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Religious groups respond to Stonewall with ‘Ex-Gay, Get Over It’ London bus adverts

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  1. So who can we complain to? TFL? The ASA?

    1. Could try the ASA as it is fals advertising considerin all the research that has been carried out already in human sexuality. I want to see the advert on the side of a bus before I complain about. I think Stonewall should also do something about it as they have blatantly infringed a copywrite there

    2. Apparently the ASA say for instances of discrimination you should contact the EHRC, but since this is advocating a treatment that doesn’t work and is harmful I think it’s covered so I’ll be contacting both as well as TFL once the poster comes out on Monday.

      1. i think you can only complain to ASA if the content of the advert is offensive or misleading, and i think the advert in question has to be published first before you can complain about it

        but since the add is to be run for two weeks only, not sure if there is any point in complaining in practical terms. it would take ASA probably more then two weeks to investigate it

        1. Kane is right that the advert has to be in the public domain before you complain (and its debatable if it is until it is being used).

          The ASA will tackle complaints about misleading advertising (and with the lack of evidence to support their claims and the multitude of evidence to support so called “ex gay ministries” being damaging – then this seems to fall into the category of misleading and I would encourage everyone to raise a complaint with the ASA.

          It may also form a hate crime.

          I would also target TFL and the bus companies that choose to display them, along with the advertising agencies that place them.

          The EHRC should also consider bringing a case for equality act issues.

    3. This kind of propaganda is done by evil people who are like Goebbels, the Minister of Propaganda. Even the psychiatrist say these anti gay Christians who are behind this are criminals. They know that evil Christians using mind control mixed with pray the gay away is destructive. Ex-gay “therapy” is like an HIV/AIDS virus in the mind, similar to a computer virus, where the computer is still a computer only now it is destroyed. These evil Christians who push their brand of psychological mind control and brain washing called ex gay therapy are criminals and need to be brought to trial on charges of harming another human being and sent to prison to keep them from harming another soul. Christians who use ex gay therapy are frauds and con artist who do it for the money. They need to be stopped at all cost before they destroy any more lives.

  2. FFS what planet are these idiots on? Yes, you are born gay. I did not chose to be gay I am gay because nature made me that way. I am gay and proud of it!

    The comment “implies the false idea that there is indisputable scientific evidence that people are ‘born gay’, and that they have no choice but to affirm their homosexual feelings” could be funny were it no so tragic and far from the truth!

    1. Indeed. One day society will look back on this like we look back on nineteenth century tonics. The fact that people are allow to expound pseudo-scientific bigoted opinions as scientific proof is the most gaulling issue of this whole story. It can only leave you speechless.

      1. I’m still reeling by it. I would love to know which advertising company they used for it too, after all we know they could not have come up with it themselves!

  3. Is this for real? Can we start another campaign advocating straights be cured of their sexuality?

    1. Lovin your logic Dave………

    2. Don’t be fooled into presenting heterosexcuals as the enemy, it is homophobic bigots hiding under a pretence of being religious who are the enemy here.

    3. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 4:45pm

      Well, we all know how the bigots would respond don’t we? Heterosexuality is NORMAL and therefore no need to be changed, whatever normal means.

    4. Better yet, Not Religious! Ex-Bigot, Post-Religious and Proud. Fundamentalism is a choice. Get over it.

  4. Rationality and science progress almost by the hour, christians are being persecuted and in some cases slaughtered in some of the most homophobic countries in the world with hardly a peep from these people. Yet the one “problem” they get really exercised about is homosexuality and same sex marriage?
    I wonder what history will make of them?

  5. “Anglican Mainstream’s Reverend Lynda Rose this afternoon who said it was “misleading” to “imply” they did not like gay people, but that the scriptures “prohibit fornication outside marriage”….”

    Funny, as I recall 1 Corinthians 14:34,35 and 1 Timothy 2:11,12 FORBID women to hold ANY religious authority, so whoever she is needs to shut up talking about things she has no understanding of.
    Yet again, the “Christian” church manipulating Bible verses to their own advantage and twisting words to suit their agenda when they have no real argument at all.

    1. All christians are cherry-picking hypocrites. The nature of their holy book of choice makes it an inevitability.

      1. You’re probably right, I’m glad I don’t believe in biblical inerrancy and chose to love instead of hate.

  6. New Aussie 12 Apr 2012, 2:43pm

    Maybe this would be a good time to post a link to Courage, the Anglican ex gay ministry that did a massive u-turn a few years ago and is now an advocacy group for gay rights within the church: http://www.courage.org.uk/default.asp

    1. it is a massive u-turn but remember that Courage is still anti marriage equality, so keep away from them!

      1. New Aussie 12 Apr 2012, 3:11pm

        I checked that out because I was unaware of that position. It turns out there are two groups called Courage. one is this evangelical pro gay marriage group (or actually tolerant of gay marriage as they respect the right of people to be for and against) and a Catholic group called Courage which is pungently anti gay marriage. The evangelical website actually has a disclaimer on the front page differentiating them from the catholic group.

      2. New Aussie 12 Apr 2012, 3:13pm

        This is the Catholic group: http://couragerc.net/

  7. Paula Thomas 12 Apr 2012, 2:46pm

    Let’s be clear who is trying to ‘ride roucghshod’ over who here. By trying to impose their religious ideology on the religious are the ones doing the riding!!!

    1. Religion has always spread via violence and conquest. Modern christians display a stunning capacity to overlook the amount of slaughter and bloodshed their odious faith inflicted upon indigenous populations. Religion always has been, and always will be, a cancer. To consolidate wealth and power, it must oppress those who are in opposition.

  8. Carl Rowlands 12 Apr 2012, 2:47pm

    Nasty, spiteful, crude.

  9. For “ex-gay” read idiotic religious closet case.

  10. She said while people were “free to choose” homosexuality, those with unwanted attraction to people of their own gender should “should be free to seek help if they want”.

    So if people just chose to be gay why would anyone need help to stop being gay? Surely they just chose not to be – job’s a good ‘un.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 4:29pm

      Why would anyone choose to be gay knowing of the stigma, discrimination and inequality out there? In some countries, we are put to death for it. I wish someone in authority would put these bigots in their place once and for all.

  11. This is an open and shut case. An absolutely watertight open and shut case. Sexuality is inborn and unalterable. You don’t need to do complex psychological studies to show this.

    All you need to do is observe that same-sex attraction and behaviour occurs across all sexual species in the animal kingdom. All of them. All the ones we’ve observed at any rate, which is thousands. How can it possibly have anything to do with culture or conscious choice when none of these animals has culture and most are not self-aware?

    We must complain vigorously to the ASA. The ads make factually incorrect statements, and mislead in a way that could cause real harm to vulnerable people.

    1. Not to mention that they have used the same font and sont colour as well as background colour used by Stonewall and could be confused with their campaign.

  12. Now I’m older and wiser I wouldn’t change a thing about me – I’m gay, get over it. But I never chose this. I didn’t choose to be marginalised, shouted at or worse in the street, threatened with rape, discriminated against in the workplace and in some public places, be made to feel unsafe in some situations, to have to hide who I am at times to avoid the above – who would? What I did do, was embrace who I am and set about building loving, positive friendships and relationships that affirm my existence.

    The whole notion of ex-gay therapy and being led to lead a ‘normal’ heterosexual life turns my stomach!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 4:31pm

      And by normal life, that would have to include heterosexual serial adultery and divorce.

  13. Adam Thomas 12 Apr 2012, 2:57pm

    This feeble attempt at “advertising” pales against stonewalls 1000 adverts (of which i noticed on every other bus that drove past on my visit to London). This means the resemblance to stonewalls posters will likely mean these “ex-gay” posters will actually work against them. People will assume the ad is the stonewall one and not even read it.

  14. I don’t really think people have any cause for complaint here.

    Yes of course the religious cults are displaying their cancerous, vicious bigotry and their complete lack of regard for common sense, science or any form of intelligence (but then again these cultists believe that a fictional genocidal maniac is a ‘higher power’).

    But the actual slogan’s on the cult buses are not slanderous or libellous. Yes they are stupid and bigotted but people will see through them.

    I was confused in the beginning why Stonewall even considered a bus advertising campaign.

    What did they hope to achieve.

    Most people are not hugely homophobic.

    And hugely homophobic people will not be convinced out of their ways by a bus advertising campaign.

    Just as nobody with an ounce of intelligence will regard the cults’ campaign as anything other than truly bigotted stupidity.

    1. well, the message is misleading inaccurate and offensive

      1. Well it’s an advertisement.

        It’s sort of the whole point of that absurd industry.

        1. really?!

    2. Hodge Podge 12 Apr 2012, 5:15pm

      These adverts could genuinely mess up vulnerable people

    3. I can’t seem to find a reply meant for this comment so I’ll post it again

      -Slanderous and libellous means that they’re making defamatory and false claims, which they are, as there is nothing wrong with being homosexual/bisexual and you can’t change your sexual orientation
      -Stonewall was making a point that people are going to be gay no matter what homophobes say
      -It depends on where you live about the homophobia. Sure, in first world countries, most people aren’t hugely homophobic, but a lot of people are homophobic
      -I’m complaining because people are spreading lies. A homophobe might see something like this and use it as fuel to say that people can change their sexual orientation (which they can’t)

    4. @dAVID

      TFL disagreed with you when they pulled the advertising campaign around an hour ago stating that having listened to concerns that had been forward to them from their advertising agents that they had decided to block this campaign:

      “This advertisement has just been brought to our attention by our advertising agency, CBSO and we have decided that it should not run on London’s bus or transport networks, We do not believe that these specific ads are consistent with TfL’s commitment to a tolerant and inclusive London.”

  15. Deceiving themselves and proud?

  16. Well I will be contacting TFL, ASA and the EHRC.

    Its laughable that they are putting this campaign together when Exodus International have admitted that they have not seen a single person change their orientation from gay to straight and the day after Dr Robert Spitzer retracted his study. Spitzer has regrets for what he now considers to be errant interpretations of the reports of his study participants. He is very clear that his findings were inaccurate saying he has “second thoughts about his study” and he now believes “his conclusions don’t hold water.”. An important aspect is that he now believes that the criticisms of the study expressed in the 2003 Archives of Sexual Behavior issue are “more true to the data” than his conclusions were. He also said that there was some obligation to say the critics were right and that the study should be withdrawn.

    For more than a decade, ‘ex-gays’ have relied on the results of a 2001 study to prove their claim that “change is possible.” But

    1. if they continue to promote its flawed research, they will do so only in the knowledge that its author has publically disowned it.
      Exodus International has already purged its bookstore of NARTH materials, and its president, Alan Chambers, declared earlier this year that “99.9 percent of the people I know have not changed their orientation.”. So, will Chambers and Exodus now purge Spitzer from its archives the way it purged NARTH and the pseudoscience of reparative therapy? Will Chambers perhaps finally admit that the “change” Exodus has promoted for 40 years hardly happens at all? That it might be possible to manage choices and behaviour, but that fundamental change in sexual attractions is a pipe-dream? With Spitzer’s retraction, the hope of academic support for the ex-gay paradigm grows ever dimmer.

      Spitzer said that he was proud of having been instrumental in removing homosexuality from the list of mental disorders. Now 80 and retired, he was afraid that the 2001 study would

    2. tarnish his legacy and perhaps hurt others. He said that failed attempts to rid oneself of homosexual attractions “can be quite harmful.”

      All strongly positive, although those whose eyes and ears are covered by the scales of fundamentalist indoctrination will remain blind and deaf to the facts and evidence. Honourable clinicians and professional bodies will accept the evidence and hold those to account who cause harm to their patients by engaging in such damaging approaches. The fundamental first ethical principle of medicine (and other clinical approaches) is “Do no harm” (or “Primum non nocere”) and this clinicians engaging in exgay therapies should be held to account by their regulatory bodies and employers.

      Its simultaneously laughable and concerning that with all reputable evidence discredited or retracted that organisations could seek to hurt and hate in public. These posters are a hate crime.

      1. I’m not sure this is very much different to the no gays zone fliers that were put up round the East end of London.
        Do Anglican Mainstream really have any persons who can demonstrate that they were once gay but are now not gay! ex-gay, post-gay and proud?
        False advertising.

        1. @Pavlos

          They werent put up on buses having been paid for by Anglican Mainstream and The Core Issues Trust, for quite a while the No gays zone posters were anonymous and thus making a complaint to anyone other than the police was impossible.

          Here we know who is responsible and they are not just sticking up offensive graffiti – they are putting up offensive graffiti masquerading as legitimate advertising. Thats where we can complain!

      2. No one likes a grass.
        These people are entitled to their opinion, and why should Stonewall be allowed to post its posters, if no one can challenge it with theirs? Hardly equal is it..

        1. A grass? – did someone do something wrong – ah that will be the Anglican Mainstream and their dodgy friends!

          Tell you what, theres nothing I like less than a sore loser (who also happens to be a bigot!) – ah there you are AIden – what a shock! ;-)

    3. in practical terms is there any point in complaining, two weeks is not enough for ASA to stop it

      1. In practical terms – cost the Anglican Mainstream massive embarrassment and expense in tackling a prosecution and for the truth to be outed – oh yes, hell yes, it is worth it.

      2. I think we should complain to ASa and TFL regardless. These ads are offensive not because you or I might see but because a young person might see them and believe themselves less than for not being able ‘change’.

        I met this Mike Davison guy. We should be fighting back against his misinformed views.

  17. So-called ex-gay “therapy” has done massive harm to people who have had it inflicted on them. I think it is disgusting that these adverts have been allowed.
    .
    They are also giving religion a really bad name – there are several religious traditions that support LGBT equality and welcome LGBTs and advocate marriage equality. (Unitarians, Quakers, Liberal Jews, Pagans, Metropolitan Community Church, and Shinto.) There is an LGBT advocacy group for just about every religious tradition, too. So it is simply disingenuous on their part to claim that “Christians have a different understanding of sexuality” when many Christians do support marriage equality and think that ex-gay “therapy” is harmful and wrong.
    .
    And as for the Bible being used to support homophobia, just Google for “debunking clobber passages” for a different interpretation of the bits that conservative Christians use to justify their hateful nonsense.

    1. The only way to try to get through to these people is to argue and argue and argue with them over their distorted view of scripture. Trying to appeal to them on any other point is a waste of time as they’re not going to listen. These are people who think they have an answer to everything because it says so in the Bible, but when you dig down, you find how shallow their understanding of scripture really is. It’s literalism and nothing more

  18. That slogan looks like one of “Keith’s” rambling aliases

    1. Huh?

  19. Besides, don’t they know that a huge number of homophobes are closet cases anyway?
    .
    I quote Mark Morford:
    .
    “Homophobes might be secretly attracted to people of the same sex,” is what the headline read, I mean obviously, I mean of course you already know what the researchers discovered, you and every conscious human within a 10,000 mile radius who also snickered, rolled her eyes and then sighed heavily with the obviousness of it all. It is not always the way?

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/04/11/notes041112.DTL#ixzz1rpp66e1R

    1. A great bus slogan campaign that would make
      “Homophobes might be secretly attracted to people of the same sex,”

      1. Anyone contacted Outrage!?

  20. This will probably do Gay people as a whole a favour, since they’re advertising their idiocy in a way we can only wish to.

    However it’s likely to adversely affect individuals in denial/ self hatred with regards their sexuality.

  21. Truly a sickening campaign by this bunch of religious nutjobs!

  22. You can’t be ex-gay, it’s false advertisement. You either have to be lying to yourself or you have to be a bisexual person who chooses to be with the opposite gender.

    Sexual orientation is not a choice. Stuff like this needs to be removed

    1. The ASA won’t see it that way though.

      The phrase ‘ex-gay’ is utterly meaningless.

      Does it mean;

      a) Someone who underwent conversion therapy through the power of Jesus H. Christ (PhD) and now claims to be straight.

      or

      b) A person who previously identified as gay but now identifies as bi

      or

      c) Someone who rejects the label ‘gay’ and now idenitifies as ‘queer’.

      It is really is a clever advert as it hides its true slanderous meaning behind a sly slogan.

      And the response they are looking for is gay revulsion at their tactics so they can whine about the nasty gays opposing freedom of speech and religiion

      1. Dr Robin Guthrie 12 Apr 2012, 4:03pm

        ‘ex-gay’ is not meaningless.

        It has been debunked by all UK medical authorities as harmful.

        Ergo. The advert is false.

      2. It means that someone is either homosexual & lies to themselves pretending to be heterosexual or a person who identified as homosexual but is bisexua & chooses to be with only people of the opposite gender. By ex gay they mean homosexuals who “aren’t homosexual” anymore (and I’m pretty sure they mean being bi doesn’t count either, they don’t want any type of homosexual attraction, sex, etc).

        1. bisexual*

      3. This is how I know what they are saying

        -They are a religious group
        -They said, “While it “recognise the rights of individuals to identify as gay”, it says “married men and women unhappy with their homosexuality should be supported in developing their heterosexual potential, where this is the appropriate life choice for them”
        They said people are free to choose homosexuality
        There they said people can choose their sexual orientation, which is false. They also implied being homosexual is not appropriate, but there is nothing wrong with it. If a person is homosexual, they can not become heterosexual.
        -They said homosexuals should be free to seek help, but there is nothing to be helped
        -They put the word equality in marriage equality in quotes like marriage “equality” which shows their stance on homosexual marriage
        -They think that homosexual couples can’t raise healthy and normal children (they can)
        -They try to force the beliefs of their evil religion on other people,

        1. To add why it’s harmful, is because
          -Homosexuals that pretend to be heterosexual aren’t going to be happy
          -It just adds to some people’s self-loathing
          -Gay conversion therapy leads to mental trauma and quite often suicide
          -It gives people false “hope”
          -It fuels the fire of people who say homosexuality and bisexuality can be changed, which it can’t, and that it’s a choice, which it is not

  23. It’s interesting to me that the Rev LYNDA is female. It wasn’t long ago that she would simply not be in her position due to her gender. Has she forgotten the prejudice she experienced along with the archaic views about her gender that religious organisations peddled? She is the voice of this organisation and yet just over 20 years ago she would not have been able to speak!!

  24. David Wainwright 12 Apr 2012, 3:24pm

    “promotion of homosexual practices to children and young people, many of whom are known to experience ambivalence as they sort through issues of sexual identity, is misleading and dangerous”.

    Leaving ones home is DANGEROUS , so what is their point ?

  25. can we ask for their evidence? they are making a positive claim after-all.

  26. David Wainwright 12 Apr 2012, 3:26pm

    One would think in a world where 23,000 children starve to death every single day that these so called christians would have higher priorities .

    1. Helping the poor, the needy and the suffering takes time, energy, money and commitment. Hating LGBT people is easy and free. Both are endorsed by the text of choice and both let a person feel “holy.” Is it any wonder that people take the easy path?

  27. Dan Filson 12 Apr 2012, 3:27pm

    Let’s see which t-shirt outsells!

  28. Ed Johnson 12 Apr 2012, 3:33pm

    Text or call ‘Mike Davidson’, he seems to be behind this. Mobile: 07833 098 998.

    http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2012/04/12/london-bus-campaign-challenges-stonewalls-claim-that-gay-is-innate/

    1. He is the same Mike Davidson who has been booted out of the British Psychodrama Association (he never even got through training) and was caught out passing off his credentials by the head of the UKCP live on radio.

      His own website basically accuses the BPA of not listening to him and his delusions (he doesn’t use the word delusion obviously). He is like a spoilt child who can’t get the big boys in the popular gang to play with him.

  29. Hilarious that they should tout their debunked snake oil nonsense in the same week one of the leading proponents of ex-gay therapy, Dr Robert Spitzer, conceded that his own study and conclusions were utter hogwash and has withdrawn them.

    Even groups like Exodus International concede that no one actually changes, they just teach people to repress themselves (and a little research in to the founders and leaders of Exodus – Michael Bussee, Gary Cooper and John Paulk will leave you crying with laughter).

  30. In that case are priests not born paedophiles. Is it something they ‘learn’ when they enter the priesthood! Oh, and I’m a hetro who doesn’t see why I should have a phobia about gays. Live and let live baby!

  31. What will people complain to the ASA about though?

    Let’s look at the slogan.

    ‘Not gay! Post gay! Ex-gay! And proud!’

    The only conceiveable part of that could merit complaint is the ‘ex-gay’ part.

    But even that in and of itself is very vague.

    The whole point of this campaign is not to persuade the public about their views.

    It is to rile the gay community into a response so that they can whine ‘Oh look, poor us, those nasty gays are denying our freedom of speech’.

    Don’t fall for it.

    1. ‘Not gay! Post gay! Ex-gay! And proud!’

      Sounds like the introduction to the worst superhero/(insert your own type) group in history tbh

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 4:36pm

      There is more than sufficient information out there from various psychological institutions, the BPA is one of them and several in the U.S. that have debunked the ex-gay myth. That alone is enough to use against these bigots who can’t even produce any evidence to support their nonsense. In fact, they are helping promote misery. All of those ex-gay ministries are scammers, preying on the most vulnerable and fleecing them of their money. What they are doing is dishonest and fraudulent.

      1. Absolutely, Robert

        Exactly why I have made a complaint to the ASA.

        The advertising is dishonest and damaging.

        We have mechanisms to assist where there is concern about advertising and/or hatred – we should allow them the opportunity to work.

        If we don’t complain – we are guaranteed to get zero service.

        1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 6:09pm

          Me too, Stu. Did you hear any more about the C4M ad in Country Life? I received a confirming acknowledgement from ASA’s Julia Dean last week, but haven’t heard any more.

          1. @Robert

            All I have so far is an acknowledgement from Julia Dean and a follow up stating they have had numerous complaints lodged and they are seeking some information from Country Life and others before moving the case forward.

            I see TFL have blocked Anglican Mainstreams advertising campaign after the concerns that have been expressed. I would love to be a fly on the wall in David Skinners house this evening seeing him foaming at the mouth!

    3. On the other hand we could see it as an opportunity to demonstrate that this kind of homophobia will not be tolerated. Other bigots will think twice next time.

    4. David’s point is valid. Why bother banning Anglican mainstream adverts, when its spokesmen are invited onto BBC shows, where their views are never challenged.

      Allowing the ad would have allowed LGBT people to set the narrative and remind the general public where the intimidation is coming from. Sweeping the ad and the carpet has allowed the poisonous sentiment that inspired it to remain hidden too. And if we want to win the battle of equality, we will have to expose that hatred and take these people head on, through heated discourse, not censoring an ad. Regretfully.

  32. Are people born gay?
    Can people be changed?
    Both irrelevant questions. The people behind this advert should know that.

    What matters is that attempts to change gay people rely on the assumption that there is something wrong with them.

    Stonewall’s message is about breaking that myth. Gay people shouldn’t feel the need to change and nobody else should feel the need to change them.

    1. Hodge Podge 12 Apr 2012, 5:54pm

      THIS. Never sound apologetic.

  33. What is the point of this advert exactly? Even if people truly were “ex-gay” or whatever they want to call it, so what? Do they face discrimination from Joe Public or their country? Not that I’m aware of so what’s the point of their “message”?

  34. Well done, Prof Andrew Samuels, for using your expert opinion to challenge the blinkered idiocy of homophobic religionists.

    Positive change can take a long time, and we are all forging that positive change in history. Let’s not get despondent about the inevitable opposition, and let’s continue to be patient and hopeful, as outmoded religious ideas that have caused so much human misery, gradually fade into oblivion.

    And let’s also not forget that, while we are battling against the prejudice of fundamentalist ‘Christians’, there are millions of LGBT people in fundamentalist ‘Islamic’ states who daren’t even tell anyone they are LGBT, let alone form any relationships.

  35. I’ve just complained to the ASA about the banner advert on the Anglican Mainstream’s page… it is already published online and meets the ASA criteria as a banner ad. I will complain again when it is on the busses as a separate advert.

  36. Dr Robin Guthrie 12 Apr 2012, 3:58pm

    Some interesting comments over at the Archbisop Cranmer site.

    One of the FEW christian sites you can actually leave comments.

    http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/christians-fight-back-on-stonewalls.html

  37. “Anglican Mainstream’s Reverend Lynda Rose this afternoon who said it was “misleading” to “imply” they did not like gay people, but that the scriptures “prohibit fornication outside marriage”.

    We really need same sex marriage to stop all this ex-gay nonsense and hateful discrimination.
    Dan Savage on What the Institution of Marriage Means

  38. I know this is talking around the main issue, but I really think this is a bit of an advertising fail. The message is going to be quite unclear to most of the general public. Ex-gay and post gay are terms not generally understood in the way fundamentalists and quack psychiatrists use them.

    I’m a big fan of free speech, and if Stonewall want to do it then there’s no reason the Christians can’t. But they really need to up their game if they are going to compete with the clarity of “Some people are gay. Get over it”.

    1. Dr Robin Guthrie 12 Apr 2012, 4:36pm

      Done

  39. Why are we surprised? I’ve been waiting for this since the first Stonewall bus was rolled out.

    1. Surprised? No. Gratified to see the bigots given a well aimed political slap in the face and told to shove their bloody adverts.

  40. Dr Robin Guthrie 12 Apr 2012, 4:17pm

    Seems to be backfiring already.

    Check out some of the comments here.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/12/christian-anti-gay-ads-buses#start-of-comments

    Hilarious.

  41. Wow, this is disgusting. Perhaps some
    ‘NOT christian! EX-christian, POST- christian and proud of it. GET OVER IT!’ adverts should be paid for? The difference being of course that one can be ex-christian. Although ex-gay just means – they repress their sexuality (and usually end up paying for sex on the quiet). I will certainly be complaining to the ASA.

  42. johnny33308 12 Apr 2012, 4:23pm

    Every scientific study of this issue clearly indicates that gay cannot be changed, even if the person strongly wishes it. Medicine also agrees with this position. It is only the bigoted, the phony religious, the prejudiced who state that gay can be changed, in spite of the well established data to the contrary. This is a distraction used to confuse those undecided about equal marriage…even these idiots cannot rationally believe that their unenlightened ‘opinion’ could possibly trump scientific evidence….oh, wait a minute, these same people claim dinosaurs and people shared the earth together 8,000 years ago….never mind.

  43. Where are all these not, ex and post gays then?
    Are they all down at the local not, ex and post gay bar?
    Do they exist anywhere except in the homophobic imagination of the Wayne Kerrs at Anglican Mainstream who put this misguided campaign together?

  44. I wish they would just f*** off! I’ve had my fill of religion!

  45. How ridiculous. Do you think they’ve considered that if gay people can become straight, then straight people must also be able to become gay? Some people are just so small-minded.

  46. If this is what the church is spending their money on, they really are bankrupt.

  47. Is this bus campaign organised by a group of homophobic ex-gays?
    Are all the people at Anglican Mainstream ex-gays? Who knew?

  48. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 4:37pm

    Is there such a thing as an ex-straight I wonder? The day these morons can provide evidence to demonstrate that, then maybe they’ll have some credence.

  49. TFL is a public sector body. Under the Equality Act 2010 they must, in the exercise of their functions, have due regard to the need to:

    Eliminate unlawful discrimination, harassment and victimisation and other conduct prohibited by the Act.

    Advance equality of opportunity between people who share a protected characteristic and those who do not.
    Foster good relations between people who share a protected characteristic and those who do not.

    The EHRC can investigate and prosecute any public sector organisation who are in breach of the Act.

  50. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 4:43pm

    Could not London Transport have refused their posters? Or issue a disclaimer that the message contained does not reflect the view of London Transport?

    This only shows how obssessive and aggressive these bigots are to stop marriage equality.

    1. Any Transport company working for TFL are covered by the Equality Act. Anything which negatively impacts on the EA Public Sector Duties are in breach of the Act. That would include any advertising procured by the operator. The ASA could ‘find against’ the advertisers and require them to withdraw the advert, however, as it is only likely to run for 2 weeks, probably won’t amount to much. The EHRC could make an intervention under the EA immediately and instruct TFL to have all adverts removed pending a full enquiry. That would be my route of complaint.

    2. Thankfully they have!

      See there are some people with some decency in the world!

  51. complain!!!!!

    COMPLAIN TO TFL, THE ASA – WHATEVER!!! JUST COMPLAIN!!!

  52. Maybe Pink News could ask the London Mayor (and candidates) an opinion on whether TFL buses can carry adverts like this. Can’t imagine something like “Not black – and proud” being acceptable to any of them.

    1. Excellent idea – should add it to the news story about the mayors questions jsut to make sure!

  53. tfl should refuse to run the ad on the bases that it is offensive to thousands of londoners due to inaccuracy of the content and misleading claims. it is one of ad contracts that tfl could do without

  54. Email sent to the ASA, EHRC, TFL, Boris, all London bus companies, all advertising agencies that sell advertising on London buses and a few other interested parties.

    Will be interesting to see the response.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 6:04pm

      It will be interesting to see ASA’s response. I emailed them the C4M ad in Country Life. An acknowledgement was received but have not heard any more. Anyone else?

    2. Well done Stu,

      Appears yours and others actions have resulted in TFL taking prompt action: https://twitter.com/#!/tflofficial/status/190488435159597057

    3. You have too much time on your hands.
      Are you not meant to be on duty waiting for 999 calls?

      1. As I have already told you – back on shift on Saturday.

        I use my time productively to help campaigns to prevent bigots sending out homophobic messages ….

        I’m not going to apologise for it, nor am I going to stop.

  55. Kerry Hollowell 12 Apr 2012, 4:57pm

    I think they have shot themselves in the foot with their ads. It took me a couple of reads to realise what their intention is. I think most of the public will just see and process ” the gay and proud, get over it” message

    1. yes, especially when stonewall ad is already highly visible

  56. I’ve just started a petition to the ASA and TFL to have these adverts pulled. Please sign it! http://www.change.org/petitions/the-advertising-standards-authority-stop-harmful-religious-ex-gay-therapy-adverts-on-london-buses

    1. Signed and shared!

  57. Found a facebook group opposing the ads;
    http://www.facebook.com/groups/405273652817629/

  58. Suggested letter:

    As you may aware London buses have been booked to carry a Christian
    advertising campaign which asserts the power of therapy to change the
    sexual orientation of gay people.

    The full length advert, which will appear on five different routes in
    the capital, is backed by the Core Issues Trust whose leader, Mike
    Davies, believes “homoerotic behaviour is sinful”. His charity funds
    “reparative therapy” for gay Christians who believe that they have
    homosexual feelings but want to become straight. The campaign is also
    backed by Anglican Mainstream, an worldwide orthodox Anglican group
    whose supporters have equated homosexuality with alcoholism

    I find this campaign and the aims of this group to be sinister and
    insulting and would ask you intervene with TFL as this is another
    attack against the LGBT community by religious fanatics. We have
    recently seen campaigns by Muslim groups which ended with criminal
    charges and now have this ant-Gay Christian group putting forward the

    1. bigoted view that Gay people are psychologically disordered.

      Yours sincerely,

    2. Fine, if it’s LGB, because T has nothing to do with this

    3. I wouldn’t call Anglican Mainstream Orthodox – they tend to sh1t all over human reason…

  59. I can just see all this on HAVE I GOT NEW FOR YOU- with pictures of both bus ads! Ian Hislop will have a ball!

  60. hexa wrote
    “This advertising counts as aggressive public harrassment of a social group and is indeed essentially fascistic – the same spirit as ethnic cleansing, religious persecution, etc.”

  61. I’m outraged. Just speechless.

  62. WE NEED A MASS DEMONSTRATION. WE CANT LET THIS BE OUT THERE HURTING GAY KIDS LIKE THIS.

    1. last thing we need is to give the ad even more free publicity. the way to go about it is to put a lot of pressure on asa and tfl to kill off the ad in the bud

  63. I think I posted something meant to be replied to dAVID so forgive me if you find it replied to you

  64. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 5:58pm

    ASA will ask you specifically where you saw the ad and will ask for a copy of it.

  65. I do not approve

  66. This is passive-agressive provocation and goading of the GLBT community by a group of homophobic christians. Religious people should take note the swoards they brandish to attack will turn on them in time; in fact, it alread has begun, and they are only showing their desperation by doing this.

    1. Oh, absolutely! This advertisement reeks of desperation; of a cause and an argument lost.

      I’m afraid we will have to brace ourselves for such nastiness and spite, right up until the final vote on marriage equality.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 6:05pm

      Fantastic! Thanks, STOP HATE for posting it.

      1. Thanks to every PN reader who contacted TFL! Just goes to show we can make a difference. EHRC should still investigate why this was ever allowed in the first instance. The operators were obliged to carry out an Equality Impact Assessment which clearly failed.

  67. Is it actually legal to publicly display a parody advertisement like this?

    1. It almost certainly contravenes the Equality Act

      1. But I was thinking in copyright terms – isn’t it against the law to rip off another organisation’s format when advertising?

        1. Not sure … I know that parody is a defence to some civil issues – but not sure how far that extends …

  68. I confess I don’t see the amount of outrage here. Some people are gay but do not want to be. It is their choice to try being something else, they may fail but it is their choice, so her comment about how they “should be free to seek help if they want” is only fair.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 12 Apr 2012, 6:19pm

      You just don’t get it Pedro. Nobody has ever been able to change their natural orientation, ad admission that ex-gay scam organisation Exodus International has even stated. Some may remain celibate, few and far between, but it does NOT mean they’ve changed their orientation. None of those so called ‘christian’ based organisations can produce any evidence. It’s like eye colour, immutable. The people running the ad are hypocrites. They say that fornication outside of marriage is wrong, yet they are not targeting heterosexuals to reform, given the state of hetero marriage rates and divorce as a result of adultery (fornication outside of marriage which is the real threat to the institution, perpetrated only by heterosexuals of course). This in nothing more than a veiled attempt at promoting homphobia and intolerance thereof as a means to thwart equal marriage. Where where they and where was their concern long before the consultation began?

  69. Steve Cheney 12 Apr 2012, 6:05pm

    I propose a new poster campaign:

    http://tinyurl.com/d47l3ll

    1. You’re genius!

    2. @Steve — and of course, ex-straight people far outnumber ex-gay people.

      Genius poster (in both senses of the word).

    3. I will still be picky – no David Skinners …. *bleurgh*

  70. For me as non-believer argument ‘gay is not right, because bible says it’ always makes laugh. I would say ‘There is no God, get over it’. Nobody gonna come and bring you back to live, because you were such a good servant to your maker. But that’s my personal view. Going back to this article. Campaign clearly says ‘Some people are gay, get over it’, it does not imply that everyone can become gay if they wanted to. But they basically came up with something, that could be turned against any gay person. Saying that you can become straight again, its just saying that every gay person can be cured, because they are not normal. And I thought we got over this topic long time ago. I just wonder sometimes what’s going on in those people heads.

    1. As a believer I have great sympathy with your viewpoint, I too tire of the oft used trump card.

    1. Excellent news.

  71. I have just received an email back from an advertising sales group which both confirmed that Anglican Mainstream and The Core Issues Trust are not their clients.

    They also stated:
    “CBS outdoor operate the London bus advertising. On behalf of transport for London ”

    The relevant contact details are:
    Valerie.todd@tfl.gov.uk
    customerservices@tfl-buses.co.uk
    tony.ramirez@cbsoutdoor.co.uk
    liam.reynolds@cbsoutdoor.co.uk
    Aiden.Dunning@cbsoutdoor.co.uk

    I suggest they are advised by as many people as possible of how offensive, hurtful and damaging their campaign is.

    1. No one likes a grass

      1. No one likes a bigot (as this episode clearly shows!)

      2. This is a site for grown ups Aiden.

    1. pink news keep up

  72. TFL has just tweeted — the ads have been pulled !

    https://twitter.com/tflofficial/status/190488435159597057

    This is very welcome news.

    1. Great News!!! . . . Harry, thanks for highlighting this tweet

      1. Thanks JohnK – news spreads fast, and whilst I was typing a few others beat me to it !

  73. The bus companies should be boycotted for displaying such irresponsible rubbish.

    1. CBS Outdoor advertising should be made to know that supporting religious extremism and homophobia is ignorant and wrong

  74. Anti-gay adverts on London buses blocked by Boris Johnson
    Mayor steps in to stop London buses carrying Christian group’s ‘offensive’ ads that claim therapy can stop people being gay
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/12/anti-gay-adverts-boris-johnson

    1. Conspectus 12 Apr 2012, 6:38pm

      Mayor steps in to stop London buses carrying Christian group’s ‘offensive’ ads that claim therapy can stop people being gay

      Boris Johnson, the Conservative mayor, has pulled an “offensive” Christian campaign advertising “gay conversion” which was due to appear on London’s buses next week.

      Revelations that adverts asserting the power of therapy to change the sexual orientation of gay people were due to be driven around the capital came as Johnson, who is seeking re-election in May, was due to appear at a mayoral hustings organised by the gay campaigning group Stonewall on Saturday.

      The mayor immediately put the wheels in motion to halt the campaign after being alerted to the plans by the Guardian, and made clear that such advertising had no place in a tolerant city.

      A clearly angered Johnson said: “London is one of the most tolerant cities in the world and intolerant of intolerance. It is clearly offensive to suggest that being gay is an illness that someone recovers from and I a

    2. Thank God!! (Pun intended) Christians are so evil.

  75. From Huffington Post:

    “However Transport for London said on Thursday evening that after initially green lighting the campaign it had decided to block them.

    “This advertisement has just been brought to our attention by our advertising agency, CBSO and we have decided that it should not run on London’s bus or transport networks,” TfL said. “We do not believe that these specific ads are consistent with TfL’s commitment to a tolerant and inclusive London.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/04/12/anti-gay-bus-advert-banned-religious-groups-wanted-to-promote-gay-conversion-therapy-on-london-buses_n_1421204.html?1334251690&ref=uk

    Goes to show, making a fuss and complaining does work sometimes!

    1. Indeed, complaining does work!!!

      Do not make a fuss

      Make a huge fuss . . . so to speak

  76. If only there was an internet news service for LGBT people that could mention the good news …

    … whilst the sun is still burning.

  77. Had the ad campaign been placed by a group claiming to change a black person’s race by spurious “therapeutic means” , helping those with unwanted racial characteristics then I think we can see how gratuitously offensive the ad is, that’s if you couldn’t already see that already.

    NOT BLACK! EX-BLACK, POST-BLACK AND PROUD. GET OVER IT!

  78. theGentleWarrior 12 Apr 2012, 6:49pm

    These people must have idiots working in their PR.
    Anyone worth there salt in advertising would have changed the slogan to;
    “Ex-Gay, Got Over It.”

  79. Thanks for playing christians, now, wind your necks in, pack up your fairy stories and p!ss right off.

  80. religion poisons everything.

    1. Actually, what they poison the most though is any godly concept of God…(the evil tossers…)

  81. Tony Nicholas 12 Apr 2012, 11:02pm

    If I could choose to be Gay, would I? Of course I would, Gay is good, Gay is natural, Gay is normal… the pain, the shame, the stigma, is not our fault. Being Gay is a vaild choice [if it ever were a choice]

  82. What a load of sanctimonious bollocks!

    How can anyone saying they’re a follower of Christ be so utterly stupid and ungodly?

    The words ‘what’ ‘a’ ‘bunch’ ‘of’ ‘complete’ and ‘tossers’ spring to mind…

  83. It’s hard to imagine just why TFL thought it acceptable to allow extremist fringe religious fundamentalist to post their hate propaganda on their vehicles when not so very long ago members of another extremist fringe religious fundamentalist group (albeit of a different religion, yet still sharing the same irrational hatred of LGBT people) blew up a London bus causing the tragic deaths of scores of innoncent passengers.

  84. Spanner1960 13 Apr 2012, 3:28pm

    If you talk to God, you’re religious; if God talks to you, you’re psychotic.
    – Hugh Laurie

    1. Staircase2 16 Apr 2012, 6:43pm

      Actually Hugh Laurie got that very wrong…

      God and Religion are not one and the same thing at all…

  85. Well okay… over it,
    but basically that mean’s you can accept that some people are gay,
    so go get over that too…

    And that doesn’t mean condemning them.

    1. John Thomas 14 Apr 2012, 2:45pm

      You are aware that there is a huge proportion of society that are not gay, do not have gay ideals and freely practice sex with their consenting partners without your knowledge and or approval.
      They have no need to shout about this.

      Gays however feel they must, squeal and cry above the rooftops about how their personal preference of perversion is everything right in the world and entirely centred around their ‘personalities’.
      It’s no more than the concept of being wildly indiscriminate of where you stick your cock.
      Nothing to shout about and even less to be proud of.

      Carry on and be what you want to be, just do not expect the majority to pretend it’s normal.
      Though it is against the law to say so, you’ll never change that single fact.

  86. John Thomas 14 Apr 2012, 3:33pm

    You’re aware that there is a huge proportion of society that are not gay, do not have gay ideals and freely practice sex with their consenting partners without your knowledge and or approval.
    They have no need to shout about this.

    Gays however feel they must, squeal and cry above the rooftops about how their personal preference of perversion is everything right in the world and entirely centred around their ‘personalities’.
    It’s no more than the concept of being wildly indiscriminate of where you stick your cock.
    Nothing to shout about and even less to be proud of.

    Carry on and be what you want to be, just do not expect the majority to pretend it’s normal.
    Though it is against the law to say so, you’ll never change that single fact.

    1. Got this one a bit mixed up haven’t we Mr Thomas.

      See if you had a shred of intelligence you would realise it’s discriminative to talk about ‘gays’ as a whole. Afterall, we are all individuals and all have our own thought processes. Be they pink, fluffy and clad with glitter as you would like to believe.

      While there are homosexual people out there on a gay crusade to have their voice heard, I can hardly blame them when people with your mindset still unfortunately exist. You may think a male and male or female and female relationship is abnormal, yet as you’ve pointed out free love is not a crime. I think we are all in agreement that love is perfectly natural. We feel love from the day we are born and in most cases will until the day we die.

      Why should the minor detail of the recipients genitalia have anything to do with this?

  87. Let’s be honest, Christianity has becomes a joke now. I’m all for accepting whatever people choose to believe in but anyone following this garbage about ‘turning straight’ needs to have a word with themselves.

    If we can stop ourselves from being gay they can stop themselves from being Christian and having such neanderthol views.

  88. Rob Anderson 15 Apr 2012, 4:56pm

    The simple way to stop all this is when Heterosexual Couples STOP having sex and making Gay Babies!
    If we are to live according to the Christian beliefs, there would be no poly blended clothes, women would be virgins before marriage, all men would not be clean shaven, any women who are menstruating would be considered “unclean”…and there would be no women in Christian Ministry as Priests….oh and ALL fornicators, (and its usually those who are married) would be stoned to death. I wonder how many of these “Christians” will believe when the Messiah returns? What proof will they ask?..”hes not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!”

  89. Anglican Mainstream has prominent links on it’s website to resources from listed hate group The Family Research Council entitled “Top Ten Myths about Homosexuality” it can be found under Resources for Same-sex and Transgender Issues.

    The Family Research Council is listed among others as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Centre most of these are religiously motivated groups that have continued to pump out demonizing propaganda aimed at homosexuals and other sexual minorities Generally, the SPLC’s listings of these groups is based on their propagation of known falsehoods — claims about LGBT people that have been thoroughly discredited by scientific authorities — and repeated, groundless name-calling.

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