Working class LGBT people want to marry too – and it is their civil right.
The campaign may make Sean Collins uncomfortable – but then those who sought to prevent interracial marriage in the 1950s and before were also made to feel uncomfortable. In my view that discomfort is a desirable side effect of challenging bigotry.
What an utter load of tosh. Unbelievable assumptions.
Quoting Prof Peter Drier of Occidental College:
“We’ve seen dramatic changes in public opinion before — on such issues as women’s suffrage, sexual harassment, interracial marriages, racial and sexual discrimination in jobs and housing, women’s roles at home and work, government’s role in protecting the environment, fuel efficiency in cars, and disability rights. In each case, grassroots movements made a big difference. Their role is to put new issues on the public agenda — to make people think about things they hadn’t thought about before. Initially, this makes people feel uncomfortable. It sometimes even triggers a backlash among some people who resist change. But eventually most people come to accept the reality — and fairness — of new ideas and behaviors. The radical ideas of one generation become the common sense of the next. When children born this year reach voting age 18 years from now, they will surely wonder how it was even possible that America once deprived gays and
lesbians the right to marry. They will take same-sex marriage for granted. Hopefully, however, they will learn in their history classes and on TV about the grassroots movement that catalyzed the dramatic changes in public opinion, laws and court rulings that made America a more humane country, especially for the married gay and lesbian couples they call their neighbors, friends, aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters, and parents.”
ummm, that makes a change from gay marriage will lead to polygamy/threesomes/beastility/underage sex/the armageddon etc etc.
It’s still an inane rubbish argument…but its a refreshing change.
Some working class people are gay – get over it!
Seriously though, am not aware of any opinion polling evidence that shows working class people as a block are homophobic or racist. For instance trade unions are very supportive on LGBT issues. Such wild assertions are a bit silly.
All four of his arguments are vague. They could just as easily apply to any historical movement, such as keeping slavery legal.
‘…moral superiority over the supposedly backward masses…’
an argument used time and time again against abolition of slavery, allowing women to vote, recognizing interracial marriages etc. and now to oppose ss marriages.
Thank you Sean Collins for single-handedly providing an excellent argument for cultural elitism.
What can we expect from a bloody right wing republican extremist and his allies on the backbench of the Tory party?
A man argues cultural elite attitudes are wrong at the same time as concluding the entire working class are backwards…
I’m sorry why are we even paying attention to this person?
Pathetic argument… Collins wants people to believe that this is NOT a “civil rights” issue even though that is exactly what it is. He knows that civil rights should not be voted on – that’s why they are called “civil RIGHTS”! He also wants this to remain an issue that people can vote on because he KNOWS that if this issue goes to the U.S. Supreme Court (or any court) his side would quickly lose. He also knows that once that happens, all the constitutional amendments” that were revised in states (like N.C.) to stop same-sex marriage will be declared unconstitutional as well… Ha, ha bigots!!!
There really is no let up in what these people will claim is there?
I think it has a lot to do with desperation. I think they know the writing is on the wall, inevitable that equal marriage is coming to many more countries whether they like it or not. So they resort to fear mongering and hateful rhetoric. Clearly an act of desperation for those who oppose change. None of their absurd predictions have come to fruition and won’t.
Perhaps the American civil rights campaign in the 1950s should have been abandoned as it demonised rednecks.
The clue is ‘Demonise’ folks.
Sean Collins you comments are ass clenchingly elitist. There are working class gays you know ! Its not all Hoxton and Soho. Perhaps you need to travel a little more to find reality.
Now we are terrorising the working classes! lol I am gay, I go to work! What are the bigots going to come up with next!
There was no ‘global consensus’ on the issue when the British banned slavery and sent its Navy out to put an end to it.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, and just because you’re among the first to point it out does not excuse hesitancy.
Homophobia, bigotry and racism, are all in the same class, to withhold any person’s rights (North Carolina) under any of the above grounds, should be against the constitution, I believe that this is in conflict with the 14th amendment of the constitution of the United States of America, so when are you going to take it to your courts
“Anyone who is against gay marriage is immediately considered to be someone who denies gay people’s humanity, does not believe in civil rights, is on the wrong side of history, is living in the past, is a ‘homophobe’ and – most of all – is a bigot.”
You said it, Sean
Well if you don’t want us pointing out how morally inferior your nasty bigoted views are then perhaps you ought to reconsider having such morally inferior nasty bigoted views.
That’s you, note, not “the working classes”, who you do not speak for and whose support for marriage equality is pretty much the same as anyone else’s.
It really does come to something when the best argument the other side can put forward is “I don’t like being called out on the moral bankruptcy of my position”.
o no, its only appropriate when he demonises the working class for his own gain. Remember there are LGBT working class people too.
Wow, I’m touched. Sean Collins regards as amongst the cultural elite. Massive compliment :D
Given Mr Collins previous, is this just another extension of the “Cameron and Osborne are out of touch toffs” line? Is he seriously suggesting that LGBT people and everyone who supports us are all Oxbridge graduates living off our trust funds?
He speaks for nobody, least of all the working class.
Sean Collins, like Brendan O’Neill who wrote something similar a few months ago on Spiked, is a Catholic journalist with a record of writing against contraception and abortion. Hardly surprising he is also against gay marriage. And Spiked is a faux-leftist publication that has very questionable links to a series of shady lobby groups
LOL. How the Hell can a practising Catholic complain about an elite indicating moral superiority over the masses?!??!
Sean, you’re part of the problem Son. Go read some Christopher Hitchens or something :-D
“The lack of global consensus”??? Oh, he means Iran.
“The campaign for gay marriage is being used by the elites for a broader purpose: as a tool for indicating moral superiority over the supposedly backward masses. I refuse to join in the demonisation of working-class people, many of whom quite understandably don’t see why the institution of marriage should be reformed.”
I think the person or persons demonising the working class are sean collins and his crew of numpties!
Just because a person is working class does not mean that they are uneducated or in Collins case positively retarded.
According to the HPA in 2009 “The number of people infected with HIV acquired through heterosexual contact in the UK has almost doubled in four years, whereas the level of HIV cases in MSM and IV drug users has stabilised”.
In November 2011, the Western Australia Department of Health found a rise in HIV cases and that the major contributor to the rise was HIV in heterosexuals. “The increase in HIV notifications with infection acquired through heterosexual exposure is of most concern,”
More people in the UK contracted HIV through heterosexual sex rather than homosexual activity for the first time in 1999 and this has continued in all but one year since according to PHLS.
All the better reason for the government to encourage gay men to settle down in long-term monogamous relationships then, by extending the marriage laws.
Thanks for your support :)
Let us suppose that all these figures are accurate, Keith. In that case you should support civil marriage for gay couples, since it will massively affirm their committed relationships and encourage faithfulness among them.
However, I suspect that you would condemn gay sex if it were as germ-free as an operating theatre; you simply have an irreducibly irrational and obsessive fear and hatred of it.
Fear and hatred, yes, but also an overwhelming obsession. I don’t believe an hour passes without keith obsessing over gay sex. Come out, keith! Talk to someone and get the help you need with all your problems.
Define why your morality is truer than anyone else’s? You can’t, like any other religious nut.
Human rights are those basic and fundamental rights to which every person – for the simple reason of being human – is entitled. They are inherent to all human beings, whatever their nationality, place of residence, sex, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, language, sexual orientation or any other status. They are therefore innate, Universal, inalienable, indivisible and interdependent/interrelated.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
The right of adults to enter into consensual marriage is enshrined in international human rights standards.
Article 16, Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR):
Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
For more than a decade, this non-discrimination principle has been interpreted by UN treaty bodies and numerous inter-government
human rights bodies as prohibiting discrimination based on gender or sexual orientation. Non-discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation has therefore become an internationally recognized principle and many countries have responded by bringing their domestic laws into line with this principle in a range of spheres including marriage and other rights.
The rights of LGBT people on a range of issues, including marriage, hospital visitation, adoption, housing, and employment, vary wildly from state to state. Human rights are by nature inherent and universal—not regional—and we must continue our work to advance this understanding in all nations and territories.
The ECHR said in 2010 that it “would no longer consider that the right to marry enshrined in article 12 must in all circumstances be limited to marriage between two persons of the opposite sex.” Clearly, identifying that same sex couples may have the right to marry.
The only one trying to take over and dominate Pink News with deviant and evil views is you, Keith.
Put a sock in it and leave this site.
“Someone doesn’t like facts!”
We know you don’t……….
The facts contained in the link below were certainly one’s you didn’t seem to like to much from Aaron
In a report released last year on World Aids Day new figures showed over half of all HIV infection in the UK is from heterosexual contact – an increase of 37% from the previous year.
Research from Taylor Nelson Sofres Healthcare (TNSH) shows that 54% of all HIV infections in the UK are from heterosexual sex.
The HIVDynamics Monitor study which details more than 2,000 HIV patients in France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK, shows HIV infection through heterosexual contact has also increased in Italy rising from 28% last year to 47% last year.
Ah the paranoia creeps in – along with an admission that he does not know whether it is Stu or not because he says Pink News should check the IP addresses.
Is Stu using different names, I doubt it – but I don’t know. Its clear Keith doesn’t either.
Again, Keith makes claims, accusations and comments without evidence or knowledge.
The paranoia brings with it lies too.
OK. Prove that I’m Stu. This should be interesting given I’m in Scotland and Stu’s in England somewhere. So let’s see this proof
LOL. “I’m Stu, and so’s my wife!!”
I am the only Stu – I can promise you that.
I do agree with all of the comments about Keith though.
The only reason he is on here is to spread hate, to harass and to taunt.
Criminal acts for which he will be arrested.
Looking forward to seeing him in court.
Rebecca Brooks said she would never be charged – yet this morning she was. The same will happen with Keith.
Figures released by the Republic of Irelands Department of Health in 2003 stated that:
The number of heterosexual people, particularly women, contracting HIV in Ireland is on the increase, new figures from the National Disease Surveillance Centre (NDSC) have shown.
According to the figures which cover the first six months of this year, 157 people were diagnosed with HIV, with heterosexuals accounting for 70% of cases. Of these, 80% were women.
The number of homosexual cases contracted has not continued to rise.
I never said you didn’t agree. That wasn’t the question now was it?
And Aaron clearly gave you the names of the various acts he was referencing before explaining to you why you could be in breach of those acts. Do you know how to Google?
Kris – That’s K R I S. Not Stu
Must be a different Aaron to the one I have read – he said he was a solicitor-advocate and gave sound legal interpretation.
I have never seen any comment that he was a commercial pilot – I think either that is a different Aaron or you are mistaken or you (as usual) try to mislead, Keith.
As for being new on here. I don’t comment often – but I do from time to time. You will find my posts if you bother to look for them.
We have had strong disagreements in the past – and you threw your teddy out of the pram then too.
I am one of the regular readers of Pink News who does not comment often but is heartily sickened by your abuse and rhetoric on this site.
This epidemic unfortunately remains an epidemic of women.”- Michel Sidibé, Executive Director of UNAIDS
At the end of 2010 it was estimated that out of the 34 million adults worldwide living with HIV and AIDS, half are women. The AIDS epidemic has had a unique impact on women, which has been exacerbated by their role within society and their biological vulnerability to HIV infection.
Generally women are at a greater risk of heterosexual transmission of HIV. Biologically women are twice more likely to become infected with HIV through unprotected heterosexual intercourse than men. In many countries women are less likely to be able to negotiate condom use and are more likely to be subjected to non-consensual sex.
Additionally, millions of women have been indirectly affected by the HIV and AIDS epidemic. Women’s childbearing role means they have to contend with issues such as mother-to-child transmission of HIV.
A Strategic Approach: HIV & AIDS and Education, United Nations 2009.
Well Aaron gave you a fairly clear explanation of his point and your reply was to call him an imbecile. Not very friendly now was it?
And again it’s Kris, not Stu. I’d really like to see your evidence to show I’m not in Scotland right now and am in fact wherever Stu is by the wasy. Must be some cracking evidence. Care to share?
is that what you do to evade PN blocking you, Keith?
Raises suspicion somewhat more – don’t you think!
“I tell the truth”
Only on planet Keith – not the truth as the rest of the world knows it.
keith admitted to using someone else’s IP when I challenged him about his disgusting abuse months ago. In fact, he even crowed about it, leading me to believe he knew what he was doing was wrong.
But he just can’t stop himself, can he? The more hatred that ooozes from his posts, the more we can see how angry he actually is with himself. I do hope he gets the help he needs.
Perhaps he should ask himself why he seeks so much attention from gay men on here….
Haha. You consider ““I have never seen any comment that he was a commercial pilot – I think either that is a different Aaron or you are mistaken or you (as usual) try to mislead, Keith.” as your smoking gun? Really?
Now how about me? Prove I’m Stu and not me as you claim
And as me(not Stu) I am certainly entitled to declare your evidence as total BS because I’m me(not Stu)
Watch out, Kris! keith seems to be getting very fond of you! :D
Course he is. He think’s I’m Stu who we all know he’s obsessed with already
“I urge all PN readers to condemn Stu’s behaviour on here as it is apparent that he is acting dishonestly with his many user IDs”
“He is an individual of extremely low character”
Oh the irony!
I think our anally-obsessed friend is trying to speak from the takes-one-to-know-one perspective (and even then he fails).
Apologies Keith. I copied the whole quote quickly while I was at work. I was referencing the irony of you asking others to condemn someone on here, not accusing you of dishonesty. Not a God fearing individual like you.
As well as the multiple IDs and the judgment of character parts of course
I will defend Aaron – others may also wish to.
A trap and evidence – all it evidences is your paranoia, its not real evidence.
Prove it, bring an audit trail of IP use etc – that is the only evidence that will determine this.
I know the truth – and what you say is mere sophistry to try and evade your responsibility for your own duplicitous and depraved activity on this site.
Are you serious? How many different identities have you taken on so far (because, surprise surprise, you keep being deleted but just can’t keep away)? Over 100?
Your names are frequently blocked? Perhaps, rather than just changing to a new one, you should ask yourself WHY your comments are being blocked?
And while you’re at it, ask yourself why you have such a massive obsession with gay men! How many other straight men do you think spend a FRACTION of the time on PN that you do??
Your arrest will happen though.
Your taunts make me laugh, nothing more.
Produce any lie that I have told that I have not immediately admitted.
Ignore him, Stu. His obsession with you is tedious – not to mention very creepy! I hardly think you’re flattered! :D
Look at all his posts here and see how he craves attention. Sad – in both senses of the word.
He’s very tedious and difficult to ignore.
He might fancy me – but the feelings are not reciprocated from me.
I replied. I gave you an answer. Go and look for it.
I am saying I gave you a reply – go and look for it, if you can not recall it.
I’d laugh if you weren’t so very, very sad, keith. Seek the help you need for all our sakes – including your own.
How patronising to assume working class people are stupid! What an insulting and divisive attitude from Sean Collins.
Ten Reasons Against Gay Marriage
1. Being gay is not natural. Real people always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.
2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
3. Legalising gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behaviour. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn’t changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can’t marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.
5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britney Spears’ 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren’t full yet, and the world needs more children
7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.
8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That why we only have one religion.
9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That’s why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.
10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven’t adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer lifespans.
Brilliant. Can I copy it all and use it?