“She feels like a real girl and she is a real girl. She didn’t expect people to question it,” Mr Davila said in a statement.”
But they threw her out anyway? So… somehow they aren’t discriminating but they can’t let her in because of her transgender status? That makes perfect sense… not!
She’s a bloke in a wig, for heaven’s sake! What’s wrong with you? It’s for pantomime!
There are a number of highly insensitive and transphobic responses. You should be ashamed if yourselves! Such bigotry has no place in our community!
Why don’t you take your bigoted archaic views somewhere else. And don’t talk about something you obviously know nothing about.
Yes John. Anything you say, John.
Your a bigot in a Gay News Site…. seems judging people is all you can do. What part of that makes you think you attitude improves humanity?
You obviously haven’t seen a picture of her; she’s very beautiful. Enough to give even a troll like you a woody.
‘… It’s for pantomime!..’
the whole fecking miss universe is pantomime and travesty of reality
shame on them. Unfortunately our trans communites are about 10 years behind gays re equal rights.
the gay community helping trans people will help the gay community move forward faster.
Each helps the other.
Entering a meat market (which is what a beauty pageant is)does nothing for women’s rights or trans rights.
It simply reduces contestants to how good they look in a swimsuit.
Why she wanted to even enter such a misogynistic competition is beyond me.
Why she wanted to enter the competition is unimportant, a lot of people do things I see as stupid, but I will fight for their right to do it still.
Contestants must be a “naturally born female”? It doesn’t matter how much silicone they’ve had implanted in their bodies, how much cosmetic surgery they’ve had, how much makeup they wear or how far they’ve deviated from their natural hair color. But they’re disqualified if they didn’t have a vajayjay fresh off the assembly line. That’s pretty arbitrary.
You have nailed it :)
Your comment is ambiguous.
Unfair and disgraceful.
Why are bigots so decisive?
Because it’s MISS Universe, not Mr. Universe.
And I’m sure if you looked on her drivers license, you’d see “Miss Jenna Talackova”.
I agree, let her try for Miss Trans” Universe!!
Maybe we should be a little more judgemental and a little more supportive of equality.
And Jenna is a woman so whats your point other than to be transphobic?
lol the answer lies in many of your posts on many previous subjects…lol
…So, Jock! Why ARE bigots so decisive then…?
Good! The pageant is for women, not men pretending to be women.
And she’s not a real girl. If I got fangs and cat tattoos, I’m still a human and not a cat,
We want to be accepted as “normal” but why is it some gay or trans people seem to do their best to make us look “ab”normal, sometimes I think, “If I was straight i´d be homophobic!” Can´t people just get on with their lives??
Wow, such hate and judgement. Not good and certainly not pretty.
Let and let live. Rid the world of prejudice and maybe you can expect to be treated the same.
Life would be boring if we were all the same. Except people for who they are and maybe they might show you some respect in return.
Discrimination makes you so ugly as a person. Aren’t you better than that? Maybe a little less divisive and more supportive of people and the world would become a happier place.
Go away Lumi Bast.
You’re a waste of space.
Oh shut up you narrow minded stupid woman. What the matter
Scared this WOMAN is better looking than you. Now that can’t be too hard. As you are stone cold ugly from the head down to yours toes
ladytanya, not very ladylike.
Misogyny to fight transphobia, not cool
Whilst I disagree witth everything that Lumi Bast has ever uttered on here, it is her right to be able to say those things (unless she does so to try and incite violence or hatred towards us). Unfortunately she is misguided and needs to read a few articles on the etiology of transsexualism and how it deeply affects people. Why she cannot simply live and let live is beyond me – perhaps she was married at one point to one of us and feels deeply betrayed by the experience, who knows as she has never explained her hatred towards us. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us Ms. Bast so that we can try and understands where you are coming from.
However, I do not think it is fitting that we should start trying to belittle her by questioning her looks, she could be stunningly beautiful for all we know.
Weren’t you saying to Keith on another thread that we didn’t choose to be gay so you shouldn’t discriminate against us, yet here you are in all your hypocritical glory!!
Practice what you preach or expect to get discriminated against your choice.
In an interesting coincidence, yesterday the streets around the new Trump tower in Toronto were closed. It seems glass has been falling from the 30th and 50th floors due to poor instillation. Trump is cheap/tacky. Like his buildings, this decision simply proves it.
I don’t understand how people are so stupid. Miss Universe is for WOMEN.
I don’t understand how you are so stupid. Being a woman is far more than what is between your legs.
Yeah. It’s a wax job and a wig as well. Fatuous fool.
An immature point of view from someone clearly uneducated.
The pageant’s DNA is male and still has the male body. NOTHING can change that.
Lumi, So are you a doctor? Have you conducted a genetic test on the contestant or have you seen the results of such a test?
If not then I’m afraid neither you, I or anyone else here is qualified to make statements about the contestants DNA.
Unfounded statements like this are just showing your prejudices.
Exactly Nicki, I think some people don’t realise that there is a difference between the sex of a person and the gender. And it’s not genes Lumi it’s chromosomes. And there are actually a few mixes of sex chromosomes already found. On top of that science has found around 15 definitions of gender.
It’s time if we are going to keep these type of competitions they bring them into the 21st century and make them more inclusive.
Exactly Nicki, Very well said. Oh how they weak judge.
I suspect you think everyone should treat you with respect but why when clearly you can’t others.
Shameful, hateful attitude.
There are “naturally” born women with XY chromosomes. It is simply not that simple. Your ignorance is showing.
Are you really sure you are not a 46xy woman yourself?????
Unless she is lying, in the nude she has no different parts than the average other women..
Yes Lumi, Have you had your DNA checked? Do you have a XX certificate to “prove” you’re a woman?
Then why do you have to get what’s between your legs cut off to feel like a woman?
Yes and we are talking about a woman. Cut the prejudice.
Well, she obviously is….
Go away Lumi and take your nasty little views with you.
You should know better.
She is a women you bigot
And quite right too. I HATE the fact that transgender (and transsexual) people have co-opted the struggle for gay and lesbian rights.
It’s a clothing fetish, people! Like adoring rubber or leather! It’s like camp and ‘straight-acting’ – a variant within a variant.
This is ludicrous. It was a women’s competition. Just let it be!
Your ignorance about trans issues is astounding. Either that or your prejudice against them is equally astounding!
A clothing fetish…. yup…. I really wanted my ‘manhood’ removed so I would be able to wear jeans and t-shirt..
I am glad to hear that you feel children of 3/4 or so are sexually mature enough to have developed clothing fetishes
Clothing fetish?? what an effing ars*h*le you are. To be a fetish you need to get a sexual thrill out of doing what you do. Any trans woman who has gone through the process has actually had all the ability to have a sexual arousal taken away, I.e been castrated. If it were a fetish then the desire will go away no?
It doesn’t because it’s deeper than that, so please don’t judge other people by your own low standards of living
Your ignorance abut trans issues is astounding. Either that or your prejudice against then equally astounding!
People don’t play their game Rob and the other Fed up one are the type of ugly troll that obviously has sad pathetic lives of repression, low IQ and possible mental health issues.
As they say, “Don’t feed the monkeys”
People don’t bother answering Rob and Fed Up, they are obviously ugly trolls that lead repressed, sad, pathetic lives. With a low IQ and possible mental health issues.
As they say “Don’t feed the monkeys”
And please ignore double up, the messages went weird.
Prejudice and discrimination gets us nowhere!
On the offchance that you’re actually serious- go look up Sylvia Riviera. The transwoman who threw the first punch at Stonewall. If i was a lying idiot I’d be like you and claim that cissexual people have co-opted a trans movement. but I’m not like you.
An appalling attitude.
You just HATE end of!
Guess that makes the rest of us much better than you.
Don’t be stupid. You’ll never be better than anyone. Even in the gutter, I’d still be looking down at you.
Transvestites and transsexuals are as sinister as clowns. And about as welcome, in sane circles. You ever see one animal pretend to be another species in nature, do you?
Actually it’s haters like you who are always in the gutter and most of us can’t be bothered to deal with you. Your kinda beneath most human life.
Get real you moron. Most TS women are perfectly happy in jeans and jumper/T-shirt, I probably wear jeans/sweater about 95% of the time in winter – so does that make most guys and most cis-women clothing fetishists too.
Just try and engage your brain before you start spouting poppycock like you have just done here.
Hmmm…. Such a shame for you that, at least as far as I have learned about history, in the US the ‘gay’ rights struggle was started by mainly trans women…
Mr Gay UK. Mr Gay World. So, Miss Trans UK, Miss Trans World, and Miss Trans Universe.
So separating…. how does that help anyone? Surely the way to open up a tolerant society is to include not divide.
Rules are rules…..
and what rules have been broken other than a few people’s own prejudices?
Which, if you believe the saying, rules are meant to be broken! This story is nothing but transphobia!
“Rules are rules. . . .”
Sure!!!. . . But do you not think that rules if they are redunant or restrictive, should be broken!!!
Do we really benefit from rules which police “Gender Purity”
Trolls are trolls
“”the rules of the competition were very clear in that the contestants must be a “naturally born female.” “” Shame they didn’t think to include a rule that the pageant owner had to be a “naturally born human being” !!!
Excellent comment…. so true!!
The fact you use the term ‘It’ shows you are of very low intelligence.
Of course higher intellects use such reverent names as Jock S Trap!!!
Since you seem to be such a medical expert, how do you determine she was born with a male brain?
Also, calling a human being “it” pretty much puts you in the same box as any other dehumanising asshole in history. Like slave owners for instance.
If you have a penis, you have a male brain, simples! Did you know that there are many differences between the male and female brain? If you have a male brain you are male, irrespective of how many bits you chop of or artificially add. You cannot change your gender. If you are anything, you are your brain.
Actually, Mr. Poopy penis, scientists have twice now done studies where they autopsied the brains of dead trans people, including ones who’d never taken hormones. They found that those trans people really did have opposite gendered brains to their sex at birth. So you’re quite right in saying that chopping off or adding bits doesn’t make a trans woman a woman – her brain’s always made her a woman, she’s just modifying her body to fit that (and yes, as an intersexed person i have both a scientific interest and a great personal sympathy for trans people).
Any chance of a link to this nonsense?
Such ignorance makes you a very (dull and boring) ugly. Such hate.
You may believe everything and anything. However, extraodinary claims require extraordinary proof mr S Prat. If you have a penis and no vagina you will have a male brain.
You should read my comment above, excrement on the penis – such extraordinary proof has already been done by two scientific studies.
Just read the scientific data Mr Poo – and once you have educated yourself about these things, then you can comment on it.
Just Google “brain differences in transgender” and you will find plenty of links to the current scientific research – at least you have shown yourself to be not a complete moron, and are willing to be educated. But why you could not have worked how to look that up yourself does speak volumes.
Binary Gender and Race are social constructs designed to rob us of our true human experience, be who want to be people to hell with gender and the whole male and female lie.
Well no, actually, not ‘simples’ at all. If you HAD a brain, you might actually be some way towards actually understanding the real, scientifically-backed issues here. It is possible for a person to have a ‘female’ brain but be born with a penis. ‘Female’ in quotes because there are not simply two genders – people can and do fall anywhere between and outside the spectrum of male and female. Gender and sex are in fact complex sciences.
Another deluded idiot. Show the proof, and I don’t mean hermaphrodites as tey have both. Sjow me a person born with a penis, no vagina and a female brain. This should be fun.
excrement on the PHALLUS OF DOOM: Just because I’m lovely and helpful, here’s a link to one of the studies done that show this sort of thing:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full (Male-to-Female Transsexuals Have Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus)
(P.S. Intersexed people don’t appreciate being referred to as hermaphrodites – we tend to have something inbetween, in terms of genitalia, rather than having both. There are true hermaphrodites but they’re a very small subset of intersex.)
Is this a joke? Thi s merely proves that transexualism is a mental disorder as the heading states “Female Neuron Numbers in a Limbic Nucleus”.
Nowhere does it suggest that a male has a female brain. The brain is still male.
You aere spposed to produce proof of a person with a penis, no vagina and a female brain. You have produced evidence of neural disorder which supports my argument!
As the lead character in Transamerica says, “why do you think a mental illness can be helped with a physical cure?”
Actually Mr. Fecal Phallus, I have shown evidence supporting my statement. It’s quite true that there are multiple areas of the brain different between sexes, and this study only covered one area being female in male-bodied people, but that would seem to support a hypothesis of “female brain in male body” much more than “nebulous mental illness”. I’m sure that as science progresses, more gender dimporhic areas of the brain will be studied, which will just add more and more proof. However, from your rather bizarre interpretation of the results of that study, I’m not sure if you’re a bigot who will ignore or twist whatever those studies say, or if you’re someone who simply cannot understand the data. In any case, take care of yourself, and I genuinely hope you lose whatever issues are causing you to express such hate, and can become a happier, healthier person :)
Since you have failed miserably to show an instance of a person with a penis, no vagina and a female brain, suggest in future proof reding those posts that you assert support your claims I say, if you have a penis (and are not a hermaphrodite), you have a male brain. Simples!
This coming from someone clearly lacking in brain activity.
Also note the following from he report you posted….
“. In addition, we had the unique opportunity to study the brain of an 84-yr-old man (S7) who also had very strong cross-gender identity feelings but was never orchiectomized, sex re-assigned, or treated with CPA or estrogens. Interestingly, this man had also a low BSTc SOM neuron number that was fully in the female range”
Notice that they studies the brain of a ‘man’ and still called him a man after their neuron related findings. Why did they call him a man? because he had a penis and a male brain of course!
Mr Coprophilia, actually it’s far more likely to be because that person presented themselves as male in life, so they respected that 84 year old’s chosen gender pronouns. However, neither you nor me have magical psychic links to the writer of the report, therefore we cannot determine why they chose the words they did. Your increasing clutching at straws just shows how desparate you are to try and win this argument by what TV Tropes would call “Insane Troll Logic” – you’re doing mental gymnastics to use the flavour of orange juice to prove that the world is flat. Seriously, let go of all the hate, heal, and become a happier person!
I am clutching ate straws. i am using the report you prsented to discredit your own argument!
You now cast doubt on your own report by saying that the men were really women who just presented themselves as men???? Not according to the report you yourself posted. Talk about being hoisted by your own petard.
Now do you have a case to present of a person born with a penis, no vagina and a female brain. Of course you do not. Therefore I m correct in my assertion that if you have a penis and no vagina, you have a male brain.
Ps No charge for this educational session.
Keith, you are no longer even coherent. You’re also claiming I said things I never did. There’s no longer any point in attempting to reason with you, as you’ll interpret me saying “Oranges are fruit” to mean “Wasps are dinosaurs”.
You yourself made this statement in response to my assertion that if you are born with a penis and no vagina, you have a male brain…
“and this study only covered one area being female in male-bodied people, but that would seem to support a hypothesis of “female brain in male body””
I checked the report which you claimed supported the above statement and as i have shown in my previous posts, it does not. Therefore you have not supplied evidence of a person born with a penis, no vagina and a female brain.
You have been exposed as a liar by your own posts. Please do not blame me if you cannot get your facts straight.
I will give you another chance to show evidence of a person born with a penis, no vagina and a female brain. Are you able to produce such evidence?
Dear Living disproof of binary sex,
Yes, Keith really does seem to be beyond rational debate. With his ability to misinterpret (deliberately or otherwise) every argument he is presented with, his penchant for posing meaningless questions (it is hardly possible to provide the proof he demands here without first knowing what it is that he arbitrarily considers to be the defining characteristic of a “male brain” or a “female brain”), and his dogmatic adherence to his prejudices concerning LGBTQ people, it really is pointless trying to engage him.
Anybody visiting this thread can see that his arguments are bogus – so personally, I tend to let them speak for themselves rather than giving him a false sense of intellectual validation by debating with him.
As previously stated, I have no wish to engage with Keith; however,, I would like to repost the relevant part of my initial comment, as a reference for anyone still watching this thread:
“I believe that part of Keith’s problem is that he is under the impression that male and female brains are radically and fundamentally different, rather than merely displaying sexual dimorphism in a few key nuclei. This misunderstanding seriously hinders his interpretation of Kruijver et al.”
Dear Living disproof of binary sex:
I believe that part of Keith’s problem is that he is under the impression that male and female brains are radically and fundamentally different, rather than merely displaying sexual dimorphism in a few key nuclei. This misunderstanding seriously hinders his interpretation of Kruijver et al.
He also appears to display poor written comprehension skills generally, as evidenced by his general failure to understand the conclusions of the paper in question. However, his most recent comment would seem to employ a wilful misinterpretation on his part; in essence, Keith is trolling.
So what else is new?
And transgendered people are usually born with the opposite sex brain in the wrong gendered body, so you just pointed out your own ignorance.
Yes, very well put “You cannot change your gender. If you are anything, you are your brain” – which is exactly why transsexual people exist – M2F women have female brains and identify as the female gender (and vice versa for F2M men) despite the fact that we were born with male body parts. You cannot change your gender (unless radical brain surgery at some point in the future can do this) and therefore the body has to be changed to fit in with the mind. The fact that I was born with a penis does NOT mean I have a male brain, far from it.
Go away Keith.
There are some pretty ignorant comments around here about chromosomes, genitalia and sex. Please do some reading. Sexual dimorphism, in mammals at least, is driven by hormones, which does not always correlate with chromosomes. Unless you have had a DNA test done, you don’t even know if you’re “true” men or women (as the bigots call it) yourselves. So cut the ignorant crap. The human body is not that simple and gender and sex are not binaries. It is very well documented in medical research. If you cared to look it up instead of using your ignorance as an excuse to back up your cissexism.
The rules are based on a fictional understanding of human anatomy. They face the same challenge in sports as evidenced by the relevantly frequent cases of “naturally born” women athletes with XY chromosomes.
This is nothing to do with chromosomes. This is about a fetishist who wants to ruin somebody else’s pageant by going dressed up as a parody of a woman.
Again, such blunt ignorance.
Transsexualism has absolutely nothing to do with fetishism. Do you even know what fetishism is? You clearly have not the faintest clue what transsexualism is.
Clearly the person has No education.
Your prejudice makes you a very ugly, hateful person. It’s you that should be treated like second class citizens not the innocent LGBTQI community.
The level of transphobic bigotry that people here show and post is stunning. My thanks to those gay and lesbian people who aren’t small minded bigots and trolls spoiling for a fight.
It’s THEIR competition, they can set the rules. They don’t want a man with a c*ck sashaying through a bunch of women in a women’s beauty contest. Have your own dress up party with other blokes that like to dress up.
Well if she’s post op I don’t understand why they wouldn’t her participate, The voters and people judging the actual competition could have eliminated her later if she performed badly. But not giving her a chance is just sad considering she was born female but physically male yet went hormone therapy and surgery. So much and she gets rejected without even a chance :[
Indeed but I guess the fact that the name Donald Trump is in there somewhere speaks volumes.
I agree with your sentiment but I’d say it doesn’t matter how much surgery she’s had
You’re not very righteous, Righteous.
You must leave a horrible life being so hateful that you are.
Here is hoping that Trump will keep his crappy television shows, his poorly-designed buildings, his sexist “beauty” contests and his failed presidential bids as far south of our borders as possible. Donald, you failed at any attempt to get power in the US, you will fail even more so to get some kind of foothold here. Everything you stand for is contrary to our core – including Conservative – beliefs as a nation. Would you just go away already.
My my, the transphobes are out in force today. I’m sad that there are still so many people who are uneducated and bigoted about trans people and issues. This is exactly why trans people need more visibility, we need to counter the uninformed drivel spewed out by the people who hate us. As for the story, well this is just wrong. Excluding someone based on their gender identity is discrimination, full stop. That “naturally born women” thing is something I’m more accustomed to hearing from transphobic radfems. In the end, what gender some doctor – who knows nothing about how you feel about yourself – assigned you when you were born, using an outdated binary which is based on the cissexist notion that what set of genitals you have defines your gender… It doesn’t matter in the slightest when it comes to how you define yourself, man, woman or other. More people need to understand that. Then maybe we’d actually be a decent way forward on the path to acceptance and equality for trans people.
Indeed… a wake up call. So sad to see we still having to make progress whilst too many are still bigoted.
This whole fiasco has everything to do with Trumpism and the “La Donald’s” vision of the world. He is the ass-ole who demanded proof of the birth of a US president (which required a special act of the Hawaii legislature to approve — at taxpayers’ expense) – he lost. He “summoned” al of the Republican candidates to a debate — none showed. He tried for a run at the US Presidency – he got no backers. He pontificated that equal marriage was not in his agenda and is upset that no one cared what he said one way or the other. (Have you heard any anti-equal marriage quoting him?).
He is a failed father, husband and politician desperately searching for a control zone.
The aclu and glaad needs to reprimand the beauty pageant, for its discriminations , and emotional trauma of that lady , Hetersexuals have posed problems of violence and every kind for decades, and human rights courts and judges must stop thier abuse on society and in society and in famlilies , largely , they are just a jealous group of hatemongers who are lusting after the gay people themselves, and have a jeaolusy that most of them are not interested in them especially the men, that s where your main problem is coming from, they are a national desaster to their own hetersexual race and marriages and relationships, anything else they come in contact with is a desaster, and wrong, because they ab;use others, everywhere , their titles and positions, the worst kinds of people, The humane rights , aclu , lamda legal, and others have to fight the evils of these monsters every;day. to save lives of childfen, and others rights adn well being,
No argument in principle. The discrimination involved is despicable.
But I should point out, though Donald Trump is based in the U.S., this particular decision happened in a pageant in Canada. Since the ACLU is the American Civil Liberties Union, I doubt it’s in their mandate to look into something that happened in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, unless they can go after the pageant’s U.S.-based backers.
However, this is not to say nothing can be done. What is the ACLU’s Canadian equivalent? Maybe they can do something about this, perhaps in conjunction with the ACLU.
You moron Carrie Baker.
Why would either GLAAD or the ACLU get involved in a Canadian controversy?
The ACLU and GLAAD are US specific organisations.
Then again you have ADHD, so expecting a reaonable response from you is a bad idea.
It’s a MAN, people!
“IT”? We are talking about a person you dolt.
Ignorance at it’s finest. Google up a picture of her and then tell me what you think.
Ignorance must be bliss for you. I feel so much pity for you, well if I could be bothered I would anyway.
I wonder what the transphobes (both here in the comments and running the pageant) would classify me as. I’m an intersexed woman, born with ambiguous genitalia, and chromosomes that aren’t XX. So, transphobes, since I was born as neither sex physically, what do you wanna call me? “It”? “Natural born *mumbles*”? Go on, let me know :)
I am more interested as to what you call yourself? Man, woman?
As I said above, I’m an intersexed woman. My gender identity is firmly female, even if my body has never been either.
She should be grateful to be banned.
beauty pageants are meat markets.
She should learn from this experience that pageants which reduce women to a lump of meat, are of course not going to be trans friendlly.
Expecting a misogynist pageeant to welcome trans contestants is absurd.
PN: I feel a law suit coming on.
This girl got the courage to compete in a pageant and feel proud about herself. Thumbs up for her courage!