39% for seems quite hight, With a 1000 delegates worldwide, I wonder what the split of the votes against came from undeveloped countries.
I talked to one of the delegates yesterday and the majority vote consisted of mainly African delegates and American conservatives. No surprise there I guess. The delegate expressed feeling ashamed at their church, and hinted that a break up of the UMC, to separate the liberals from the hardline conservatives was becoming inevitable.
Gay conference confirms that Methodism is incompatible with Human Rights.
Thats ok, christian teaching is incompatible with making sense.
Once more I recommend all people of intelligence and goodwill to read ‘The Gay Gospels’ by Keith Sharpe; it’s an exhilarating taking apart of the traditional biblical basis of the Christian view of homosexuality – exhilarating and comforting. http://www.o-books.net or http://www.thegaygospels.com
This must be very painful for those people within the Methodist community fighting for equality and human rights. Perhaps they will have better luck next time, but is a 12 % swing achievable over the next 4 years bearing in mind that the African influence is growing in the church? Hopefully people will not become disheartened and abandon the cause, but will continue to fight for change.
I have been a member of UMC and have volunteered uncountable hours of service to the church both ithe US and in Germany. I for one am now officially out of there. My last act will be to sabotage my church’s website of which I was the webmaster for several years, announcing on the home page my reasons for quitting the church. My disappointment is immense. It is not a cause worth continuing to fight for anymore.
How ever you leave make sure that you leave with your integrity intact. Think before you post on the website.
you are quite right. I just made a course reversal on that rash decision.
As an atheist I can only stipulate that others find comfort in religion of any denomination (while at the same time I have a low opinion of organized religion in general). I think you are being only rational in moving away from a spiritually and mentally hurtful organisation and perhaps finding one that opens its doors to the GLBT community. I wish you luck with that, it sounds like a healthy move for you.
Does the ” United Methodist Church” include the (original) UK Methodist church or is it a US based offshoot?
The UK methodist church is a small conference of churches outside of the more global UMC.
John Wesley preached in the American colony for a few years, sowing the seeds for the formation of the UMC in later years. Most methodists groups outside of the UK are affiliated with the UMC and not the UK methodist church.
Thanks for the info. That’s what I thought. Unfortunately the UK Methodist church, although it has not issued as forthright a negative statement as the UMC, has a very wishy washy position on homosexuality generally and has been totally quiet on the current question of equal marriage.
what a shame. I tried connecting to a local methodist church while in the UK and was rather dissappointed by the narrow vision of the pastor.
Based on this very limited exposure I had the feeling that the American UMC is more liberal than the UK methodist church. The congregation of the church I attended had a working class mindset and was not particularly progressive. But, as I said, I am an outsider and not really sensitized to all the subtleties of English culture so I may have misread some things.
However, my intuitions kept me in the closet while visiting this church.
There is much variation from church to church. My father is a Methodist minister and university chaplain and has an extremely affirming and liberal attitude… well, he would have to!
ok a simple solution to this .. every gay man woman etc leave the church .. or dont put the tithe check in the offering .
withholding the money talks louder then most anything else .. this goes for all churches .. if all the gblt persons in these churches did this .. it would get their attention . also there are churches that welcome gblt ..the untied church of Christ being one .. look into it . .or you could write gay on your check or money .. but best would be to leave ..
I just did. I wrote to the Laiensfuehrerin of the church I work for in Germany and told her that I was no longer going to support the church and asked her to deliver a message to the. Bishop that I quit. I am sorely p****d off.
Good point. I remember Anglican clergymen on Television some years ago saying bare-facedly that they couldn’t support L&G relationships openly because the rich evangelicals would stop giving them money. A lot of pious folk upholding ‘traditional faith and morality’ are pretty corrupt and venal.
SO natural sexual relationships between concenting adult is too liberated for Weslian Superstition –
So evolve or get over it!
Evolve? Evolution is a lie. Magic created the world.
“an African delegate reportedly compared gay relationships to bestiality through a translator.”
Bestiality through a translator. Well that’s a new one on me. I guess that’s for when regular bestiality just isn’t kinky enough…
I AM SO ANGRY! I just quit the church for good!
The outcome that supports an out-dated perception about sexual orientation will take it’s toll. What saddens me most is the way many will doubt the integrity of “Christ’s teachings” because of this decision, and therefore, leave the church, disillusioned.
And JC never taught that homosexuality was wrong. So these people really aren’t the ‘christians’ they claim to be. In fact, hypocrites and liars. Now JC did have something to say about that though..
Whatever you feel about the whole premise of Christianity, the root of the problem surely lays with religious organisations not the religion itself. In my view religious organisations’ primary mission seems to be to recruit members, and love, tolerance and good works will always take second place. A case in point recently was the Vatican’s condemnation of a group of nuns for spending too much time helping the poor and not enough of the political issue of fighting against equal marriage.
No the problem is with both, two sides of one coin.
Paul – your arguemnt is flawed because trying to separate a religious organisation from religion makes no sense. Where religion is organised, the organisation IS the religion. To view “Christianity” as one religion is the equivalent of considering all books to tell the same story.
no its the equivalent of interpreting one story in different ways
Actually, I’ve read the new testament, the ‘christian’ bible. Nowhere did I read that Jesus Christ mentioned homosexuality or condemned it. So the Methodists’, among others, view that gay relationships are incompatible with ‘christian’ teaching are in fact lying. They can invoke the old testament all they want which isn’t ‘christian’, but if they do that, they they’d have to concede that they support the stoning to death of women for adultery, among many other absurd verses that would make life virtually unbearable for straights. No cherry picking please.
Paul actually makes some fairly offensive condemnations of homosexuality – male and female. These are the scriptures that Xians usually use to justify their homophobia. But you are right in that Jesus had nothing to say on the subject one way or the other.
People who refer to scripture to support their beliefs will cherry pick the bits that support their side of the argument. Old Testament, New Testament – either can be quoted or ignored at will.
yes, they cherry pick, but in different ways, and for different theological reasons. Christians typically alleviate themselves of obedience to OT strictures because they say that Christ fulfilled these laws… It is always astonishing to me that they can say that OT laws no longer apply except when it is convenient for them to throw them in our face.. such as Leviticus re homosexuality.
And when they revert to the quote in Leviticus they change the subject when you bring up stoning women for adultery, killing children for insolence or offer some absurd excuse to dismiss it. They’re all a bunch of liars and hypocrites, pure and simple. Cafeteria ‘christians’ at best, pick and mix. Jesus Christ didn’t do any of that that’s why they’re NOT ‘christians’, maybe in name only but that’s it. As Gandhi said…”i like your Christ, but I don’t like your christians who are so unlike your Christ”.
And some of Paul’s condemnation could be more properly aimed at homosexual child abuse than at homosexuality in general.
exactly… the word which has been incorrectly translated as sodomite or homosexual was catamite…. a youth being used by an older male for sexual services.
Silly people. There, there never mind UMC you will regret your decision, and you will have no-one else to blame but yourselves.
I just changed the home page for my (soon to be ex) church website to feature this story!
sorry …. I had a change of heart today!
…waiting to hear what you mean by a change of heart.. and why..
Doesn’t this just sum it up? That the “eternal truth” these people keep banging on about is as constant as the latest vote. Seriously, who cares what they think?
I guess it is the striving of people to be in accordance with what they think is God’s will, but is really the striving of humans to evolve and be better people…
or not when it is derailed by ignorance.
They are now just another anti gay Christian hate group and need to be labeled as such. LGBT people need to stop giving them money and go to a church that will accept them and give their money to them or groups that promote equal and civil rights for all LGBT people. The anti gay Christians have made it plain to see who is the real enemy is.
it would seem that the Methodist church is incompatible with Christian teaching.
Too bad. :(
Still, I did learn a lot from UMC’s Bruce Hilton’s book entitled ‘Can Homophobia Be Cured?’