Wasn’t aware that he was a bible scholar? Does he not think that homosexual Christians exist who can reconcile both ‘what the bible says’ and their sexuality?
Since when do you have to be a bible scholar to find lots of contradictory and offensive crap in there?
Since the anti-gay behaviour of organised religion has been reaching fever pitch, I am inclined to think that homosexual christians are all out of their bloody minds.
Your churches tend to hate you. Did you not notice this?
Religion is not the same has personal faith.
I agree Spanner. I have my personal faith but not in the Bible or the Church. I have said this many times before Jesus never preached in a Church and there is the fact that Churches are all about money and not about God. Again as I have said before the Bible was interpreted by men so who is to say there wasn’t any misinterpretation while they were translating it! Jesus preached love and acceptance. ‘Christians’ preach hatred and judgement that is not theirs. Religion has been turned into this exclusive club that unless you are a member you are ‘evil’.
I wonder how many Jewish members remained in the National Socialist German Workers’ Party after 1939?
A “bible scholar”. That would be someone who reads fairy tales and comes to a conclusion that agrees with yours, NicolaB? You don’t have to be a “Bible scholar” to read the bible any more than you have to be a “Harry Potter scholar” to read Harry Potter.
Is he aware that gay Christians (all Christians really) can pick and choose which bits to apply, thereby undermining the integrity of ‘the word of God’ and showing the entire book to be bullsh-t?
Yes, I think he is.
NicolaB, if you believe in the bible, you have to believe in all of it, including those references Dan Savage made. Why can’t you be honest? You can’t have it both ways dear. The bible supports and condones slavery, the stoning to death of women for adultery, the killing of children for insolence, polygamy (Solomon, among many others) had 300 wives, Adam and Eve committed incest and their children likewise to have populated the earth, the eating of shellfish is forbidden, any fibre with more than three threads, shaving one’s beard is prohibitied, the list is endless. You and your kind have proven yourselves to be hypocrites if you can’t live according to the bible. You are NO christian.
Michael Vines video on the bible and homosexuality is a must see for any gay guy, especially gay Christians.
Savage is pointing out that christians conveniently ignore clauses that give permission to have slaves, that allow the stoning of women who are not virgins on wedding day, all the nonsense about eating shellfish and wearing polycotton – So why not throw out the BS about gay people as well?
It is more a comment on the capacity of christians to be cherry-picking bloody hypocrites over which clauses they hold as the immutable word of god, and which they can conveniently ignore.
I might have preferred it if he used a slightly different variation of language – But christians have been using their odious blood-spattered tome to damn us and it is long overdue that the cognitive dissonance required to do so be cast in their faces.
They are nothing but the bully who snivels and wets his pants because his victim has swung back.
Bear with me a bit, please:
The Old Testament is all about symbolism. It was modeled in such a way to not only prophesize about the coming of Jesus, but also to show that there is a holy law and that we will reap what we sew in life. In this way animal sacrifice (sounds barbaric, now, right?) for forgiveness of sin was a symbol of the prophesized savior’s coming(see below for a blind blowing fulfilled prophesy with dates, from the Bible) to be the ultimate sacrifice for mankind, a savior who would be without blemish and who would ultimate be “sacrificed” for our sins.
While we no longer live under the old law, as Jesus’ arrival ushered in the prophesized new law, it only reflects that we are no longer slaves to the law. Jesus’ fulfillment of prophesy has set believers free from the old law, in the sense of its symbolism and its eternal punishments for law breakers.
. However, the old law is still applicable to all in the sense that those without the spiritual cleansing of Christ, through faith, will still be accountable to the law and its punishments at the great judgment, and will not receive grace (freely given to those who believe) and its justification through faith in Christ Jesus.
With all this said, in my belief, with the ushering in of the New Law through the fulfillment of Prophesy in Jesus, and the lessoning of the importance of the Old Testament prophesy ( in symbolism, not in using it as a reference to prove Christ’s authenticity and its usefulness in declaring those things that are unholy and will be punished upon death,(and even sometimes in life)) in the sense of the establishing of the law and its punishments and rewards
, are actions of Christians should be different in response to those things considered unholy around us – the stoning of adulterers for example, as the establishment of the law and its punishments were already solidified in the Old Testament.
The New Testament (John 8:7) says, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” With this being said, and the part that will probable further anger some of you, I believe homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. However, I personally am not without my own sins, nor is any other man/woman. While I feel like we should speak out about it, it should not be done with an air of self-righteousness, nor should it be punished by stoning or any other such manner. We are ALL sinners and in need of salvation.
The Scope (Dan 9:24)
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy Place .
The idiom of a “week” of years was common in Israel as a “sabbath for the land,” in which the land was to lie fallow every seventh year.2 It was their failure to obey these laws that led to God sending them into captivity under the Babylonians.3
Note that the focus of this passage is upon “thy people and upon thy holy city,” that is, upon Israel and Jerusalem. (It is not directed to the Church.)
The scope of this prophecy includes a broad list of things which clearly have yet to be completed.
Blah blah blah
In order for the Old Testament teachings to have any relevance to Christianity they must be supported in some way by the New Testament. The teaching that homosexuality is a sin hangs on: 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:9-10; and Romans 1:26-27. The first two are mistranslations of ancient greek and the third is a gross misinterpretation of idolatry worship by an Ancient Roman Cult. This renders Leviticus 18:22 obsolete and ritualistic (like the rules on food and women’s periods of menstruation) and the shows the rest of the stuff in the OT to be read completely out of context.
So I’m afraid that even if one were to bow to a theocratical state, your explanation though very eloquently written, really doesn’t fly.
J – the “symbolism” and “we no longer live under the old law” arguments are easily dismissed. If some of the Bible is meant to be taken literally and other parts are symbolic, how are we supposed to differentiate the two? Only by applying our own interpretation of what is written. As for the second part, Jesus said he did not come to replace the law, but to fulfill it.
Jesus never existed. Bronze Age myths and the gibberings of long dead sheep and goat hearders are not worth thinking about.
Try this on for size, your religion is nothing but a collection of individuals over long periods of history controlling large numbers of other individuals for power and money. Bin it and be free. Jesus never existed it;s a delusional story.
Even atheists disagree with that:
Bart D. Ehrman (born 1955) is an American New Testament scholar, currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. While Ehrman is a leading New Testament scholar, he has also achieved acclaim at the popular level, authoring four New York Times bestsellers. His best-known works at the popular level are Misquoting Jesus and Jesus, Interrupted. Ehrman’s work focuses on New Testament textual criticism and early Christianity. Ehrman became an Evangelical Christian as a teen. In his books, he recounts his youthful enthusiasm as a born-again, fundamentalist Christian, certain that God had inspired the wording of the Bible and protected its texts from all error. Try again Raydar this guy is no atheist and by the way Jesus never existed either.
Osric: You need to go beyond Wikipedia for your research. Ehrman, while a NT scholar, is an atheist.
Bart Ehrman tells his story of going from evangelical behavior to agnostic.
Agnostic a person who hold that the existence of the ultimate cause is God.
Athiest a person person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
I repeat, Ehrman is not an atheist and jesus never existed either.
No, the Old Testament is a bucket of drivel, invoking a psychotic supernatural hobgoblin to excuse acts of butchery and ethnic cleansing. It is full of magic tricks and crytozoology and a bizarre fixation on foreskins. It’s bunk.
Thank you for sharing wonderful piece of writing! ..
Looks to me that some of them ‘walked out’ before he had actually started dissing the bible – maybe it was planned – just saying . . . . .
Yes, they just can’t handle the truth. I can’t believe none of them knew of Dan’s sexual orientation and his views on religion. I think you’re right, they staged it. It would have been more genuine had any of them heckled him but none did. One or two were grinning as they walked out.
Maybe it was planned. Or maybe a lot of the students had no particular interest in the talk, one way or the other, and saw an opportunity to head back to the common room.
im guessing a few home truths hurt for the homophobic people.
Quite. It’s OK for them call us wicked and abominable and against god or against nature. If we call them hypocrites and liars – and provide irrefutable evidence that this conclusion is just – they get all tearful and run off. Bullies don’t change whether they are in the playground or the pulpit.
2nd go -
seems like they started to walk out before he had started dissing the bible – maybe they planned to walk out regardless – just saying . . . . .
The usual religious habit of ignoring the truth for the sake of a belief in an invisible friend. Sad!
You are such an idiot. It’s so simple. The Christians hurt you, and now you’re going to hurt them back.
There is a difference between arguing & debating with people and insulting & disrespecting people.
Yes there are Christians that never made that distinction.
But you should!
“Insulting and disrespecting”? He pointed out that people cherry pick from their scripture. That claiming “the Bible tells me to do it” is no defence because these people quite happily ignore other things their bible tells them to do. The only reason these people feel insulted and disrespected is because their hypocrisy is being exposed.
I’m an idiot?
“There is a difference between arguing & debating with people and insulting & disrespecting people.”
There’s also a difference between respecting the right to hold a belief and respecting a belief.
As a matter of treating people honourably no matter who they are, I do believe theGentleWarrior is correct in his point. We as gay people don’t want to be anyone’s acceptable targets. But as a broader wisdom, no category of human beings should be acceptable targets. People should be judged as individuals, and not as members of a category.
Oh poor ickle christers, can’t handle what they hand out all the time
Maybe it was because Savage was spouting too much ‘santorum’. !!
There is a difference between arguing & debating with people and insulting & disrespecting them.
Yes there are Christians that never made that distinction.
But you should!
Oh such bloody bunk.
Savage was addressing the largely socially acceptable and institutional level homophobia that is ruining lives for LGBT youth, and sometimes ending them. To put a heckle about the buy-bull on the same level of that is so ridiculously dishonest that it is laughable.
We are routinely told that anti-gay behaviour is NOT a requirement of christianity, and that many christians are not like that. If that is true, then the people Savage addressed are those who have made the distinct and entirely conscious decision to pick the most hateful interpretation.
And THAT, dear, is not worthy of respect.
A planned walkout. Sad to see so many young people who cannot think for themselves, or allow their superstitious belief system to be critqued.
Do people really still believe all that god mumbo jumbo???
Or maybe they were thinkingfor themselves.
Yes people do if you would except him into your heart and believe that he died. On that cross for all of our sins you would knw that he is God and his word is the truth. Biblical.instructions before leaving earth
Mr. French let me ask you. Who was Dan thinking for? The young people walking-out or for the ones who stayed and applauded Dan’s errors by his cherry picking acts of a different dispensation of the bible and trying to apply it in this new relationship we have now with GOD. Clearly wrong and out of context. When someone applauds something they are saying I agree with you. These kids agreed with error and did not check to see if true or not and if they did not check then they permitted Dan to think for them.
RE: your comment: “Do people really still believe all that god mumbo jumbo???” You know someone said that humans beings need to believe in something because with something to believe in then they have nothing to live for. Let me ask you, What do you believe in?
Brave, Dan Savage!
Brave? or Foolish?, Dan Savage! Lot’s of heart yes, but Intellect has has never been his strong suit.
This from an admitted Gay and Catholic. Do you remember this from your dear old Pope?
In a strongly worded attack, Benedict XVI insisted that marriage should be founded on the “indissoluble” marriage between a man and a woman. Addressing a huge crowd at the shrine of Fatima at the climax of his four day visit to Portugal, the 83-year-old Pope said that same sex marriage and abortion were among the “most insidious and dangerous challenges that today confront the common good.”
The Vatican regards being homosexual as a “deviation” and an “irregularity” and the act of homosexual sex as a sin.
In December a leading Roman Catholic cardinal reinforced the message, saying that homosexuality was an “insult to God” and that homosexuals and transsexuals will never go to heaven.
Gay and Catholic what are you nuts?
And Ratzinger (aka Benedict XVI) should be 1. apologizing and 2. forced to step down. I have never shied away from this view with Christians.
Ratzinger does get a pass because he’s Christian.
Savage doesn’t get a pass because he’s gay.
And you don’t get pass because your an idiot.
-”Ain’t Nobody Above an Ass-whoopin”
As for your leading “leading Roman Catholic cardinal” I refer you to a leading Anglican Bishop
Gene Robinson, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/andrew_marr_show/7504077.stm
I have your opinion of being ‘Gay and Catholic’ with reference to me. Now I want to hear your opinions of this great man. Show us again that disrespectful tone of yours, your insults and your simple wit.
Gay and Catholic remember? Infallibility of the Pope remember? Forced to step down? Are you sure you are a Catholic and not one of those horrible heritics? The point about your Roman Catholic Cardinal stands, the point about Benedict XVI stands, that is the official policy of the Catholic Church. As for Anglican Gene Robinson, a delusional with good intentions is to be preferred over a delusional with bad. Dan Savage tells the delusionals home truths and they don’t like the truth. I applaud and commend him “Aint’t nobody above an ass whoopin” really? Do let me know how you get on when you pop down to speak to someone in the Vatican about how you think Ratzinger should apologize and then be forced to step down won’t you?
Wow. Great speech. I saw one girl walk out even before any negative reference to the bible was made. Some Journalist she’ll make! Fox news have probably already offered her a job.
Intellectual honesty is not exactly a hallmark of christians.
“I doubt that our own behavior will distinguish us in the annals of diplomacy”
Great speech! compared to what? Even if you agree with what he says, it is hardly great!
Who made you the benchmark? Yes that’s right nobody did.
Ignore him, Osric, he’s a racist fool.
Very poor anachronistic interpretation of scripture and deplorable misrepresentation of Christians as bullies.
I see Pink News has not commented on the following -
Religious persecution of LGBT people in the US is radical and extreme and very very aggressive. Cry all you want, but unless you have been living at the bottom of a well it is deeply dishonest to not have noticed this.
And the buy-bull is full of contradictions and nonsense. Christians are all cherry-picking hypocrites, the very nature of your holy (nonsense) text of choice makes it unavoidable.
Oh, and with regards to the story you linked, that story lacks one thing that the news tends to favour – evidence. No one knows what actually happened. Evidence and/or credibility are sorely lacking.
After all, if I was to heave a brick through your window and then sent a letter to the local paper claiming that I did it and I was the illuminati, they should ask serious questions about whether that is true or not.
Oh yeah, because christians have never bullied anyone. Duhhhhh. Honestly, the brains of some people. Do you really want us to link to all the articles which reveal christ-insanity to be an intolerant and hateful religion?
Is a broken window really the worst you can find. Here’s a link to a lovely christian organisation who do much worse than put bricks through windows……
Very poor anachronistic interpretation of scripture. I thought the bible was supposed to be timeless? Isn’t that one of the arguments? That god’s law is eternal?
They don’t like it when it is dished back do they?
They can dish it out- but they can’t take it themselves!
And these kids want to be journalists yet they walked out at the very first mention of the word Bible? Yeah, they are pansies! (Good call, Dan.) Good riddance to them. I hope they kept walking all the way home to their Bible fearing homophobe parents.
That’s great, you think calling them Pansies will bring them and others onside and realize the error of their ways?
Who ever gave you that idea, must come from where the air is real thin.
I defy you to find something to call them that “will bring them and others onside and realize the error of their ways”.
The lights are on, but nobody’s home.
Looks like the religious delusionists are getting that long over-due kick up the arse they have so well deserved. Not much chance it will put any rationality in them though. Brain washed idiots.
Kicking Bishop Brennan up the Arse. How did that one work out for Father Ted again?
Father Ted is a made up character just like Bishop Brennan, just like Jesus is a made up character, you know fiction as in made up, not real. The religious delusionals can’t get the difference can they between what is real and what is made up? Jesus never existed, the so called life if Jesus is no more real than the “Life of Brian” both made up, fiction, not real,
You’re actually invoking fiction… I suppose that is apt, since we are talking about fiction.
The trouble with Christians is there’s never a lion around when you need one.
anti bullying? is this guy not a prime example of a bully himself…double standards….people have the right to walk out especially when someone un- necessarily starts using offensive language towards their faith.
Ahh the “help help I’m a victim” card.
Organised religion has drawn this battle line. We did not invite it. And be damned will we wit back and be victimised by it.
Oh, and what he said was hyperbole. Which anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would recognise. He can’t actually hurt you, dear, so get down off the cross, we need the wood.
You know the “It gets better” campaign is a direct response to the suicides of young gay men,because they were bullied & insulted and isolated to the point that they took their lives . And knowing this, or you should, how did you arrive at the conclusion that word’s “can’t actually hurt”?
” And be damned will we wit back”, fix your spelling and grammar please
And all that aside I like your cross & wood joke.
Name us one single christian like for like with the growing numbers of teenage gay’s who has killed themselves because of anti-christian bullys. Just one example will do that can be verified, just one!
Well said Lisa.
Oh my… As a gay person myself, I found that comment in…poor taste. It brings us down to the level of broad condemnation that too many use against us. There are abusive people in the world, but we don’t need to be counted among them. We should be better than those who treat us so abusively. And we should judge people as individuals based on their own strengths and their own flaws, rather than by virtue of their orientation or their religious affiliation. Is that not only just?
Precisely. The “Christians” were planning a walk out in any case.
All staged! Even in that, they’re dishonest and so called ‘christians’ are supposed to stand for the truth. Hypocrites.
What Dan did was foolish. No person will listen, if you swear & disrespect what they hold to be sacred.
He could have made his point without saying ‘bulls**t’. By Swearing about the bible he is alienating people and it does nothing to address the real issue, homophobia.
Gays, atheists are already on side for us, we don’t need to keep rallying them. What you need to do is reason, find common ground with Christians, not alienate them/us! (I’m Gay & Catholic) Oh and to add to it he’s given FOX News a sound bite “I’m done beating up the bible.” They’ll be using that about Dan for the next 2 years. I say this praying he doesn’t try to outdo himself.
The best thing Dan could do for us, the cause now, is to properly apologise i.e. “I was disrespectful, I should not shave sworn and I apologise.” Get it over with & put it to bed.
Now I refer you to an article/video with Bishop Robinson & Ian McKellen to show you how it is done
Right on Dan! In other words Christians….HOW’S IT FEEL!”
Something tells me, you don’t read very well, shame.
Something tells me you are a prick.
Sad that you think we owe it to our oppressors to apologize. We don’t owe them respect and we don’t owe them false kindness until they bring respect to the table as well. And criticizing the religion that has been interpreted over and over to stigmatize and oppress us is not the same as bullying an isolated gay kid. People who will be alienated by that are not people who would be willing to direct deep critical thought to the problematic aspects of their religion and learn to accept queer people anyways.
You don’t owe it too the them! You owe it to yourselves, to be better than those that hurt you. You owe it to the cause, to do what needs to be done, not to do only what you want!
“….. not the same as bullying an isolated gay kid” very much agreed, but I never said religion was blameless.
I care about what this does to us, to the cause, not what it does to Christians or bigots.
>”People who will be alienated by that are not people who would be willing to direct deep critical thought to the problematic aspects of their religion and learn to accept queer people anyways.”
-That is beyond wrong! If people did not change their views (however slowly) sodomy would still be a capital offense. You sir, are in sorry need of a history lesson.
I expect more of you.
“Because if we learn from history that the struggle goes on… eventually we will win. And all the president has to do is – or the governor -is to turn the pages of history a little faster.” Harvey Milk, 1978
(I’m Gay & Catholic) Really, honestly? Oppressed and delusional is it?
You want to actually try to defend the Catholic Church and christiantiy here on this site above all others? Must be very difficult for you to understand that Jesus is a fiction and that Church you kneel in and hand over you cash to hates your guts and in past times would have burnt you alive, but it might be an idea to give it a go for your mental healths sake, possibly, just a suggestion.
This is case and point. If you want to make progress or have real power, put aside your hurt and anger.
Had you said “how do you reconcile your faith with the position of the church or with evidence?”, I could have looked on you as an adult worthy of debate but “Oppressed and delusional is it?” will you get you know were. I no longer see a strong adult, I see a hurt child still upset because people don’t like you, powerless to change it.
I don’t “hand over you cash” & won’t until official Church policy is changed.
“in past times would have burnt you” so would your government, your neighbors, your family…
“& then one day that child might open up a paper and it says “Homosexual elected in San Francisco”…
and there are two new options. One option is to go to California … or stay in San Antonio and fight.” – Harvey Milk, victory speech, 1978
Oh I didn’t yet get your opinion of McKellen or Bishop Robinson? Did you watch the video? Would like to extend the same insults to them
Do stop trying to put a gilded frame on a very bad picture. Religion is for delusional people. You want to be a delusional fine be one. Believe in any ficta personae you want to. However delusionals don’t get to impose their delusons anymore at the point of a sword or a gun. They don’t get to corrupt governments and control the press to promote their particular delusions. So no you don’t play the Catholic and the Gay apologist. Having sown the wind the christians now are reaping the whirlwind and I sincerely hope it blows away from humanity all religion’s capacity to do harm to it.
“You want to be a delusional fine be one.” Please insert ‘person’ between ‘delusional’ and ‘fine’ for better structure and grammar.
“sown the wind” Are you blind to what Dan has sown today? Dan’s comments aren’t going to get that “blows away from humanity all religion” outcome your looking for. By the way with that statement it is clear you are trying to convert, ‘m referring to your other statement/lie “We don’t actually want to convert anyone”
Your response it lacking in answers to my questions or points
So were is your alternate plan to successfully fight without, intelligence, reason or honor?
And still no opinion given about Ian McKellen or Bishop Robinson?
“If you want to make progress or have real power, put aside your hurt and anger.”
Patronizing rhetorical nonsense. Quel surprise.
What those Jesus Freaks hold sacred is genocide
GentleWarrior, I disagree. I think these kinds of appeals are very peruasive with the huge numbers of people who are on the fence with issues like these. They may be christian and they want to be accepting of gays, but need to see a way to reconcile the two.
RE: The “Christians” were planning a walk out in any case.
Maybe, then what a shame that Dan gave them the justification they needed for the walk out.
Imagine, if Dan didn’t insult the bible and they still executed a planned walk out. They would would very silly.
But instead they now they look the victim and very sympathetic.
And while many of you are patting each on the back here in the safe environment of a gay news website were others reinforce your beliefs.
Take a broader look on the web, dare to check out enemy sites, because outside of pinknews the story has a very different negative spin, to a very large audience. And that’s a problem
They still are very very silly. The Day of Dialogue is meant to be everyday, unless there is a gay person or their allies speaking out – then walk out.
The things unfunny people say.
He didn’t “insult” the sodding bible. He asked why some christians are able to conveniently overlook the carnage, cruelty and barbarism (which is in the bloody thing) but still cling desperately to the clauses that serve their agenda. THAT is the question.
The bible does endorse slavery, it does endorse misogyny, it does endorse a great many deeply unpleasant things. And yet christians have this of so bloody nifty trick of being able to say which bits have cultural context, which are allegory, which are mistranslations and which are the immutable bloody word of god.
THAT is the arch hypocrisy that Savage was calling out.
I am a Catholic & I wish to disassociate myself from any of my homophobic bothers and sisters of the faith that pick and choose which bits of the faith they wish accept, and forget the other bits such as loving all etc. Thankfully not all of us are like this and some of us, like me are very accepting of LGBT people. How can we not be? Who am I to judge? I am no ones judge… The Bible tells us to not judge, and to love those in our world regardless of whether we agree with someone or not. While I would not wish harm on anyone, I have felt for a long time that one day this total disrespect to LGBT people would come back to haunt such people and it seems that day is finally coming!
You cannot on the one hand say you are a God fearing Christian, then on the other hand use all manner available to hurt others.
I choose to love all people and I am proud of that fact!
I just hope you guys know that not all of us are like what you have maybe experienced or read about.
They can dish it out but they can’t take it! Typical Christian weaklings! Always the victim, never the bully! Yeah, right! They disgust me! And I trust they do the same for most of you as well! It is past time to begin hitting back! No more nice!
Your angry. I’m angry. I’m not saying don’t hate or fight back. I’m saying fight smart. Fight to make a difference, not to start a pointless brawl.
For someone who is big on spelling and grammar, you need to check your own…
And your day is over. Taking the high road is not working, and people are dying.
How is calling people out on their hypocrisy starting a “pointless brawl”? These bigoted, hateful people need to be shown up as hypocrites and liars. It may not change their minds, but it is likely to expose them to others. I’m less interested in winning the hearts and minds of those who would oppress us and are unlikely to change than I am in swaying the larger majority of people who are not hateful bigots.
“I’m saying fight smart. Fight to make a difference, not to start a pointless brawl.”
LOL! And we take a racist advice for direction??? Please. Back to the swamp.
So Dan Savage is making himself a victim, and becuz he is such a victim, he feels he has a right to be offensive. Grow up, Mr Savage.
Dan Savage illustrates the hypocrisy of using the Bible to justify bigotry by claiming “I can’t help it, it’s written in the Bible”, yet ignoring the bits they don’t want to follow. You consider pointing out that hypocrisy as “offensive”? It’s not Dan Savage who needs to grow up.
YOU need to grow up. So called ‘christians’ equating equal civil marriage with polygamy, incest and bestiality is beyond offensive. Polygamy for example is an uniquely heterosexual aberration and condoned in the bible and so was incest. ‘Christians’ can’t pick this or that to suit their agenda by selectively singling out verses to justify homophobia. They either believe in the bible or they don’t. not just parts that are incompatible with modern living. Proof they are hypocrites and bigots. Jesus Christ NEVER mentioned homosexuality or condemned it.
Dan Savage got some steel in his spine to make such remarks. Maybe it was a little blunt and he made an impact, and that’s commendable.
Now imagine if he’d been called a pansy
My guess is that it wouldn’t be a first, but you can guarantee the person sayiing it will be christian who thinks it is his or her ‘god’ given right to say it. Now imagine if christians finally get it through their thick skulls that their particular brand of fantasy does not give them any special rights, they are just like the rest of us. Have you imagined that?
Yep. All the time. It’s part of orthodox Christianity. We are all the same. It’s in the Bible you know. Perhaps if people read it rather than reading what others say about it.
That is a blatent lie. Your christiantiy constantly cuts out individuals as lesser,different, and has all too often destroyed people for those ‘differences’. That repulsive collection of fictions and madness you call the bible is a call to murder anyone it marks as different.
No need to be rude. I haven’t called you names or sat and judged you or act in a prejudiced manner about your beliefs and you come out with all that hate. Poor show. Never any need for being like that.
You really could do with reading the Bible. Might I suggest you start with Matthew 5 to 7.
Thankfully I don’t have any beliefs. As for reading the bible I would rather gargle with cat excrement than handle that disgusting item. I suggest you might read The God Delusion start at page 1. I am not calling you names or being prejudiced. Your beliefs are delusional. Believe in any fiction you like just don’t demand that any rational person ‘respects’ your irrationalities especiallly when they are the causes of real prejudice against LGBT peopole. There is every need to stand up to the christians the pages of its history arepartly written in the blood of gay people who have been destroyed by it.
I’ve read the God Delusion and God is not Great. I’m capable of reading things that disagree with my beliefs without frothing at the mouth. Your comments were prejudiced and bigoted. I feel for you filled with so much hate and bile. I shall pray for you. I apologise if any Christians have hurt you but perhaps you can forgive and move on
Don’t bother with the prayers better spend that time considering the two books you have cited as being read by you. Any chance of it making a dent on your particular religiosity? No thought not. I have no hate or bile for you nor do I froth at the mouth, those things are stock in trade for the religionist delusionals.What I have is unshakeable determination not to have your particular ‘faith’ delusions imposed upon me or any other LGBT people. Any christians who have had their feelings hurt should consider the endless harms that particular delusion has perpetrated on innocent people, any apologies due are from them, not me.
Yawn Osric. You are rather repetitive. You must be excellent company. You clearly have no understanding of Christianity nor its basic tenets. You do yourself and your community a disservice through your poorly articulated arguments. Come back when you know more
You mean, like you?
Never been called a pansy in my life.
ANGLICAN MAINSTREAM has posted a link to this story on their website. As principle religious anti-gay bullies themselves it is hardly surprising as another thumbs up for the “victimisation of Christians in the UK” trope.
Ah religion, the fact that bleating humans still cling to its skirts is proof we’re suckers for pain and can’t see that we’re in an abusive relationship. Humans will outlast religion. We will outlast you.
I think this item sums it up well.
It certainly sums up the madness of religionists rather well.
Just because they are deeply religious does not mean they are a good person?, … Christians are always saying God loves everyone? Bah-Humbug to the Christian robots!
So the Day of Dialogue only works on the day that gay people and their allies choose to remain silent. Any other day, the bullies walk out.
Aw, bless. They were “hurt” by this man’s comments – pointing out that people cherry pick from their scripture. Like most bullies, they can dish it out but can’t take it. Pathetic.
It must be rewarding to you to repay others for all those years of misery. Swearing and insulting people have never been effective means to progress change or a advance a point.
It is sad to see that a you a victim of bullies, has aspired to nothing more than a bully. And that sir, is pathetic.
“And that sir, is pathetic.”
As pathetic as your racist attack on another thread against the French?
There is nothing as pathetic as a hypocrite, sir.
He’s not doing us many favours swearing while making a speech to high school students. It doesn’t make him cool, it’s just inappropriate.
Furthermore being so vitriolic does nothing to change the minds of those who we would seek to do so. He’s preaching to the converted and alienating those we would want to convert. Bravo!
We don’t actually want to convert anyone. That’s the religionists bag of tricks. You cannot in one statement change the brainwashing of decades it won’t work that way. The smug group of walk-out conformists to their particular brand of christian cult could not be reasoned with under any circumstances. It is impossible to alienate members of a cult they are already alienated. He made a forthright statement that is at all points of the compass true and accurate. What you like to call vitriolic any reasonable person calls plain unvarnished truth. The one thing delusionals don’t like is the truth about their particular delusions held up for all to see.
Vitriolic? Really? So C4M and their allies in the CoE and Roman cults allude to equal civil marriage heralding polygamy, incest and bestial relationships. That’s not vitriolic let alone offensive as well as disgusting? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. At least Dan Savage speaks the truth and we all know that the truth hurts. Those ignoramouses who walked out of his forum weren’t so much offended, but because they couldn’t handle hearing the truth and Dan’s reminding them of the double-standard, the cherry picking of verses that they ignore because it would make their daily lives uncomfortable to comport with everything the bible says. What he did was illustrate the hypocrisy by people who believe in that nonsense. Singling out references to homosexuality as a means to justify discrimination brilliantly illustrates their hypocrisy and bigotry. You either believe everything in the bible or you don’t believe in it at all, no exceptions.
Savage is a bully.
Don’t worry Christians. It gets better.
There’s nothing at all christian about people who claim that allowing equal marriage will herald polygamy, incest and bestiality and other forms of relationships according to C4M. If that were remotely true, why haven’t they come forward with the factual evidence? Bearing false witness seems to be de rigueur nowadays among the cherry-picking relgionists when it comes to gay people. Religion is at the heart of bullying if you delve deeper into it’s origin. Just look at it’s history, not exactly stellar. It bullied native tribes in Latin America, the African continent and beyond, subjugated entire races into submission under threat of death, supported slavery because it was in the bible and relegated women to chattel. Pure evil if you ask me.
Not this time Raydar it won’t. The jigs up your particular brand of delusional fantasy is getting the hammering it deserves. Thankfully your tribe of bullies will fall back on the tried and tested methods used over centuries to try and impose their religious world on the rest of us. The rest of us however are more than ready for you and we will defeat you. We will not have your delusions imposed upon us nor will we allow them to be written into laws to oppress us. So no you will find it won’t get better and that’s a promise we will keep.
Such anger. Maybe you should seek counseling.
Such delusions, maybe you need to be in the line first.
If you and your chums were not so delusional it might actually get it through your thick skulls that you don’t get to impose your delusions on the rest of us, and you wouldn’t need to be told so often. You say anger, I say standing up for my civil rights which you and your fellow delusionals don’t get to say what they are.
Counseling suggests we could trust in his stability of mind to seek help on his own.
Personally I’m leaning towards a court ordered commitment.
Look eveyone a delusional religionist pretending to be a rational human being, why it’s like watching a pig trying to fly. Maybe you should try praying for guidance to your god? How about thumbing through your book of magic spells and then turning the other cheek ,after all the two you keep talking out of must be getting numb by now surely?
“Don’t worry Christians. It gets better.”
Yeah, keep believing that, you blinkered fool. Region that oppresses has seen its day in Europe. Time for you to move on and get a real education.
It was a very strange camera angle for someone trying to film a talk, but a perfect camera angle if you were trying to shoot people walking out of a talk. Just saying!
ok for one who says its inappropriate to use choice words and offend cultists they do, and have been responsible for every atrocity in mans history. And need to be told to fck off and go pet the the nice lion. when did progress grind to a near standstill when cults took hold, read your history almost every notable person in history that has made a influencee has been glbt.
“responsible for every atrocity in mans history.” My fellow degenerate, mankind has never needed reason to hate, cause to kill, of justification for prejudice! Prejudice by definition lacks reason & logic.
Usually it is hate that is there first, then you pick a reason (out of your arse if need be), then you choose your targets.
If you lost gender, race, sexual orientation, … whatever in the morning, somewhere on some street on earth, people on the left side of the street would now be fanatically dedicated to wiping out the people on right side.
“every notable person in history that has made a influence has been glbt.” Do you only read every third page of history? Could you point to a source for this BS of yours? A reputable source!
And ‘glbt’ should be capitalized i.e. GBLT, and is more commonly ordered as LGBT.
“My fellow degenerate” written by a true brainwashed Catholic if ever there was one. My fellow degenerate! Prejudice by definition lacks reason and logic, and that in a nutshell is the very definition of religion. It lacks all reason and logic and demands belief, blind unreasoning belief. As a Catholic you should know that surely? The Catholic Church demands total submission to the ‘faith’. You may think you are a degenerate, I think your ‘faith’ is the degenerate here. I hope one day you cast the chains off and stand upright but maybe you would rather be on your knees to a fiction that oppresses you?
You knowledge is lacking,
“My fellow degenerates”, a phase coined by Harvey Milk in 1975.
That who I source the phrase from, and in it is offered in the same friendly spirit.
So your insulted by the phase and were attacking the person you thought coined it. Well Milk said it first, please go on, what has the the great Osric to say of Harvey Milk.
He was a better person that any of the religious delusionals you hang out with that’s for sure. You don’t dare insult his memory do you by trying to use his words to promote your particular brand of pretend rationality do you? Scratch a religionist and what do you find? When it comes down to the line what’s it going to be the Catholic Church on one side or your freedom on the other? Don’t side with the enemy of LGBT equality and expect to be thanked for it.
Not a fan of Dan Savage, but he is speaking the truth here and that is the reason those brainwashed kids walked out.
Regardless of whether or not one agrees with the sentiments, what is sad is the complete absence of nuance, sophistication and, in the end, manners.
Are you for real? That little representation of the cultists marching band don’t give a monkies toss about manners or nuance or sohistication when they are cutting LGBT people’s rights to shreads or bullying a gay teenager to death, and you think they give a toss about us? They need to be told in words they can grasp. The message is keep your delusions to yourselves and if you try to harm others because of them, then expect to be held to account, because they will be.
“Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war.”
From their own songs, no less.
Their brainwashed delusions are the cause of every F up this planet has ever seen.
Islam. Jews, Christians. The lot of them need to read their own
NONE of them understand a word of what their imagined deities say and the plastic businesses that call themselves religions.
But they do give a toss about manners, nuance and sophistication. It’s how they manage to to cut LGBT rights to shreds, bully gay teenagers to death, and get away with it. Because they never look like they are accountable. Ask yourself why so many black people will express unreserved gratitude to Martin Luther King but are divided over Malcolm X.
No they do not, and your comparing Martin Luther King and Malcolm X is in the context you use really rather odd.
They bully and attack gays because they believe they can do it without being held to account. It has little or nothing to do with manners, nuance and sophistication but everything to do with hunting in packs and attacking the LGBT vunerable. The fundamentalists are now being held to account, they are not having it all their own way anymore. They are finding more and more people standing in opposition to their determination to control in the name of religion. This isn’t a time for ‘good manners’ not when teenagers are being bullied to death by religionists, this is time for telling governments get off your arses and deal with the problem at source in the schools. Prejudiced and homophobic children are usually the product of prejudiced and homopobic parents. Let’s see some action to deal with that. I won’t be polite about insisting on our rights as LGBT citizens.
You’re missing my point. I’d rather see Dan Savage calling out anti-gay Christians on this than say nothing. But Christians manage to avoid being seen by mainstream society as the vicious bullies they are because a lot do it in a very subtle way – God is about love; we don’t hate gays we just hate the sin; we can’t possibly be nasty cos we go around smiling, giving to the poor and running luncheon clubs for the elderly blah blah blah. Dan didn’t call the Bible bs, rather that what they say the Bible says is bs. But because of the way he frased it, he’s let it look they didn’t have a choice but to walkout. My comparison r.e. Martin Luther King & Malcolm X is that King dealt with the bigots with dignity & so he got his point across, Malcolm X went down the more extreme route & allowed his opponents to take the moral high ground against him. Savage should have called those bastards out for what they are. I just wish he hadn’t done it in a way that let them play the victim card.
Paul you are right I did miss the point you made and I unreservedly apologise to you for my misunderstanding. I agree with you the bastards need to be shown for what they are and not given any chance to hide behind the phoney religious mask.
Very well said, It’s your opinion Dan Savage and I agree with it. He didn’t cause harm to anyone, he just stated his opinion about the bible. Everyone has a opinion of a book. I am a gay Buddhist, I show compassion for all beings, after all, we need love in this world, not hate! I can’t believe people would rather see two men or two woman holding guns and killing each other rather than holding hands and loving each other. Can’t we all just get along? :3
See the blog at glbtq.com about this. Claude Summers calls the whole thing a faux controversy.
The part of the bible that he is talking about – Leviticus – aren’t laws Christians are supposed to follow any longer. They were only to be followed untill the Messiah (Jesus) came with better rules. So no, Christians aren’t any longer allowed to have slaves or kill homosexuals.
Actually, you shouldn’t think most Christians have even studied the bible, because if they had, they would’ve known that the only other place in the bible that says it’s not ok to be gay, is just a big misunderstanding.
1 Timothy 1:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 supposedly says that homosexuality is a deadly sin, but what the sin that they’re talking about really is, is promiscuity. It’s simply wrong traslating.
I’m not straight, and obviously not a homophobe, but I still probably would’ve left that room, simply because that guy didn’t do his research, and therefore he is saying many things that aren’t even true.
The problem with your argument is that fundamentalist Christians still hold as true most of genesis, leviticus, and deuteronomy. Hence, I know people who home school their kids and teach them that dinosaurs and humans coexisted simply be size genealogicalis implies that it must be so.
In this year of 2012, The bible is still used as a weapon, by hate mongers, dangerous minded followers of ???
So many people have died, are dying, will die, needlessly, as hate mongers use the bible as their weapon. Shame, shame on you. Christian love??? I think not.
Some of us, like me excercise true Christian love and that means judging no one.
Yeah, but pity small minded christians are not in control any more. Its what upsets and old perverted fool like you. So who cares…..
“1 Timothy 1:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 supposedly says that homosexuality is a deadly sin, but what the sin that they’re talking about really is, is promiscuity. It’s simply wrong traslating.”
The word word in the original greek in ! Corinthians 6:9-10 is ‘porneia’ which is correctly translated as fornication.
Giventhat fornication is sexual relations outside of marriage and same sex mariage was not perimtted for Christians, any homosexual liason woud be considered ‘porneia’, therefore prohibited.,
Utter non-sequitur, KEITH. Sorry.
Keep walking, Sky Fairy lovers. Keep walking until you reach a road that has heavy flowing traffic and keep walking until you’re in the middle of that road.
Viva a la Anarcho-queers!
Well atleast the gay tories running crusaid used aids charity money to pay off a christian to keep quiet about dodgy emails in 2004 and gagged them so gay community gave them lots more money -just saying:-)
It really looks planned, they probably only went there so they could ‘walk out in protest’ at some point. Shame, because that would mean they weren’t really listening…
I really liked what he said and I do agree with it. However, I don’t believe that this has anything to do with God, but organised religion. Unfortunately, many generalise these two, whereas they often do not go together well.
For me, the Bible is a literary accomplishment and a cultural testament. As such, it’s not fully applicable to our times, society or culture. That doesn’t mean I don’t have to believe in anything of its message. There are timeless elements. ‘Picking’ is therefore necessary for believing, I think… But: definitely a huge ‘no’ to ‘cherry-picking’ with the intent of hurting someone!
Anyway, it’s really spineless just to walk away and not listen to the justified criticism he voices. Admittedly the wording could be nicer, but it’s not blasphemous or anything…
It was clear from his third sentence what the tone of his speech would be so your assumption that the walk out was planned is erroneous. I find it strange that you agree with what he said because his foul mouthed tirade was the opposite of your own sensible conclusion that, ‘the Bible is a literary accomplishment and a cultural testament’ with ‘timeless elements’.
Savage makes no effort to understand Biblical context but cherry picks in order to bolster his lack of reasoned argument. Frankly, I would have walked out rather than
listen to his outpouring of hated which apparently is shared by some readers. It was Savage who was spineless for substituting hatred for reason.
Maybe people with aids cld pray for the £200,000-london aids charity ukc lost on events:-) just saying all hushed up for years
And then pray the £90,000-00 wasted on closing dwn the charity one day reaches people livin with aids and pray 4 the £50,000 wasted on the ukc ‘rescue package’ which failed -all hushed up by the aids charity workers in london and gay press-just saying:-)
Pray the gay run london aids charity sector ends the cover ups and is honest with people living with aids just saying.
Pray the management of london aids charity ukc had fun spending the £15,000 payrises after losing £200k of people living wiv aids money all hushed up -just saying;-)
With the luvvies running the london aids charity sectos claiming to be transparent and honest we should all pray one day it is! – just saying:-)
Just one question. . Who’s Dan Savage??
Well, I will say this if this discussion is truly free of hate and truly free for speech. Dan savage is a hypocrite himself. He cherry-picks as he claims Christians do. He describes his premeditated and planned attack on what GOD has said regarding homosexuality as pushing back, now that is not just hypocrisy its straight out deception as the serpent deceived Eve in questioning what GOD had said. I do not know how the term “bulling” became associated with Christianity as GOD’s word does not bully but it is quick and sharper than any two edged sword and pierces and divides the soul and the spirit of man and it discerns the intentions of the heart. So when people hear that because they chose to worship created things rather than the creator their minds were darkened and were inflamed with the unnatural lust for one another they quickly try challenge what GOD has said just like Dan and the serpent.
That should answer your question….
The two points that were cherry picked by Dan regarding women stoned on their wedding day and shellfish is totally from a different dispensation. That dispensation ended at the Cross. That is why Jesus said I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law. Jesus did this at every point perfectly and by this he was able to take the law of Moses to the grave and bury it so he could raise up a new law when Jesus resurrected, which is the law of faith. At the cross all those extreme acts of justice ended and a new relationship began. Before the relationship between man and GOD was exact and perfect justice. This is where you get the issue of woman being stoned for screwing around before they married and this went for men too by the way. The new relationship now is no longer perfect justice but based on mercy and grace. For the law was given by Moses but Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ..Amen
Lets take a look at the one point that was cherry picked by Dan regarding women stoned on their wedding day. This is totally from a different dispensation. That dispensation ended at the Cross. That is why Jesus said I came not to destroy the law but to fulfill the law. Jesus did this at every point perfectly and by this he was able to take the law of Moses to the grave and bury to give us a new law of faith. Before the relationship between man and GOD which was exact and perfect justice. This is where you get the issue of woman being stoned for screwing around before they married. this new relationship is now based on mercy and grace. For the law was given by Moses but Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Now that this point has been explained and shown to be taken clearly out of context to support whatever claims Dan has attempted to make regarding GOD’s word. In the video there were a lot of young courageous young people with conviction that withstood this assault and had the strength to get up and leave regardless whether planned or not it still took moral courage to do it. On the other hand there were more young people who not only stayed but applauded Dan for the errors that he was presenting to support his HAgenda. My question is who are truly the ones who are not thinking for themselves? Because Dan is certainly not thinking for me nor my children.
Bullying is difficult to define, because in today’s society it extends much further beyond someone taking your child’s lunch money or pushing him or her around on the playground, and the effects of this type of behavior go much deeper than a black eye. Teasing, taunting, ethnic slurs and sexual harassment are all forms of bullying. Bullying behavior is generally repetitive hostility and aggression directed toward a victim who is physically or mentally weaker than the bully. Thus, being a parent I’ve learned to be vigilant and more particular on the safety of my teens especially when it comes with bullying cases. Then I found this site that provides a protection for children from a safety mobile protection that can access family, friends and 911 in times of emergency. I just downloaded their application on their iPhone. Here’s where you can find it: http://safetrec.com/
Bullying is a social phenomenon that transcends gender, age, and culture. While there are wide ranges in the definition of the term, bullying is essentially characterized by one or several individuals aggressing on a vulnerable peer, primarily to assert control or power. Thus, being a parent I’ve learned to be vigilant and more particular on the safety of my teens especially when it comes with bullying cases. Then I found this site that provides a protection for children from a safety mobile protection that can access family, friends and 911 in times of emergency. I just downloaded their application on their iPhone. Here’s where you can find it: http://safetrec.com/
It’s a shame that christian bigots can rave on as much as they like, and spew hatred and discrimination, and expect people to listen, but the minute someone comes back with comments that go against what they believe, they get all huffy. What is the saying? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The just didn’t want to hear the truth because it might make them wake up from the brainwashing they seem to get when they belong to these churches.