so as homosexuals or bisexuals you must demand our freedom but then we remove freedom from hetrosexuals? yeah because that’s really gonna help our case in equlity, why does a bar need to be gay or staight anyway? if you can’t co-exist in our bars then how do we co-exist in society?
Hardly the same. Gay people can not be themselves in all bars and clubs. Straight friends are welcome but I bloody hate it when straight boys walk around pissed off at getting looked at and dry fuking a girl on the dance floor.
Well I for one have NEVER seen anything close to that.
And for myself, I would not want to.
Put me off me kebab……. So it would.
I fully agree with what this gay bar has done. It’s called a GAY bar. Not a STRAIGHT bar. When I go in to a straight bar, I must act straight. Straight people have been enjoying their plentiful bounty for millions of years. It’s time we BASHED BACK. Let us enjoy our crumbs in the corner. It’s time we took back our GAY Prides too. I am sick of seeing all these corporate sponsors fighting for the pink pound. They can shove it. GAY Pride is not about equality, GAY Pride is about us being QUEER, HERE AND PROUD. And to let all the stinkin’ straights know that we aren’t going anywhere! Stonewall and the White Night riots… lest we forget.
Viva a la Anarcho-queers! Unite!
This is how cancer cells behave.
It’s so simple. The Straights hurt you and now your going to hurt them back.
Simplistic. Grow up.
There is no such thing as a STRAIGHT bar.
There are gay bars and there are bars.
Gay men are not turned away from non-gay venues, so why should it not be the same in reverse? Just be aware of the environment you are in and behave appropriately.
Perhaps we should get different voting rights an seperate drinking fountains while we’re at it? A big line down the middle of the city?
Segregation is segregation regardless of it’s intent. It’s not “time to bash back” unless you waant to turn into a generalizing social collectivist really, do you have any reason to believe the straight couple would not have expressed support if this had happened to a gay couple in a straight bar?
And no, anarcho-anythings generally aren’t a fan of pointless rules.
Ugh. I understand that sometimes actions like this can be useful as political gestures, but they’re deeply problematic nonetheless.
What happens to bisexual people who visit the bar? Do they become suddenly unwelcome if they acquire the wrong partner? And what happens to people who don’t fit the binary gender model, or whose partners don’t?
In Denmark is it a normal accepted practise in straight bars to allow
gay couples to kiss?
Is it the practise that the bouncer will tell them they are conducting themselves in an inappropriate manor and need to leave?
Or do they just get hit by a homophope?
I don’t have a problem with this rule; I think it should be up to the individual establishment to make its own rules.
I don’t think I’d kiss my boy in a straight bar without having eyes in the back of my head!
Denmark has anti discrimination laws and is one of the most liberal countries in the world with regards to homosexuals, having been the first country to legally recognise gay couples in 1989.
I don’t think we should be lowering ourselves to the standards of the homophobe in our fight against it, that’s moronic.
My comments are based on what I live with here in Australia……You can get away with it in Sydney and Melbourne, but not where I live
Which is a shame, but I don’t think lowering ourselves to the level of homophobes in the way we treat our supporters and friends is a particularly intelligent approach.
My fella can only show his affection for me in a gay bar he doesn’t feel comfortable anywhere else, and it sure as hell isn’t gays that are making him feel uncomfortable.
If he was surrounded by straights making out with each other around him do you think he’d be comfortable enough to show his affection? Probably not.
When the day comes that I can walk down the street hand in hand with my partner without getting stared at, then I will 100% agree about equality for all, but while we are treated differently I have no problem with treating them differently on our home territory.
The only way straights will stop staring is if it becomes common, and the only way that’s going to happen if people like you and your partner start doing it.
You’re not legally allowed to get kicked out of a Straight venue for kissing so you shouldn’t be doing it to straight couples in gay bars. If you want to be as petty as tooth for a tooth the best you legally can do is look at them with mild intrigue.
I’ve been trying to tell him that for ages! My ex was the same, I personally have no problem with the odd looks, and I’ve occasionally had trouble but nothing to dangerous (couple of drunken yobs wanting to start a fight).
I know I wasn’t legally allowed to be kicked out, but you won’t stay in a venue your not wanted in and often if your a bit pissed you won’t go to the police.
I would love it if we lived in a perfect world where injustices where dealt with, but they’re not and until they are I have no problem with a bit of discrimination to the majority, they only have to deal with it on a rare occasion while the LGBT community is flooded with stories of it.
Just realised I hadn’t mentioned getting kicked out so part of this comment won’t make sense look further down
Then if they want to have an OS pick up they have straight bars.
Damn, you beat me to it!
tut tut, not up to your usual standard there, Jean!
Takes one to know one . . .
Come on PN. ALL web servers have logs. Apache, IIS etc. Switch on the IP filtering then you can hone this down a bit.
Or are you CONTENT to allow more GAY BULLYING.
Pots and kettles come to mind here.
This is a tricky one. Remember when Canal Street banned hen nights as flocks of straight women came to the village jumping on the Queer As Folk bandwagon? I think there’s is an argument both ways, firstly, it shouldn’t be an issue in a fair and equal society, however they want to protect themselves as a gay bar. In London, not 10 years ago, Heaven and G-A-Y would say on their flyers they operate a “strict gay and lesbian majority” this phrase was eventually removed, but at the time they bars were trying to protect their identity. Yes Canal Street has become “too straight” and frankly I don’t want some drunk straight teenage girl asking me if I’m a top or a bottom, so I choose to drink elsewhere – ironically, in straight bars. (where I don’t kiss my boyfriend)
There’s a difference between banning straight couples and banning various types of gangs/ parties. One is acceptable, the other isn’t.
I agree with Anthony, here. It is tricky, by by weight of sheer numbers straight people will overwhelm gay bars if the venue becomes attractive. the bar owner here seems to have his finger on the pulse; his comments about straight women ringing and inviting their straight males to come in, who then cause grief rings very true, and thereby hangs the quandary.
Hen/stag parties are also banned in hotels and holiday cottages etc. because having a big crowd of rowdy drunk people is disruptive and off putting to other customers, whether it is in a gay bar or a straight bar.
As such there is a massive difference between that scenario and this
Really bad move. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.
You really think it’s that simple? You need a gay history lesson.
You need to rise above tit-for-tat politics.
Well a bit silly really but I guess now they know how we feel. Mind in some straight bars we wouldn’t be told not to kiss…..just taken outside and beaten to a pulp.
I’ve been kicked out of a straight bar for kissing my fella, at the time I was young and naive and didn’t know the law so I didn’t go to the police, I’ve been told to stop aswell (at least not full on kicked out).
It’s been going on for a long while but no-one ever mentions it, the only reason why this is a story is because we don’t usually do it.
No no no no no. Bad policy, bad idea, and nothing but discrimination. If I were one of the patrons of this bar I would be about to make my last visit, to tell the owner why I would no longer be coming.
Personally I would be congratulating the owner, if I want to go out I don;’ want to have to play spot the gay girl in the sea of straight bitches. The last time I tried chatting a girl up she wandered off and started coping off with a guy she pulled away from his mates. He looked as surprised as I was. The bitch was lucky I thought better of smashing the bottle I was holding over her head.
‘… I asked him if it was not the same as saying that black people are not allowed to kiss in Never Mind…
not to bright though, if the black couple is straight then same rule would apply
i can understand the owner’s dilemma. regular bars are not just for straight people but heterosexuals are more comfortable in them because (unlike in case of gay people) nobody would bat an eyelid if they behaved in intimate way.
i dont think gay bars should be just for gay customers but straights equally shouldn’t be overtly comfortable with expressing negative comments or engaging in intimate behavior and its just matter of them acknowledging that these places are where “gays and lesbians can meet other homosexual people without having to consider whether it is a straight or gay person they are addressing.”
I see where they are coming from, nevertheless it’s a very problematic move to ban straight people from kissing in gay bars. I mean, we cannot cry discrimination on the one hand and do exactly that on the other hand in our establishments.
I’m sure there can be found a middle ground, for example shortly instructing new clients at the entrance of the bar that they are entering a gay establishment and that homophobic behaviour in any form will not be tolerated.
And making sure that policy is tolerated. We should use social networking to publicise establishments where the landlords don’t enforce that policy so that gay people know where to avoid.
Totally agree, Peter M.
It is a tough one! I used to run a gay bar in North London where one evening a straight couple were getting quite heavy in their petting! It was making my regular customers feel uncomfortable (as I am sure it may even have been too much for a straight bar). However, when they came up for air I politely asked them bear in mind that it was a gay bar and that their behaviour was making others uncomfortable and would they mind toning it down. THe apologised, went a bit red in embarrassment then left shortly after.
I think straight people do need to bear in mind their surroundings when in gay establishments and act with the same courtesy us gays have to when we are in straight bars and clubs.
It is a tough one, although I don’t support a ban on straight couples in our bars or clubs. I think both orientations should exercise restraint, no matter where they are. Heavy petting belongs elsewhere, getting a room is more appropriate.
I agree wholeheartedly! A quick kiss is fine in public but some people, what ever their sexuality, do take it to the extreme. I’m with my old mum on heavy public displays of affection, there is a time and place.
What this article does not tell us is if it was a full on, pratcially shagging each other kiss or just a quick kiss on the lips? If it was the latter then the ban is wrong.
So, it’s not acceptable for an establishment to ban displays of affection between a homosexual couple, but it is acceptable for an establishment to ban displays of affection between an opposite sex couple?
Ban all public displays of affection! – problem solved. Actually No talking ether.
..or heavy breathing.
I agree. Just drink and fck off. :)
That’s not very friendly. I thought gay people like us should have understood what it feels like to be marginalized and rejected. So, why do the same to the straight folks, especially when they are not a bunch of homophobes or crazy clerics. Definately not a wise move, I say.
What would happen in a sex club I wonder?
There are mixed sex clubs…
It’s an interesting idea as a political statement – sort of we can’t do it there, so you can’t do it here.
But I imagine that most straight people who visit a gay bar are our allies. It’s a sad day when we throw our allies under the bus to make a political statement.
Unfortunately, I don’t think that you can assume straight people in a gay bar are our allies. I am confident to the point of sure that I am not the only gay man who – whilst in a gay pub – has been asked by some pissed straight girl, “are you a queer as well?” or something along these lines. The kind of behaviour that should get them ejected instantly, but sadly doesn’t.
Or been attacked by an insecure straight man, as has happened to a few of my friends.
I wouldn’t ban it even if some straight men have a problem seeing gay men hold hands and kiss. They’re in gay venue, get over it. However, there really is no reciprocity in straight bars for gay couples, so that needs to be addressed. What I don’t get is why would straight couples want to go to a gay bar in the first place, especially since a lot of straight males have a problem with us? I can’t believe they’re just doing it to please their girlfriends and prove they’re not afraid surely? Something isn’t right about that. To put a cynical slant on it, or are they just trying to rub our faces in it that they’re the majority?
“To put a cynical slant on it, or are they just trying to rub our faces in it that they’re the majority?”
Quite simply, yes.
In my experience, straight couples enter gay bars with a heavy sense of entitlement. There is nothing ‘casual’ about members of a sexual majority behaving overbearingly in the company of the minority.
Heterosexual ‘privilege’ allows them to express themselves wherever – and however – they like, whereas homosexuality comes with cultural restrictions the ‘majority’ have traditionally imposed.
In other words, gay patrons have every right to feel resentment towards the very people who have, by and large, disapproved of our sexual relationships since time immemorial.
Stigmatising gays by telling us we’re against the natural law, then invading our space to assert their ‘normality’ – seemingly on a whim – often feels like being p*ssed on from a great height. Affinity can be learned but respect should come freely.
I once was in a gay club in Glasgow and being a chatty sort started talking to a woman who was waiting at the bar.
10 minutes later I was getting my head staved in for “chatting up this guys ‘bird’”.
Regrettable as that was, it wasn’t because you were gay it was because he was an imbecile and the management had sh*t security.
It was Security that was kicking my head in on the word of the imbecile.
In my experience the reason many gay pubs end up with straight people in them is because they have longer opening hours. When the straight pubs close, the straight punters come to the gay ones. So you can have the double whammy of intolerant straight people coming in pre-soused. In this case, the solution is simple. Forbid them entry on the basis they are intoxicated. Down to the landlords, though. What do they put first – safety and comfort of their gay customers, or additional revenue in what are hard times for the licensed industry.
This is quite true where im from the straight bars close at 3am latest and the gay bars are open til 6am on certain days it amazes me how far some straight people wonder just to carry on drinking.
I know a lot of my friends, male and female, straight and gay prefer gay bars or gay venues because the atmosphere is friendlier or more fun. My straight male friends don’t feel uncomfortable in those situations because we are all allies. I’ve never gone to any bars, but if I go out with my entire group of friends, we would have to decide on a heterosexual or homosexual bar, hell we might even trade off to be fair to everyone. So I wouldn’t judge all of us as trying to make a negative statement. Don’t forget about us allies! :)
It is a very unhelpful and outdated policy – unfortunately nothing has changed in these bars since the 1970s when gay subculture sought to create all-gay hideaways from mainstream culture. It is especially embarrassing that this policy has been highlighted in a year when the government in Denmark is expected to pass a marriage equality bill. These bars ought to embrace the values of tolerance and diversity – the same way the LGBT community is asking the world to embrace their rights,
Denmark already passed marriage equality and the law takes effect this June. Gay couples will be allowed to have not only a civil marriage but a religious marriage too. Something that should have been included in our own consultation.
No, we didn’t pass anything. It has been proposed but has not yet passed. It is currently being evaluated in “udvalg” – a smaller group of members of parliament evaluating the proposal.
Stick to banning fighting. Let everyone kiss who they want.
Ridiculous. Talk about living in the past. Gay bars are dying out because gay people no longer really need them and gay-friendly mixed venues are more likely to attract gay people. Most gay people do not socialise with an exclusively gay crowd. Gay bars need to wise up to this. They can have a gay theme but cater to all comers. It is frankly insulting to straight men to imply that they will all cause trouble. If we want equality we have to realise that it cuts both ways. I would much rather go to a mixed/gay venues where straight men were about as well.
In the UK it is illegal for all venues to discriminate against gay people anyway and I imagine it is similar in Denmark.
Gay bars used to be all about cruising and pickups. The Internet has put pay to most of that now, so gay bars tend to be more for groups of gay friends to meet up and not feel intimidated, but I do agree they are all becoming a bit more mixed and straights have to be aware that it is still essentially a “gay zone” and be prepared for possible consequences.
If they don’t like the idea of being chatted up by someone of the same sex, then don’t come in.
Are you denying that there is a problem with straight men in general when it comes to homophobia?
Personally, I find this excessive for a few reasons. Firstly, as a bi person, it would be frustrating if the bars here implemented similar rules, as where I could go would depend on whom I’m dating, or who I’m hoping to meet.
Secondly, what if these straight couples came so their queer friends wouldn’t have to be in straight majority bars? Are we never to mix?
Thirdly, why would we want to cause the same sense of exclusion to others that we’re trying to defend ourselves some?
Lastly, if your bar isn’t getting enough queer acting people in, and people are complaining about straight people, you need to either a) tell the queers to get their earlier or bring more friends so it’s stay a queer majority or b) look at your business model if you’re not getting the patrons you want.
To me, having an issue with straight people in the space who are getting hostile is appropriate and understandable; having an issue with a straight couple kissing is just petty.
Gay bars have stopped being safe for gay people any more because of the trendyness of going to them. I have had to have bouncers sort straight men out who refuse to take no for an answer, or actually grope you. Hen parties faghags, go to gay bars, and straight men follow them. I know men who have been punched because they flirted with a man who turned out to be straight in a sodding gay bar. We still live in a homophobic world and we need safe spaces.
Straight girls get all those problems too in straight places, the management there don’t have a policy of no men, they have policy where any aggressive behaviour isn’t tolerated. Time for the security staff in gay venues to learn how to operate in a professional responsible manner rather than just kicking people out for being the wrong sexuality.
The solution has to be to police behaviour more effectively. If straight people in a gay bar are a problem, it’s likely to be because of their behaviour rather than their sexual orientation.
All very nice kicking someone out after they’ve smacked somebody, doesn’t help things for the guy who’s been smacked does it.
I have been to Never Mind, and found it, and Copenhagen a wonderful city with a very free and easy lifestyle that fully accommodates LGBT people.
I do rather find this rather strange, as this is not the sort of thing I would expect of the Danes.
I’m currently living in Copenhagen, and let me tell you, it has caused a LOT of controversy since it happened about 3 weeks ago.
If they’re causing trouble then let the bouncer bar them and boot them out. Barring them for being straight is illegal and is a disgusing abuse that we had to put up with for a long time. The shoe being on the foot doesn’t make it right, just as it isn’t right in a straight bar to kick gay people out for kissing.
Good on the bar. It’s about time we stopped bending over and meekly accepting this pseudo-equality that’s anything but and actually stand up for ourselves again.
Maybe when I can actually marry my husband, or kiss him in a regular bar without getting stared at and beaten up… but until then, treat the straights as “equally” as they treat us.
And while we’re at it lets lump all heterosexuals into on homogeneous group known as “THE ENEMY” which must be said in as sinister way as possible ;)
I take it you’ve never faced homophobia from straight people before.
I have, and they’re a MINORITY of straight people who engage in it. You’re argument is like the one that is used against black people, i.e. A higher percentage engage in crime so lets discriminate against all of them. You’re a bigot.
A sizable, pretty large portion of straight people are homophobic, and depending on where you live it might be a majority
In your experience. This type of generalisation is not helpful to anybody
I get the idea but this is a bad move
sorry, if i would be in copenhagen i wouldn’t go into this bar anymore and i am gay. their behaviour is just mean and intolerant.
in a few days some of my best friends (a straight couple) come to visit me in london and i will take them to g-a-y. i hope there won’t be a problem like in copenhagen, otherwise i’ll be really pissed. they are my best friends and i simply wanna have a fun night out with them.
and regarding some comments: stop your childish thinking. “one kid hit me, now i can hit him back.”
besides your totally pigeonholing with “straight” and “gay” people. my friends would never stare at any gay couple kissing, so why punish them for what others are doing?
Are you denying that there is too many straight people in gay bars?
i’m pretty new in london and were mostly in g-a-y bar, g-a-y late and heaven. at least there the majority of guests is gay. i don’t see a problem and i feel really comfortable in these places. and yes, there are some straight people, but why not? and i’m happy that my straight friends are coming with me this weekend. i hope nobody feels offended by this ;)
How can you be sure that an opposite-sex couple identify as “straight”? I’m bisexual, and know plenty of opposite-sex couples where one or both members are bi. We want to be able to visit gay bars and ogle the cute women/men just like lesbians & gay men do!
Generally, straight couples means opposite gender, just like gay couples means same gender, even though the people in the couples might be bi
Helen-louise is saying that the people in the relationship may not be straight.
Why should bi people be banned from being in a gay bar because they’re in a “straight relationship”???
It’s really very simple…
They shouldn’t be banned, I never said that
She’s asking how we know they’re straight when they could be bi.
It’s really very simple.
And yet you wish to ban people who appear straight? Should there be a questionnaire to fill in or perhaps bi people can wear armbands?
I NEVER SAID THAT THEY SHOULD BE BANNED
I just think it’s a good idea. There’s no way to know really, so it’s not plausible. As long as it’s a gay majority and it’s safe, it should be fine.
Sorry, but bigotey in responce to bigotry is still bigotry…..
If we do not want our rights limited, we should not limit the rights of others…
It’s unlikely for me to visit Kopehagen shortly, but as a lesbian I guess this would be a bar to avoid!
Equality both ways guys common.
I love seeing my friends kiss as thry are happy together. Love should be celebrated gay, bi or straight
What’s love got to do with it? ;)
most of it is just drunken silliness a lot of people don’t even recognise them the next day ~ I see it all the time.
This is so wrong on so many levels. We cannot possibly shout and scream about discrimination by the straight community one moment and then turn round and copy them in the next. We must show by example that we are fully committed to equality for all, if we are to persuade them that we deserve the same right s as everyone else. So long as it is made very clear that the establishment caters primarily to the GLB community then anyone entering Gay or breeder must be acceptable. If however the straights act in an unacceptable or bullying manner then for sure throw them out. However kissing should not be a reason to throw them out. Remember the furore over the gay couple snogginbg in the straight Soho bar last year. How is this showing GLB in any better light. No, it is wrong and the decision should be reversed.
Even when all of the violence that permeates straight bars, worms its way into generally sanguine gay bars via heterosexual unthinking testosterone and booze riddled thugs and their bints.
This is the price that we MUST pay, if we wish to scream “Equality”
If your religiously inclined. “What the Lord Giveth. The Lord Taketh Away.”
If they wanted to hang out with their gay friend(s) they should have gone to a straight bar., they shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Gay bars are the places gay people go to because lots of other places aren’t safe, we can’t be ourselves, etc. If a gay couple kisses at a straight bar, they’re kicked out a lot of times, even beaten up, even killed, so until there’s equality for us, they shouldn’t be getting it. Leave our safe havens alone if you have an issue with it.
I don’t think it was right to kick them out, but they have no right to complain as long as their straight friends are kicking us gay people out of various types of businesses including bars
Ah yes, all straight people know each other an condone each other’s acts. What a moron you are.
It was an expression
And what I’m saying is as long as gay people aren’t safe at straight bars, then we should have the right to be safe in ours. Also, if we keep letting straight couples in, they’ll take over our safe havens/hangouts
It wasn’t an “expression” at all. You said they we should treat straight people in gay venues in the way that the worst straight establishments treat us. What’s wrong with happily co-existing in safe places with straight couples? I don’t see the issue, you ensure safety with proper security, not by kicking straight people out.
As long as they’re acting normally and not causing problems, it’s fine, but to allow a bunch of straight people in- no. It should be a homosexual majority and people who cause any issues should be thrown out. I also think that gay people should be able to feel safe- and with possibly homophobic guys going in there, that’s not cool. I know that people of all four orientations can coexist, but homophobic people and gay people can’t
That actually happens to the gay couples with or without kissing, and it can happen at or outside straight bars, and also gay bars if we let straight people run rampant
EXCELLENT POLICY! I SUPPORT IT 100%
quite often opponents to equal rights use the argument of minorities wanting special rights instead of equal rights and of course this is almost always not the case, it would seem to me however that some people DO want special rights rather than equal rights and i find that quite a shame, though the irony that the lie of the enemy turns out to have some truth to it with some people at least is not lost on me, if it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation than obviously this must work both ways otherwise it is not equality, the argument by some that this is ok because its been done (and in many places still is) to the gay community that its somehow ok, to use the old saying, 2 wrongs dont make a right
there are legal protections for gay establishments in the UK meaning they are able to “protect the character” of their club/bar. This means they are able to keep it how they like it removing large groups of straight people who cause problems for the regular and gay clientle, what the law doesn’t state is how this power is limited (if at all) this needs to be expanded upon so everyone knows where they stand.
There are more straight people in the world than gay. It is simply not possible to achieve equality unless the majority of straight people support and accept us.
What this group did was wrong. But worse of all they hurt the cause.
“It is simply not possible to achieve equality unless the majority of straight people support and accept us”
This. People think that just because a few straight people support us, it changes a lot of stuff. No, it doesn’t. Same with religious people- people are like “OMG! This priest is pro gay. Yay! Problem solved!”- no, the majority of religious people are homophobic
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind no?
I hate this no straight people rule. I once had to kiss a girl to get her into a certain bar in Canal Street because the bouncer was an ass and said no straight people are allowed. The girl is gay as well…
The only thing that annoys me is being hit on by straight men in gay bars, once is fine but if they persist it’s irritating. I think if these men pester lesbians they should be ejected and barred. Ditto women who harass gay men.
That’s another thing. I don’t want to be hit on by guys- I mean, hey, it’s flattering, but I’m talking about the guys who are like “I can turn you straight” “Let me watch” “You just haven’t met the right man yet” “Try a man” etc. If I wanted to be harassed, I’d go to a straight bar (I should still be able to go to one and not be harassed though).
Then there are the straight guys who get nasty when a gay guy comes on to them. It creates an atmosphere of intimidation.
Anyone who is harasses or intimidates anyone in any bar gay or straight should be thrown out. That is the responsibility of the security staff.
My friend was thrown out of a bar for sitting on a pint glass. It wasn’t his fault, it was dark, he didn’t put a pint glass on a chair but he was sent packing. If they can throw him out for that, dangerous drunks of any sex or sexuality should be a no brainer.
Yes, I agree, I was just using that analogy because I’m a lesbian
Then get them kicked out for harassment, not for being straight.
I agree, but it shouldn’t happen in the first place. Or at least be super rare. If we let tons of straight people in, it’s bound to happen a lot.
Because not only are the majority of straight people homophobic but also the majority of the men are some sort of sexual predators?
I can remember many years ago as a student arguing with a woman over the existence of the “women’s” group that barred men. My argument being that a men’s group that barred women would not be allowed by the council. Her response was that people who belong to an oppressed minority need a “safe” space where they can relax and be free from intimidation – either real or perceived.
Although it could be seen as a double standard, perhaps the double standard is justified in some instances. I think that applies here with gay clubs. A gay pub or club provides a safe space where gay people can relax. Although it should be just as acceptable for gay couples to kiss and hold hands in public, we all know that it is often not the case. Quite often gay people are putting themselves at risk of verbal or physical abuse for something as simple as a goodbye peck on the cheek at a railway station or when leaving a pub or restaurant. Having this “safe” space contaminated by the threat of verbal or physical dissent is the main objection to allowing straight people into gay pubs.
It’s a difficult case to argue because the slippery slope will take you to people being refused service on the grounds of a protected characteristic. Perhaps the answer is that the landlords of gay establishments run a tighter ship. Anyone who misbehave is kicked out. Don’t go to bars where the landlords don’t keep control of the situation.
Straight people overdoing the kissing in gay pubs/clubs – really annoying and poor taste. However, we fight for freedoms and fair play, not just for our own community, but for wider society and so I think we have to allow this type of behaviour. We’ve been offended all our lives – a couple kissing is the least of our worries.
This kind of thing plays right into the anti gay Chrstians propaganda.
It is possible that these “straight” people are really anti gay Christians who knowngly go to gay bars to disrupt and make trouble there. This makes bad news and gives the ani gay Chrstians a win. In all fairness it seems like a “straight” kiss is not a problem but people who make trouble for people a gay bar is a problem and like any bar that has trouble makers in it they need to be told to go. Some of these “straight” kisses might be bisexual kisses, so let them kiss and throw out the trouble makers or call the police.
Do you really think that you average religiously inclined individual in the UK gives a blind F about what happens in a gay bar in Denmark.
Not a Jot. Most are far to busy getting on with their lives and wondering if they can afford the petrol to get to work..
It is the well organized and funded that point these foibles out. Those who are afraid to lose their power over those they have indoctrinated.
IE. The Pope, Bishops, Churches, The Christian Institute,, Campaign 4 Marriage etc.
I cannot include politicians in that list as some of them are childhood victims of, again.
They are too many straight people in gay bars who find it okay to do what they want in gay bars. But when it comes to us kissing in those places, we get abuse!
Gay venues exist so gay people can feel
comfortable in a safe environment. That’s why excluding or restricting straights visiting gay venues has nothing to do with discrimination. If I wanted to be surrounded by straights I would visit a straight venue. I don’t understand why straights want to go to a gay venue anyhow unless they want to perve. This whole political game of making everything and everyone the same is now backfiring. Providing a save place for gays by excluding others has nothing to do with discrimination. What’s the point of running a gay business if it gets populated by straights? Preserving gay life style and gay identity by excluding straights has nothing to do with discrimination. Again, I really would like to know the motives of straights for wanting to visit a gay venue! What’s in it for them?
They have gay friends? Not all of us exclusively associate with people of the same orientation as ourselves. And why must you know their motive anyway? It’s none of your business.
Let me just say, as a straight woman, that when I go out the vast majority of the time I end up at the gay bar. Why? Because my 2 best friends are gay and that is where one of them feels most comfortable. Since I don’t care either way (I go out to the bar to socialize with friends and drink, not to pick up men) I end up letting my gay friends pick the bars 90% of the time. So we end up at the gay bars, where honestly I do not feel uncomfortable and I have always been welcomed (unlike the vibe at the bar mentioned in this article.) What’s in it for me when I go to a gay bar? A nice evening with my closest friends, some tast coctails, and some great conversation, the same at ANY bar I go to.
This isn’t right having been removed from a straight bar last year because two of my male friends were kissing I know how it feels with the excuse that it was inappropriate despite much worse happening elsewhere in the club. We need to be the bigger man and play the moral highground – you only remove people when they start causing a problem, anyone reporting anything which isn’t a problem is trying to cause one and they should be the ones that are removed.
Sorry that’s wrong. How can we be expected to be treated equally when we go tell straight couples they can’t kiss in our own bars! Idiots! Treats others as you would expect to be treated yourself!
We treating them as we are treated, we get throw out of straight bars/clubs, therefore we have every right to protect our venues from straight interference.
I AM GAY, and I support str8 ppl to kiss and what ever in there.
If this guy is not capable of even handling some little problems in a bar, without discrimination, then why the hell is he running one at the first place?
And most str8 ppl who go to gay bars are not homophobic, or they would have never gone there.
Gay people have made incredible progress as far as rights are concerned but this progress should not be made at the expense of straight people. We need the support of society as a whole if we are to continue our progress but if we start treading on the toes of other people they can quickly lose patience with us and a backlash could occur. We should be integrating our communities, not driving a wedge between them. Us gays want to be a part of mainstream society, not a group that has to exist on the fringes and only come out at night.
I can’t believe this. To deny straight people the right to kiss in a Gay bar is to deny them the same rights we have campaigned for for so long. Is this the way we want to go. I think not. This ban needs to be lifted immediately or it will make a mockery of all we have achieved.
banning straight people or couples from kissing is wrong. there should be more love in the world, not less!
Also below the Danish flag picture it says:
“Denmark recently approved marriage equality laws”
This is incorrect, the danish marriage equality bill has NOT passed as of yet!
the bill was just introduced about a month agoand all laws have to pass parliaments first remember!
Until then, when it passes parliament – then it will become effective from 15 June, 2012.
I agree that there is too many straight people who to go gay bars.
good on them. I wish this would be enforced in more of Londons Gay bars.
As usual, the owner of the club chooses to believe that bisexual people don’t exist. He assumes that the people kissing are straight. It’s very possible that at least one of them was bisexual. As is usual, the “B” in the LGBTQ acronym is ignored. Even when y’all have equal rights, we will still be oppressed!
A gay bar is only a gay bar if the people in it are gay. As soon as straight people start going there it stops being a gay bar.
That is absolutely ridiculous. As a gay man, I would be very angry if I was told not to kiss my partner in a mainly straight bar/club. Why should this be different for straight people?
Let me break it down. Gays=minority. Straights=majority. A gay couple should be allowed to kiss in a straight club. They should have equal rights…but when straights kiss (or whatever they do) in a gay club, they invade the safe place of the minority.
It is not about giving or refusing the same rights to straights simply because they already have all the rights by being the majority.
Bottom line it comes down to protect the minority and to educate the majority.
Only because we fight for equal rights, doesn’t mean we are the same. We are not. We are after all different and it is this difference that we need protected, acknowledged and appreciated by the majority.
Having members of the majority (straights) exchanging fluids in a gay club is a slap in the face of the minority for which a gay venue is a safe place.
The fight for equal rights should not lead to an eradication of our differences. They should be cultivated, rather, isn’t this what we want?