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Comment: The gay community, the police and the question of trust

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  1. Vincent from Belfast 18 Apr 2012, 3:41pm

    I see the PSNI contributed to this piece…. due to their absolute failure to deal with 12 reported cases of homophobically motivated HC directed at my family we are taking them to court (supported by the Equality Commission) for failure to provide a service as per the GFS regs, and we are alledging instituitional homophobia. They have also done away with the only LGBT support officer in the entire service and amalgamated roles re hate crime reporting to people with no training and little interest.

    1. Vincent

      The ACC who is quoted is also the national lead for hate crime across ACPO.

      The number of LGBT liaison officers seems to be reducing in a great many police services. There is also a lack of consistency in how individual forces approach hate crime. Some such as Herts give their police officers specialist training, others it is treated as any other crime. Derbyshire state all hate crimes are investigated “to a very high standard”.

      Its clear many police leaders believe they are doing a good job in how they tackle hate crimes, and its probably true that in some individual services, some local areas and from some individual officers this is genuinely true. What is also true is that there is a lack of trust continuing within the LGBT communities and that many LGBT people (either historically or recently) have had very poor experiences. Whilst many have made efforts to improve trust, it does not seem to seep through to both the experiences that many have when they need police

      1. or to some of the front line officers as to what a HC is and how they should be tackled.

        There is a mismatch between the actual service being received by many and that which the police service management believe they are delivering.

        I am not sure how they resolve that, but its clear there is disappointment and anger from many LGBT people which leads to bitterness and a lack of trust.

        Thats not to say there are not good experiences – there are, but they are inconsistent.

  2. I was a victim of a physical homophobic assault at a Catholic presbytery about 10 years ago. I reported it Islington police on Tolpuddle Street who were very homophobic. A Galop officer was based there and he left a message on my phone but not his number so I couldn’t return his call.

    When the case reached court the officer who had interviewed me never spoke to me but instead laughed and joked with the defendant’s solicitor whose opening line to me was “Are you a practising homosexual?” I looked to the magistrate for help who told me I had to answer the question. The two day case was found in my attacker’s favour who gave me a broad grin as he left the court.

    I will never trust the police or courts again.

    1. Sorry to hear of your experience, that must have been an awful ordeal!

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 18 Apr 2012, 6:34pm

      It always amazes me that in this day and age, “practising homosexual” is still used? Do any of the police ever ask a heterosexual if he or she is practising? What do they think this is, a hobby? Proves how badly educated and ignorant some of them are. I for one would NEVER trust a policeman and would probably not report a crime if I were the subject of verbal or physical abuse. There are no guarantees I would be treated with dignity and respect or that my case would be taken seriously or even prosecuted. I’m sorry but I just can’t bring myself to trust any of them.

      1. It is outrageous language to use.

        To make it worse, in diversity training and awareness in the police – they are told that is not an acceptable phrase.

      2. I’m an out gay police officer as is my husband, yes in the past the police were homophobic I know that only too well having been closeted for many years. However, for the past eight years I have been totally out and my partner and I entered a civil partnership three weeks ago and you would not believe how positive my colleagues have been. Don’t label all police officers as homophobic, some of us are gay ourselves and many straight officers, in fact I would suggest the majority are extremely supportive of us

        1. Tim

          I am a gay man and was a police officer for 7 years.

          I have good and bad experiences in the police regarding my orientation. I did not come out for the first few years (wanting to be known better for my professionalism and ability than my orientation).

          There are some good gay officers and some straight officers who are very supportive and professional in dealing with LGBT issues.

          Equally there are some officers who are not professional – and there is a mindset that the police are struggling to overcome that they will not serve LGBT people well.

          Some officers try hard but make efforts.

          Resources are an issue. Hate crimes need special attention per ACPO guidance and are resource intensive. When the govt cut resources – its difficult to see how this will be sustained.

          I do recognise that its hard on those officers who work well and who are supportive, but the research shows that LGBT people either genuinely do not or perceive they do not get the best service from police

          1. I wouldn’t spit on a police officer if he was on fire. They are nothing but scum. I hope and pray that I am never targeted by them. My ex is a campaigner who regularly attends protests, she now works for Stonewall, and some of the stories she has; riot officers inciting violence with sexist, homophobic remarks, beating people who ask for badge numbers, the list goes on. Police are nothing but thugs is uniform.

  3. Some police who are anti-gay Christians see themselves as members of the “Army of God” who think that part of their job as a public servant for all people who pay taxes which pays the police their salary is to do what anti-gay Christians do, bash and bully LGBT people. I know they have bashed and bullied me, I have even filed complaints and then they got their buddies on the police force to bash and bully me even more. Anti-gay Christian police have become more like vigilantes working with other anti-gay Christian than all the peoples public servants. They have become paid gang members who are no better than common criminals they fight. The funny thing is they need those other criminal gangs to keep their jobs so they encourage crime so people think they need them. Today the police make more crime than they solve. After all as a paid police officer, crime does pay.

    1. A friend of mine doesn’t dare even walk past a police officer, his father is a CID officer, who has tried to kill him in the past, and has tracked him down 3 times so far. The last time the bastard threw a microwave at his head, inside a homeless hostel with witnesses, and nothing was done, no charges nothing.

  4. In the three times in my life I’ve complained to the police about homophobic incidents, on one occasion a really violent assault, I have found the police in Staffordshire to be really supportive.

  5. Craig Denney 18 Apr 2012, 6:04pm

    I was one of those community reps who thought he could change the Police and make them more gay friendly, but I was wrong. Unless there is real fundermental change from the Police, nothing will happen.

    Do you know what happens when a community rep tries to change police procedures, the Police ignores them and when the rep tries to force the point the Police arrests the rep on made-up false charges or threatens the rep with arrest.

    I’m not joking!

    1. Craig Denney 18 Apr 2012, 6:05pm

      We have seen the mess the MET is in with racism and I propose that ‘Every officer’ undertakes an interview with independent diversity consultants to weed out racism & homophobia and if racism/homophobia is suspected which includes colluding between officers to fix answers to the interview, then those officers will be put through very intensive diversity training and re-tested after 12 months and if they fail? Then they will be asked to retire from the Police.

    2. Until there is real fundamental change Craig then whilst a few individuals, and some localities may have good service – the consistent good service will not occur. There will be too many LGBT people who receive shoddy service and (at times) discriminatory service.
      As for the reaction of the police that you give – that does not surprise me, I saw a couple of my ex colleagues experience a negative impact on their careers when they challenged certain practices.

      1. Craig Denney 18 Apr 2012, 7:38pm

        It’s like the case of Sultan Alam who has received £841,430 in damages for being “stitched up” by fellow officers and none of those officers have been convicted for stitching him up :

        Racism & Homophobia is institutional.

        1. Cleveland Police’s own temporary chief constable has instituted an independent investigation into racism in the force, its believed it has provisionally found that there is institutional racism in the force:

          1. Oops. Same report!

            The TCC is refusing to comment on the report at the moment.

  6. I never trust the police. My experience, when it comes to sideing with you or protect one of their own, you will lose.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 18 Apr 2012, 6:35pm

      Sadly, that seems to be the case. Until homophobia within the ranks is taken seriously and addressed, LGBT trust will diminish even more.

    2. There are reasons to think that you can trust some police.

      I tried to give a good service to all the people I served and I know there are many many good police officers out there.

      The big problems are:
      a) the lack of consistency
      b) those who have failed to understand that racism/homophobia etc will not be tolerated despite some good training and awareness initiatives
      c) the closing of ranks if something goes wrong

      1. It doesn’t matter how much training those morons have, they will always protect their own, unless they happen to find an officer who isn’t bent, and then they frame them with false charges. They are a militant gang, and nothing more.

  7. Nick Weeks 18 Apr 2012, 7:21pm

    The Met. is very variable – Ealing always struck me as very good, with a lot of publicity about reporting homophobic crime. Haringey is USELESS: the post of LGBT liaison has been vacant for TWO YEARS, and the “community safety” team supposed to be covering it react with alarm at the thought they might have a fag on the end of the phone!

  8. I honestly wouldn’t trust the police

    If you’re not heterosexual and you’re not gender conforming (hair, dress, etc) it’s not exactly wise to trust them

    1. Angry much?

    2. I agree.

  9. Peter & Michael 19 Apr 2012, 7:04am

    No figures for iCheshire Police?

    1. I only included some of the police services (due to word limit) I shall dig out the figures for Cheshire for you guys and put them on here shortly.

    2. In relation to Cheshire, I received the following information from FOI:

      The force has over 70 LGBT Liaison Officers

      The role of the LGBT Liaison officers is:
      To liaise with the lesbian, gay, bi-sexual and trans communities, in order to encourage co-operation with the police, increase community confidence and confidence in the police.

      To encourage the reporting of homophobic and transphobic incidents to the police.

      To give information, advice and support to victims and witnesses of crimes or incidents.

      To give support and advice to officers dealing with homophobic and transphobic incidents.

      Total hate crime 2009/10 244 Homophobic 40
      Total hate crime 2010/11 326 Homophobic 61

      1. Craig Denney 19 Apr 2012, 10:51am

        Ahh, that’s where they fall down: “To give support and advice to officers dealing with homophobic and transphobic incidents”

        When they have 70 LGBT Liaison Officers why are untrained officers dealing with the crimes or incidents?

  10. Peter & Michael 19 Apr 2012, 7:05am

    No figures for Cheshire Police.

    1. Posted above for you now.

  11. Unfortunately police have been very good at infiltrating LGBT groups & organisations & peddling the police PR lie that police are suddenly after decades of blatant homophobia…all gay friendly. CRAP!

    Where I live this has resulted in many of those gay & lesbian people who have experienced or witnessed police homophobia becoming excluded & ostracised, even targeted by some in the gay population for daring to express their experience of police homophobia.

    Police are fundemently the homophobic hate crime problem due to continued protection of homophobic values & practises by senior officers & the IPCC is a waste of space.

    Trust the police as a gay man?

    I’d rather trust a rabid dog!

    1. I think that is unfair. In some cases that is true, not in all.

  12. GingerlyColors 19 Apr 2012, 10:07am

    Hate crime can only be recorded if people come forward to report it. This depends mainly on the trust between the communities affected, the police and the justice system. A rise in hate crime can be attributed to better reporting of it. HC is not just your stereotypical white, straight, British people going out beating up blacks and gays but between different minority groups.

  13. we are a LGBT charity based in reading that can offer 3rd Party reporting in the thames valley area.we are based at 21 south street (first floor of arts centre) or contact us on 0118 3755260 or at

    1. I think third party reporting is a very important service. Its important that we challenge the police to tackle hate crime, and allow people to report with some assurances – third party reporting helps deal with that for some people.

  14. I have to say my experiences have been altogether different.

    I reported a homophobic incident a few years ago and the police were fantastic – the resource and the effort they put into taking statements, investigating, accompanying me at court were more than I could ever have expected.

    Unbeknown to me they changed their patrols to pass my home every day. When ever I attended the police station an officer was waiting at the station gates to allow my car access to the police car park. I was offered an escort to and from court. I was provided with a private witness room to keep me away from the defendants and any other undesirables at court.

    Can’t fault them. I sent a letter of thanks to the Inspector at the local police station and the sergeant that looked after the case phoned me to thank me because the letter would go in the personnel files of his team and would assist them if they applied for promotion.

    I’m sorry not everyone is getting the same level of service

    1. Jose

      Its great to hear of the level of service that you received – I know you are not the only person to receive a good service. There are many people who have reported receiving support, help and a very professional service from police.

      Unfortunately, whether its widespread or not (and as some of this is due to perceptions – which is addressed in the article) many people do not receive a good service, and there is a strong perception that the police are reluctant to engage with homophobic issues, and some officers are homophobic themselves.

  15. I honestly cannot believe that anyone who is gay would voluntarily go anywhere near a policeman – it’s such a fantastical notion to me that it just makes me laugh out loud. Sometimes, of course, one has to get involved with the bigots in uniform, but, in my opinion, the fact that we note and applaud the very rare case of good treatment (such as the example given by Jose), and that we find such good treatment to be remarkable and worthy of remark, shows exactly what sort of an organisation we LGBT people are up against. That is to say, in my opinion, that it is an organisation with members who, on the whole, despise and dislike LGBT people and who go out of their way to humiliate and denigrate us and generally make our lives’ a misery wherever and whenever possible.

    Trust a policeman? I’d rather go swimming with crocodiles!

    1. Clearly you have no idea about the ‘organisation’ you seem to hate so much. I’m both gay and a policeman and in 10 years of policing I’ve been witness to only one instance of prejudice by a police officer (who later got sacked). On the other hand every time I feel brave enough to read the Comments section of Pink News I have to suffer the hate and vitriol of all those who seem to despise me simply because I chose to do a job that sometimes invloves enforcing the law. Police officers are HUMANS – we have feelings too. Sometimes we make mistakes – but we’re not the Borg – a mistake by one is not a mistake by the collective.

      I’m sick of the hate and the prejudice, just leave us alone to get on with our jobs. If you want to go swimming with crocodiles John MJ then go ahead but if you do stumble and fall into a crocodile infested pit then I’ll probably jump in to try and help you – as would most of my colleagues.

      1. @metoo

        I appreciate there are some good police officers out there.

        I appreciate those who do the good work often do so without publicity, do not seek praise and feel undermined by publicity which paints the police in a negative homophobic light.

        However, the facts are that as an organisation the police are trying to change, but some officers are resisting the change, some seek to undermine it – and some actually serve the public without fear or favour – whether gay,straight or whatever!

        Also, it is a fact that research shows LGBT people do not trust the police (by and large)

        I wrote this article and my intention was to highlight that its difficult to rebuild the trust that policing has lost and provoke debate.

  16. it’s hardly fair to judge the Police on a situation that occurred 10 years ago! I’d be interested to know how many correspondents are speaking from experience, and how many are just seizing an opportunity to attack the Police – I live in Brighton, where admittedly we have an unusually high LGBT population, but the Police here have 2 dedicated Officers who are absolutely fantastic. The general Police are generally great too.
    If you are going to slate someone, at leat make it relevant, or you are as guilty as the people you are criticising!

  17. I live in Brighton and I have to say that though I had a somewhat ambivalent attitude towards the force previously, the LGBT liaison team down here have really challenged some of my preconceptions. They have a real, positive presence in the community and I have a lot of respect for them. Coincidentally, one of them recently posted a video explaining her role, and her own experience of hate crime. They’re a real credit to the force and to our city, and I’d hope for other places to have the same.

  18. I am a Bisexual man, so ‘gay’ insults are doubly insulting:
    1) Homophobic
    2) Factually incorrect.

    I am also a Journalist, so get to see both sides of the coin. 2 years ago my partner and I took a ‘zero tolerance’ policy on Hate Crime as an experiment. We reported EVERY incident to the police, even if just for statistical purposes, and found South Yorks to be very receptive. An officer from the Violent and Hate Crimes Unit would come and see us at home to take statements. They were always compassionate, and spoke to us candidly about what they would feasibly be able to do and if it was in the ‘Public Interest’ to spend resources on tracking down the individual(s) concerned.

    Of the cases where the CPS found valid cause, we are 3 for 3 on convictions and at every stage we had a dedicated NAMED liaison officer dealing with us whom we could call on their mobile at any time and kept us up to date.

    Things have changed. Enough? I don’t know.

    1. Word limit on posts didn’t allow me to clarify ‘Both sides of the coin’:

      I sit in the Public Gallery to watch cases go through with which I am not involved and to read the news ‘tickers’ reporting on things happening in Court.

      I also make searches of the Court Records for offences under The Public Order Offences Act (1986):
      Section 5 (incl: persistently shouting abuse or obscenities at passers-by;)
      Section 4 (incidents which do not justify a charge of assault where an individual is picked on by a gang) and
      Section 4a (The evidence of intention may be inferred from the targeting of a vulnerable victim)

      Again, these references and quotes are chosen with wordcount in mind, but show my background to my post.

  19. Well done, Stu, on your article.
    In term of LGBT Liaison Officers and Diversity Units, clearly the Government’s significant cuts to Police funding have had an impact. It also says quite a lot about the priority that some Chief Officers place on diversity and service delivery when they make cuts to these departments. With 43 separate police forces operating in England, Wales and NI, clearly there will be a degree of inconsistency. That said, where there is ‘best practice’, forces should be adopting this and taking cognisance of areas of criticism. The UK police, police by consent. That means ‘your’ consent. If the police have not met your expectations, then you must make them aware and seek a satisfactory outcome. Racism and Homophobia within the police, whilst still exist, is being challenged by the likes of the Gay and Black Police Associations. They have managed to change the police culture and we should support their efforts in doing so.

    1. If you try and stand up to the police they will just arrest you and prosecute you on jumped up charges with fabricated evidence, or simply beat the crap out of you, depending on the situation.

  20. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 9:58am

    Dear XXXXX
    You write in your e-mail asking
    if any Panel Members have any concerns if my colleagues were to write to the Evening Standard thanking the Panel for their support and the MET for exercising their discretion twice in not arresting a disabled resident, once for four months after I offered my resignation after a Aids Charity sent me medical data belonging to another Panel Member and again when a Aids Charity e-mailed me their client data base.
    There are two issues regarding this statement. Firstly the fact that you had a database on your hard drive was not brought to the attention of the Group, although some of the individual members may have been aware of this fact.
    . As you appreciate this was outside the remit of the group, and the decision as to your arrest was one that was reached internally within the Police and one that the xxxx LGBT Advisory group had no impact on.
    Also in your e-mail you state

    It should be noted I did e-mail the Panel asking if a Aids Charity began Injuctive Proceedings at the HIGH COURT without hesitation if it would affect my sitting on the Panel and I was e-mailed back that it would not. It should be further noted approx 4 weeks later I received a letter claiming I was “the lifeblood of all we do.We could not go on without you” which left me bewildered and distressed.

    If you had of had injunctive proceedings taken against you this again would not have been a matter for the group as it would have been a private matter between you and the other party involved. This would not have affected your membership of the group.

    I trust that this meets with your approval and any outstanding issues can now be resolved.

    1. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 10:02am

      Its Good to see The Metropolitan Police have been excercising their Discretion in not arresting a Police Panel Member after the London AIDS Charity Sector sent them a) The Multiple Medical Data of a Police Panel Member they were sitting opposite and b) A entire AIDS Charitys (UKC) Client Data base due to a “regrettable Error” Chairman UKC — Well done to The Metropolitan Police in the way they supported the Police Panel Member and when they offered to resign “seriously distressed” the didnt accept their resignation – Congratulations all round in supporting the Victim of Data Protection Breaches all Covered up by The London AIDS Charity Sector

  21. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 10:03am


    Sent: 18 January 2008 16:13:33
    To: —–
    The phonecall with the person from the ICO was relatively short. I would point out that I have only told them what I know to be true or what you have communicated to me in relation directly to the data protection issue..
    I explained that you had told me the following and I had provided advice where necessary
    1. You had been passed medical data of a member of the LGBT advisory group…..
    2. I explained that you had recieved data from a charity that you had previously done voluntary work with and who had also employed you. I had not seen the content. As soon as I became aware of your possision of it, I explained to you that possession of the data was illegal and data should not be retained unnecessarily. This was in breach of the Data Protection Act. I suggested that as you had come into “innocent possession” of it, that you would not be arrested and I had advised you to contact the charity and have the data removed. You later informaed me the hard drive had been cleaned but you were concerned the data may still remain. I advised you to contact the ICO as I felt that matter was not a Police matter.
    I cannot speculate further than this and so accordingly I have just try to keep to the facts of what I know. I.E what you have told me and what I have told you.
    I trust this assists

  22. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 10:05am

    Congratulations to The Trustees of Crusaid for theatening a Police Panel Member with a HIGH COURT INJUNCTION and then apologising for writing to them for Money ALL HUSHED UP
    Subject: RE: Crusaid – Letter from Crusaid March 2007 sent to me in error
    Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:56:34 +0100
    I have contacted Crusaid. They do not know why your name is still on the circulation list for Walk for Life.It should have been removed . I have requested the same forthwith. I would imagine the list is separate to the main contact list. Apologies this was not done before. However as you know this is a circular – altho’ you should not receive it.

    I note you will be walking which is marvellous. It shows that the email re the walk this year cannot have caused the offence etc as you say. No money is wasted on an email mail out. I may see you on the walk as I intend to continue to raise money for those poverty stricken by this dreadful illness. My passion in that regard has not changed .
    I will not be responding any further. Your continued reference to the injunction is with respect irrelevant and relates to totally separate matters long closed.

    I wish you well. Kind regards.
    for Hamlins LLP

    Tel: 020 7355 6102
    Fax: 020 7518 9102

    Subject: Information Commission Email
    Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 17:12:10 +0000
    From: michael.o’
    Dear Mr xxxxxxxxx
    Thank you for forwarding this email from the Information Commissioner’s Office and the subsequent correspondence between yourselves and the Metropolitan Police.

    It appears from this email that the ICO is not directly requesting any information from the Charity Commission. I am, however, willing to clarify our involvement. For the Information Commissioner’s Office We received a complaint from Mrxxxxx in February 2007 about two registered charities. The main focus of the complaint was that confidential data had been sent to him and his name had been published in an online article. As these were disputes between an individual and a third-party and not covered by Charity Law, the Charity Commission did not have the remit to investigate these complaints. In the first instance we advised that these complaints be taken up with the trustees directly but failing this suggested he may wish to contact the Information Commissioner.

    In May 2007, Mr xxxxx came back to us with concerns about how a registered charity was dealing with sensitive information, including publishing his name on mailing lists and persons obtaining his contact details. We agreed to write to the trustees to remind them of their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998 and referred Mr xxxxxto the Information Commissioner. The trustees confirmed to us by letter that they had removed Mr xxxx from their mailing list and had no record of contacting him recently. As we had no further regulatory role to play we closed our case.

    I hope this helps. Additionally, I have confirmed with ICO that they will contact us directly if they require any further information from the Charity Commission.

    Yours sincerely
    Michael O’Donovan
    Charity Commission

  23. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:26pm

    Congratulations to The London AIDS Charity …for the e-mails to a Police Panel Member ……
    Subject: Crusaid discussions
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 13:20:47 +0000

    Dear XXXXXXXX,

    Thank you for the email that Robin has forwarded to me as you have requested. I am fully aware of the issues you have raised and hope that your meeting with Robin in January will resolve these for you.
    I understand that there is an issue with the given start date on your contract of employment. I also know that you have pointed this out to Robin and that he has offered to look at and amend this for you. However you have included this in your formal complaint and under the procedures that we have in place, this must be handled in the meeting. No-one has at any point inferred or indicated as your email suggests that your job is being terminated.

    We are aware of the importance of stress in the management of the HIV virus. However w

  24. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:28pm

    Crusaid Head of Dept Charity e-mail to HIV Police Panel Member…..
    “pendantic,uncooperative and causing stress hassle and pain to alot of people” …..If Crusaid is so bad get another Job with a better employer”

    Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:12:56 +0000

    I want to see the two of you in the meeting room tomorrow at 10 am. No excuses. I sincerely hope that this email conversation has not been widely distributed.
    Robin Brady
    Chief Executive

  25. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:31pm

    AIDS Charity UKC writes to Crusaid regarding Police Panel Member & Staff.

    Bernard Forbes []
    >Sent: Tue 2005/03/29 03:48 PM
    >To: Robin Brady
    >Subject: FW: Further favour>
    >Further to below, I am told a letter regarding Walk for Life was received by
    >xxxxxxxon 23 March.
    >Mailshots to xxxx are a waste of Crusaid’s time and money, all they do is
    >wind him up and he then gets on to me.
    >His walker ID is 19882, if that helps to get him off your lists altogether,
    >while we try to help him get his life back together and move on.
    >Best wishes


  26. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:33pm

    Terrence Higgins Trusts Legal Advisor “destroys” Crusaids Gagging Order with Police Panel Member after merging with AIDS Charity as it contains false & incorrect Data.

    To: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 10:23:37 +0000
    Subject: RE: Fao Amanda Bearman THT Legal Advisor – Data Request for Data Being Destroyed by THT
    Dear Mr xxxxxx,
    I’m afraid I am unable to assist with your request as I did not consider the documents, did not keep a list and they are all now destroyed.
    Kind regards
    Amanda Bearman

  27. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:36pm

    Crusaid Trustee’s claim not informed by Management Police Panel Member & Staff Member sent Multiple Medical Data of another Police Panel Member & offered resignation to Chief Inspector of MPS instruct “redundant staff” to take up with Crusaid (now THT) to get job back

  28. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:50pm

    Dear XXXX
    Thank you for emailing the text of the plus-ve article and your letter to Chief Inspector Blood. It was helpful to have these texts and your further explanation of the issues. I wanted to make sure I had read the relevant articles and emails before responding to you.
    I am sorry to hear and read of what you have recently been through. As I am sure you know, the National AIDS Trust is a small policy organisation and we do not provide detailed support or advice for individual cases or complaints – we do not have the capacity to provide such a service nor is it part of our organisational aims and objectives. Thus, whilst personally sorry to hear of your experiences, I have had to consider how, as a small HIV policy organisation, we should appropriately respond.
    One clear policy issue you raise is around the privacy and confidentiality rights of people living with HIV, and the need not just for the public sector, but the HIV sector itself, to improve its respect for such confidentiality. We are this year going to commence a policy project looking in detail at confidentiality issues for people living with HIV so clearly your account will be one we are very aware of as we proceed. Furthermore, we will continue as appropriate to advocate respect for privacy in the sector.
    You also raise wider issues of organisational and individual conduct within the HIV sector. I am afraid we have no role here other than, in everything we do as a charity, to aim to demonstrate values of integrity, respect and professionalism.
    With best wishes
    Deborah Jack
    Stef McCarthy
    Assistant to Chief Executive’s Office
    National AIDS Trust
    New City Cloisters
    196 Old Street
    London EC1V 9FR
    T: (020) 7814 6725
    F: (020) 7216 0111

  29. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 12:54pm

    Congratulations to MPS for using discretion with a Police Panel Member
    Subject: RE: Attendence at Police Station
    Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:33:59 -0000

    Bearing in mind the nature of your concerns I managed to get hold of Chief Inspector Blood and spoke with him in relation to the issues you raise

    At this stage you are not going to be arrested by the Police.

    The reasons for this are as follows:

    In your e-mails you have disclosed that the data was e-mailed to you. Your inadvertant possession of this material would not place you at fault, indeed I might suggest it could not be prevented. Had you taken the Data without authorisation this would of course have been a different matter.

    However your continued possession is problematic but you appear to be taking steps to solve this.

    You disclosed this possession and have now stated that

    a. You have e-mailed the charity concerned stating you have this data and have returned it to them. Similarly you have also sought advice from them.

    b. You have contacted the Data Protection Commision or Helpline and are seeking advice in this respect

    My further advice would be that you do not USE, DISTRIBUTE or ACCESS this data in any way.

    And finally of course Police are able to use discretion, and in view of the above points and assuming there are no change of circumstances you will not be arrested at this stage

  30. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 1:06pm

    Congratulations to The Chairman of London AIDS Charity UKC for writing to The Met Police requesting “Support” for the Police Panel Member who eventually was so “seriously distressed” they left the Police Panel in London and The Charity Commission instructed Crusaid to cease all contact

  31. caped crusaider 29 Apr 2012, 1:17pm

    Crusaid instruct HIV Police Panel Member & Redundant Staff to “MOVE ON” after pain and suffering to alot of people if Crusaid is so bad get another job with a better employer !!From: “Laurence Gilmore”
    To: “>,
    CC: , , ,
    Subject: RE: FAO L GILMORE – INVITATION – Crusaids E-mail
    Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:52:53 +0100

    I have written to you today. We discussed this matter and you confirmed on the telephone and in writing that this has not caused any stress. An error occurred. I dealt with it swiftly. We agreed that was the end of it.

    I respectfully suggest it is time to move on.The circular letter is not offensive and indeed you are going on the walk….which is MARVELLOUS!

  32. Inspector Julie Fry 2 May 2012, 2:29pm

    As chair of Hampshire Constabulary’s LGB&T Resource Group I’ve seen huge improvements in our service to LGB&T communities over the years including being named Stonewall’s top police force for the past five years.

    We have more than 130 Lesbian and Gay Liaison Officers who go into venues and chat rooms to speak directly to LGB&T people and build trust and confidence, encourage people to come forward and report homophobic, biphobic and transphobic incidents and support victims and witnesses.

    I’m not naive enough to think we get it right all the time, but I genuinely believe we get it wrong far less, and when we do we take action to remedy the issue.

    Everyone deserves to be treated fairly, with dignity and respect. If you’re not happy with the service you receive from us, we want to hear about it.

    Insp Julie Fry

    1. Commuity Rep 2 May 2012, 9:33pm

      Inspector Julie Fry,

      The Police have a bizarre way of dealing with hate crimes. Most LGBT people think that when a hate crime is committed the victim is automatically given a specially trained hate crime officer to investigate their case. This is “not true” the Police have a queuing system of coppers that takes the next investigation whether it’s a hate crime or not. It’s luck if you get a hate crime officer to investigate their homophobic hate crime case. The Police need to have a Hate crime unit of specially trained hate crime officer’s that take over an investigation once it’s known or suspected as such in the same way as firearms officers are called if a firearm is known or suspected of being used.

      1. Community Rep 2 May 2012, 9:47pm

        I have seen hate crime officers trying to advise there fellow untrained colleagues with both officers on different shifts and it’s a ‘disaster’ and another disaster is the problem with untrained officers ‘own’ homophobia that balls up the case and the Victim often sees the officers ‘own’ homophobia.

        So Inspector Julie Fry, exactly what do Hampshire Constabulary do after a hate Crime is reported to you? What exactly happens, step by step?

        If the Police can’t get your heads around this, then Homophobic Hate Crimes will continue to be under reported.

      2. Inspector Julie Fry 4 May 2012, 4:55pm

        Every one of our police officers is more than able to deal effectively with all types of crime. Our force recognises when a crime is identified as homophobic, transphobic or biphobic, additional measures are taken to support the victim and witnesses, through the use of Lesbian and Gay Liaison Officers, for example, to offer parity to legislation that exists for other similar hate crimes. All hate crimes are reviewed by an officer of inspector level or above to ensure we are doing all we can to progress the investigation, support the victim and bring the offender to justice.

        1. Community Rep 6 May 2012, 5:19pm

          NO no no, step by step?

          First the victim reports the hate crime. What happens next? Does one of your untrained officers get given the incident to investigate or a Hate Crime officer???

          I know what happens as I’ve explained above. Even when you know its a hate crime you still allow the untrained officer to investigate the Crime.

          Thats where you are going wrong!!!

          1. To be fair to the police, I think it should be on a case by case basis as to what resources are allocated to each crime/incident.

            Whilst clearly any hate crime (whether racial, homophobic or otherwise) should be thoroughly investigated (per ACPO guidelines) and may may require additional resources; whether this specifically requires a trained LGBT liaison officer will vary from case to case. Every officer should be able to give good service to any victim of criminal damage, theft, harassment etc etc.

            If the victim does not get the service they feel is appropriate or is unhappy with the officer then they should raise this with the forces diversity team or the individual officers supervision.

            Some more complex or serious crimes may require officers with additional experience or training.

            Police services could build more confidence by ensuring that LGBT liaison teams either actively investigated all homophobic hate crime or followed up all hate crime to ensure a high level of service

          2. The police need to show us we can trust them.

          3. Craig Denney 7 May 2012, 12:49am

            When Insp Fry talks of:
            “Every one of our police officers is more than able to deal effectively with all types of crime.” You have take that with a pinch of salt?

            Also when she talks of: “All hate crimes are reviewed by an officer of inspector level.” Yes I have been in those meetings too, I think they now call them Homophobic Hate Crime Scrutiny Panel’s.

            And she also talked of legislation: well I did correspond with Jenny Jones in the hope she could do something with regards to the riots in London. The MET has had a lot of bad news recently, with regards to racism (I.E. Hate Crime’s).

            If the Police is not intrested in changing a tiny procedure, then they are homophobes pure and simple.

    2. caped crusaider 6 May 2012, 10:09am

      How was a Police Panel Member and formed staff at Crusaid able to produce all the e-mails above, some of of which The Gay Tories running Crusaid used “charity” money to pay them off to keep quiet…why has those in the LGBT Media that have known for so long kept so quiet – Its not just the Police you cant trust.The LGBT Media for years has been trying to cover up the above story from their own community but why ? ? ? ?

    3. caped crusaider 6 May 2012, 10:13am

      The THT’s Legal Advisor has swiftly and correctly “immediately destroyed” The Trustees of Crusaids “Compromise Agreement” gagging order with a Police Panel Member from 2004 – WHY THE COVER UPS ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

  33. TheLizzie12 11 May 2012, 6:53pm

    I have worked in an inner London borough for many years as an independent voluntary community adviser to our local police. I am gay and I see myself as their “critical friend”. I believe that we can help to change things if we get invloved. It isn’t easy. There is still mistrust. But if we do not get involved, the police will do as they please. I urge LGBT people to join their local Safer Neighbourhood Ward Panels, put themselves forward as independent advisors, do whatever it takes to work in partnership with the police, and then hold them to account. I have done this for 20 years. Stonewall has never given me an award. It would be nice to get a pat on teh back from the LGBT community. But I carry on regardless, knowing that the police will listen and learn, not all the time, but sometimes, and that is what it is all about.

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