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Christian group pledge support for gay couples marrying

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  1. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 1:40pm

    “Archbishop Sentamu is the favourite to succeed Rowan Williams as Archbishop of Canterbury.”

    He’s not my favourite, it would be an unwise and divisive choice. The best choice would be a wise academic female, to show the wets they have nothing to fear from female bishops. Have you noticed there are no women on the list despite women bishops being allowed now? Time for the government to make a stand for compassionate gay-friendly female clergy.

    1. Perhaps they should draft Victoria Matthews from Christchurch New Zealand. She is a theological conservative and social moderate, with experience in two different countries, as she was bishop of Edmonton Alberta Canada from 1997 to 2007.

      1. As fine a Primate as Bishop Matthews would certainly make – it will be two more years at least until women can be ordained bishiops within the C of E.

        Also Sentamu is far too old to succeed as Archbishop of Canterbury.

        1. Father Dougal 28 Mar 2012, 7:28pm

          I see no reason why Mr. Cameron couldn’t simply appoint one immediately, or rather, the Queen on his ‘advice’. She’s the Queen, it’s her authority.

      2. Bishop Matthews is a woman of integrity and honour. Her leadership after the Christchurch earthquake was clear, including a dynamic stance against those exreme evangelicals from the US who sought to blame the quake on LGBT people’s sins. She would be a bold and brave choice (particularly as she is female) but also probably a strong and honest choice.

        Sentamu may be favourite but usually favourites do not succeed to be Archbishop of Canterbury. He also would be extremely divisive.

    2. Was there not discussion recently in the General Synod, arguing that Archbishops should also be considered from the wider Anglican community and not just UK bishops.

      1. Well Archbishop Williams was from the Church in Wales, and is still a hotbed of liberalism, I personally would really like to see the Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church succeed as Archbishop.

  2. Dennis Battler 28 Mar 2012, 1:47pm

    Archbishop Sentamu would be appropriate – a glaring admission of church doctrine’s link with voodoo … in its use of words used as barbs and projectiles to shape thought antithetical to actual truth.

    1. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 2:00pm

      He would certainly be a nail in the coffin of the church, if that is your wish. But if we are going to have a foreigner as Archbp of Canterbury, I’d rather we had an American episcopalian than a Ugandan, or best of best would be to bring Archbp Tutu of South Africa out of retirement, he is a tireless supporter of gay rights.

      1. Keith Farrell 28 Mar 2012, 9:40pm

        With Uganda’s treatment of gay people, I would be very scared of the Anglican church if Sentamu ever became Archbishop of Canterbury, that will be the church dies.
        I for one cannot understand the condemnation of gay people and us getting our human rights by the church. I do hope that the world steps forward and not as I am beining to fear backwards into the middle ages

  3. Paul, a sexist bigot, wrote Corinthians, which is where the ‘homosexual offenders won’t inherit the kingdom of God’ verse is.

    Some translations say ‘effeminate’ instead of homosexual, which is a different thing entirely!

    Gay people need to feel confident when they call any Christian opposition to same-sex marriage bigoted homophobia. The Bible just isn’t clear about it, so it’s the individual’s own opinion that you’re hearing. And it’s ignorance that informs their opinion.

    1. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 2:04pm

      I think only some dodgy modern American evangelical “translations” use the word “homosexual”, as a circular way to justify their own prejudice.

      1. Certainly the original Hebrew does uses a word which suggests effeminate rather than homosexual.

    2. Hodge Podge 28 Mar 2012, 2:37pm

      Nothing wrong with being “effeminate” either!

    3. didn’t jesus say that the kingdom of God belongs to the persecuted?

  4. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 1:55pm

    I would also like to see some heavyweight theologians come out on our side, showing up the shallow prejudice of our opponents for what it is.

    1. There are plenty of heavyweight theologians on our side. Too many to name. In fact, I think that you would find that most academic theologians from top universities are pro-gay.

  5. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Mar 2012, 2:05pm

    Good news indeed. Good people like this are weakening the religious opposition’s position by the day. Long may that continue. Let’s hope more of them become more vocal in support of us as the equal civil marriage debate continues.

  6. Progressive Christianity Network sounds like an accurate name, it’s good to see that there are some progressive religious groups out there. The others could learn some lessons from Reverend Churcher and the PCN… if only they’d actually listen.

    1. It’s not the groups themselves that are the problem (with the possible exception of Catholicism) but the leaders of the groups. Most members of the CofE for instance are either for marriage equality or have no view on the subject either way, it is only a small minority of the higher up people in the CofE that tarnishes peoples’ opinions of it. Unfortunately, they seem to be the loudest…

      1. Tim Hopkins 28 Mar 2012, 4:37pm

        True for Catholics also: the Scottish Social Attitudes survey showed more than 50% of Catholics here support equal marriage and only 25% oppose it. It’s the hierarchy that makes the noise though.

        1. Keith Farrell 28 Mar 2012, 9:43pm

          Empty barrels make the most noise, well in this case it is empty minds, because the Cathlic church is led by morons. (note if he can refer to us the way he does, then I will call him a moron

  7. Bishop Spong has written convincingly on the hypothesis that Paul was a gay male. That he was a tremendously conflicted and guilt ridden individual – not surprising given the homophobic climate of the Jewish community – is quite clear in his writings. He says in (gal. 4:13) that he is the possessor of a condition that he believes is incurable. Before his conversion He claims his condition was beyond his power to change. “If my mind wills one thing and my body responds another way..”
    But after his conversion he claims that Christ had reconciled him to God , that God had declared him righteous.
    Because this Christ loves him, he can now love himself. He does not have to become righteous by keeping the (Jewish) law that condemns him.

    Spong’s interpretation sounds a lot more convincing than certain fundie suggestions… Ie that Paul had a problem with his eyesight or some other trivial ailment!

    So Sentamu can stick that in his incense burner and smoke it… He is just another homophobe

    1. Isn’t he thought to have had epilepsy too? I don’t know if that’s the same bit you’re referring to, but I’ve read that that was the cause of his miraculous ‘seeing the light’ I think someone suggested it was temporal lobe epilepsy but I might have remembered that wrong.

      Bishop Spong’s theory sounds very interesting!

      1. Yes I’ve read that explanation (epilepsy) for his vision on the road to Damascus also. Michael Persinger’s book “The Neuroosychological Bases for God Beliefs” refers to transient epileptic episodes as an explanation for the religious impulse.

  8. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 2:13pm

    Some people take Adam and Eve rather presumptuously as evidence that God did not intend some people to be gay or to marry eachother if they fell in love.

    However, it does not take enormous intellect to realise that Adam in fact reproduced asexually, cloning Eve from a part of his own body, then had children with her (without getting married), and then those children can only have reproduced incestuously if they were the only people in the world.

    None of this bodes well for an argument against equal marriage.

    1. Darth Dacre 28 Mar 2012, 2:33pm

      Omg, so fundamentalists believe we are all descended from a man made from clay, and a clone, and incestuous offspring! And all about 5000 years ago. I think there must have been some more cloning going on for the world to reach it’s current population.

    2. If only the Fundamentalist could stop being in denial over the fundamental features of their beliefs, as ASY so eloquently highlights, namely and curiously. . . . cloning and incest.

    3. Well there are 2 genesis stories in the Bible… In one Eve is a clone, in the other genesis story man and woman are created coequally…. Of course the fundies only pay attention to the rib story… Hypocrites that they are… But of course sexism and homophobia go hand in hand.

      1. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 3:15pm

        Good heavens, a contradiction in the bible. That’s what happens when you have 40 authors.

        1. Keith Farrell 28 Mar 2012, 9:47pm

          It get even worse when it is writtern some years later and large parts in another language. Then to spice it up the add in fairy tales from other religions and call it the truth

    4. Dave North 28 Mar 2012, 3:11pm

      If it had been Adam and Steve they would not have wasted time incestuously breading like rabbits, they would just have given the Garden of Eden a fabulous makeover.

      1. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 3:19pm

        No fall from grace either, just happy ever after forever. Which was supposedly the real plan. The human race was the result of an incestuous fall from grace. Obviously the mistake was allowing for sexual reproduction and not just sticking to cloning.

    5. One thing I’ve always wondered on this score…why are Adam and Eve always shown to possess belly buttons, which are essentially a scar left over by womb gestation? Surely even Creationists must be able to spot the problem there.

      1. True enough. Also does Adam have a scar where he extracted the rib for the cloning procedure?

    6. If they had got married, who would have officiated I wonder. And would he have said “I now pronounce you man and clone”.

  9. Jock S. Trap 28 Mar 2012, 2:13pm

    Always good to see progressive religions coming out and making a favourable stand for Marriage Equality.

  10. Maybe Reverend Churcher should be AofC? For once a member froma religious group who has stated that the RC & CoE are cherry picking verses from the bible and interpreting the text because of their own prejudices.

    I also love his quote “Being gay is not an illness to be cured but a natural biological orientation. The sexual sin is infidelity, not homosexuality. Marriage should be a loving relationship between two consenting adults, so why continue to deprive many within and beyond our churches from the God-given blessings of marriage?”

    In your face Pope Hate & Archbishops Trimyoureyebrows & Gaptooth

    1. Mmmmmmm….mmmm….mmm!!! (apoplectic explosion)

    2. Robert in S. Kensington 28 Mar 2012, 5:01pm

      Quite! And a slap in the face of C4M hatemongers too!

  11. Archbp Susannah York 28 Mar 2012, 3:02pm

    It’s a bit of a side issue, but while the “Chistian Institute” are opposed to s.5 of the Public Order Act for it’s chilling effect on free speech (in particular evangelism), they also appear to be in favour of blasphemy laws, for reasons that directly contradict many of their claimed reasons for being opposed to s.5 of the POA.

    I suppose consistency would be too much to expect.

    1. Well, if the CI don’t understand accountability and integrity – how can we expect them to be able to grasp with consistency?

      ;-)

  12. Why does Pink News not do stories about whether the British Stamp Collectors Society support marriage equality.

    We all know that civil marriage equality has NOTHING to do with religious cults.

    So why ONLY report on religious cults attitudees towards equality.

    Their opinions are no more important or relevant than any other social club.

    I suppose it is because the British Stamp Collectors do not continually try to pervert our secular democracy by imposing their bigotry on the entire population.

    1. Jock S. Trap 28 Mar 2012, 5:23pm

      Because Religion is our biggest problem with regard marriage equality. Wouldn’t ignoring that be wrong when we need to hear it. We need to know the facts. Who supports and who doesn’t. Where possible we need to educate. I would be ignorant to ignore those that stand in our way just as it would for those that support.

    2. Oh I don’t know, stamp collectors are a dangerous bunch of fanatics, hoarding stamps and never using them.

    3. GingerlyColors 29 Mar 2012, 6:26am

      Alan Turing is celebrated on one of a set of stamps celebrating Britons of Distinction, issued by Royal Mail on 23 February, 2012.

  13. GingerlyColors 28 Mar 2012, 4:43pm

    You will probably find that most Christians do not need feeding to the lions.

    1. Was that just a random thought?

  14. Staircase2 28 Mar 2012, 6:02pm

    Bless ya(s)! Well said, PCN!

  15. All magical tosh, of course, but their hearts are in the right place. The real point is that they should give the God-bothering homophobes a headache. Let’s hope so.

  16. Father Dougal 28 Mar 2012, 8:13pm

    Should we get a quote from the new UK-Vatican media spin group Homophobic Voices?

  17. Some great words of support from Reverend John Churche! Thank you sir :)

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