So – one snivelling coward and one who thinks that the UK is a theocracy (and has a pathetic grasp of jurisprudence and social history).
There is no cogent legitimate secular argument against it. Full bloody stop.
The really disturbing thing is that the snivelling coward is Defence Secretary! Not really an apppropriate job for a coward methinks!
I thumbed down this by mistake sowwy ^^ i meant to thumb up.
I agree 100%
The man is a disgrace. Look at what he has overseen happen to our armed forces in last 24 months and now he proves to be clueless like ao many oter politicians on what we want.
Well, those idiots seem to think there is a cogent argument against it, i.e. Civil Partnerships are all we need. They’re all on the same page about that and it’s brought up every time the morons justify their opposition. They also believe religious and civil marriage are the same which we all know they are not.
Interesting that Hammond appears to have sidestepped giving his view of equal marriage.
It sounds to me like a lack of courage on what is an important issue. I notice that he didn’t actually oppose marriage equality though, and I am wondering if he has attempted to sidestep the issue for a quiet life!
The UK is a theocracy. The church of England is the official state church with ‘lords spiritual’ as members of the house of lords, your queen is the head of the church and ‘the defender of the faith’ and there is no law in the UK that separates the two.
Finally, I hope this convinces all the gay Tories that their party really has not changed gay marriage is the coalition policy only because the LibDems pushed for it. It is not and never has been Tory party policy in the way that it is labour, LibDem, green and even SNP party policy.
It’s not really the official policy of the Tory or Labour Parties either. Only the Liberal Democrats officially endorsed it as party policy. It seems more are coming out of the woodwork to vote against equal marriage, and fewer coming forward to support it or if they are, it rarely gets reported in the media.
Yeah but lib dims also promised to vote against tuition fee increases, promises from fib dems usually isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
New Aussie – were you living in the UK in 2005 when the Labour government refused to pass gay marriage and opted for civil partnerships instead?
Hardly… afraid this is democracy. People are allowed to have a difference of opinion, regardless of if we like the opinion or not.
I hardly think it’s fair to taint all with the negative side when many in the party including the Prime Minister, Home Secretary, Secretary for Work and Penison etc have come out in favour.
Also Labour have yet to make marriage Equality party policy and had they remained we wouldn’t even be having this debate since Gordon Brown didn’t agree with it.
I’d rather wait and see. We have already been told it’s not if or not but when and how so before I bash the gift horse in the gob, I’ll hold off and wait. Prehaps your another who’d just rather the Tories did nothing…. but then as I said we wouldn’t be here now had Labour remained.
Is it really surprising that in the time of the consultation, we hear people from all sides speak? er no think thats the idea of it all.
The reply I had from Daivd Heath was
“David is a government minister, and will support the government stance. ”
So here we have 2 Tory government ministers not supporting the government’s stance. Doesn’t someone need to sort these guys out? The ministers MUST support the govt!
This Tory party seems to me a shambolic party, out of control, no loyality etc etc….Don’t they realise they only scrapped thru into govt with the help of the Libdems, don’t they realise they were unelectable for 13yrs?
What a useless bunch, can’t make a simple one lined change to the civil marriage law, every govt department has to sit around while they sort out the economy (which they won’t do anyway!)
And a labour MPs Barry sheerman also said today that gay people don’t want gay marriage!!!
What are LGBTory and LGBTlabour doing?
And they are headed for defeat in 2015 with or without equal marriage.
Barry Sheeman should be asked where he gets his information from. He’s as bad as that other bigot in Yorkshire, Craig Whittaker. Does he honestly believe not one gay person in his constituency supports equal marriage? It seems as if he’s reading the C4M script and parroting Anne Widdecombe who said exactly the same thing earlier. Why isn’t Ed Miliband confronting him? Why isn’t David Cameron pushing back at the traitors in his party?
Yes, but at the same time WHERE are the gay people in these constituencies? Why aren’t they contacting them, or visiting them at their surgeries, or making their support clear?! I’m currently living in Greece for the year, but I’ve still contacted my MP and asked friends and family to do so too, with the full knowledge that the opposition will be going mental and rallying the troops.
LGBT people – their own worst enemy sometimes. If everyone who wasn’t heterosexual and their friends filled in the consultation, signed the C4EM petition and lobbied their MPs, the overwhelming wave of support would crush most of this opposition. Sigh.
Yes, that is a point, we are oftentimes our own worst enemy. Ben Bradshaw has caused considerable harm in spite of him saying he’ll vote for it. He should have kept his big mouth shut. Wreckless and inappropriate. Again, Ed Miliband did nothing, said nothing.
Time that the Lib Dems removed themselves from the coalition
Yes, I’ve already contacted Nick Clegg about that, pull out NOW, drop them in it. Nobody is pushing back at these vipers, nobody confronts them head on.
Hell will freeze over before Nick Clegg pulls the Lib Dems out. It will take either a Tory rebellion to push them out or a Lib Dem rebellion to pull out by first getting rid of Clegg as Lib Dem leader, the way they did with Charlie Kennedy a few years ago, who was their most successful leader and when they weren’t even in trouble as a party – not too bright these Lib Dems.
libdems are too fearful to leave now, as they know they will be decimated if there is another general election at this stage . Tories are scum.
Families Minister Tim Loughton told a constituent that marriage must only be between a “man and a woman”.
It was once said marriage must only be between a “white man and a white woman”.
That was in time seen as nothing more than ignorance, bigotry and a desire to impose apartheid over a fellow man, as this fool will be remembered for the same.
“For me, marriage as a religious institution cannot be anything other than between a man and a woman, and particularly when all the rights and responsibilities of marriage are available to non-heterosexual couples through civil partnerships.”
What is it with these bloody conservatives? Nobody is discussing religious marriage in the consultation? Why is it they keep referring to religious marriage when they know it’s the opposite? The arrogance of these people saying it’s not a priority. No, not for them because they can get married. These two clowns should be asked if they would consider a CP if it were available and if not why not, all things being equal? I think we know what their response would be and it would be a lame one at that. This has more to do with traditional Tory homophobia. If either of these two idiots were being deluged with demands to introduce equal marriage, they’d still be against it.
More proof that religion rots the mind and destroys that capacity for reasonable thought.
Should we really base law in the UK on what some bronze age bloody fiction MIGHT want (given that its own bloody followers cannot agree on what that is…)
Exactly right! Opposition to equal marriage I guarantee will be their defeat in 2015, so be it. Serves them right. I’m slowly becoming less confident that equal marriage will be legal before then. There seems to be more of them oppposed to it than who support it. I don’t think they really care if they lose a second term over it and are quite prepared to see it happen. They can expect to be kicked into the long grass for many years.
““For me, marriage as a religious institution cannot be anything other than between a man and a woman” – the push for marriage equality is for civil marriage, nothing to do with religion.
Expect a lot more of this. it will become an issue around which the reactionary, backwoods Tories will rally. The odious Nadine Dorries will be cheerleading this one.
Still no one expected to win without a fight.
I really don’t understand some MPs opposition because they claim it’s not a priority for most people.
Of course it’s not a priority for most people; most people aren’t LGBT.
They seem to use it as a cop-out to pretend they’re not homophobic. They can argue that they don’t think it should be debated all they want, but if it comes to a vote (which i hope it will) HOW will they vote?
At that point the lame excuse that they should focus on the economy instead (as if issues can only be dealt with one at a time) will not wash.
I think CPs have done more damage to equal marriage than ever. It’s given the homophobes a reason to oppose it. Yet nobody asks them why they wouldn’t want one if it were available. I can imagine what their response would be to that. They’d figure out some absurd reason why they wouldn’t want one, although claiming they are equal. It’s homophobia and they can’t even be honest about it. Having gay friends and voting for CPs doesn’t get them off the hook any more. That’s how stupid they are and those who vote for them. It’s the same nasty homophobic party its always been. As I said in another post, if it weren’t for the Liberal Democrats, there would be NO equal marriage consultation. Look who’s heading it, Lynne Featherstone. Why wasn’t a Tory appointed as Equalities Minister if they’re so in favour of it?
The are legitimate reasons as to why civil partnerships aren’t equal. Firstly, declaring one’s status as in a civil partnership is akin to outing yourself (this won’t change with the proposals if civil partnerships remain and opposite-sex couples remain excluded from them). Secondly the hurt and additional bureaucracy for wed trans people wishing to change their legally recognised gender. These two things need to be said over and over.
It may seem like CPs are a hindrance now but they’ve provided same-sex couples with such important rights. My mother’s a hospice nurse and was telling me about a gay patient who died before their introduction whose partner then fought heartbreaking battles with his homophobic family over his possessions. The introduction of CPs was extremely important and something no one should look back on with regret.
WTF is Mr Tim Loughton doing as “Families Minister”?????????????
Really beginning to think that after so much hope, this isn’t going to pass in the current parliament. Depressing.
They can try and pretend they can block it – but the campaign will never end till it succeeds and the momentum is with the campaign for equal marriage.
Oh I completely agree. The widespread support amongst people my age, pressure placed on the UK by changes in France etc, and yes, the support of many Tories, make it inevitable that some day it will be legalised. I’m just not sure if we’re going to win with the current makeup of parliament any more. But fingers crossed :)
I get the same feeling. There is virtually NO pushback against the bigots from anyone in the three parties, none.
I doubt if the majority in the Tory party support it since we’re seeing more of them in opposition speak out than those who don’t. I see their party wavering even more once the consultation concludes. These morons are more than happy to defeat it, that’s their agenda, no matter that they’ll lose the 2015 election with or without it. They really don’t care one iota. I just don’t understand the silence from those who support us in their party. They should be confronting them head on and expose their bigotry and nonsense regarding polygamy and three-way relationships. Cameron has not displayed any leadership on this.
I still believe this is going to happen. We can do this.
Ignore the C4M bumping up their numbers to grab headlines – the petition figures are 1/3 of what they claim. Ignore the government changing mind story and spinning of the queen’s speech. The consultation doesn’t end until June 14th so what’s more to say that’s newsworthy – not like “Tory MP Blah Blah supports PM” is going to make headlines. Yet in the meantime the government is saying all it can by insisting they haven’t changed their position, if the PM made another speech they’d spin it as him lingering on the issue too long. It’s all to weaken our resolve and feel like we’re losing. We’re not.
Many gay people and friends of our side still haven’t replied to the consultation:
I bet the Christian congregations have been more persistent than many of us in getting their side completing this. Get pushy!
Not to worry. They’ll be gone soon. The Tories are unelectable, and are only in office now because the artificially created political wedge known as the Liberal Democrats formed a coalition with them. (Thereby also casting themselves into the political wilderness of tomorrow.)
However much you think they’ve progressed, they’ll always be the same old Tories. Patriarchy, bigotry, and a divided society.
you forgot patronage and privilege by birth and cronyism and who you know not what and grammar schools. we should have followed the french model. 2012 and 1789.
I wonder what the MOD’s policy is/was/will be towards military wedding’s??
I hope this mean spirited attitude amongst some MPs and some clergy has galvanised some of the gay Uncle Toms into realising just how they are really regarded?
Tolerated by the above if they keep quiet and gratefully accept scraps from the table. Still quiet happy with your CPs, guys and gals?
Wait until they leave the country and find out their CPs aren’t equal to the hodge podge of the non-marital legal unions in many of the EU member states. Freedom of movement within the EU must encompass equal marriage rights too, no matter what the ECHR says. They’re not too bright if they think they have all the equality they need through CPs that aren’t even legal marriages under the law, otherwise why call them that? I bet if a referendum were held for opening CPs to straight couples, few would support it and we all know why. That idiot Ben Breadshaw whined about how unequal his CP was regarded in comparison to David Cameron’s marriage and then goes and puts his foot in it by saying equal marriage isn’t necessary. Another idiot who ought to be booted out on his arse.
Hammond is a homophobe. He’s voted against most gay rights bills, and absented himself for others — which is the only reason he managed to get a low, but not horrendous, 22%.
Better we know who these homophobes are. This is why it’s so important http://www.c4em.org.uk/support-for-equal-marriage/ is filled out and completed. Thus far the Tories are proving that a large percentage of them are still homophobic, just like they were up to 2005 — when they said they had changed. Theresa May has changed – she now believes in gay couples adopting. But many of the old right-wingers are as fundamentally opposed to us as they ever were – perhaps even more so now we’re asking for equality.
This still appears to be true;
Ant-gay hate group C4M have manufactured a controversy around same sex marriage by deliberately misinforming people that there will be implications for religious groups which is quite untrue.
Will no pro-equality ministers offer up their opinions and give some words of encouragement for marriage equality, it’s extremely wearying having all these bigots regularly voicing their negative opinions pretty much unchallenged by their peers.
Perhaps they just don’t want to rise to the bait seeing as there is no argument from the anti-equality lobby that could make entering into a debate with them at all worthwhile.
I agree, the silence by those in support is truly deafening. No leadership from Cameron, Miliband or Clegg either. I’m sick and tired of hearing the same old negative mantras. About time all three of them put the buggers in their place, ideally boot them out.
“difficult to push through”, “use up a lot of political capital” and “a lot of legislative time as well”.
Read that as, “We’ll make damn sure it does.”
A self fufilling prophesy if ever there was one.
Or “This change is a waste of parliamentary time because we will oppose it and make sure it is a waste of parliamentary time. Therefore just do as we say, that’s democracy for extremists.”
this morning mathew paris of daily hatemail on andrew marr’s show said im a member of stonewell and i think that civil partnerships are fine. while conservative eric pickles on sunday politics show said that not changing CPs to equal marriage is a hypocrisy
what a funny world we are living in
sorry not mathew paris but andrew pierce
It’s not the first time he’s sided with homophobes. In fact, Andrew Pierce is one of those gay men who also happens to be homophobic. It’s disgusting.
I know he has to earn a crust but surely there is a limit?
Pierce is utterly dreadful. Can we throw him out of the gay community?
Absolutely. Revoke his membership and change the secret password without telling him.
Good on Eric Pickles
I read a lovely little comment on some blog.
As usual someone stated that Civil Partnerships were equal to marriage and that we should be content with them
The lovely reply was as follows:
“Civil Partnerships cease at the UK departure lounge.
A marriage travels with you.”
No necessarily true but it tickled me nonetheless…………
Yes, necessarily true, unless you restrict your travel to a very few countries.
And any foreign same sex marriage gets suddenly dissolved when it lands in the UK …
The Conservatives are now making us go backwards on this.
Rather than legalising same-sex marriage without fuss (which is what they should have done), they’re stalling and delaying, giving a chance for all the homophobic bigots in the party to crawl out of the woodwork and have one last hurrah.
We haven’t heard this kind of blatant homophobia from the Tories in a while. Cameron’s dithering is only providing more oxygen to these people, and it damages the progress in gay rights we’ve made as a country in the past 10 years.
Cameron’s dithering? Er aren’t we in the middle of a consultation on the subject? Hardly call that dithering when if the last Labour government had remained we wouldn’t even be discussing it.
I’m going to ignore Mr. Hammond, the Cowardly Lion. Maybe he’ll be able to find some courage as he stumbles his way through his duties.
The real outrage is to have a Families Minister, Mr Loughton. Evidently his definition of “family” does not fit the diversity of what constitutes a family today. He only supports the fictional “ideal” family of a mother and father with children. This is not what most families look like in today’s world. But his blatant homophobia has blinded him to the realities of the problems that real world families and children face.
Let’s remember the name – HOMOPHOBIC TIM HOUGHTON – the Tory minister for families and children, which by the way does not include LGBT people.
Let’s also watch to see if the Tories allows this reprehensible man to keep the post for which he is utterly unqualified.
Loughton wouldn’t even consider a gay couple with a CP to be a family either. Families aren’t all about having children, but he would consider a straight married childless couple a family though. He can trot out that worn out chestnut that he has gay friends as if that would exempt him from being labelled a homophobe because that’s just what he is. I’d have more respect for these morons if they’d be honest and just admit they don’t like gay people very much, ditto Hammond. You know, even if the economy were thriving, they’d still consider equal marriage unnecessary and not a priority. Its that good old Tory homophobia.
Indeed… being that same sex couple do have children and families the questions have to be asked why aren’t LGBT people included and is Tim Houghton really the right person for the job if he insists on excluding?
“too controversial” (for the few Tory MPs)…..until it’s actually done and once done, it’s fogotten and eveyone wonders what all the fuss was about!
Odds on the government bringing forwards a bill before 2015 anyone?
I do wonder though if they are limbering up to the Home Office seeking to somehow ‘sponsor’ a private members bill as a way out of the mess they are in. Time for the Govt to order/dust off copies of Roy Jenkins’ diaries?
They sound like that poor schizophrenic woman Jane Svoboda. Is this the tories showing their true colours? Where have all those LGBTory campaigners gone? What’s sad is the coalition that the lib-dems created. How could they do that? Sad, sad Nick Clegg. He will go down in history as one of the most pathetic politician’s in office of all time.
Clegg and Featherstone are doing all that they can to get equal marriage. What’s sad is how they’re getting attacked, when they’re doing more on this issue than Labour did. Whatever your views may be about the coalition, it is undeniable that the Lib Dems remain the party the most committed to equal rights.
1 – Ministers openly attacking policies strongly advocated by the PM, who is their own party leader.
2 – Said ministers have no majority support in the Commons, but are in government only in coalition with a party strongly supporting the policy they attack.
Along with so many other issues, this is a recipe for meltdown, maybe before 2015. I’ll be quite happy to see them go, but I don’t want equal marriage kicked into the long grass in the meantime.
Fine to have their opinion but this isn’t supposed to be about if or not we should have this Equality but rather how and when.
Also striking isn’t it that this issue becomes “too controversial” to those who do not wish to have such a marriage… so I ask them again…. if you don’t wish to marry a lover of the same sex, then what has it got to do with you and how exactly does it affect you?
It is common sense that marriage equality will go a long way to create a equal, fairer, stable society… in light of recent events here in the UK why do these people feel threatened by an equal, fairer, stable society?
Makes no sense to me.
It used to make a lot of sense to some people just a few months ago… whatever happened in their mind since… who knows… perhaps not even they know … for they were among the most prominent Tories’ cheerleaders of yesteryear … now left with no other option but to play dumbfounded to the almost daily homophobic declarations of current Tory ministers …
Erm… well I hope at any rate you know what your talking about.
Thank you so much, Mr Hammond, for giving up your valuable personal time on a Sunday, when you might have been worrying about the war you are running in Afghanistan, to intervene and try to stop marriage for gay people. What would we do without you
Is there a gay movement in the UK? Because I read article after article about how backbenchers and various religious groups are attacking the marriage equality proposal, but I don’t see any evidence of a gay response.
Example: There is an online petition opposing equality that has gathered 500,000 signatures. The only pro-equality petition is run by a gay couple and virtually no one is aware of its existence. In most of these articles attacking marriage equality, there is not so much as a single statement from any gay organization.
Why don’t you people speak up? Why doesn’t your premier organization, Stonewall, actually do and say something to support this proposal and to counter the petitions and the backbencher attacks?
If you cede the battlefield, you will lose.
Where are you from David may I ask?
The nation is riddled with an intense political apathy. Not only LGBT people but everyone generally, doesn’t give a damn about anything.
No that’s wrong they do give a damn but they just like to complain loudly about it and sit on their ar$e. The government destroys the NHS we all have a good whinge, they make a mockery of our education system we complain and do sweet fa, they take money from the sick, disabled and the elderly and we tut and shake ours heads. (It’s not just this government either. They have been taking the pi55 for years so let’s not get party political.)
If anyone does do anything in the way of protest they are arrested and kettled by the police and the media screams hysterically and vilifies them. (I’m not talking about the riots, people who set fire to businesses and loot are not protesters they are criminals).
This is why nothing happens it’s a cultural problem not an LGBT specific problem.
You’re absolutely right about that. There seems ot be a general sense of apathy among LGBT people. The C4EM petition is not doing very well at all, currently 55,229, appallingly low. All of those wonderful videos that have emerged haven’t had much of an impact either in terms of signature gathering unless they get media coverage on all of the t.v. channels, although I doubt the BBC would consider any. The three party leaders really haven’t spoken up enough to counter the opposition. StonewallUK has said precious little since the consultation began. Maybe the bigots are right, gay people don’t want equal marriage since they’re not prepared enough to fight for it and make their voices heard. If that’s the case, then we’ll just have to settle for Civil Partnerships sadly.
If the response to the C4M is in excess of 500,000, I would assume that those who signed it have signed the government’s petition. That doesn’t bode well for us.
He is plainly admitting bias and doesn’t care a hoot for people such as Quakers. He’s a bigot with no concern for religious tolerance or equality and fairness.
Of course the BBC does a lot to aid and abet the anti-equality crowd. Whenever they even mention the subject it is only ever to people that they know will be against, which gives the audience the impression that there is far more resistance than is the case.
We’re being made a scapegoat by propaganda tactics.
I blame the three party leaders and their members for not pushing back and putting the bigots in their place. All we hear are negative comments from the homophobes, hardly ever anything decent and compelling from those who allegedly support us. Cameron, Miliband and Clegg need to show some leadership, courage and integrity by standing up to the bigotry, otherwise, the hypocrittes and religious bigots will win.
Philip Hammond and Tim Loughton are neo-fascist, bigotted, extremist scum.
Their foul extremism brings shame to the bigotted Tory Party,
And their bigotry also, sort of makes them a disgrace to the human race.
And another two who must resign. If they cannot support their own party and their PM then there is no point in their being there. Your resignations are most welcome, gentlemen. There is a little saying that goes: united we stand, divided we fall. The Tories seem to be falling apart and crumbling away.
Unfortunately, both Philip Hammond and Tim Loughton are in safe Conservative seats. You know the type of county seat where you could grab one of the sheep from the field, put a Tory badge on it and the locals would rush to vote for it!
Don’ t try that in New Zealand LOL
The mind boggles, Attaboy! lol
“For me, marriage as a religious institution cannot be anything other than between a man and a woman,”unquote. In this day and age I fail to see where marriage as a religious institution has anything to do with government. We need to pull governments into the 21st century and totally separate the two entities. That means remove from government all control over anything religious and vice versa. All MPs should be vetted to find out if they are capable of thinking state separate from church, and removed if they fail the test.Either that or castrate the bastards. IMHO.
WARNING: you guys need to dump Peter Tatchell and STOP pushing this. Have you seen the backlash in the States? Obama can;t do anything abotu NC.
The UK HAS Civil Partnerships. Enjoy them for a while, LET THE DUST SETTLE. Then see if there’s nothing better to be had thatn the same old broken down system that’s been around for centuries.
MartinNYID, there is a VAST difference between England and the United States, where each individual state controls the marriage laws. Once the Parliament votes for Marriage Equaltiy that will be it. Not like the nonsense of ballots that we have seen in such states as NC. Also, the Brits aren’t are ‘screwed’ in the head about religion, as you over in the land of ‘socalled’ democracy! America is nearer to Russia with many of it’s laws and lack of human rights!
“The UK HAS Civil Partnerships. Enjoy them for a while, LET THE DUST SETTLE.”
Who are you to dictate the progress sin another country?
Let me try put the word “black” instead of “gay” and we’ll see how stupid your comment is, shall we?
WARNING: you blacks need to dump Martin Luther King and STOP pushing this. Have you seen the backlash in the States? Kennedy can’t do anything about Alabama.
The UK HAS voting rights for blacks. Enjoy them for a while, LET THE DUST SETTLE. Then see if there’s nothing better to be had thatn the same old broken down system that’s been around for centuries.
Sounds wrong, doesn’t it?
How can we win when the C4EM petition is only 55, 229 signatures and all we hear are negative comments from MPs, religoius cults aided and abetted by the Daily Mail,Telegraph and the BBC, almost on a daily basis. Nobody is speaking up to counter any of the hatreful rhetoric that gets unlmited media coverage.
For the majority of Tory supporters this must be an absolute disaster. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
The Tories don’t have a majority to enable them to rule alone. Their popularity is plummeting. And now a small group of their politicians have decided to dig in on an issue that the majority of British voters support. It has loosing stance written all over it.
Real windfall for Ed Milliband.
You really do live in a communist bubble don’t you Beberts!!
I prefer democracy and not being told what to do, think or say… unlike, it seems… you.