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Attitude’s eighteenth birthday issue calls for equal marriage

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  1. The Church has a history of not wanting equal rights with objecting to the abolition of slavery. It amazes me that after all this time people still listen to these bigots trying to use religion to promote negativity.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Apr 2012, 1:36pm

      Not to mention their loudspeakers, The Telegraph and Daily Mail.

  2. is it really 18 years since attitude came out? remember buying first copy in smiths with my head of year stood behind me and being terrified he’d see what i was buying!

    1. I remember buying it for my friend who was too afraid to do so himself. The man behind the counter looked at me and said, “You know this is for men dont you?” and then he whispered conspiratorily, “Gay men!”. I said “Yes I know… he’s hiding outside”

      1. Spanner1960 2 Apr 2012, 3:20pm

        I thought for a long time that Attitude was just another ‘men’s mag’ along the line of GQ etc, because it didn’t make itself obviously gay at the time like, say, Gay Times, (which oddly enough has actually backed off a bit and is just now known as ‘GT’.)

  3. Well done to Attitude for publishing this

  4. It’s a good story and a valid point. And important to repeat that the spreading animus against LGBT people, mostly hailing from the pulpit, is causing a lot of harm. In contrast, no one can prove that marriage equality harms anyone.

  5. Craig Denney 2 Apr 2012, 2:29pm

    Religion has a big grip on the Armed Forces, I remember being forced to go to Church Parade or be on a Charge and do you know the armed forces currently employs 280 Christian chaplains and they get paid twice the amount a soldier gets paid at £37,172 rising to £55,857 after 15 years service and if you include the other 280 chaplains, it comes to £22 million annually.

    Why has the Armed forces not changed with the times, why do they still employ religious homophobes to care for our armed forces who are suffering in the theatre of war?

    1. Remember that our Armed Forces swear an oath to The Crown, not the country. As long as the Monarch is also Head of the CoE that relationship is going to continue.

      I’m hoping one of the national papers picks up on Attitude’s article and reprints it. Reminding everyone in the wider population just how much a part of British everyday life gay couples are will do a lot to ensure the religious bigots appear even further out of touch with regards to marriage equality. Whilst the Churches try to point out how much a danger to society they think of us as, all we need to show is that we are really just the couple next door. Nothing special, nothing really out of the ordinary. I think this article does that.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Apr 2012, 2:53pm

        It surprises me that there is no national mood to disestablish the state religion once and for all as well as replace the House of Lords with an elected body, religious clerics excluded of course.

        None of the religious denominations can produce one shred of factual evidence to support their outrageously offencive claims. I wonder why none of the ten countries that allow equal civil marriage have not come forward with any evidence supporting their assertions?

    2. casparthegood 8 Apr 2012, 9:58pm

      Even tho I am a fully paid up heathen speaking as an ex soldier I can honestly say that the Padre is generally well regarded and seen as a usefull member of any unit.They tend in my experience to be more interested in the troops welfare than their “souls” anyway.Incidentally it is and has been for a long time been agains regs to force anyone to worship.. Attend a parade yes church no!

  6. TheLizzie12 2 Apr 2012, 3:02pm

    Congratulations Attitude! Eighteen years ago it came as a breathe of fresh air when Gay Times bored me senseless with its endless features about Sir Ian McKellen, Boy George and Kylie! Here’s to another eighteen years!

  7. christopher 2 Apr 2012, 3:11pm

    It is a tricky topic, but i believe if someone wants to get married and had fought for their country, they have earned that right. Honor them in at least letting them be happy, even if its for a short time. Its an all or nothing thing. we place too much value on the things one does in the bedroom, instead of seeing value of each person.

    We need to embrace equality of all men and women, regardless of their bedroom habits. Only then will we be able to unite as one people, and save our selves from our selves, If we cannot pull together, it is all for naught.

  8. Hey cool, it’s my birthday too! :)

  9. Happy birthday to Attitude, I remember standing in WHSmiths plucking up the courage to buy my first copy then hiding it from my mother!

    1. My first copy was from WHSmiths as well after finishing college early in the afternoon – a time when there was a lull in the shop. It was the one with Kavana on the cover (1998 I think) and I had to wait until there was no queue!

  10. Mr Wharton does not speak for or on behalf of the rest of the LGBT community within the Armed Forces including myself. He is supposed to be a professional soldier and had no authorisation form the Armed Forces to appear in uniform or make any political statements.
    The Army has unfortunately created a monster it cannot control, whilst the sentiment is good the people behind the scenes on the Armed Forces LGBT committee are the ones who do the hard work. 12 months of which has very probably been destroyed.
    We are supposed to work as a team not glory hunt by trying to get their faces in publications.
    A very poor judgement by a very poor JNCO

    1. I think that it is clear that Lcpl Wharton is not speaking on behalf of other LGBT personel within the British Army, more on his own behalf and he riases a good point!

      How do you know he has not received permission from his superiors to appear in uniform?

      I personally think it is a good judgement from a brave NCO (and yes I do know what the abbreviation means)

      1. Craig Denney 2 Apr 2012, 5:21pm


        First you have the people who attend the meetings and they tell the MOD how it is. Then you have the monsters on the outside firing off loose shells and it’s a kind of symbiotic relationship.

        You need Lcpl Wharton as a loose cannon to put pressure the MOD to force change.

        1. N you don’t a soldier should never be a loose canon. If a straight soldier had got his face in a publication in uniform without permission they would have been hung, drawn and quartered over it.
          The same should be done to this individual.

      2. How do I know? Take it as read he had absolutely no authorisation. What he has done isn’t brave at all, it’s more on a par with glory hunting.
        As I have mentioned he is a JCNO and has completely disregarded regulations and rules that govern the Armed Forces and its personnel. If a soldier feels they cannot follow rules and regulations they should hand in their uniform and become a civilian. He’s done more damage to the LGBT in the Armed Forces community than good.

        1. How has he done any harm to the army? Have you read the article? He praises the army. They sound very supportive. It’s about religious types not the army.This sounds a bit like sour grapes to me!!

          1. Craig Smith 19 Jul 2013, 6:29pm

            look at the latest Wharton story about crying to Prince Harry as he thought his colleagues were going to kill him…. Still think the same Simon?

        2. Craig Denney 2 Apr 2012, 5:31pm

          If he has broken the rules then put him on a charge! Send him to the glasshouse, he’ll soon leave then.

    2. Gaz, I know the army has very strict rules but do you realise how nasty you are about him. You say he’s a Monster. He should be hung, drawn and quartered. He’s a glory hunter. He has poor judgement. He’s a loose canon. He isn’t brave. And you think he should resign. You sound very emotional about him. Why? Sounds like you have some issues. Chill out. I’m sure if he’s broken the rules then he will be reprimanded.

      1. I suspect that Lcpl Wharton would have had authorisation to do the feature otherwise he would not have risked the wrath of his superiors. I suspecting some serious sour grapes from Gaz and I am sure there there will be many more LGBT members of the forces who share Lcpl Whartons thoughts!

        1. He has not had authorisation.. that is fact, he has risked the wrath of superiors. As I stated the sentiments of the article are fine. But to have worn his uniform without authorisation (again which he did not get) in a national/international publication goes against the professionalism of a soldier. He has made the entire LGBT community of the forces look untrustworthy to our hierarchy and he has undone a lot of hard work the guys behind the scenes do. Call it sour grapes, my feelings are the same as those (military) I’ve spoken to.
          What he’s done is completely unprofessional and not the actions of what would be considered a professional JNCO within Her Majesty’s Armed Forces.

          1. Is this Wharton (haven’t seen the magazine yet), the chap who was on the cover of Soldier magazine in 2009 to mark 10 years of gay people being allowed to serve openly in the military? The one who was lent the officers’ mess of his regiment for the reception after his CP? If he hasn’t had permission to be photographed in uniform I’d be very surprised.

          2. What proof do you have of this fact of which you refer?

          3. Don’t be such a victim!! He hasnt undermined anything. He’s just one person. Doesnt reflect on anyone but him. You should be praising him. He’s made the army look great!

      2. Well said, James E! Issues is the word.

        Gaz, you’re just piping up because you wish it was you doing something so inspirational. Deal with it in a more humble way.

  11. I think the picture on the cover of Attitude says it all! How could you possibly deny these two beautiful people the right to marry! Religion is shooting itself in the foot over this issue, and will no doubt limp on once again, just has it has done in the past! But Lance corporal Wharton is right, we don’t need a debate over this issue just to let the church and the far right pour scorn over us! Put the legislation before the house now and be done with it. 2015 is NOT an option!

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 2 Apr 2012, 8:33pm

      The questions that nobody ever puts to the foes of equal marriage are these. The people involved with C4M and their allies believe that CPs are equal to marriage. If that is the case, then why wouldn’t they enter into one if they were available and if not, why not? Or better yet, what if hypothetically speaking, CPs replaced civil marriage, would any of them especially divorced people be content to have one since they’re legally not marriages?

  12. OMG 18 years!!! I remember getting my first copy from WH Smiths too and I read it from cover to cover! It was amazing at the time and new and fresh! I then had to get it every month for the next few years or so. Sadly i had to recycle my old copies when I settled down with my boyf as I had them stashed in a box and he thought I was sad keeping them!

  13. This is why Attitude > GT, for me!

  14. Gay activist Paul Mitchell 3 Apr 2012, 12:53pm

    They make a hot and cute couple. Can I have a hot and cute military man as my boyfriend, civil partner or husband?

    I respect the military (Australia, United States and/or the United Kingdom), they provide employment to thousands of people everyday. I do not agree with war, but unfortently you have to do what you are told! No ifs and no buts about it.

    Why are we in Afganistain in the first place? we’re every single day innocent women and children are killed. These are the real victims that is costing trillions of dollars over 10 to 20 years of no progress at all. However there is room for improvement, for example we need to stamp out all sexual and/or emotional abuse that still occurs within all armys, hazing and other practices such as here in Australia were a bigot within the army posted the names of gay men on a Facebook hate page and the abuse of women within the army, the culture of misogyny and the Skype incident just illustrates my point just here in Australia over the years.

  15. I can’t stomach this kind of militarist jingoism and would prefer gay rights not to be associated with it.

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