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Conscripts to Turkish army must ‘prove’ they’re gay for exemption from military service

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  1. Shockingly backwards.

  2. Heterosexual males at their nastiest

  3. Mumbo Jumbo 26 Mar 2012, 1:13pm

    Here is the original more detailed article on the BBC website:

    http://goo.gl/VuJzM

  4. And they want to be part of the E.U.

  5. Mr Kuloglu ought to realise his soldiers ALREADY shower, sleep and train in the presence of gay soldiers! They just haven’t come out for fear if reprisals- but believe me Mr Kuloglu- your men are mixing with them NOW- every single day!

  6. I would love to know what disciplinary problems would occur and why seperate facilities would be required. Oh yes, it is the mistaken belief that gay men want sex with all men!

    I wonder too if the commanders who insist on seeing photo evidence secretly ‘get off’ on the images produced?

    I feel for the LGBT folk in Turkey and surely this is more reason not to allow the country EU membership

    1. Lynda Yilmaz 26 Mar 2012, 2:14pm

      Unfortunately, I believe that the discipline problems would be trying to prevent the other soldiers from abusing their gay colleagues. I live in Turkey and am married to a Turkish man and I know only too well the general attitudes towards gay men in Turkey. Fortunately my husband having lived in London with me AND my gay son, is a gay champion where we live and does his best to enlighten and educate people we know. It’s a big struggle. Turkey is a secular country, but it is predominately muslim and the culture and societal attitudes are steeped in Islamic anti homoxexual attitudes. Someone here once told me, with the greatest of sincerity that there were no gay men in Turkey, but two out of every three Greeks were gay and everyone knew it! They’ve got a long way to go.

      1. I do think that this discipline issues can be used a smokescreen to hide behind sometimes, but I guess we will never know.

        I applaud you and your husband for trying to make a difference and I can only imagine how much abuse you may get because of it? Keep up the good work over there and thank you for supporting the gay community at large!

      2. Staircase2 26 Mar 2012, 4:40pm

        The fact that its a predominantly Muslim country is not the sole issue – homophobia seeks to find excuses for its own ill behaviour.

        The country has long been predominantly Muslim – and yet it was common place in the past for men to have gay sex.

        Its homophobic because the PEOPLE are homophobic – who then use Islam as an EXCUSE for their ignorant behaviour.

        If they want to join the EU then they have to clean up their act – it’s simple

        1. Spanner1960 28 Mar 2012, 8:02pm

          There’s an old Arab saying. Have sex with a woman for offspring,a goat for relief and a boy for pleasure…

          You tell me they are the civilised ones.

  7. “Turkey’s military hospitals still define homosexuality as an illness, as defined in a 1968 version of a document by the American Psychiatric Association.”

    44 years and they haven’t renewed their subscription? The only thing that is missing from this dehumanizing debacle is a pink triangle! Clearly Turkey needs to fast forward to the present!

    1. With this draconian mentality they are replicating the same implications as the American forces did with DADT! There will be many Turkish men who serve in secret, unfortunately there will be others whether by discovery or forced to accept discharges. Though not dishonoring their country will be despicably dishonored by their country.

    2. Lynda Yilmaz 26 Mar 2012, 2:16pm

      Turkey’s GOVERNMENT still define homosexuality as an illness. The (female) Minister for Women and Family recently publicly announced that it was an illness that needed a cure.

  8. Robert in S. Kensington 26 Mar 2012, 1:58pm

    Another reason to block Turkey’s entry into the EU, more than ever.

  9. Military service is compulsory in Turkey and if the law says gays are not allowed in the army then they should tell their commanders that they are gay and if the commanders will ask for the proof you simply inform them that you cannot prove it, then the decision is theirs to be made. Unless you deliberately want to use your homosexuality to opt out from the army service then it is up to you to provide the proof they ask for.
    And for the ones who are quick of the mark to call Turkey backward, lets not forget that only few years ago you wouldn’t be allowed to serve in American Military if you were gay.

    1. Reubs Walsh 26 Mar 2012, 2:14pm

      Based on the frequent references to EU membership, I’d guess these aren’t all Americans commenting, and just because the US does it doesn’t mean it isn’t backward!
      Personally I think conscription is the ethical problem to tackle first, though obviously the treatment of gays by the Turkish military is awful.

    2. Lynda Yilmaz 26 Mar 2012, 2:17pm

      And England Hasan.

      1. Indeed Lynda, but attitude towards gays in Turkey is much better then in the rest of Muslim world (cannot think of any other country without statue law against homosexuality, and is similar to the one you get in Russia and other Eastern Europeans outside EU

    3. While your points are valid Hasan, military service isnot compulsory in either the UK of USA. Compulsory service was abolished in the UK in 1960.

      No one should be forced into the army, whether they are gay or not! There are plenty of straight men and women who are forced into national service against their will.

      As a someone who is against war and violence I would not want to go into the army. My sexuality would be second to that!

      1. I’m not defending obligatory Military Service, btw Isreal has one too that incl. women

        1. David Waite 26 Mar 2012, 3:56pm

          Just what ARE you defending then? Are you defending cultural Islamic homophobia? You appear not to be, since you laud Turkey for being more enlightened than other Islamic countries. In any case, your complaint really seems to be that Pink News commenters are being mean to Turkey while ignoring their own recent past. That is a weak, whining (whinging, for you English speakers) argument to make.
          There is nothing positive or honorable about Turkey’s treatment of part of its citizenry, particularly in light of Turkey’s and Islam’s historical celebration (not just tolerance) of homosexual love. I suggest you read up on that history before complaining. Historians know the RCC is lying when it claims it never sanctioned or officiated same sex weddings. Historians know modern Islamicists are lying when they claim a quranic prohibition as the basis of homophobia in Islam. Homophobia in every culture stems entirely from a determination by authoritarian types, to control ordinary people.

        2. Evidently you specialise in patronising comments

  10. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 2:51pm

    What an absolute disgrace… in the 21st Century this is bad. The damage this causes is both despicable and inhumane.

    I remember going to Turkey many years ago and most of the army blokes I meant were up for it so I really don’t see why the blatant discrimination.

    As for separate showers etc…. hello what planet are his bigoted creep on. It’s this typical stereotype that all men have sex with all men isn’t it…. you know the very same stereotype the Churches here wish to keep to stop Us getting married.

  11. Bizarre! I think they military officials requiring documentation are secretly getting off on the pics. Just think, the U.S. military was just as bad a few months ago until DADT was ended. Are we living in 2012 or 1943?

  12. I think that LGBT Turks should celebrate the fact that they are barred from military service.

    I was appallled that gay Americans were so happy to be allowed join the US Army.

    We need to remember that while it is very unfair to bar people for membership simply for being gay, it does not alter the fact that the US Army, the Turkish Army, the British Army, the Chinese Army etc etc are forces of enormous evil, destruction and murder.

    Being a soldier is something to be deeply ashamed of.

    In Turkey at least they have the excuse that it is compulsory.

    Anyone who volunteers to join an army is a fool, with very little regard for human life however.

    1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 3:59pm

      Without our Soldiers our world would very different.

      Without our Soldiers Hitler would have conquered and the laws on Homosexuality would be very different than it is today.

      Without our soldiers we may already be heading for a Muslim state and where does that leave our laws regarding homosexuality.

      Having soldiers may not be ideal but they are there to protect us and protect our values. Without them we may still be imprisoned or even hung for being ourselves.

      Maybe you should think about the valuable work they do rather than bashing them. Keeping you in the life of freedoms you enjoy and want. Keeping you with the right to make such comments on a Gay website, openly. Have you ever thought what being a soldier does, entails?

      If you don’t want freedoms of course, move to a country where the population has none but I’m betting that the majority of us respect every soldier that helps protect our freedoms to be who were are and respectfully so.
      -

      1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 4:00pm

        Our troops are hero’s who defend our why of life and our freedoms. They each deserve our respect esp for doing a job the mjority of us couldn’t do.

  13. Psychiatry is a fake and a money making sham and to see them still using this in Turkey is a joke, but a real joke that needs to be stopped from happening. The American Psychiatric Association needs to go to Turkey and get them to no longer use that information about gays today and clean up the mess they started in America by saying gays have a mental problems. After they do that they need to clean up the mess they made with Christians using psychiatry on LGBT people to “make them straight” with their ex gay “treatments” using psychiatry and psychology. Everybody knows that it does not work and does harm to people they do it on.

    1. Rudehamster 26 Mar 2012, 11:31pm

      I disagree with your blanket suggestion that psychiatry, in general, is a scam. I think that’s so easy to prove otherwise. It is subjective and open to interpretation though, so I’ll give you that.

      I do agree with your point about the APA, and the religious biase being harmful.

  14. Staircase2 26 Mar 2012, 4:36pm

    The bloody idiots…!

  15. How bizarre. How on earth do they expect to find the Gays?

    In my experiences – of any Friday or Saturday night in Leeds – most straight men aren’t bothered who sucks them off – most them aren’t gay or bi – but actively seek sex with other men?

    Men are just a mystery to me…a mystery I shall continue to explore…in the interests of human research – you understand?

    1. From reading the more detailed BBC article however, it appear that the Turkish military requires photos of you taking it up the arse, as opposed to any other activity, so if you’re a top then you may have to prepare your kit bag.

  16. We like Turkey a lot.

    1. Rudehamster 26 Mar 2012, 11:27pm

      I find it very dry. I like the sprouts and stuffing though.

    2. So much so that you end up sounding like one, Aiden? Bless.

  17. I can understand how difficult it must have been. I was born in South Korea and therefore was subject to compulsory military service too.

    I didn’t “declare” my sexual orientation when I first had the physical examination when I was 18, but I did a couple of years ago, to see if I can get myself exempt.

    I had to go see a psychiatrist and had to take multiple psychological tests before I was able to be re-examined first of all. I brought tons of evidence, such as my civil partnership certificate, letters, pictures (though not sexual), etc with me. I was then given a “Personality and Behavioural Disorder (Sexual Preference Disorder) – GRADE 3″ which wasn’t enough to be exempt.

    Given that gay sex is punishable by up to 3 years in prison according to the military penal code and anecdotes I heard of fellow gay people suffering during military service, I continued refusing conscription. This is still affecting me even after I naturalised as a British Citizen…

    1. Thanks for sharing, Whan.

      I hope it gets better for you.

  18. Rudehamster 26 Mar 2012, 11:25pm

    On an entirely flippant plane, can I have a few hours of access to the video evidence? I’ll clean up afterwards, honest.

    *hides tissues behind back*

  19. I am willing to volunteer to screen any of the young Turkish men who are homosexual and in uniform! lol

  20. Good way to avoid the national draft.

    Probably all Turkish young men will say they are gay just to get out of serving time in the military.

    Wouldn’t do Turkey any good by doing this.

    1. Chris Steele 1 Apr 2012, 8:17pm

      remember though rad that they have to PROOVE it, just saying they are gay to get out of service won’t work!

  21. It just goes to show that the lesser races cannot be trusted. Why is anyone surprised by this?

  22. Well the fact that one would want to avoid going to the army because they’re gay defeats the purpose of all the struggles and fights we give for equality. Though the fact that they have to “prove” that they’re gay is beyond idiotic, I still think if someone went through all the struggle to prove that they’re gay by providing pictures of intimacy then they should’t worry if someone would out them as gay. I’m still baffled by the whole story. I mean I’m gay, I hated being in the army for two years but I guess I saw it as something I had to do and did it.

  23. Chris Steele 1 Apr 2012, 8:15pm

    I don’t know if I should like this or be disturbed by it. On one hand it potentially means straight men would purposely engage in gay sex for exemption (hot). On the other hand it means gays have to hand over explicit material I give this a sideways thumbs.

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