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European court rules homophobic cleric Abu Hamza can be extradited to US

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  1. gerry leddy 10 Apr 2012, 11:37am

    that is terrible news, I have mixed emotions , joy and happiness, what i love about the law is on occasions justice is seen to happen .

  2. Now all together

    Na Na Na Naaa Na Na Na Naaa

    Hey hey hey…GOODBYE!!!

  3. If he kicks up this much of a fuss when somebody just asks him to go on trial and face prison, somehow I doubt he’d actually be very well-suited to a proper Sharia country. He criticises Western democracy and human rights to his supporters, but is more than happy to waste everybody’s time and money benefitting from them when he thinks it might buy him some more time in Britain (a country which he claims to hate). Let’s just hope he manages to get to America without bombing his plane.

    1. Make him swim ;)

    2. People like Cap’n Hook are only happy with systems where they’re the only ones that hold the power – it’s the classic mindset of all authoritarian/megalomaniacal types.

  4. So long as he will not be subject to the death penalty for his crimes then I think this extradition is fine.

    However the US needs to give assurances that he will be allowed to have a trial (which is no longer a right in the US) and that he will not be subject to the death penalty.

    If the US breaks these promises then it simply means that no-one should ever be extradited there again.

    1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 1:22pm

      If he committed the crimes on US soil, then he is subject to US laws, and if that requires capital punishment, then so be it.

      It’s about time we started doing the same thing instead of pussyfooting around putting criminals in Hotel Parkhurst while our pensioners die through lack of food and heating.

      1. Rubbish,

        The threat of ‘terrorism’ must not be used as an excuse to remove people’s human and civil rights.

        You do accept I hope that in Britain (and pretty much everywhere in the world) you are about 1000 times more likely to die in a traffic accident than in a terrorist attack.

        The ‘threat from terror’ has been used since 2001 as an excuse to slowly and steadily remove people’s human and civil rights.

        In the US, citizens can be spied on at will by the government and no longer have the right to a trial if charged with a crime.

        This Abu Hamza sounds like a vile piece of scum.

        But he remains innocent until proven guilty of whatever crimes he is charged with in the US.

        If you discard that presumption of innocence and decide that ‘terrorism’ is justification for becoming a police state, then our society is doomed.

        Remember – traffiic accidents kill more people than terrorism.

        1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 4:14pm

          I never said deny the man his rights, but if he is found responsible for the deaths of innocent people due to his terrorist actions, I would no compunction whatsoever in stringing him up from a jib.

          If he can deny other people their lives, then we can deny his.

        2. It seems to be happening a little often the last week or so, but I agree with dAVID – deportation is great and ensuring that he is held to account in a properly constituted trial is important. Britain has a policy of not deporting people to countries where the death penalty exists unless there are advanced reassurances that the death penalty will not be used. I do not think this case should be an exception to the usual requirements that the UK seek to ensure on extradition cases.

          Good to see the European Court making a good decision!

          1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 10:06pm

            There is a whole difference between hacking websites or offering links to pirate software and those intent on flying planes into buildings or blowing up buses.

            If this man were to commit these atrocities in his own country, we wouldn’t have even heard of it, he would be in an unmarked grave by now. At least we give him the democratic right to a lawyer and a judicial hearing.

          2. @Spanner

            Everything you say may be correct.

            Doesnt mean we should reduce ourselves to the same level as the approach you believe he should receive elsewhere.

            When we lose our sense of justice and fairness – then we lose our humanity. It perculates back through the system and the level of injustice does not go down it rises.

            So, whilst at an emotional level many would not be concerned about how he is treated, the right thing to do with anyone facing trial is to treat them fairly – he wouldnt do the same to us, but that does not mean we should change how we behave for that reason – he would want us to lower our standards – he would claim it as a victory – we retain our moral superiority by treating him/them fairly.

      2. de Villiers 10 Apr 2012, 2:46pm

        I am not sure I agree David. If a terrorist had planted a bomb in London and the only way to know its location would be to torture the terrorist, then torture should be used. Anybody who would refuse to give such an order should hold no office of government.

        Further to that, whilst torture should not ordinarily be permitted I cannot agree that deporting a person to a country which practises torture is the same as torturing them. Our responsibility should be limited to returning safely a foreign terrorist to their country of birth.

        1. Torture in that case would be understandable if it weren’t an agent of the state carrying it out. If the state backs the use of torture then we are no longer a civilised country.

          1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 4:18pm

            It’s still the same thing if you pass the buck down the line. One cannot wash one’s hands of an action when knowingly transferring the job to someone else.

            Otherwise everyone would be going around hiring hitmen and assassins.

            That said, unpalatable though it may be, if people need to be tortured or even killed in order to protect the majority of British people, then so be it.

        2. that argument is stupid im afraid, torture is the least reliable way of getting information.. well thats not entirely true you get info but whether or not its true or just said to make the torture stop is more the problem, the bomb scenario has a massive hole in it which is simply in this case misinformation can be given, say its in a city you torture someone and they tell you that’s its in a completely different place, if you abandon your principles for the sake of potential security then those your supposedly fighting against have already won, remember the point of terrorism is not to kill people, that is just the vehicle by which the aim is achieved, its point is to make people live in fear, to disrupt day to day life of your target as much as possible

          1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 4:20pm

            Then what would you suggest?
            The promise of 72 Virgins?

          2. not sure what you mean by the whole promise thing though i assume your trying to insult me, if not I apologise but that’s how it comes across to me, I only ‘suggest’ 1 thing and that’s not becoming what your fighting against, becoming evil to fight evil doesn’t exactly make things any better, or to put it in simple terms that most people can understand.. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

          3. Spanner1960 11 Apr 2012, 11:03am

            You are obviously unaware that martyred Muslim suicide bombers are promised perfection in heaven along with 72 virgins.

            I’m not trying to insult anybody, but the way I see it, the devil drives as needs must, and we need to extract the information in any way we can. These people will stop at nothing to achieve their aims, so unfortunately we must be the same.

        3. @de Villiers

          In the extreme circumstances you describe it is likely that torture would be seen as justifiable (although undoubtedly there would be later legal consequences and possible enquiries – although hopefully these would consider both the motivation and the outcome – ie lives saved through the information gleaned).

          I do not think there is a comparison in this case where (unless you are aware of something that I am not) there is no clear and present danger to the UK and thus following normal extradition protocols would be appropriate.

        4. de Villiers 10 Apr 2012, 7:12pm

          Kibbles – you have to take an argument at its highest. There is hazard in torturing the wrong person – that is probably the best argument against it. But where it was known that a person posed such a risk, torture would and should be justified. I do not agree that torture can never be used to protect a country.

          I note that it has taken England years to try to deport these individuals whereas following on from the attacks in France last month, the French government has already deported two extremists with three more to follow. All in the space of weeks.

          Something in England is going badly wrong.

    2. The following assurances have been given:-

      “Pursuant to Article IV of the Extradition Treaty Between the Government of the United States and the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Government of the United States hereby assures the Government of the United Kingdom that the United States will neither seek the death penalty against, nor will the death penalty be carried out, against Babar Ahmad upon his extradition to the United States.

      “The Government of the United States further assures the Government of the United Kingdom that upon extradition to the United States, Babar Ahmad will be prosecuted before a Federal Court in accordance with the full panoply of rights and protections that would otherwise be provided to a defendant facing similar charges.”

      There’s a but more but that is the essence.

      1. Keith Farrell 10 Apr 2012, 3:30pm

        Thank you, I agree, although a person who is so full of hate for others and for us gay people does not deserve our sympathy. he is going to get what he deserves and hopefully he will be made to suffer in jail for all the suffering he put innocent people through. Just imagine how that nurse must have felt when she was not allowed to do her work. I don’t agree with a quick and easy death sentence, to me ~If he is guilty, then I would like to see him suffer slowly like so many people have, who have been injured in terrorism.

  5. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 1:19pm

    I sometimes wonder if he’s ever had a near miss wiping his arse.

    1. He’s a Muslim so I doubt he would use his right hand to wipe his bum.

      He’s a lucky bugger really isn’t he

      1. Wiping your arse with your left hand is arabic not islamic etiquette.

        1. http://islamqa.info/en/ref/82120

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WUuHp3Cp8w

          …also he’s Egyptian so

          http://www.todaytranslations.com/doing-business-in/egypt

          In any case I’m pretty sure the left hand is the hand he would wipe his arse with regarless of the hook.

      2. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 4:21pm

        Oh. Personally, I use toilet paper. ;)

          1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 10:02pm

            Comes with a free Labrador puppy.

          2. ;-) lol

  6. Anyone who preaches hate in this country should not be allowed anything from teh public purse as this man and others have been receiving for many years.

    The sooner he and the others are extradited to the US the better.

    1. But only if the US guarantees that he will get a trial and not face the death penalty.

      The so-called threat from terror has been exploited to such a degree that the US is no longer a democracy.

      The fear factor people have about terrorism is one of the most absurd things in the world.

      People are sleepwalking into a situation where human and civil rights are becoming a thing of the past.

      Even though you are many, many times more likely to die in a traffic accident than through terrorism.

      1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 4:22pm

        Keep repeating the same post and eventually everyone will start agreeing with you.

        NOT.

      2. I agree with dAVID but I believe the assurances he seeks have been given.

      3. Tell that to the families and friends of the victims of 9/11. Remember, the lower floor was a school filled with children too. He and his pals should be subjected to the FULL extent of the law IF FOUND GUILTY. Foreign governments have no right to nuture our courts, or state their limitations on us. Why should we agree to spend the $50,000 a year to house this vile human. I, as an American taxpayer, believes this money would be spent better elsewhere. If there are five of them that is a quarter of a million dollars a year to keep them locked up. That’s crap.

  7. Excellent.

  8. Robert in S. Kensington 10 Apr 2012, 1:37pm

    If people like him hate the west so much, why do they come and live in our country? They hate western values, western culture yet they use western technology. I’m glad he’s being extradited, good riddance.

    1. Evangelism – for much the same reason Christian missionaries who loathe equatorial Asia, Africa and America go to there anyway, to convert and also to extract cash.

    2. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 4:26pm

      Do you seriously think he would this kind of treatment in his own country? The man has already cost the British taxpayer close to £4m.

      Hamza sold his former council property for £228,000 while in prison after buying it at a discount under a right-to buy scheme. Meanwhile, his wife and eight children are living in a £550,000 council house and drawing £680 a week in state handouts.

      You tell me why he wants to live here?

  9. Good Riddence

  10. I know it might make me a terrible individual but all I can think of saying is thanks to that picture is… YARG! THERE BE PIRATES!

    But seriously, good riddance.

  11. It’s strange…. or maybe not , how a person cries for help at the Court of Human Rights , but has no feelings for the human rights of those who he has helped to maim and kill!

  12. He can still appeal within 3 months to the supreme chamber of the European court of human rights. So may be a long process to get this lump of filth to see some justice in the States. Incidentally the bbc news were very sympathetic and very favourable in their reporting of one of his cohorts in a U.S. prison, having emotional plea from his family for him to be returned to the UK and how his human rights were not respected in US prison, usual tired old cliches etc. What bubble world are the bbc in?

    1. The bubble that everyone has a right to a fair trial perhaps and cannot just be imprisoned indefinitely on the whim of the US government????

      1. He was imprisoned for his involvement in terrorist plot, hardly a whim by any reasonable persons standards.

    2. @rapture

      Very true. Although my understanding is that few cases are accepted for final appeal to grand chamber (they have 28 days to lodge their application for a grand chamber appeal). Of those cases that are accepted, less than one fifth are successful.

      He has next to zero hope of this decision being overturned.

  13. hate religious preacher
    he is far to ugly to preach love
    all the hate he has is islam

  14. Mystic Clegg 10 Apr 2012, 4:02pm

    Road traffic accidents and terrorism have nothing in common. One is the unfortunate byproduct of millions of journeys a day for the purposes of business, socialising and delivery… and the other is the deliberate destruction of people and property for the sake of hateful religious dogma laid down by a 7th century paedophilic mass murderer.

    I hope Hamza gets the death penalty.

    1. i think drink driving is ‘the deliberate destruction of people and property for the sake of’ taxi fare

    2. The US have already agreed he will not get the death penalty.

      1. Spanner1960 10 Apr 2012, 10:06pm

        Shame.

  15. its nice to see one issue that can unite readers readers of pink news and daily mail. wonderful

  16. George Broadhead 10 Apr 2012, 5:32pm

    “The European Court of Human Rights has said the anti-gay Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri may be extradited to the US on terrorism charges.”

    How many other anti-gay Muslim clerics are there in the UK? Quite a few I would guess.

  17. Janet Lameck 10 Apr 2012, 6:30pm

    Quantanamo Bay for the next 20 years

  18. de Villiers 10 Apr 2012, 7:17pm

    I note that it has taken England years to try to deport these individuals whereas following on from the attacks in France last month, the French government has already deported two extremists with three more to follow. All in the space of weeks.

    Something in England is going badly wrong.

    1. Why does EVERYTHING have to be compared to France and why do you always have to suggest that if something is French it must be better. Is that classic French arrogance emerging?

    2. de Villiers 10 Apr 2012, 9:32pm

      The insufferable constable patrols again.

      1. The arrogant Frenchman continues in his vitriol.

    3. Spanner1960 11 Apr 2012, 10:56am

      If France is so great, and England is getting it all wrong (again) – why are you here instead of there?

      1. Often wonder that about de Villiers

      2. de Villiers 11 Apr 2012, 8:17pm

        Spanner, I live in England, I have an English partner, I have adopted an English son. What does that tell you about how I think of England?

        1. Spanner1960 12 Apr 2012, 2:50pm

          To paraphrase a quote:
          “Something in England is going badly wrong.”

    4. de Villiers 11 Apr 2012, 8:18pm

      Spanner, I live in England, I have an English partner, I have adopted an English son. What does that tell you about how I think of England ?

  19. GingerlyColors 11 Apr 2012, 6:52am

    Abu Hamza and his cronies have been violating not just the rights of LGBT people but the rights of every decent, man, woman and child in these islands. Yet he has the audacity to go to the European Court of Human Rights to bleat about his rights when for the past decade we have been letting that man live on benefits and return our generousity with hatred. As for his injuries which he said were caused by a landmine, was he doing handstands in a minefield?

  20. USA demands someone be extradited
    They get what they want.

    Dog bites man, more at 11.

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