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South Africa: House of Chiefs oppose gay rights

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  1. Then may I invite them to take their “traditional” values and cram them and their country. Or shall we just scream APARTHEID at the tops of our voices and point out that what they seek to do to us is what was done to them. I am so sick of tip-toeing around that simple truth.

    1. johnny.33308 7 May 2012, 8:24pm

      You’ve hit the nail on the head! The once-oppressed have become that which their ancestors fought against and despised; Oppressors! Here in the US the blacks have their own version of the KKK….it’s called the Baptist Church! They will take their place in history along side of the Segregationists and the Apartheidists! Their decendants will be so proud!

    2. Gay & Happy 9 May 2012, 3:08am

      I couldn’t agree more. It’s not even as if Apartheid etc wasn’t within living memory for many. How can it not have occurred to these people how similar these issues are? Is this a case of the bullied becoming the bully? Makes me feel betrayed for supporting their cause. But I suppose that all we can do is keep trying to lead by example. Frustrating though.

  2. To think that South Africa was the first country in the world to enshrine GLBT equality in their constitution. Thanks to the Mandela Government. This latest news shows how little the country has progressed in its thinking and even wanting to go backwards. Traditional values…. what is so right about those? It just shows a backward mentality enjoyed by the rest of the African nations. People need to grow up and taste reality rather than listed to these witch doctors and their Mumbo – Jumbo

    1. Interloper 7 May 2012, 11:02pm

      Oh dear how little SA progressed? You have no clue, do you?

      1. I do Interloper, being South African. Black Africans are as a culture homophobic. This is a fact. The only reason they included LGBT rights into the constitution in the first place was due to the ANC being desperate to show how different they were to the Apartheid government.

        1. Black Africans are as a culture homophobic

          There is no one single black African culture. If you must make sweeping generalisations, you could at least express your opinion that all black African cultures are homophobic.

  3. Dean Ismail 7 May 2012, 12:45pm

    why are these people so hell bent on opposing LGBT people? I really don’t understand. Mind you, it’s not only them in South Africa who are channeling their energy and time into calling for discrimination against LGBTs. This also happen in other parts of the world, such as places like Malaysia. If they are basing their hatred against LGBT on ancient scriptures (Koran/Bible etc), I would like them to look at those books again and tell me honestly if there isn’t anything in there that even the staunchest followers choose to overlook in this day and age. So clearly there is no justification in them using the teachings of these books as the basis of their hatred and discrimination against LGBT.

    1. Interloper 7 May 2012, 11:01pm

      … And the USA!

  4. Exactly, what is the difference between this and some practices in Apartheid – and what does what people who don’t follow those traditional leaders do in their own privacy have to do with anyone.

    They must lead their own followers, do their own thing and leave what and who doesn’t concern them alone to their own devices.

  5. Traditional Values is a nonsense. What they mean is Missionary Values or Colonial Values.

    1. Spanner1960 7 May 2012, 4:17pm

      Bollocks is it. It’s way older than that.
      It is tribal traditions.

      1. Spanner1960 7 May 2012, 11:33pm

        Red arrow me all you like. Anybody that knows Africa knows that geographical country borders mean nothing. The tribes and their leaders still hold more power than governments, and can sway opinion however they wish.

  6. idiots are racing to prove how ignorant they are. shame on all of them when Mandela dies it will be like zimbabwe

    1. bobbleobble 7 May 2012, 2:14pm

      My Dad works in South Africa and says it’s well on its way to Zimbabwean status already. Zuma is a useless leader who couldn’t run a bath let alone a country and everybody in power is more interested in what they can get out of power than actually helping the general population.

      1. Spanner1960 7 May 2012, 4:18pm

        The corruption is already everywhere.
        Apartheid already exists and it is very difficult for white people to get jobs. When Mandela dies there is going to a be a bloodbath of monumental proportions.

  7. Time to implement another boycott of the country if this apartheid goes ahead. History repeating itself.

  8. Jock S. Trap 7 May 2012, 2:15pm

    Ironic isn’t it that such discriminating comments come from those who frequently remind us how They were/are discriminated against esp in historical terms.

    Not all I know but you’d think that being that these people understand discrimination and it’s affects yet are happy to deal it out to others just because of the way we are born, would know better.

  9. South African equality going backwards…

  10. Anti Widdecombe 7 May 2012, 3:05pm

    These traditionalists should go back to the 19th centuary. How did they escape into this centuary?

    1. Spanner1960 7 May 2012, 4:15pm

      19th?!!
      Try pre-scripture. These people still go around believing in evil spirits and go around hacking up children with machetes, so do you really expect them to follow anything as forward thinking as “human rights”?

  11. Was their equality really worth fighting for?

    Have they learned nothing about the evils of discrimination?

    It’s no coincidence that the most developed countries are LGBT friendly

  12. My response to those who say their traditional cultures require an end to LGBT constitutional protections is that the sooner your culture becomes extinct, the better and it won’t be missed.

  13. johnny.33308 7 May 2012, 3:33pm

    It’s odd how those who were once persecuted seem not at all bothered by persecuting others. Here in the US it is the same….the blacks are more bigoted than the racist whites, saying that LGBTIQ rights is NOT like their struggle for CIVIL RIGHTS…..funny, even in S. Africa it is the same…… Apartheid is Apartheid and bigotry is bigotry….people are too stupid to see this fundamental yet simple truth. Sometimes makes me sorry I (truly)risked my life for the Civil Rights of blacks here in the US (beginning at age 5!) How utterly shameful of them, here and in S. Africa….they have become the OPPRESSORS! Disgusting display of blatant bigotry!

    1. What about Bayard Rustin? He was black and gay during the Civil Rights movement? So take a chill pill and stop thinking that all the blacks are out to get you. Some people are black and gay too!

      1. johnny.33308 7 May 2012, 8:14pm

        Yes, what the blacks did to Bayard was terrible and disgusting! I know his story well. And what the blacks did to the Jewiish people in the US Civil Rights movement was equally bad. I do not think that all blacks are out to “get” me, but many are against LGBTIQ people..polls show a much higher percentage of blacks than any other ethnicity against the LGBTIQ community.Of course there are gays who are black….there are gay people in every culture and ethnicity on this planet. I certainly never said or implied that ALL blacks are against Our People….I said exactly what I meant, you should not read other things into anyone’s writing, especially since you seem to wish to read negativity where none was meant or intended. By the way, the African countries most persecuting gays are incidentally NOT white countries….just a fact, not a judgment.

  14. Lumi Bast 7 May 2012, 4:00pm

    I don’t understand why people have to be so hateful. Even if they follow an anti LGB religion, there’s no legitimate reasons as to listen to it.

  15. Spanner1960 7 May 2012, 4:13pm

    Apparently the chicken bones told them to.

  16. GingerlyColors 7 May 2012, 4:23pm

    How would they like it if a proposal was made to delete the part of the constitution guaranteeing equal rights to all races? Would they like a return to Apartheid? They must remember that gay rights are human rights and black rights are also human rights and we in the gay community wish to see South Africa, once the monster in the south remain a beacon of hope for gay people on the Dark Continent and with positive noises coming out of Kenya long may it remain so.

    1. Gay rights are NOT human rights. They are NOT in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or in any international human rights instruments.

      1. Gay rights ARE human rights because gay people are humans and we deserve to be treated equally

      2. There is NO legitimate reason as to why LGB people shouldn’t have rights

      3. Neither the UDHR nor any of the other “international human rights instruments” contain a comprehensive list of human rights. How do you think the UDHR’s list of rights was arrived at in the first place? It was because countries which had already perceived the need for a particular “right”, and implemented it in their own legislature, lobbied successfully for its inclusion in the UDHR. (And similarly for the other international agreements). You are entitled to your opinion that “gay rights are not human rights”, but by citing their omission from international agreements as justification for your argument, you are relying on a ‘non sequitur’.

      4. @ Lumi. Why do you always make a point of ignoring the “T” in LGBT? Are you doing it for attention? Because your comments about how we should all have rights and are human are kind of tarnished when you actively promote discrimination against our own. Disclaimer: I am NOT a transsexual.

        1. It’s LGB, not LGBT. Sexual orientation and “gender identity” are two separate things. They really should not be grouped together. I say LGB because I support LGB people and rights.

          1. WINNER!!!
            Congratulations on your unintentionally ironic, thoughtless post. Black people who lived through apartheid reject equal rights for sexual minorities. Now GLB people are rejecting equal rights for T minorities?!?

            “First they came for the communists…”

          2. I don’t support T rights
            I support LGB rights because sexual orientation isn’t a choice and there is nothing wrong with it

  17. I hope the ANC stick to its policy and view the request only, and decline to change the law. Voodoo and any ritualistic culture has no place in a modern South Africa or indeed any place on this earth!

  18. They can say what they want, the ” house of chiefs” has no power and make comments to gain attention as they have no power. If anything it makes them look old fashioned and out of touch. This is the angle people should be using.

  19. These “Chiefs” are uneducated barbarians who’s people still fight each other and kill millions of their own people all the while AIDS kills millions more. Primitive slaves to the white Christian terrorist slave masters even now. No clue that they are suckers who have been tricked into killing themselves off the African blacks so the white Christian slave masters can take over their lands. America Harvard University is buying up land in Africa now over the size of France. These happen to be one of the many white Christian slaves masters in case you do not know.

  20. I find it quite bizarre that some people commenting here seem to think that the SA government is seriously considering this. These views come from a minority interest group. The ANC will listen to them as is the duty of the ruling party in a constitutional democracy but that’s where it will end.

  21. That There Other David 7 May 2012, 9:49pm

    Guys, to put this into context this is nothing worse than a Catholic Cardinal trying to dictate policy to our own government. There will be some support amongst their parliament for their views, just as there is in ours, but the ANC will not take anti-discrimination measures out of the Constitution. Not in this generation anyway.

    1. New Aussie 7 May 2012, 10:12pm

      Thank goodness someone is talking sense. Folks, these tribal leaders command respect but do not wield political power. If the clan chieftains of Scotland opposed gay marriage, it wouldn’t stop Holyrood legislating for it. South Africa has its problems but unwinding its constitution to take out gay rights is not on the ANCs agenda and probably never will be.

    2. Spanner1960 8 May 2012, 1:03pm

      It is a lot different.
      Tribal chiefs have considerably more power and control than religious ones in the West. Most political parties are based on tribes, not political persuasions.

  22. de Villiers 7 May 2012, 10:01pm

    The homophobia is unpleasant and, worse than that, deadly for many black and white gay Africans and South Africans. However, the reference to apartheid is almost superior – that blacks should know what it is to feel oppressed under the boots of whites and so should know better. It is a very western and white form of superiority.

    Similarly to the reference to the KKK. It is all a demonstration of how whites have been superior to blacks and so blacks should be humble and defer – and recognise that their suffering should translate into an appreciation of our white values of equality.

  23. Interloper 7 May 2012, 10:59pm

    Seriously people chill out. There are always people opposed to gay rights and SA is no exception. Even if this was ANC policy, which it is not, it wont get past the constitutional court. The traditional leaders are posturing so that people remember the actually exist. Dont lose sleep aboutit.

  24. The implications of traditional values are more than the trad leaders seem to understand. Although the comments and attitudes that I read here in the comments are just as bad aha. Wow people why not look to understand things rather throwing around quick, easy, hateful, and ethnocentric words…

    1. Actually I want to change what I said, many of the comments here are worse than what is going on in South Africa…

      1. Spanner1960 7 May 2012, 11:37pm

        Have you lived there? Do you know the people? Do you understand their politics? Unless you have like I have, you are talking out of your arse, and just lapping up Western media propaganda.

        1. I have never been to southern Africa but I have met enough southern Africans to have formed the opinion that not all black Africans hack children with machetes, or receive their instructions from chicken bones. Perhaps you could expand further on your experiences in SA.

        2. Spanner1960, I have never lived in South Africa, but I have now worked with dozens of African women who have been either refugeees or have entered my country as skilled workers. There is one big theme and problem in their lives- African men! So when I hear this bunch of old Chiefs making statements , I think of the TOTAL injustices that African women have to face, let alone GLTBI people in that continent.If you want to change Africa , educate as many girls as possible.

        3. When and for how long did you live in South Africa, Spanner1960?

  25. All of these old promiscuous Chiefs, should go and mind their own business and spend time sending all of their hundreds of wives to University, so the women can ultimately escape and get ‘real’ and independent lives!

  26. stop the aid from the uk to africa where are you cameron?

  27. radical53 8 May 2012, 3:39am

    Amazing how times change, but they don’t change at all.

    Seems to me that the world now wants to bring back the past.

    Gay rights legislation and laws are now showing that they are not worth the paper they are printed on.

    If laws are not enacted on, why make them.

    We should not take anything for granted, as much as we would like to.

    We will always be fighting for our rights, no matter what, even in the future

  28. Avalokiteshvara 8 May 2012, 9:36am

    People are gay because certain rituals werent performed? I sense a whole new gay cure moneymaking scam in the making, rather like the one when that gay BBC DJ was getting smeared with dead chickens and spat on in Uganda.

  29. Garry Cassell 2 Sep 2012, 2:08am

    As a Canadian I would plainly say you should elect new chiefs due to their lack of intelligence…they should stop making your country and a beautiful country at that look so stupid…

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