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Row over legality of Coalition for Marriage presentations in Catholic state schools

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  1. Another stupid and desperate move by the catholic church…. which will just re-enforce the belief in moderate people that they are extremists. The more publicity this act gets, the better for all of society to see what a shower of twisted cretins they are.

    Not the first time the church “used” children for their own advantage and pleasures, is it?

    No doubt we’ll have that paedophile apologist Ken in with some stupid statistic or “legal interpretation” to give us all a good laugh.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 3:18pm

      Will, I strongly urge you not to engage with that idiot. It only enables him and his irrational rants. I know it’s hard not to fire back at him, but he’s a very perverted individual who reinvents, rewrites facts and presents them as factual evidence. It’s the modus operandi of the right wing so called ‘christian’ extremists in America who’ve trained their UK counterparts in the same propaganda, perpetrating lies and misinformation. Honesty is not really a virtue they espouse so they’re really not christians in the truest sense of the word. I’ve notified Pink News about him who will be watching him closely.

      1. You ruin all my fun :(

        Can I still play with Keith the dog?

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 3:33pm

          Sorry if I’m ruining your fun, but these people really contribute NOTHING to any discussion. Their goal is to wear us down with their spurious nonsense that they can’t even produce any evidence for. They’re desperate people, hence the rants.

          1. I do so agree with you Robert, even though I am not above stooping to engage with them on occasion. They certainly seem to have an inordinate amount of time to stir (a new definition of stir-crazy, perhaps).

          2. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 7:26pm

            Rehan, I know, it can be tempting to take a swipe at them but that’s what they want, they enjoy it. For some, they even get a perverse sense of sexual satisfaction out of it believe it or not, that’s how sick they are. You can bet that all of them have a lot of dark secrets and skeletons in their equally dark, oppressive closets. The way they speak is irrational, not normal. Many of them are paranoid schizophrenics, delusional and in some cases sociopathic. The right wing religious base is infested with them. They have no sense of shame or remorse either and they’re unable to distinguish the truth from a lie.

        2. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 3:35pm

          As for Keith, well, again you’re only enabling him. When they can’t find an audience they dry up. Coming to a gay site is proof they are desperate because nobody else will give them the time of day. Sick people, very sick.

          1. It disturbs me that there is a creep with my name trolling this site spewing hate. Maybe he could change his name to bigot, troll or something else that fits.

          2. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 7:28pm

            Don’t worry, Keith. I report all of them to Pink News. Just ignore them as best you can, they’ll soon get tired of the lack of attention they crave so much. Refrain from responding to them if you can. Without an audience, they go away eventually when they realise they’re not getting anywhere.

  2. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 3:12pm

    “The Catholic Church’s view on the importance of marriage is a religious view, not a political one.”

    Then why introduce the C4M petition in the first place if it’s not about influencing a political outcome? Such hypocrisy is jaw-dropping.

    1. The two are not mutually exclusive. “Religious” simply means “cultural”, and people’s cultural opinions certainly have an influence on politics. There is no dividing line between “religious” views and other cultural views. They’re all the same sort of thing. “It’s my religious belief” is NOT a reason to let it go. You chose that belief, you support it, now you can sure as hell attempt to defend it with rational arguments that the rest of us might accept.

      1. “You chose that belief, you support it, now you can sure as hell attempt to defend it with rational arguments that the rest of us might accept.”

        Except religion does not produce a rational argument. Its produces the opposite.

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 3:53pm

          Irrational indeed as we’ve see with Karl McCartney et al.

      2. @VP, religion simply means irrational, delusional, oppression, dictatorial…there is more…need I go on on…so based on the afore mentioned, religion should never be allowed to enter or influence politics!

  3. Evil always makes a fatal mistake because it is so completely focussed on nastiness. Let’s hope this is that mistake.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 7:21pm

      What goes around, comes around. They’ll get their just desserts eventually. I strongly believe in karma.

  4. Perhaps the Catholic Education Service could tell us how they encouraged their schools to promote this RC teaching whilst ensuring balanced commentary on opinion in this matter?

    If they did not surely they breached all the following aspects of Equality and Education law that they are required to comply with:
    * Failure to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it.
    * Failure to advance equality of opportunity between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it
    * Failure to have due regard to the need to foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it
    * Failure to tackle prejudice and promote understanding
    * Failure to forbid the promotion of partisan political views in the teaching of any subject in the school
    *

    1. It is simply wrong of the church to use schools in that way. It isanother sad addition to the long list of ways they have abused the education system to their own benefit . Agree with Marcus, its just indefensible…there should be no slap on the wrist here, they need to be slapped down for good!

  5. I wish they’d just put a lid on it. They’re so aggressively hateful, how can they possibly think a God would want this? This is disgusting and C4M should have given up months ago.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 3:57pm

      As I said on another post, C4M only represents 0.007% of a population of 60 million people. Polls mean absolutely nothing. The fact that C4EM only has under 50,000 doesn’t mean anything either. We heard all of this lunacy during the CP consultation, the very same people making spurious claims about people having relationships with their siblings, family pets. Look what happened, it passed. Let C4M spend its money, as they saying goes, ” a fool and his money are soon parted”. They can’t buy elections, this isn’t America.

  6. This is a shocking breach of the school’s duty of care. It categorically shouldn’t be involved in such a live political issue, particularly in a way that demeans gay pupils. I’m sure students and parents will be upset that this school is creating deeply unpleasant environment for gay young people. Its unlawful as political issues are not acceptable in a school context. It is disingenuous to pretend this is not a political issue.

  7. Marriage as they think it is currently defined as is not going to be made illegal if same-sex couples can marry. If they want to support their ideals, then they should actually focus on that, instead of trying to make something that they just personally dislike, for political reasons (whether or not those political reasons are religiously motivated), illegal for everyone else.

  8. johnny.33308 26 Apr 2012, 3:58pm

    The CES says that this campaign is about “a positive affirmation of marriage” and is not discriminatory towards LGBT people…..that is yet another BLATANT LIE to go along with its many other blatant lies about LBGT people, and about the CES itself….it is time the CES was eliminated….it has proven itself unfit to participate in any civil discourse, and has therefore forfeited its position to impact any further input into any schools, Catholic or otherwise….get rid of the Catholic Education Service NOW! They will never become good, but will always corrupt the youth of the UK. Eliminate them before more childrens’ lives are destroyed by their evil bigotry!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 7:19pm

      Coercing pupils to sign the C4M petition is discriminatory towards LGBT people last time I checked. It’s promoting hate and intolerance the very things it’s supposed to be against. Hypocrites!

  9. “..The Catholic Church’s view on the importance of marriage is a religious view, not a political one.”

    Oh that’s a shame. Except equal civil marriage is a political and not a religious issue. Ignorance is no excuse.

  10. Archbishop of Taunton 26 Apr 2012, 4:26pm

    Of course they can teach the importance of marriage. But that is entirely a different point to whether it should be extended to gay couples, who also consider it just as important.

  11. Contact Ofsted:

    enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk

    Ask them to suspend the headmistress without pay and stop all state funding to this school, pending the outcome of a police and Ofsted investigation into the school';s behaviour.

    The headmistress sounds like she may be guilty of child abuse.

    In which case she is not a suitable person to be dealing with children.

    1. OfSted can not suspend a headteacher themselves.

      Its worth letting them know so they could inspect a school on equality issues.

  12. The anti gay Catholic church is teaching children to be anti socal when it promotes the discrimination of LGBT people. Teaching children to hate and discriminate is what brings on social unrest and conflicts. Why are the “religious leaders” working to make more trouble in the world today?

    1. They have been doing it for centuries. Why stop now? As long as they are allowed to push their agendas they will continue to do so.

      1. johnny.33308 26 Apr 2012, 9:45pm

        True! They will never ever be fit to teach children about anything, so religious schools must be eliminated for the benefit of the children. They must not be allowed to create more discrimination and bigotry. The CES needs to be destroyed once and for all.

  13. I don’t think the petition should have been taken in to Catholics like this. I can’t imagine even big Jessie O’Brien approving this in Scotland.

  14. Just seen this on the bbc website –

    Education Minister Leighton Andrews orders an investigation after a Catholic lobby group urged schools to back a campaign against same-sex marriage

  15. Excellent to see the Welsh government are concerned about the actions of the RC church in this matter

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-17861000

    A Welsh government spokesperson has said: “The education minister has seen the press stories and has asked officials to investigate. All schools must ensure issues are taught in a way that does not subject pupils to discrimination.”

    Its time Michael Gove also took such action.

    1. Good article, Neil, thanks for posting. At least the wheels are now in motion. Thank you, Wales!

    2. It’s time Michael Gove was replaced, not because of this but because he’s incapable, incompetent bafoon

  16. Janet Lameck 26 Apr 2012, 6:57pm

    How about finally separating Church and State. Cut off ALL State subsidies to religious schools. With the Catholic Church on an advanced downward spiral it wouldn’t be long before they were closing the doors on their schools. A School is for learning, not being taught religious dogma and propaganda!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Apr 2012, 7:17pm

      I second that. I’d love to see a national movement for that. Now that would really get their knickers in a twist wouldn’t it? I would gloat as it unravelled. Sweet revenge! If they were that smart, they’d desist from getting embroiled in the marriage equality debate. What they’re doing is exposing their bigotry and intolerance and alienating people that can only help the cause for full equality. It’s like shooting themselves in the foot. They keep it up much longer, they’ll get what they didn’t wish for. Bring it on.

  17. Mumbo Jumbo 26 Apr 2012, 7:10pm

    “It is central to Catholic teaching that all individuals should be treated with respect and dignity.”

    Except if you’re gay, or a child we want to rape.

  18. Jason Feather 26 Apr 2012, 7:15pm

    Why do we even have faith schools? Surely the purpose of a school is to teach facts not fairy stories!

    1. Absolutely agree.

      When you are a child, the best gift you will ever be given is education. It changes your life and sets a path of potential for who you may become. To spend a single moment of that on hocus pocus is an affront and a complete and utter waste of that precious time.

  19. Problem is, the damage has already been done. The signatures will have already been absorbed into the larger petition. C4M knew the possible outcomes and legal challenges to this action in advance, and have no doubt pre-arranged a legal team to counter complaints.

    Platitudes and excuses for “mistakenly” targeting under-16 year-olds are now somewhat disingenuous and an insult to anyone’s intelligence.

    Given we know homophobic bullying is oppressively rife in secondary schools, that’s an almost guaranteed 339,500 signatures in the bag – an outcome C4M had clearly anticipated.

    Now further transparency of this group’s activities, especially the cowardly targeting of children, will irrefutably condemn it in the eyes of public and politicians alike. Anything else is an affront to not only equality laws, but to civil liberties, period.

    1. In America, they have the Southern Poverty Law Center that has an official list of religion based groups that it lists as hate groups which is driving them absolutely bonkers and they can’t do a thing about it. We need a similar organisation here. Imagine the uproar C4M being labelled as such which in my mind it clearly is. They can deny it all the want, liars always do when confronted with the truth and the facts none of which they can produce. They should be challenged to prove their wild spurious assertions regarding polygamy, incest and bestiality as alternate unions that could emerge if equal marriage is legalised. Who will do it though? They’ve ignored my email for such a request. I wonder why?

  20. This is an outrageous attack on moral and religious freedom. The petition to defend marriage is an important one and has been signed by more people than any other petition in the history on line petitions in the UK. The attack on marriage is not about “equality”. It is about an arrogant minority trying to impose their re-definition of everything on the sane and normal majority. Gay tyranny has gone too far. Pink News is a hate group and its tactics are despicable. The queer fanatics who rant and rave on it are a very unsavoury bunch.

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