It wasn’t so long ago that even I can remember when being gay was illegal, having grown up in the 50s and early 60s in the UK. I can’t imagine how awful it must be in the UAE. Appalling in this day and age, but then Islamic states aren’t living in the current times, just like the so called ‘christian’ extremists in our own country. They’d impose similar laws if they could get away with it. That’s why we have to be ever vigilant and not take our freedoms for granted. Complacency achieves nothing.
Here we go again! Dubai thinks it is the dog’s b*****ks in trying be become like Singapore. Singapore may have strict laws left over from it’s British Colonial past and while it still has laws against homosexuality on it’s statute books, it no longer enforces them (if somebody knows otherwise, please enlighten me).
Dubai has two choices. It can either embrace diversity and become a modern, cosmopolitan city or it can remain in the dark ages with it’s Sharia codes. As the city, and the Emirates are no doubt going to do the latter then I suggest that all the investors, business people, second-home owners and celebrities pack their bags and move out. Without their money and when oil runs out Dubai and the Emirates will end up reverting to a Bedouin existance living on dates and longing for the affuent lives they once had.
err, i don’t think celebrities and business people will pack up and leave because uae mistreats gay people, get real
you may in fact be right. They haven’t done so on account of slave labout being used to build their spanking new apartments and offices, so I doubt they care about gays. I think it’s time Bernie Eccleston put ethics before money and pulled F1 out of EVERY one of these Arab nations.
Dubai is a city built on a form of legalised slavery. They need to realise tall buildings and follies in the sea are not a sign of culture and civilisation. They have a long, long way to go – I have real respect for anyone living there who speaks out on LGBT issues like this.
great britain aka british empire was built on similar concept
That is not a valid comparison, there is a considerable time differential between the British Empire and modern day Dubai.
i was referring to the idea of moralising and associated with it hypocrisy, its not like britain paid off to every entity that it stole from or to those where britain profited from forced labour. until such time ‘time differential’ will be irrelevant in terms of first paragraph
Yes but this is 2012.
The UAE STILL uses slaves – most people in the construction and service industries in the UAE are not free to leave.
I’m not British.
Nor is it 1845.
Either way, there is no comparison. Its a mute point. The UAE exists as it does now, so the the comparison is their human rights record compared with other countries TODAY.
you may not be british but you like to selectively point fingers at others, a favorite hobby of yours accompanied by outbursts of moralising
“you may not be british but you like to selectively point fingers at others, a favorite hobby of yours accompanied by outbursts of moralising”
Sorry, I debate with facts. You should drop the histrionics and try the same.
‘…Sorry, I debate with facts. You should drop the histrionics and try the same…’
err, no you not. you just dismiss them as irrelevant without explanation.
Actually, Kane, Will did provide you with the evidence, but you seem less interested in that. What’s disturbing is you defend Dubai and its labour rights abuses. What does it matter what the rest of the world is doing, it does not change what is happening in Dubai. Quite frankly, your reaction and ad hominem attacks are baffling.
dAVID, uae doesnt use slavery, slavery in uae is illegal. and any company operating there that use slavery is breaking the laws. but huge brown envelopes staffed with lots of money or friends in high places make sure that they can get away with it.
not sure if you have notice but human trafficking and forced labour are doing very well in uk
“uae doesnt use slavery, slavery in uae is illegal. ”
Sorry, you have that wrong. It may be illegal, but its labour laws accepted certain practices as de-facto slavery.
The BBC itself uncovered much of this (27 September 2004 “Workers’ safety queried in Dubai” – BBC News) and so has many Human Rights Oragnisations.
Look here, and educate yourself http://www.vice.com/vice-news/the-slaves-of-dubai
You comparisons of the UK are not valid, you produce no evidence, no facts, and you seem to thinks because some trafficking has occurred in one country, its absolves another? WTF?
You need to get your facts in order, and learn how to debate evidence, not engage in false analogies and the fallacy of correlation does not imply causation.
and below are examples of rosy life in uk
lets keep moralising, shall we?
“and below are examples of rosy life in uk”
None of what you said changes the human rights situation in Dubai.
The fact you seem to defended Dubai it says a lot about your ignorance in human rights and your seeming to support Dubai, and very little about your abilities to separate facts.
“lets keep moralising, shall we?”
Yawn. More histrionic tosh. Grows up.
‘…Your comparisons of the UK are not valid, you produce no evidence, no facts…’
i have but you dismissed the evidence and the facts contained in the links i presented to you as irrelevant. perhaps you could elaborate on your nonchalant dismissal. or is it just the case of you needing to learn how to debate evidence and not engage in false analogies.
Kane, you need a lesson in decorum as well as reality.The abuses against the labour market in Dubai and its foreign workers is well documented:-
Human Rights Watch – http://www.hrw.org/news/2006/03/28/uae-address-abuse-migrant-workers
UAE – Amnesty International Report 2008 – http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/uae/report-2008
The fact you deny his is happening is to be blunt, quite sicking.
Will, ignore his troll. He’s thinks he knows more then Amnesty International.
‘…The fact you seem to defended Dubai it says a lot about your ignorance in human rights and your seeming to support Dubai, and very little about your abilities to separate facts…’
i dont defend nor support dubai, just despise your hypocritical moralizing. you dismissed the facts i presented to you that showed cases of serious mistreatment of labour in uk but apparently mistreatment of labour in uk is not a problem for you (as you casually described it as irrelevant). mistreatment of labour, it seems, only concerns you when it happens in homophobic, third world and preferably muslim country.
david dont be stupid and read all post i provided then tell me where i denied that abuses in dubai dont happen. i never said what you claim i just said that abuses of labour happens also in uk. lets not be hypocritical. see links i provided
And see the links I and Will provided.
david i saw the links agreed that abuse happens but my point was serious abuse also happen in uk see my links. im against hypocritical moralizing
@ David, you’re wasting your time with this one. He thinks accepting a Human Rights reports is “moralising” and prevalence of abuses elsewhere negates Dubai – the “its happening everywhere, so therefore we can’t condemn” nonsense. I’m not even going to bother debate an insulting fool like that.
UK and UAE in the same league? I think not. “Hypocritical moralizing” my arse.
argument was about legalized slavery not country’s record on human rights. concentrate Will, will ya
“argument was about legalized slavery not country’s record on human rights. concentrate Will, will ya”
Indeed. Slavery, which exists beyond any doubt in the UAE, is not a human rights issue? LOL! Such a stunning demonstration of intellect. Maybe you can make a counter argument based on the coffee production in Colombia or some other irrelevancy, hmm?
I see I was correct first time, it seems:- buffoon.
i like the way you twist the argument to suit your point
‘…Slavery, which exists beyond any doubt in the UAE, is not a human rights issue?…’
government of uae did not legalise slavery nor did uk’s government. modern slavery exists in both countries. it exists because laws are broken and loopholes in employment laws are exploited and problem of corruption in dubai makes slavery easier over there. im not saying we cannot condemn slavery in uae because it exists in uk we can and should, but lets not jump on high horse and MORALISE them about it, when having similar problem here and when slavery is a result of criminal activity and not of government doing. its what i call hypocrisy.
Moralise? Or did I make a statement about a factual situation in Dubai?
You are clearly on your own if you think its former.
But its irrelevant, thankfully Amnesty International don’t take your view to state the abuses that are happening in Dubai is “moralising”.
I’ve already given you far too much attention here, clearly that’s what you’re after, but I find you sanctimonious argument irrelevant and tiresome. So knock yourself out.
clearly you are driven by stubbornness, you claim you stated the fact i sure you did but the manner in which you presented the fact had a strong aura of moralising, anyway im off its clear we not going to agree
I’m not sure what you’re all arguing about, you all seem to be making a similar point. But Kane, I suspect its you driven stubborness, given your insistence in getting the last word in. You really need to lighten up mate.
Brave people. We need to support them! There are many organisations that need donations to help people, where homosexuality is against the law!
uae is not a democracy, rulers retain absolute power within their emirates and in non democratic deficiency in human rights is a norm. how can we expect them to dish out gay rights when democracies like usa or russia introduce state by state city by city homophobic laws.
“how can we expect them to dish out gay rights when democracies like usa or russia introduce state by state city by city homophobic laws.”
Because deficiencies in human rights in Russia or the USA does not excuse the dictatorship and the slavery under which the UAE is run.
my point was, deficiencies in human rights of gay people in russia or the usa are good excuse for uae not to dish out gay rights. there is less international pressure when democratic countries like usa drag theit feet in giving gay people equality. and only international pressure can change lgbt’s treatment around the world
That’s democracy for you!
lets keep moralising
in response to Will’s drama piece about inequality that exists only in some parts of world, nothing to do with uk
Drama piece? You mean the facts?
You think facts are drama? LOL!
You sir, are a buffoon.
‘…You think facts are drama? LOL!…’
no, but presenting selective facts and dismissing others that dont suit your arguments is. LOL indeed
oh almost forgot, any more of your condescending insults in the form of ‘histrionics’? no?yes?maybe?
Actually, I think histrionics is an apt description Kane given your response and your defence of the UAE’s human rights record. Not too bright.
david where i defend dubai???
or are you just a troll???
If anyone is a troll here Kane, its you. You are defending the indefensible. That’s troll behaviour.
Your silly insults are tiresome, belies your rapier intellect no doubt. Think what you want, the fact you keep coming back only shows how desperate you are to defend your silly position.
well u call me troll first and accused me of defending abuses in dubai then you ignored me request to show me where i defended abuses in dubai
Well Kane, lets look at your comments, shall we?
“in response to Will’s drama piece about inequality that exists only in some parts of world, nothing to do with uk”
Did Will or anyone else say that it wasn’t happing in the UK? No.
Does what happens in the UK diminish or negate what is going on in Dubai? No.
Ergo, you are making up arguments based on fallacies.
“but you like to selectively point fingers at other” – no one selectively pointed any fingers, the original comment was “Dubai is a city built on a form of legalised slavery.” This happens to be a correct statement. Its puerile to state that slavery is legal simply because its is not explicitly stated in law. Legalised slavery implies the law ignore the existence of slavery conditions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html. Legalised or not, its academic, it exists in Dubai and the Emirates. I think I would call that a human rights abuse.
I will not comment any more, I tend to agree with Will, you are beyond any form of reason. But hardly surprising on this site. I’d suggest a long hard look in the mirror before ryou make studious acquisition of “hypocritical moralizing” when nothing of the sort has happened. You need to read more and quite frankly drop the UK bashing where it isn’t relevant to the debate – it makes you look like a sad little racist.
And I will say no more on this. If you think a last word responses allows you to “win” then by all means do so, if it makes you feel one bit better about yourself.
im gonna re post my response to will
The work of Clinton, Obama and the US; the work of Cameron and the UK and of gay activists to promote equality has had some success!
President Joyce Banda has said Malawi will overturn its ban on homosexual acts – the first African country to do so since 1994.
great news indeed, thats what i was arguing about here, what we need to push for a change is not constant outbursts of moralising but international pressure and that pressure is stronger when it comes from countries that embrace equality