile attack by extremists in the ‘occupied’ territories. As soon as these people stop firing missiles etc into Israel the better off all Palestinians will be. You see once this stops then Israel will have to stop too. Makes sense.

          1. 20 years ago people were using the exact same excuse to defend apartheid south africa, it too was surrounded by hostile countries wanting to wipe it out and claimed they were a people who entered an “empty” land. Also seeing as they’ve not had a war for forty years and have the world’s most powerful country as an intimate ally. What’s the chances of it happening?
            Israel had the chance to deal with a more moderate palestinian government, but it failed to offer them a fair deal, i.e. an end to the occupation (which has been continuing for 45 years) and an independent state, and the situation has worsened since then. So not too surprising that they voted Hamas in. As for terrorists, wasn’t israel set up by the stern gang?

      2. Hodge Podge 21 May 2012, 4:43pm

        Oh believe me I have zero respect for the UK government either. It’s possible for everyone to be crap at once.

  25. So the argument is that “our” LGBT people are more free than “their” LGBT people? Seriously?? What difference can that make? If some Israeli residents have more rights than others, how can any Israelis have “equal” rights? Until an Israeli citizen has only the rights of a citizen of the occupied territories (people governed by the same administration, remember), regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, no one in Israel has “equal” rights. So, aren’t all Middle Eastern countries in the same boat, where privileged elites have more rights than the rest of the population? So “their” people are just as not-free as “our” people.

  26. Seems about right. While it hints at pinkwashing from other issues, I will never militate for someone that would see me persecuted or even worse. Sorry if I refuse to feel sorry for all the wrongs in the world without preconditions, but alas the truth takes us out of a black/white comfort zone.

    1. You say it hints at pinkwashing for other issues… you know that Israel’s been pushing gay rights forward since the early 80s / late 70s, WAY before anyone even noticed in the outside world… Israel’s support of its LGBT populations isn’t a PR stunt… it’s a fact of life here. And frankly you’re right. Why would any gay person want to push the cause of people who despise them? I just don’t understand some people. None of us do here!!

  27. I’m a gay man. I live in Israel. This is completely correct – try walking down the street hand in hand with another man in Tel Aviv; nobody will even bat an eyelid.

    Gay rights in Israel are almost perfect, with the exception that you can’t have any civil marriage, whether straight or otherwise. To get married, you have a religious ceremony (with a non Orthodox rabbi) if you’re Jewish, and then go sign some papers in Cyprus, then fly back. And then you get the same rights as any married couple in Israeli law.

    We enjoy a great life being gay here, I love living in Israel and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. Sure we have our issues, Arabs don’t get the same public funding, but they’re not that bad off. They also like living here because they know they have the same public services, free healthcare, education etc. And well, if you’re gay, it’s practically heaven compared to the hell surrounding us…

  28. Oh, and by the way, Tel Aviv Pride is in 2 weeks. And it’s going to be HUGE!! :)

  29. So the Muslim civil liberties guy says it’s divisive to state the truth that Israel treats gay people well, and that Arab states don’t?

    Well if even the Muslim Civil Liberties guy in America doesn’t want to expose the anti-gay tyranny that goes on across the Muslim world, they may well have a problem…

    And thanks commenters for all your input, but it’s clear where I’ll be spending my next holiday with my boyfriend…

  30. I have read the comments of the Israel-bashers and find them pathetic, but very much what is to be expected from the British. You fail to realise that gay rights in Israel and in Israeli administered parts of the territories do not only apply to gay Jews…but to thousands of GLBTQI Arabs, who are Christian, Muslim, Druze, Bahai, who have sought sanctuary in Israel and share the same rights denied to them in all of the surrounding countries and in the PA and Hamas areas of the territories, where they face beatings, murder and execution.

    You people are pathetic. Go to the people you support and see what they think of and would do to you. You are abominations to them and your opinions and support for them count as nothing to them.

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