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Comment: Should straight people be barred from entering gay clubs?

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  1. Gordon Patten 25 Mar 2012, 2:50pm

    If you excluded str8 folk from gay establishments this is discrimination. Its as simple as that. I know many people who are str8 and help the pink economy by frequenting gay places. Not only that, they attend gay pride events and the like – so what would be the advantage of exclusion?? If anything it would actually, in my opinion, be detrimental to the pink pound economy and it would also send the wrong message about the gay community.

    1. It is also illegal to discriminate in the provision of goods and services on the grounds of sexuality, so this club was breaking the law. Gay clubs should be gay-friendly spaces, which means allowing in straight friends as well. Why should gay people be forced to abandon half their friends at the door?

    2. billywingarton 26 Mar 2012, 2:36am

      I go to a qay bar every week to meet u p with gay friends I have made. Whats wrong with that?

      Given the crap that gay people have taken over much of history, due to BS religions, I am both proud to go there, and enjoy seeing my gay friends having a good time.

      I also make sure that the younger crowd is not suicidal

      Try this one – a 22 year old told me his parents hate themselves for having a gay child, and hate him for being one.

      I asked if he was suicidal and he said “I wouldnt give my parents the satisfaction of seeing me dead”

      So much for the catholic and other horror churches as they finally are beginning to make their journey to hell. “Burn baby Burn seems so sweet for the hierarchy.

      BTW a way to cut down on child abuse in the catholic church – castrate all the priests and hierarchy. Give them what they did in Holland a half decade ago to kids who were thought to be gay, and kids who dared to tell the authorities what was happening.

      1. @billywingarton: Do you not realise how much you’re stereotyping people with your very presumptive attitude? I don’t believe you would like to be stereotyped, judged or for people to jump to conclusions about you, so please don’t do the same to others. While it’s important that we have gay bars & clubs, as there is a low risk of people being victims of homophobia, we can’t presume ALL heterosexuals will use homophobic language or violence against LGBT people. I would estimate 10% of hetero people in the UK are homophobic, so most hetero people are supportive of LGBT people.
        Less than 5% of Catholic priests were guilty of paedophilia&child abuse, so what you said was Out Of Order! Most priests & bishops were disgusted of the abuse & how badly it was handled.
        It does NOT help our LGBT community when you make sick comments re castrating all priests & hierarchy!
        Please mature ASAP & learn that stereotyping people is unacceptable behaviour, whether straight/gay,positive/negative experiences

      2. PLEASE STOP STEREOTYPING! You’re out of order by what you said about castrating Catholic priests! Less than 4% of priests were guilty of the disgusting paedophilia&child abuse, with less than 5% of Bishops guilty of not reporting abuse&moving those priests around. Those who were guilty should be been imprisoned. Your attitude of stereotyping people isn’t acceptable, mature or beneficial towards society. I’m sure you don’t like it if/when people judge, stereotype or make presumptions about who you are&how you behave. I certainly feel fed-up when people make dismissive,prejudiced,narrow-minded,ignorant&immature comments to people in minority groups. ANYONE can be prejudiced, even people within minority groups!
        It’s important to have places for LGBT people,but we can’t legally prevent hetero people from entering, unless its evident they’d cause trouble. Separation of hetero&LGBT doesn’t facilitate integration. We need a balance of providing safe LGBT bars&clubs without being too exclusive

    3. You’re right that its discrimination but sometimes its good I think. The Sir Robert Peel pub in Melbourne has excluded has been
      granted a government exemption that allows them to turn away straight customers. You know that you can give your BF a kiss and feel comfortable. Something I probably wouldn’t do in a straight venue.

  2. I would once have agreed with him, however after being assaulted on three occasions over the last few years by beered up straight lads in different venues I have to say theres not much option.

    1. I can see what you mean. I am in very much two minds about the whole thing. Like I said I definitely wouldn’t be happy with 100% straight group coming in to a gay bar. I would worry as to why they’re in there.

    2. It sounds more like a poorly controlled venue where the landlord/landlady doesn’t manage poorly behaved clients. Anyone who is “beered up” can be kicked out of licensed premises. More than than that, if you’ve been assaulted, sue the venue. It is an offence for a licensee to permit drunkenness on the premises.
      To suggest that all straight people should be banned because you’ve had some bad experiences with idiots is offensive stereotyping which would never be considered acceptable if it involved race.

    3. That sounds to me like an argument supporting the creation of exclusively straight clubs for those who want to avoid the possibility of being propositioned by persons of the same gender. How can an insecure heterosexual relax and enjoy a venue comfortably if they allow pooves in?

  3. I have had this same conversation with many of my friends before, and I agree on the whole with what you’re saying Ethan, however what does concern me is that if some clubs were to let hoards of straight people in to a gay club, then they are filling the capacity of a club that should be primarily for gay people. If a gay club is promoted with the idea of being a safe/comfortable place for gay customers to attend, they should be able to do so without being turned away because a club is full of straight people. I’m in two minds about this argument though, it does frustrate me however when I go to Heaven and a big artist is playing and the queues are huge and full of fangirls (‘screaming young girls’). Fair enough they may be lesbian, I shouldn’t judge, but on the whole some nights do seem to attract people who just want to go to a gay club as a group of straight people because they like the kind of night a gay club hosts.

    1. Islandgirl 25 Mar 2012, 4:50pm

      Come on now you know full well that there would not be hoards of straight people going into gay clubs therefore filling up the capacity of the club and gay people will not be able to enter. The only straight people going into gay clubs are mostly personal friends of gay people and want to hang out with their friends. Straigh people are not going to just go into a gay club just to go to a club.

      1. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 4:51pm

        Well Said!!

      2. Not true. Most of the straight women I find in gay bars are there to escape the attention of the straight guys in straight clubs.

        1. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 6:29pm

          But there have been a number of place were that was the case where then straight men cottoned on and flooded the places knowing those woman were easier targets. This is also why we have problems with gay men being attacked. It doesn’t serve a purpose. We must have safe places where we can be ourselves.

      3. not true. There are a number of previously gay bars in my hometown that went from gay club to straight club when they started letting straight people in. the places were “hot night spots”. they were the “in thing”. and it drove the gays away to have obnoxious straight guys (and girls.. there are definitely some obnoxious straight girls) giving them attitude.

        I know this sounds like a generalization, but it is quite factually what happened. The “Jersey Shore” types started hanging out in these clubs.

        1. I’ve had this experience too. A few clubs on Canal St in which my friends and the barstaff were the only gay people in the place and 60% of the clientelle are straight couples where the guy is clutching his girlfriend like a liferaft.
          In one place on new year’s eve there was an obnoxious straight guy propping up the bar who was announcing to people who couldn’t care less ordering drinks in a loud voice, “Look, I have nothing against you people but i’m not queer”. I wanted to say to him “We’ll check on your progress after the next lager” just to wind him up, but the irony would probably be lost on him.
          I don’t mind straight people being there so long as they don’t treat us like either a clear and present threat or a Victorian freakshow.

          1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 11:46am

            Exactly. This seems to be happening to a lot of places.

    2. Agreed Joe

    3. I’m in my 56 year, and I remember about 30 years ago, I went to a old known bar I loved meeting and dancing at, with men of all types to prospect.
      I discovered the bar had become female only, and was told I could not enter, until one of them ask me if I was gay; only then I was allowed to go in and party & dance with my gay sisters. I found that fun without the idea of sex on the mind was the best experience to happen to me that night. My enjoyment was the fact of not being hit on by any of the women.
      However, when straight women are in gay bars, I know from past events that they are not so polite, trying to grope a well-known gay man… Something gay men try to avoid with straight guy.

  4. What a basic simplified view. The law is quite clear. Baring enterence to the establishment on the grounds of sexuality is discriminatory – liable for a fine.

    1. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:32pm

      Well said!

    2. Actually it isn’t so clear. A company is allowed to discriminate on those it wishes to allow admittance if it is part of the companies founding identity. Not sure I’m saying it correctly… example, there was the Woman only taxi company, Women only insurance companies, Gentleman only clubs… the very fact it advertises as a gay club allows it to legally discriminate admittance, rightly or wrongly.

      Im in two minds about the whole thing. I don’t like discrimination and i think it would give us a bad reputation if we started to have hetrophobic admittance policies to gay clubs. At the same time a gay club should be just that… a club for gays.

      1. Redacting the first paragraph of my post. After doing more research it seems it is illegal and recent law changes in Europe have also put a stop to the likes of female only insurance companies etc

        1. Actually Alex, you are right in relation to members only clubs. I was interested in how leather clubs etc. where able to maintain admittance policies barring women. In relation to sex, members clubs can have membership policies as long as these relate to a characteristic of the club activity itself which is not otherwise discriminatory. I.e a men’s sex club for guys into leather can stop a woman in a Laura Ashley dress entering. Likewise a club for experienced pilots can set entry criteria for membership. It’s not a free for all. However there are limits on this so that discrimination on the base of say race or disability could not be justifiable criteria for exclusion.

  5. michael, liverpool 25 Mar 2012, 3:00pm

    I don’t know, the thing is gay people will always be in the minority and, therefore, it’s nice to go to a predominantly gay venue once a week where you can mingle with like minded people! I must add that when I find a supposedly gay venue full of stags and hen dos (which happens often) I feel cheated out of a good night out, I may as well have gone to Wetherspoons!

    I don’t think I’m being discriminatory in the slightest in saying this, but there just aint enough gay folks or gay venues around and the few that we do have should be selective in who they allow in.

    Straight people have most of a city’s nightlife to cop off in, gay folks often only have half a dozen bars to choose from in their nearest city. Is it too mich to ask for a bit of exclusivity?

  6. 1. It’s not always possibly to find out their sexual orientation
    2. Hey, as long as they’re not do anything with someone of the opposite gender, it doesn’t really matter. I’ve gone to straight bars/clubs before because of the lack of good lesbian ones.

    1. Yeah women shouldn’t be allowed in gay bars though. Just like men shouldn’t be allowed in lesbian bars.

      1. I changed my mind, I go with my original post. As long as they’re nice. Haha.

        1. Now, if a woman and a man start hooking up at one…. hell no :P

          1. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:35pm

            Well that assumes that theyre also discriminating against Bisexuals doesnt it…

            The point about Gay Bars (aside from minority interest sex clubs) is that they are essentially (and always have been) for pretty much ALL LGBT (Queer) people.

            Its about creating a safe space where discrimination DOESN’T happen – not one where it does…

          2. LGB, I’m not talking about T.

            Well I was just waking up when I made those commments, I didn’t make myself clear. Yeah, as long as people act fine towards LGBs, then they’re welcome, if not, they’re not welcome.

    2. Does it matter if they do? Acceptance works both ways.

      1. I sort of pity him, he’s been brainwashed by an ancient book of evil.

  7. In fact they were excluded for being women, not for being straight. Do you know what happens when you fill a club with straight women? You attract straight men who want to have them. When there are so few safe spaces for gay men to enjoy each others company, why do heterosexuals insist on colonizing them? You turned up at the door with five times (!!) as many straight women as gay men. Nevertheless, the law is quite clear with regards to this issue.

    1. It’s not just that reason William, I absolutely hate that fact I go to a gay club as a gay women and then get hit on loads by the straight men who go their. Straight men do not take no for an answer and are completely offensive. Twice I’ve had men follow me around a club harassing me even though I’ve said no a number of times. In the end i’ve had to get the bouncers in. On top of that hen party girls fill up the places and they then can give attitude to us as well. Gay places are meant to be safe space from straight prejudices and they are ending up the same as any where else.

      1. I’ve experienced this too. Years ago on Canal Street the male clubs were male only, but the one female venue was “friendly” and I got propositioned by a guy in there, and had another one who kept blowing on the back of my neck and then smirking when I glared at him. But because it wasn’t an overt demonstrable act, I didn’t feel like I could get him bounced.

    2. There’s even less for gay/lesbian women William! Our gay bars are mixed up here!

      I prefer to be called a gay woman btw which is why I put both! lol

  8. Rhys-Christian Mobsby 25 Mar 2012, 3:05pm

    It’s ridiculous to think that someone should be banned from entering a venue due to their sexuality. It almost reverses what people have strived to achieve with regards to equality and freedom of choice.

    A previous comment says that the person was ‘Assaulted on three occasions over the last few years by beered up straight lads’ – Maybe he should be asking what he is doing to provoke these reactions.
    People that feel straight people should be banned from gay clubs are the reason so many LGBT people feel uncomfortable with the ‘Scene’, as it is a narrow-minded view on essentially approving segregation and seperation.

    1. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 3:14pm

      “Maybe he should be asking what he is doing to provoke these reactions.”

      Er excuse me, doesn’t that rather fit in with arguments belonging to the 50’s and before.

      What a nasty comment… how about just being Gay or is that difficult to comprehend? Isn’t it this Very attitude why we have Gay venue for Gay people. So that people Can go to a club/pub and just be themselves Without fear or being attacked or from verbal abuse.

      I agree with this article but I can also see why bouncers have to be selective at the door.

    2. There is NO excuse or mitigation for assault. What are you talking about? Unless you want to infer that those straight lads were engaging in self defence. Think carefully about what you are trying to say.

    3. well on the last occasion i was snogging a bloke and they took exception to that….and if i cant do it there where can I???

    4. I have been started on for doing absolutely nothing he was just uncomfortable about his sexuality in a gay bar and so struck out, I don’t mind bars being straight and gay but you should just have to be with someone gay to get in.

  9. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 3:07pm

    I agree with this article but I would point out that for many it is an issue of security. It is a difficult balance to make because most people are supportive and are not threatened by our community but we do have to think in the terms that too many still wish to harm us so are we excluding because of prejudice or simply to keep the places as safe and secure as possible.

    We could use the arguement that it discriminates against heterosexuals on ground of orientation but at what point does violent and abusive attacks get taken into consideration.

    I myself had a partner years ago who a big named club refused entry on the basis of he was straight and they were afraid he would bash… this was at the time my partner. Though many straight people already frequented said club.

    No it’s not ideal but I would rather have a good policy of feeling safe and secure knowing who I was interested in wouldn’t take offense because they are straight. (Mind you not that, that ever stopped me)

    1. Excluding all straight people from gay clubs just to keep the gay club safe is absurd.
      With that logic, all people of Islamic faith should not be allowed to fly.
      By offensively classifying all straight people as ‘potential homophobes’ we portray them as the enemy.
      Years ago, when gay people were regularly attacked and not only was their no legal framework to combat it, but there was legislation against homosexuality (Section 28), then a gay-only policy needed to be enforced.
      The policy gave gay people the security needed that the police and Government failed to provide.

      Now, when Police forces have officers assigned to LGBT-hate crimes, homophobic attacks are classified as hate crimes and punished according, LGBT people don’t need protecting by door policies like this.

      Furthermore, it is the same prejudice that LGBT people have fought against for years.
      Complete double standards and bang out of order.

  10. Having worked in gay venues since i was 18 I agree entirely with Ethan, the fact is, except in London, Brighton and other areas where there are large numbers of LGBT the pubs and clubs could not survive without the non LGBT money (lets call it the grey pound LOL).Most places i have worked in make it completely clear that intolerance of any kind will not be accepted, be it hetero or homo- phobia. I have even had to have conversations with people who have said “you can’t let them in, they are str8″ and point out to them how outraged they would be if they went to a venue over the road and were denied entry on the basis of being LGBT.

    Lets face it if a pub said no you can’t come in if you are gay everyone would be outraged and rightly so (prime example the kiss in thing last year), but we cannot be hypocritical here. Many str8 girls prefer the gay venues as they don’t get harassed and even the str8 boys seem to realise that no means no in a gay venue and are, for the most part, respectful

    1. Having a zero tolerance policy is a good start. People are saying that there shouldn’t be an issue of wanting LGBT spaces for “safety” reasons. But I’ve had experience of having to get a bouncer’s help because a straight guy would not leave my then girlfriend and me alone (and I’m butch, hardly an oil painting and rarely get out of my depth). I can’t imagine what that would be like for those younger or less able to cope or know how to get help. There IS a safety issue in play.

      1. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 4:57pm

        Very well put Valksy.

        There are a good few point for and against this argument but feeling safe has to be the prime concern.

  11. Yeah, of course, it’s that simple. Because Ethan, if you went into 99 percent of ‘straight’ venues and started kissing your boyfreind, no one would look at you as if you were a freak. You would be totally welcome, it would be totally normal, no one would be homophobic towards you. You could flirt with any guy in a ‘straight’ venue, even start chatting him up, then when he found out you were gay and were hitting on him, he wouldn’t care. He might even suddenly realise he is gay, but then understand that being gay is not accepted in 99 percent of ‘straight’ clubs. Which is why we need gay clubs. Should heterosexuals be allowed into gay clubs? Only if they pretend to be gay, because every time I go to a straight club, I have to pretend I’m straight. So next time you go to a gay club with same hetero girls, just tell them to pretend they are lesbians for the night.

    1. I’ve only ever once been told by staff in a straight club/ pub/ bar to stop acting like the heterosexuals around me because I’m doing it with another man. Yeah it’s harder to pull in there, but I don’t suddenly take on a whole new persona to “fit in.” The number of times I’ve been knocked back from gay venues for being with straight mates (whether male of female) far outweighs this.

      And I love the way that you’re advocating lowering our standards to equal that of the lowest common denominators in society because that is so enlightened and civilised! Oh no, wait, you’re being just as big a moron as the homophobes…

      1. Well stated. I have never felt that I have had to “pretend to be straight” in non-gay clubs. These days, in my experience, hardly anyone bats an eyelid if I kiss another bloke.

    2. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 4:59pm

      Another excellent comment with a very valid argument.

    3. Sorry I voted this thumbs down by mistake….brillaint comment…point well made.

    4. This is clearly a tricky issue as the law is clear. It wasn’t long ago that a gay couple had to go through the courts because they were barred from a christian hotel. In an ideal world it would apply both ways but, as you are right to point out, we don’t live in an ideal world. When all LGBT people feel safe throughout society then gay venues will not be necessary. Until then, gay venues will have to continue to monitor their door policy and, no doubt, some will welcome the extra income from straight customers. Personally, I would prefer to go elsewhere.

  12. If they don’t mind being propositioned, I’d welcome them. Might even give them the two pints. :-)

  13. Nobody seems to have even thought, what about us bisexuals? We end up excluded from the supposedly lgB&T communities because of stuff like this. I happen to be with a man now, so don’t feel welcome at “gay” venues. There are no specifically bi venues.

    Also what about people newly coming out with no gay friends, are they meant to go alone?

    1. A bi woman with a boyfriend is not going to get thrown out of a straight club, however a guy and his boyfriend would, and two girls would need mace to get rid of the pervs asking them for a threesome. You chose to date a guy, so go to a straight club. Unlike homosexuals you get to chose.

      1. If two gay men got kicked out of a straight club for kissing they’d easily sue and rightly win.

        Yes, you’d get idiots asking pretty lesbian couples for threesomes, but no more than they’d get propositioned alone. Take it as a compliment, and do you spend all your time snogging while in a club? You may as well not bother if that’s all you’re going to do.

        You’re advocating that since “hippynic” is dating a man she must now separate herself from part of the scene she used to enjoy visiting and socialising in? You really are a bigoted prick.

        1. If I chose to date a guy, I would go to straight clubs with him, if we wanted to go to a club. Although it’s been a very long time since I met a straight guy my age, who was single and not a total prick, so my patronising a straight club isn’t likely in the near future.

          1. That’s YOUR choice, you seem to think you should force it onto others also.

          2. Fine, ignore the B in LGBT I will just be invisible as usual. No wonder in a recent report I read bi women have a higher incidence of mental health issues. You just demonstrated how certain parts of the lgBT community are themselves ignorant and bigoted.

          3. Just to clarify, my last post was aimed at Sevrin, not Damien whom I thank for being supportive

          4. Brace yourselves people cause it’s about to get geeky up in here!

            In X-Men (the ultimate super-power based coming-out allegory), one character is a blue shapeshifter (Mystique) and is asked by another why she doesn’t simply look human all of the time. Her reply? “Because I shouldn’t have to.”

            Sometimes, just because an option presents itself, doesn’t mean it’s the right one. hippynic has every little bit as much of a right to frequent and club of her choosing without feeling ostracised or victimised.

            You know, I’d never really come accross biphobia in all my 8 years as an openly gay man, and it’s really depressing to behold.

      2. I’ve never been kicked out of a nongay club for kissing a man before. I’ve bin that drunk I’ve been all over a guy, hands down pants and everything, loads of people were stood watching, completely cringe worthy, and I still didn’t get kicked out.

      3. Paddyswurds 26 Mar 2012, 1:33pm

        choose even**

  14. In reply to a few of the posts on here i find ridiculous, regardless of people being straight or gay its the securities responsibility to protect any one on a night out from people who is violent when drunk and on many occasions there are gay people fighting aswell as its a big part of night life! Also for the fact that people go to places like heaven to see celebs well its a first come first serve basis if you reaaaaaally want to see someone get there early we are meant to be a community where people are not made to feel stupid about who they are and frankly being asked to leave on the basis that you are straight is sickening! Its already classified as a gay venue how more exclusive do you want it? People can do pretty much what they want in these venues which straight people would never get away with in theirs and if the scene wasnt so rife with drugs alot of the straight ‘troubler makers’ as such wouldnt bother coming!

    Dont get me wrong i do understand both sides just not fair!

  15. Inclusion not exclusion…
    This should apply everywhere.

  16. Kris Jones 25 Mar 2012, 3:18pm

    This looks like a prima facie breach of section 4 of the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007. That section bars discrimination in the provision of goods, facilities and services on the basis of one’s sexual orientation. The regulations were clearly intended to prevent discrimination against gay people, but the necessary quid pro quo is that someone cannot be discriminated against because they are straight. I imagine it would be fair for club staff to point out that a venue is intended primarily for the use of the gay community but to ask for people’s sexual orientation and bar access on that basis appears to be unlawful.

  17. Brian Baber 25 Mar 2012, 3:19pm

    Mostly any Straight people who go into a gay bar are our friends and allies. They are the people who what gay people to have the same rights that they do. To ban a straight person from a gay bar is discrimination. I would boycott that bar until they change their attitude. We have fought many years to be equal and now we are truning around and doing the same thing that was done to us. This is not right and unexcuable.

    1. If they were genuinely our friends and allies, would they not recognise that we are looking for something that they take for granted?

      OK, a friend or ally female won’t lash out to a lesbian who is chatting her up, won’t invite her for a threesome with her boyfriend and won’t expose her to an angry boyfriend who might become aggressive – But do gay women who are out to pull want to waste their time?

      Or do we really have to go back to flags and symbols and codes because our “friends” do not respect our spaces?

  18. Stuart Neyton 25 Mar 2012, 3:22pm

    I don’t understand why some support this kind of discrimination with arguments about LGBT clubs somehow being “safe spaces”. Straight people go to these places in full knowledge they’re LGBT, so if they cause trouble, homophobic abuse etc, then they’re thrown out and banned. I don’t socialise exclusively with people who share my sexual orientation.

    1. Rudehamster 25 Mar 2012, 4:31pm

      Sadly, there have been numerous cases of straight guys going in specifically to cause trouble. They go in as a group, with their girlfriends.
      By the time they’ve done the damage, its too late, and people have been assaulted. I’ve been medic on several such incidents.
      It is unfortunate that very few people vote with their feet, when this happens, and all too often they forget about it , or say ”oh, it nothing to do with me”…and come back to the same club the next week as if nothing had happened. Promoters should do more about it, but rarely if ever do.

      1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 11:54am

        Well aid again Rudehamster. When is it too late to see that Gay venue must be allowed to generate safety first at all times.

        1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 11:54am

          Oops sorry Well said!!

  19. How do you tell? Do the door men make men go down on them to prove they’re gay? I’ve been at large gay events that had signs: ‘This is a GLBT friendly event. All patrons who are tolerant are welcome. If you have a problem with this, there’s the door’ It get’s the point across without the silly ‘You must be gay to attend’

  20. I go to gay clubs to meet women and chat them up, there is nothing worse than getting the courage to talk to a woman I like, only for her to turn around and tell me she is straight or to walk off and attempt to cop off with nearest male. If straight women want to avoid the attention of men (the most common reason for them being in a gay club in my experience) they shouldn’t dress like they are up for it.

    1. And then of course there are the straight guys who go to bars with lots of lesbians to perv on the couples dancing and showing affection.

  21. They cannot be barred, that much is absolutely clear under the law. And the simple truth is that if we demand equality, that goes both ways.

    It might be possible (and I’m not a lawyer, so please don’t take my word for this) that there is an exemption involved for some kinds of member’s clubs. Last time I checked it was very much a grey area – so a gentleman’s club that had never allowed women could still do so, but a gentleman’s club that sometimes allowed women could no longer put limits on them.

    It’s a bit messy and it’s an all or nothing option, and it makes obtaining new clients harder. Who wants to go to the trouble of joining a club when you just want a beer in friendly company?

    But I do want to socialise with other gay women. I’m not sure what the answer is that doesn’t involve re-invoking old codes to one another so we don’t get straight women in the way, with boyfriends who either want to watch or will swing because we chatted up their girlfriend.

  22. The law does try to preclude discrimination, which is good. But I must admit that when I’ve gone into my favorite gay establishment to hang out, there are times when a bride and her entourage are having a night out and more often that not, it’s like they’re visiting the local zoo. “Is he gay? He looks so straight (which is offensive). He just needs a good woman, etc, etc.” I understand the inebriati utter silly and stupid comments, no matter the gender or orientation, but it does get uncomfortable and unenjoyable. As other posters have said, there are also the straight men thinking they’re going to have easy pickings with these girls. And if the coin was flipped (a gaggle of gay bois popping into a straight bar), the possibility for mayhem would be much more severe, no matter what the law says.

    1. I don’t understand the hen night safaris. I cannot imagine anything more tedious on the cusp of getting married than going out and staring at straight people….

      This is, of course, the problem for LGBT establishments. They rely on LGBT clientele, but if they become a target for straight groups out on a “freak show” night, the LGBT clients get tired of being mistreated and move on, the straight groups move on and the establishment can find itself in trouble in a hurry.

      Frankly, I consider the heterosexual need to force themselves in to what few spaces we have to be nothing more than the same kind of heteronormative ignorance that makes them say things like “when do we have a straight pride day.”

      1. I agree, I doubt if Ethan had gone to a gay club with just one or maybe 2 straight women they probably wouldn’t have been refused entrance, but 5 straight girls? that’s a hen party in all but name.

    2. Paddyswurds 25 Mar 2012, 4:02pm

      why does my comment not appear until I make another….grrrr

    3. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t believe there is such a thing as a “straight bar”. I go to normal bars with my boyfriend. If I want to be somewhere where I know nobody will bat an eyelid at us, then I’ll go to a specifically gay bar, but for the most part, segregation is unhelpful. We’re luckier than most to live in a country where people are by and large not massive homophobes.

  23. Rudehamster 25 Mar 2012, 3:33pm

    I’ve worked as a medic in a number of clubs, including both Turnmills & The Fridge in London. So I feel I can answer this.
    The law is the law, but while it is safe for straight people to be who they are in gay clubs, the safe cannot be said for the reverse. Sadly, and especially outside the larger cities, gay clubs are one of the very few places that gay people can feel safe to do what they want and be who they are.
    A bit of history: Heaven was floor to ceiling mirrors. It was all very well until the straight crowd started to be admitted…soon there were complaints about cruising and, bit by bit, the mirrors were removed (starting with the men’s toilets) until the whole venue was changed. The same happened to a number of other places: complaints made to Westminster City Council about men using ladies toilets, led to the ludicrous affair of men being banned from using the ladies in a men-only fetish night. Clubs have been informed that the ladies loos are sacrosanct, lest

  24. Rudehamster 25 Mar 2012, 3:34pm

    lest they lose their licence.
    I’ve been at club nights where the atmosphere changes when the balance of heterosexuals tips over a certain point. It’s all very well to allow some straight people in, but eventually they will bring their boyfriends, friends, office parties, etc, and soon it’s a gawping centre, rather than a place where gay people feel safe.
    I’ve been told to stop snogging my then boyfriend, as the straight couple beside us took offence.
    I’ve lost count of the number of boys I’ve patched because they’d cruised the straight guy & he’d taken offence.
    Frankly, I get really annoyed when I go out for a night and I can’t get room on the dancefloor because 3 or 4 guys have each brought all the girls from the office…all straight, bar him.
    As I said, the law is the law, but it is a safety issue as much as anything else.

    1. Jock S. Trap 25 Mar 2012, 5:14pm

      So very well put Rudehamster.

      The bigger cities may seem ok but most outside the cities I would expect require and Need the safety of know they are in a Gay/Lesbian enviroment.

      Let’s not take for granted why we have such clubs and pubs.

      It’s not a case of supporting discrimination it is supporting mine and every other LGBTQI persons right to be safe and enjoy themselves.

  25. It is ILLEGAL to exclude someone from a pub on the basis of sexuality. This is the very thing the LGBT community would vilify the heterosexual community for: Need I mention the Chymorvah hotel case in Cornwall. We cannot accept one rule for the straight community, and then ignore it for our own purposes.
    This is nothing new in the gay community, and having been refused entry to one of the larger clubs in Manchester because I wouldn’t “prove that I was gay”, I feel it’s rather tasteless when the community does this.

  26. I know exactly what he’s saying, but what worries me is how they’ll judge if you’re ‘gay’ enough. You can’t tell who’s gay or straight by looking them up and down. I’m a femme bisexual girl, and no doubt I’d be assumed to be straight and not allowed into clubs if this was done everywhere. Even aside from that, it’s discrimination. If people are causing a fuss in the bar, deal with them regardless of their sexuality. Don’t ban all straights because some cause trouble.

  27. A gay venue is for gay people. Gay people go to a gay venue specifically to mix and socialise with other gay people. Most do not mind if straight people are in attendance, however I have seen on many occasions in smaller venues where the straight people outnumber the gay people – the venue shuts down. Its a matter of numbers, a group of 5 straight girls, come on now. What about the next group further in the queue? Let in some of course, but there has to be a limit or simply the venue isn’t a gay venue anymore. In a gay venue, I want to feel comfortable and relaxed, not get funny looks from straight peers. Or to get rejected by someone because it turns out they aren’t even gay, and the same time perhaps risk confrontation because of it.. If I want to mix with straight people, I can do that all day every day anywhere or any place I go. Gay venues are extremley few – its a night out where I want to socialise with other like minded gay people, simples..

    1. “If I want to mix with straight people, I can do that all day every day anywhere or any place I go.” – and what if straight people want to mix with gay people? You can’t pick and choose equality to suit you.

      1. Rudehamster 25 Mar 2012, 4:41pm

        I’m sure that wasn’t his point, Damien.
        The bottom line is that it’s almost impossible to be able to have same obvious same-sex relationships in a straight club, and when the straights demand access to gay clubs, many want OUR behaviour to change to suit their presence. In most cases this behaviour change happens without us being aware of it:
        Too many straight people changes the makeup of the club and the whole chemistry is off balance. The straight boys, sometimes unwittingly, start on hunting and defensive mode: all the girls start to feel uncomfortable and the gay guys have lost the atmosphere in their club.
        I’m sure we’ve all watched it happen far too often.

        1. That’s the point, he only wants equality when it suits his perspective.

          1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 3:31pm

            And as also said at what time is it acceptable for Gay people to change our own behaviour in Gay venues to accom Straight people?

    2. Substitute another group, e.g. “white,” in your reply, and you will see the folly and narrow mindedness of your thoughts, e.g. “white people go to a white venue specifically to mix and socialize with other white people.”
      There would be no end to the fallout of a “white only” venue and similarly a “gay only” venue should similarly not be tolerated. Another reader has suggested that “inclusion, not exclusion” should be our common goal!

  28. Gays are a tiny minority which has not many public spaces, and there is no urgent need for straight people to invade those few spots of Gay culture. Any respectfull straight person understands this basic fact and either stays away or, when inside, behaves decently in order not to disrupt the Gay atmosphere of the place. A larger quantity of gawking straight females is most certainly annoying in the same way as the tourists with flashlights are annoying in churches, or clothed voyeurs on a naked beach. Bringing hordes of straight female friends with you into a Gay bar demonstrates little respect for others in the location.

    1. Even though I posted with a “Oh lets not be hypocritical” I guess this point is really valid and I support it.

  29. Paddyswurds 25 Mar 2012, 3:45pm

    Excluding anyone because of their sexual orientation is wrong and illegal if the venue is an open club or bar. We cant scream about being asked to leave straight bars in Soho one day and the next do exactly the same at a gay bar. It is up to the venue to hire enough security to ensure the straight lads behave themselves in Gy venues. If we want exclusivity then we must return to membership only venues where you can exclude those who are not registered members; however this sort of venue is seldom successful for very long unless reinvented regularly. One soon gets fed up looking at the same faces week after week and it is also not very long until you’ve propositioned every member.

  30. Time and again I’ve seen clubs go through cycles of being mostly gay to becoming mostly straight and then becoming mostly empty. a lot of straight people come because its “cool” to hang with the gays (and lets face it, we’re a lot more fun too lol). But then the gay clientele start to go elswhere and then the straights stop going.

    Bottom line though it is discrimination (and may be illegal). I know a club in Canada that had two queues… one for guys only. And another for guys with girls or just girls. They paced the lines accordingly. It was a fairly small club and would fill up with straight girls if it was allowed to.

  31. Robert in S. Kensington 25 Mar 2012, 4:02pm

    I’m all for allowing straight people into gay clubs, bars, why not? We’re in the middle of a marriage equality battle and not getting many signatures in the petition supporting us, so I’d rather have gay friendly straight people on my side than against us. We need every one of them. The owners of these establishments have the final say but it would be foolish to exclude straight people who aren’t anti-gay. If any of them make trouble, then the owners have the right to eject them with or without police assistance as the case may be, even gay trouble makers. Straight people need to get a better understanding of who we are and allowing them into our venues is a good way to break down barriers. Its a good, positive thing to promote tolerance and equality.

    1. Good point well made. Sorry meant to give the thumbs up, but clicked thumbs down by mistake!

    2. probably in london this would work, theres a sufficient “community” as such for people to feel secure. Its not the same situation in small cities and towns. I have no problem with some straight people- i have taken small numbers of straight friends to gay venues, but only the ones i know wouldnt cause trouble, and who would respect the venue and its clientele. Its a different matter when there is one gay venue in a town (compared to a hundred straight ones) and a group of girls/lads decide to go watch the animals in the zoo…

  32. Coming from a more rural area, I’ve seen gay bars launched and because they have been so good and a break from the other dives, more and more straight people have gone to them as they WERE allowed in. And within months, they became predominately straight bars.

    1. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:40pm

      This is generally not true in larger places like London – in smaller places it probably has more to do with how few out LGBT people there are who are willing to openly frequent and support gay venues.

  33. What about Freedom of Association?

    There’s no point in having a gay club, bar or sauna if it loses its identity by allowing anyone in.

    Gay establishments are for gays to meet gays, simple as that. Leave well alone, there are thousands of other places if you want to meet the world at large…

    1. Anyone that remember the Dave’s Villa in Palm Springs, CA should know of it’s loss to allowing straight people to join with the gay people…

      The outcome was gays abandoned the place to the heaps of straight families of grandma & pa with children…

  34. Brilliant. Gay guy starts fighting for the equality of his straight girl friends so they can go into gay nightclubs. What a freedom fighter. What a joke.

    1. And if you acted like this in any of the straight clubs I go to, you’d probs get your face smashed in for being too gay.

    2. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:42pm

      This is crap, Stan. And actually says more about how far we’ve come in the past 10-15 years or so in particular.

      I am actually rather sickened by your suggestion that this is somehow a ‘joke’…

      Equality is a serious business…

  35. Gay men are quite skittish as a group. I’ve seen 2 Gay clubs close soon after they became heavily Lesbian or straight populated. Gay men need their all male man-cave to feel comfortable. Granted an occasional friend is fine, but it doesn’t take the Gay population to be less than 50%. As soon as they feel like they are on display like in a zoo, if they have to be hesitant or apologetic for who they are, the place quickly dies, the Gay men are gone. They may “test” the club once after a few weeks to see if it is still Gay, but if it’s too mixed with straights or lesbians, they’ll never return. I live in an area crying for a Gay club. 2 started and 2 died, each within 3 years, for this exact reason. I don’t have a solution or I’d open one myself.

    1. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:46pm

      There’s only one solution: make sure that anywhere that opens actually has the support of local gay men and also has EDUTAINMENT at the core of its philosophy and mission statement.

      The thing that so many gay men fail to recognise is that many people are put off of going into gay venues because they are given very clear ‘clues’ as to how welcome they actually are.

      A good example of this is the way that many black gay men feel excluded from mainstream gay venues simply because those venues have no black presence ie bar staff or other black customers.

      A club can be more than just a way to rip off our Pink Pound – it can be a supportive & welcoming place for all people under the LGBT umbrella AND their friends.

      But in order to do this, there has to be some understanding from the promoter that this is important and desirable.

      1. As a black gay man, this reminds me of incidents when I have been into Gay clubs and pubs and have been asked by the bouncers (ok door supervisors these days) “do you know this is a gay club/pub?”. I think security in a safe space is the main issue here.

  36. Terry Eastham 25 Mar 2012, 4:32pm

    I have never been asked my sexual orientation at the door of a ‘straight’ establishment and would be surprised if it is even legal to do so.

    We would all be up in arms if we were talking about a straight club refusing to let gay people in, so the same rules need to apply to our venues. thats equlity folks!

  37. I definitely don’t think that straight people should be barred from entering gay bars & clubs…especially if they have gay friends and girlfriends. Plus, sometimes straught people go into gay bars and come out learning that they can be bi or even gay if they find the right person. Lets not close the doors on straight people anymore than we want the doors closed on gay people.

  38. Dermot, London 25 Mar 2012, 4:36pm

    Like some of the other people commenting, I’ve seen what happens when the ratio of gay to straight people in a gay club or bar shifts too much towards straight. The atmosphere and dynamics of the place change and it loses its vibe as a gay venue.

    It would be nice to think that we could all intermingle without prejudice or without anyone feeling uncomfortable, but the simple fact in this equation is that we (gays) are not on a level playing field with our straight peers.

    Last year a gay male couple were asked to leave a straight pub (the John Snow) in the heart of Soho – London’s medialand. All they had done was exchange a few discreet kisses.

    The pub landlord in that case would be breaking the law by refusing them entry on grounds of their sexuality, but was within the law in asking them to leave for indulging in behaviour that he found distasteful.

    Now, if something like THAT can happen in the heart of liberal London you can see why we might want to keep our gay venues gay.

  39. I think it’s a tricky one.. there are so few gay places that I agree to restrict the number of straight people to be honest. I’m not saying all aren’t allowed but they should be in the minority.. a group of 5 seems too much. At the end of the day, if I go out, I want to be in an environment where I know the girls I may be attracted to are gay, rather than straight. It is a gay venue afterall.

  40. Ok, that was a lie – I do have an idea, it’s legal, but doubt it will get past local authorities.

    It is a very small pub with the obligatory restrooms, one for women and one for men. The women’s 1 toilet restroom includes a nice lounge area with a bench and a few flowers. The men’s restroom with it’s 6 toilets and 6 urinals includes a lounge, too, which is the size of the rest of the building with its own bar, dance floor and stage, as well as a billiards/games areas and an auxiliary Men’s restroom.

    If law states that women may not enter a Men’s Room, so be it! Thus far, my ideas for a name are “Men’s Room”, “White Swallow” or “Two Cocks”.

    If you like this idea, I’d be glad to help manage it.

  41. I do agree for the most part about the issue in this article however, I think you are being slightly contradictory in the use of the term ‘gay scene.’ At the end of the day you need to ask why the ‘gay scene’ was developed in the first place. A environment where not only were individuals of a certain persuasion would feel comfortable but also would be able to share a “common interest.”
    I have to wonder then why – I’m sorry to say straight women – frequent these places. I have no desire to be a gay fashion accessory, neither do I want to be gawked at for the entertainment of hen parties. Please all come in and dance and drink with us, however don’t come down to try and prove a stereotypical notion, “The Gays Love me!” Sorry but I don’t.

    1. Well said. But you don’t need to say “sorry” to those disrespectful straight women. Gay men are not born to make to them feel better.

  42. I agree with the main article and the law is clear on this. As for the argument that a couple of straight people in a gay club is ok but no more, this is just as bad. How would we feel if a group of gay people booked rooms at a rural bed and breakfast, only to be told that whilst having one or two gay people stay wouldn’t be an issue, other guests would feel uncomfortable with any more. We would rightly be up in arms about it!

  43. Paddyswurds 25 Mar 2012, 5:11pm

    Trying to be exclusive is what killed off Studio 54 in New York many years ago. But too mixed isn’t the solution either as someone above pointed out. How about we give the straight lads pins to identify straight or gay or don’t mind so they don’t get hit on . Maybe then we wouldn’t have the homophobic fights over being propositioned…..

  44. Saying this as a gay man, banning straight people from gay clubs is discrimination, legal action should be taken against any venue are are carrying out this vile act.

    1. “Vile act” Grow up and look at reality. When I go to a gay place I expect to not be groped by straight men or given dirty looks from faghags. It’s meant to be a safe space for people who are into the same gender, however lots of gay places have become unsafe for us.Straight people should only be allowed in if there with gay/bi people. And the gay/bi people need to use their brains and veto who they actually invite to these clubs and respect the rest of us there. As for bi/sexual people, I assume if you come to a queer place your wanting to express your queer side, so why would you need to come if your at the time in a straight relationship, as there is plenty of places you can go then. Unless of course your with a mix of queer people and then fine. But that would then mean your one of us anyway and no the ones that will grope, punch us.

      1. If you’re being groped by straight men, then tell the staff and they’ll be ejected – as is true of any club.
        (Also, lesbian women that you’re not interested in may also grope you too)
        What are these places that have become ‘unsafe’?
        And why is it just straight people who have made it so?

        What I take greatest objection to is: “Straight people should only be allowed in if there with gay/bi people”
        Firstly, who is asking you to choose?
        Secondly, turn that the other way round. “Gay people should only be allowed [into a straight club] with straight people”.
        There would be outrage in the gay community!

  45. I’m queer. Perhaps I should be required to declare which sex I will be pursuing tonight on my twitter feed prior to leaving the house.

  46. I didn’t realise they did things like this in some places. Seems a terribly silly idea to me.

    Also, since I don’t actually have any gay friends and I don’t feel at all comfortable going into these places on my own, taking in a straight friend to keep me company is really my only option.

    1. I think most people would agree with you on this point. Its great that we can all party together, but look at other peoples comments and it does kind of make sense. I’m sure your friend is lovely as are my straight friends that come out with me time to time but do you not think that it does trivialise what the ‘gay scene’ was created for.

      1. No, I don’t. In fact I think that straight people tagging along is a good thing. The biggest problems gay people have tend to come from straight people who aren’t comfortable around us. The more straight people who ARE comfortable around us, and happy to go to and be seen in gay places, the less prejudice and irrational bigotry we’re going to have to suffer.

        Compared to that the chance you might accidentally start hitting on a straight person is a pretty minor quibble I reckon. Especially since the situation there will usually become apparent within the first minute of the encounter.

        1. I suppose that all depends on how willing you are to spend your finite free time being a outreach programme to straight people so that they can get acclimatised to us…

  47. As a straight person, I would not be offended, if the situation were explained politely – eg, “We’re sorry, but our gay clientele feels safer in an all-gay environment.” On those grounds, I could never cry “hypocrite”.

  48. Straights go to the gay venues as they know there will be no trouble…but its hard now to see who is available in gay venues…THERES JUST TOO MANY STRAIGHTS NOW….

  49. Yes, Like many other stated before, lets not be hypocritical about acceptance. Besides they’re heterosexual woman, call me stereotypical but what’s the harm ? I hope it isn’t some gay orgy fest happening in the club with these woman being visual boner killers or something. Very stupid .
    I Hope this club gets it’s license revoked for being discriminatory and setting a bad example , I’m sure those ladies think gay people are shallow bitches .
    I’m so glad Ethan left with his friends to find a more accepting club.

    1. Rudehamster 30 Mar 2012, 7:01pm

      I honestly couldn’t give a toss what they thought.

  50. Ahem, being gay is perfectly normal thank you very much.

    Being a horrible bigot, on the other hand, is thankfully not. But fortunately there is a cure for bigotry.

  51. It’s terrible to think that a section of our community is being discriminatory and excluding rather than including. If it continues and grows then I think it will be the undoing of all the work and achievements made so far with equality. To repeat a battle cry of the black community in America in a bygone time: “integration not segregation”.

    If we truly want equality then we have to be inclusive otherwise we give the rest of society permission to start excluding the gay community more widely again and set us back. It’s just not on. I’m not part of the ‘scene’ and never have been, I live in a small rural community and am very much visible and open as a gay man and am part of an integrated community. I’m fortunate to have rarely experienced homophobia or discrimination, I attribute that to the fact that society has been evolving over the course of my life. I know one thing for sure, I don’t want to identify with a community that asks for equality but doesn’t practice it!

  52. It’s terrible to think that a section of our community is being discriminatory and excluding rather than including. If it continues and grows then I think it will be the undoing of all the work and achievements made so far with equality. To repeat a battle cry of the black community in America in a bygone time: “integration not segregation”.

    If we truly want equality then we have to be inclusive otherwise we give the rest of society permission to start excluding the gay community more widely again and set us back. It’s just not on. I’m not part of the ‘scene’ and never have been, I live in a small rural community and am very much visible and open as a gay man and am part of an integrated community. I’m fortunate to have rarely experienced homophobia or discrimination, I attribute that to the fact that society has been evolving over the course of my life. I know one thing for sure, I don’t want to identify with a community that asks for equality but doesn’t practice it!

    1. Why do you think that “integration” is automatically more desireable than “segregation”? True, the assimilationist attitude is the spirit of the time, but separation is still an option, and probably the better one to prevent cultural suicide. While equal rights are greate, “equality” (= assimilation) is not.

  53. @Keith — you seem to be very upset at the prospect of not being able to go to gay clubs.

    Some argue that some or most people who are homophobic have repressed their own homosexuality. In 1996, a controlled study of 64 heterosexual men (half said they were homophobic by experience, with self-reported orientation) at the University of Georgia found that men who were found to be homophobic (as measured by the Index of Homophobia) were considerably more likely to experience more erectile responses when exposed to homoerotic images than non-homophobic men.

    I mean, you do spend a lot of time on a gay website, and you are demonstrably a homophobe, so statistically, you’re probably gay.

    1. homosexulitis??? Is that really a medical term?

      1. Rudehamster 26 Mar 2012, 11:08pm

        I think I’ve been infected by it. It causes a swelling in the crotch followed by the constant need to swallow.

      2. Rudehamster 26 Mar 2012, 11:11pm

        @Kris :
        ‘homosexulitis??? Is that really a medical term?’

        I think I’ve been infected by it. It causes a swelling in the crotch followed by the constant need to swallow.

        1. sodomy kills! 27 Mar 2012, 10:33am

          Harry wrongly stated
          “@Keith — I think you’re probably only one of a handful of people on this planet that thinks paedophilia is a “mere attraction” and not the same as child abuse.
          You’ve reached a new and foul low.

          My reply
          You have reched a low in retardation. Are you trying now to redefine paedophilia to mean smething other than a mental inclaination (attraction to children) and do yu actually think that paedophilia is illegal? You probably do as you are a prize idiot. Please state the act which criminalizes paedophilia. This should be fun!,./

          1. Rudehamster 30 Mar 2012, 7:03pm

            Your spelling is atrocious.

    2. You suffer from idiotis actually

  54. Go away Keith ! Your mispelt and archaic language give you away. But your IP won’t.

    Sue away, if you can find an example.

  55. All people should be allowed in all places.

    But I propose in some gay venues, straight people could be reasonably if they felt their presence could be construed as unhelpful and intimidating by the gay people in the venue.

    What I’m thinking is that the onus be put on the straight people who are seeking to go into gay clubs, whilst preserving their right to entry.

    To put it another way, I would defend and maintain the right of athiests to attend church, but would also think any athiest worth his salt would not, in the interests of respecting the church members.

    1. I’d bar you from any form of human contact to be honest

    2. Hey, as long as you keep your homophobia out of the gay venues or establishments, then you’re welcome, but if you choose to act homophobic, then you’re going to get kicked out.

    3. Well stop talking about it and do it !

      1. You seem to really hate gay men (your hate is pathetic)…. what do you think of lesbians?

        And I’m not suffering thank you very much, I’m happy I’m homosexual!
        The reason I don’t support multiple partners is I believe love is between two people.

        1. Me too. That’s why I want marriage equality.

    4. FUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKK OFF

    5. @Keith — have you got any reason for saying that what happened at the Chymorvah Hotel was a setup ?

      Or is it just another thing you belief without evidence ?

    6. Second paragraph should have been:

      But I propose in some gay venues, straight people could be reasonably asked if they felt their presence could be construed as unhelpful and intimidating by the gay people in the venue.

  56. Staircase2 25 Mar 2012, 7:29pm

    As far as I’m aware its now illegal for any gay venue to discriminate against straight people too – get legal advice and sue their arse…

    1. Great lets create more animosity with more legal action…

    2. Staircase2 26 Mar 2012, 4:33pm

      There’s a reason people sue in cases of equality law and thats to bring about positive change.

      Highlighting a company’s legal responsibility is a way to educate both them and others about the law they should already know about but are breaking…

  57. This is a difficult one. While it is actually illegal (as far as I am aware anyway) to turn someone away because of their sexuality club/bar owners also have the right to refuse entry and don’t have to give a reason.

    I do believe that door staff should enforce a strict LGBT door policy however discretion is needed when straight people attend with a large group of gay friends.

  58. An old article but the points are well made…as someone who has been bashed in straight clubs it has to work both ways…I wanna go to straight clubs dance with my boyfriend and be affectionate with him and NOT RISK GETTING HURT OR BECOMING A FREAK SHOW!!! if you read your history you will find that there were reasons why we had to find our own SAFE spaces to socialise in. Most towns/cities have large numbers of ‘straight ‘clubs and only a few Gay ones…why do we have to do all the ‘giving way’?? Women are entitled to have women only nights…why can’t we have Gay only clubs?? is it too much to ask that our straight friends would go out with us on the not so busy nights and leave the busy nights to be ‘gay only’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/philip-hensher/please-keep-out-of-gay-bars-and-clubs-646295.html

  59. Being gay is normal, thank you very much.

    I was originally in favor of barring heterosexuals from the bars, but when I thought about it, as long as they aren’t homophobic I don’t see the issue. They also need to know that they are most likely going to be hit on.

    But I think women going to gay bars and men going to lesbian bars should not happen.

    1. Let’s put it this way….. if you’re going to throw a fit about being hit on, you shouldn’t go to a gay/lesbian bar. If a woman goes to a lesbian bar, she better be prepared to be hit on and not be homophobic about it.

      I don’t mind them being there, just as long as it’s not a majority :P I want most women to be available to me.

    2. Alan Flanagan 26 Mar 2012, 4:45pm

      What about a young gay man who only has female friends to go out with? Should he go out alone like so many others, or be allowed to have a night out with his friends?

  60. for those that are concerned about security, why not let them in and then eject them if they start to cause problems and bar them that way your only allowing in ‘safe’ people. (This goes for both straight and gay customers btw)

    1. I had a straight man in a lesbian bar that was “friendly” to others who kept showing up behind me while I was ordering a drink, blowing on the back of my neck and then smirking at me when I glared at him. It happened a number of times (what are the odds on the same man standing exactly behind me in a bar that wasn’t that busy).

      It was vile, horrible and offensive and yet covert enough that I didn’t believe that I would be able to get him bounced. It’s sometimes not as serious as people taking swings at one another – I still felt uncomfortable, powerless, disturbed.

      1. you can get that in ANY bar, why should you ban people who could potentially do something wrong at the expense of the nice people who wouldnt and vice versa why should you let people in just because you don’t expect them to behave in said way.

  61. Seriously, Mr. Homophobe needs to get a life. If you don’t like homosexuals/bisexuals, don’t come to Pink News. I don’t like transgenderism (I’m far less hostile than you btw), so I don’t go to transgender websites. Get a life. SMH.

  62. Great to be able to be in a gay atmosphere and pull.

    Naive to fill the few gay spots with straights who have the whole world in which to ‘interact’ and pull !

  63. Rachel Haytread 25 Mar 2012, 8:54pm

    On Wednesday I went to the gay night at a local pub. I was chatted up and bought drinks by three straight customers who persisted in trying to get into my knickers regardless of the fact I had told them I was gay. Go figure…

    I think the only conclusion one can arrive at is that it’s a question of balance. We have always taken our straight friends to our venues, after all they deserve an occasional treat and to see how much more fun we have than they in their own clubs and bars.

    Also, it can be good fun watching them and their quaint ways and inability to dance

    But seriously,straights have always wanted our company, the presence of some straights in our venues is to be welcomed as long as they don’t start to outnumber us. And remember they choose our company, they are our friends and supporters and that can’t be bad.

  64. Antaine O'Labhradha 25 Mar 2012, 9:19pm

    It’s quite simple. If we deny the equality to straight people that we demand from them, we are hypocrites and undermine our own claim to equality.

  65. I spent many a happy evening in the local gay pub at uni despite being as straight as they come. I went with straight and gay friends. Never bothered by anyone. Just a good night with cheap drink

  66. This issue is a world wide problem.

    We have gone from OPPRESSION, LIBERISATION and now REPRESSSION.

    We have a right to our own space. Free of women. Just discrimination against us gay men, We are gay, not straight.

    There are a lot of predatory women in the gay gay communities now trying to entrap us into straight marriages and use us as sperm donors.

    Gay rights has ruined our lives.

  67. discrimination test – reverse the question, if it is wrong then it’s discrimination. Gay/St8, black/white man/woman it don’t matter.

  68. What about those gay venues, and there’s a fair few of them in London & other European cities, which facilitate sex on the premises? You can’t really allow straight people in, esp. if they have sex spilling over everywhere. Before we know it, this type of venue would be non-existent due to clientele not wishing to have sex with straight men & women watching & also inevitable complaints from prudes about what goes on in the premises. Of course, some might think the closure of such venues is desirable, but doesn’t that limit choice on the scene?

    1. Sounds like bringing straight people in would be a civilising move… :-p

      Though if they were told at the door it was a sex club I think they’d probably back away… plus male only members clubs are legal.

  69. I’m queer and I love diversity in a club so long as the people are there to embrace the entire spectrum of the rainbow and have fun. Gawking, not thank you.
    My favorite clubbing experience was in a bar called The Stud (now gone) in San Francisco where you never knew who or what was going to walk through the door, straight, gay, bi, trannies and even a guy who always dressed up as Santa Claus.
    The bar tenders always told the straight boys that if they were uncomfortable getting their butts pinched by gay boys, this was not the place for them. And pinch we did to wean out “the undesirables”.
    Discrimination based on sexual preference is just plain wrong. What’s next, counting the number of tops and bottoms? PLEASE!

  70. Fine…and watch the response when we do the same in your so-called normal bar. But then again, you’re just a TROLL and there’s no point engaging a troll. As Mark Twain once said, “There’s no point in trying to teach a pig to sing. It just frustrates you and annoys the pig.”

  71. We’ve been discriminated against enough. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 3:32pm

      So how come when places end up overrun with straight people it is Us as a community that still ends up being discriminated against?

  72. Around 10-20% of the population has attraction to the same gender. Sure it’s not the majority, but neither is being left handed,having purple eyes, being Hispanic, or a man being over 6’4″.

    What I’m saying is there’s nothing wrong with it.

    1. There’s no way to know for sure, because
      1. Some bisexuals choose to identify as homosexual
      2. A lot of people are in denial about their bisexuality and homosexuality

      It’s said that 10% of the population is bisexual and 5% are homosexual. Approximately 800000 people out of 7000000000 are Maori, but you don’t hate them, right? Who cares how many of us there are? While it’s not the majority, it’s still normal because it’s natural.

  73. If you barred straight people from my local gay pub, you’d be banning the landlord and all the bar staff, as well as a quarter of the regulars. On Sunday nights and weeknights, it’s predominantly straight. The unfortunate truth is that, in an area like this, if you ban straights the pub will end up closing.

  74. I do outreach work on the scene and have witnessed the suburban/out of London scene decline significantly in quantity in the last seven years. There are clearly still some safety/culture concerns that mean some of us want to have all-gay clubs/bars. But isn’t this nostalgia for sex-charged cruisy clubs of decades ago. Hard to say, but I’m 29 and I don’t hanker for that, and I don’t see many 18-25 year olds in gay venues now – they’re in mixed venues and having a good time. Perhaps they go to clubs to have a nice time with their mixture of mates and dance. Revolutionary! There will probably be a place for a few cruisy gay clubs that cater to quite specific crowds as can be seen in London but I reckon a ‘general purpose gay pub’ does not float younger people’s boats any more.

    1. Even in London the number of gay venues has declined dramatically in recent years because gay people visit them less frequently and spend more time in mixed venues. When I moved to London 15 years ago every neighbourhood has its own local gay pub, some has two or three. No new local gay pubs ever appear and only a few of the old ones are left.There are a few scattered about but it is only really Vauxhall and Soho where gay venues remain in any number, plus a few in East London but the East London scene has always been much more mixed anyway so the distinctions are more blurred there. I feel some nostalgia for those old days when you could pitch up anywhere and go and find your community, but it is still a good thing that greater acceptance of gay people means less demand for gay venues.

    2. Well london is hardly the same as the sole gay venue that most smaller towns in this country have- What may work there (or Manc or Brighton) wouldnt work in Prestatyn or Barnsley etc. I dare you to go out with a boyfriend in 95% of the straight bars/clubs near me and not spend the night avoiding trouble!

  75. I like meeting straight men in gay clubs. Why assume that it’s OK to have straight women but not straight men. I don’t go to gay clubs to pick men up because I’m already in a relationship, but it’s nice to meet new people and I’ve got straight male friends that I’ve met in gay clubs. There are plenty of straight men with gay mates who are happy to go out to gay venues when it’s their mate’s choice of night out. Not all straight men are oafs!

  76. There’s no way to no for sure, as a lot of gay and bisexual people are in the closet or chose to identify as straight even though they’re not

    Say, the LGB population is 5% (even though it’s likely more), it still doesn’t matter
    1. We never chose to be homosexual or bisexual
    2. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual or bisexual
    3. Just because we are a minority doesn’t mean we don’t deserve rights. 0.0001% of the population is Maori, but they still deserve rights.

    1. steffi lee 26 Mar 2012, 8:55am

      But you still can’t accept trans people?
      Who are less well served by society than any other minority whatsoever and are regularly murdered just for daring to exist.

    2. The bible never mentioned Homosexuality ,it was man that added it .

      It’s funny talking about adding and taking things away = Minus …..if you want to go by the original bible ,it was in favour of Slavary …..yet they took it away by man= Minus which means taking it away .

      Yet originally Homosexuality was never mentioned ,man decided it was bad ,so they decided to add to it .

      1. excement on the penis. 26 Mar 2012, 10:10am

        No, It dos not use the word homosexuality since it was written in Hebrew mostly and then Greek It does not mention the word paedophilia either so that must be ok?

        1. What good is the bible if things can get added or taken away .

          It doesn’t leave much strength to it’s meaning

          1. What meaning? Its historical interest resides in what you holy joes deny – that it is full of incoherence and divergence.
            And as far as ‘adding and taking away’ goes, that was going on from the earliest times. The RC Church itself didn’t close the Canon officially until the Council of Trent in the 16th century. In the Church in general there was no (informal) consensus until the 9th century.

          2. @ riondo

            That’s what I’m trying to say ,maybe it’s my way of writhing words why people are getting confused with me .

            I said man added Homosexuality as a bad thing ,same way in the bible when slavery got taken off in the Bible …..the bible isn’t strong ,it’s full of contradictions ,yet many idiots even to this day are still believing ….if the bible let people learn more out of their own meaning ,I would respect the bible ,but it’s there to brainwash people ….another words believe what we tell you ,if you doubt then you are turning away from god etc…..

        2. And nowhere in the Bible are science or democracy mentioned either – so they must be bad.
          Usual lousy argument from a Bible-basher.

          1. excement on the penis. 26 Mar 2012, 11:34am

            I am not the one arguing that because it is not mentioned in the bible it must be ok,ergo homosexuality, am I? You should have addressed your post to the poster jbd who made the assertion a few posts above, dumb homosexualite!

          2. James Hillman 26 Mar 2012, 11:45am

            ban his haircut it’s hideous!!!

          3. You are as usual pretty dense, KEITH. The point is that all manner of things are not mentioned in the Bible. Whether they are judged to be good or bad should have nothing to do with whether or not they appear in your holy book. Thus paedophilia is bad because of the abuse of power and exploitation of vulnerability involved. Biblical omission irrelevant. Slavery is bad because no-one should have power of life and death and absolute ownership of a human being. Biblical approval of the institution is both irrelevant and an indication of the book’s barbaric origins. Try to think outside of your superstitious and benighted box.

          4. excement on the penis. 26 Mar 2012, 12:57pm

            “The point is that all manner of things are not mentioned in the Bible. Whether they are judged to be good or bad should have nothing to do with whether or not they appear in your holy book”

            Which is exactly what I am saying thicko! just because homosexuality as a word is not mentioned in the bible, it does not mean it is not wrong…DUH!!!!
            The poster supposed that whatever is not mentioned in the bible as wrong must not be wrong. You have shown yourself that just because the bible does not mention a certain practice does not mean it is not wrong.Therefore if we say that the bible does not mention homosexuality or paedophilia should not be conclued that homosexuality are not not wrong,
            You say “Thus paedophilia is bad because of the abuse of power and exploitation of vulnerability involve” yet you are referring to child abuse whereas I refer to padophilia (a mere attraction) . Is this attraction wrong? If so on what grounds? I condemn homosexuality on those same grounds

          5. PN – Get rid of this piece if filth please. I feel soiled somehow.

          6. You said nothing of the sort. It is plain from all your posts that you condemn what you dislike by appealing to ‘Biblical authority’ and you explicitly claim that homosexuality is to be judged on that basis, whether or not a term like ‘homosexuality’ is used. This therefore does not add up to a belief that moral judgements may be made independently of the Bible. I personally do not give a stuff what the Bible says except as a source of historical and cultural interest, and I consider actions, not feelings, to be per se morally significant. But back to you – is slavery right or wrong? Since the Bible not only ‘mentions it’, but is either indifferent or approving of it? Surely you must share these positions? As a Bible-believing Christian?

          7. Paddyswurds 26 Mar 2012, 2:36pm

            PinkNews please please do something about Keith. You will end up with noone but keith if you don’t.
            And while you are at it do something about the software the handles comments. Having to expand after every comment is tedious.

          8. Here here ! On all counts.

          9. He’s not a Christian apparently. Just believes in what the Bible teaches. At least that’s what he told me before. Not realy sure how that makes sense but that sums him up for me to be honest

          10. It makes no sense at all, since self-defining ‘Christians’ gathered this motley bunch of writings together and called it ‘scripture’ or the ‘Bible’ in the first place. He thus repudiates the identity of the people who gave him the book whose authority he claims. Barmy, basically.

          11. padophilia (i guess you referring to pedophilia) is always a child abuse.

            sexual orientation (homosexuality) and sexual deviation (pedophilia) are 2 different things, with latter not consigned to one specific sexuality

          12. Do not feed the pathetic troll closet case

          13. This makes no sense ! It is absolute garbage !

            You’ve written homosexuality are not not wrong !

            What does that even mean ? You’ve gone into self-parody mode again Keith !

            It seems to me that people who “condemn homosexuality” and oppose LGBT rights are the inarticulate and of low intelligence:

            http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

            and I suggest you are a prime example Keith.

          14. @Keith — I think you’re probably only one of a handful of people on this planet that thinks paedophilia is a “mere attraction” and not the same as child abuse.

            You’ve reached a new and foul low.

          15. Get a life and stop talking drivel about an incoherent old text from the Eastern Mediterranean. It’s never too late.

      2. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 12:19pm

        Exactly jbd… any educated person can see that it’s just a shame the uneducated ones can’t!

      3. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 12:19pm

        Exactly jbd… any educated person can see that it’s just a shame the uneducated ones can’t!!!

    3. Really? I have two boy dogs, I often see them going for it in the backyard. Homosexuality is not at all uncommon in the animal kingdom. As for your precious bible do you really believe every single word written by men 2000 years ago who thought the world was still flat and that cows were actually the firsts ‘beasts to roam the earth’ (see page one of the old testament). Truly, this bible thumping view of sexuality is beyond redundant. Take off the blinkers and become a free thinker instead of believing in a pack of lies written in the middle east 2000 years ago.

    4. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 12:17pm

      Yawn… your boring me now!

  77. @Keith — you’re getting confused. Normal does not mean common.

    For example, lightening in this country is not common, but it is normal.

    As you are struggling with words a bit, perhaps a video will help:

    http://www.youtube.ug/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM

  78. Has Keith gone again ?

    Why does he even bother ?

  79. people should be aloud to go wherever they want, gay or straight.

    you guys always say being gay is the same as being black, white etc. I agree with this also.

    However it would be sick to turn someone away from a club that plays “white chart music” because that person is black. Same appiles here.

  80. I completely understand the comments being made here by people who have either had bad experiences or wish to avoid them. Particularly with straight males in LGBT venues. I do however, wish to draw back on the support a dear friend of mine needed when he started to openly identify as a gay male. Our peer group very much consisted of straight people and he didn’t know where to begin finding people he could identify with and was terrified of the prospect of seeking it alone. For him, it was the support of the 4 or 5 “voyeuristic” straight girls walking into the club with him that gave him the strength to embark on his journey of self discovery.
    Don’t get me wrong, we’ve all seen the drunk “friends of” office girls making nuissances of themselves in any venue. But in my experience all venues that serve alcohol are going to have silliness from time to time, regardless of the sexual orientation of those in attendance.

  81. Andrew Quinn 26 Mar 2012, 2:43am

    If we are going to shout from the rooftop about our right to marry and our right for this and that what right do we have to be hypocritical and stop people coming into gay clubs and bars. I think we have to allow them in if they are civil and courteous like anyone else. If anyone acts in a drunken boorish manner they should be ejected gay or not and i shouldn’t have to be a mathematician to add a comment

  82. For centuries, Gays have had to act straight, deny themselves under fear of abuse, or they are forced to visit their own clubs in dark alleys like city rats. Finally, Gays are being accepted and now that we have our own places to party, but we can’t enjoy the uniqueness of it because we must share. Over thousands of years straight people had their clubs, never sharing it with Gays, and we finally get one after all of the years of fighting and bleeding, and we have to share it with them. It’s like having a big brother with tons of toys and he never had to share it in the past, but we get just 1 toy and now we have to share it. There was never a time when we had just our place, a safe place to be ourselves. That is why we feel like we’re getting a bad deal.
    Just as soon as we get something good, the straight people make a law that says we must share. It really sucks when the perpetrators are the ones making the laws because they feel like they are being victimized by the minority.

  83. Gays are more likely to kill themselves, more likely to die lonely, and are treated as second class citizens by law, and now you people worry about the rights of straight people? Why don’t you join the fascists – the EDL? They always claim that straight white men are the most oppressed. Treating everyone the same is not equality, because this world doesn’t provide an equal playing field. That’s why we have affirmative actions such as women’s space on campus, extra funding to help minorities, etc.

  84. Make all gay clubs members only clubs with membership required at least 24 hours before entry and each member will then be responsible for their guests.
    Should they bring rowdy straights in to the club then they lose their membership.
    To ban straight people outright is no different to banning gay people from straight venue’s and is not acceptable.
    It is discrimination no matter how you try and justify it.

    1. i dont think i should police my friends

      1. If you vouch for them on entry as a club member then you should. Any members club that allow members to bring guests will all hold the member partly responsible should their guest cause trouble. That’s the way it works.
        If you feel you need to ‘police’ your friends then perhaps you should chose them more carefully.

        1. no, your proposed requirements would expect me to police my friends. Anyone should be welcomed and allowed in without being vouch for.

          ‘…If you feel you need to ‘police’ your friends then perhaps you should chose them more carefully…’

          what a nonstarter

  85. of course if straight people go to gay bar for a laugh or stag/hen do it can be annoying, but that is the price we have to pay if we want to live in the world of equality. i have some straight friends who go to heaven and then complain about nude men show, probably not comfortable with theirs girlfriends enjoying big packages on the show lol

  86. This is a tough one, I understand both sides here ( I was a great flapping Mary as a youth and our “one” local gay bar had the occasional straight crew come in and be violent) but I do err on the side of “gay bar” for lgbt. Maybe if we go down this road then we open up a large can of worms…… eg, are male voice choirs expected to accept female members?

  87. If every culture and society you will find (sadly often in larger numbers than one might expect) people that are iggnorant and narrow minded thorugh either uneducated biggoted upbringings / soical condtioning or their own personal insecurity who will act in a hostile manner to conceots they do not understand. However, if gay society does not allow social interaction between differant sexulalities they become just as bad bad as them.
    There should be no discrimatory issues with gays going to straight clubs or vice versa. You’re out in clubs to enjoy yoursleves which everyone should be able to do harmoniously regardless of sexual orientation. Yes I have been assulted by common uneducated plebs who were intimadated by me being gay, but I do prfer a group with mixed sexualities. It shouldn’t matter if your gay or sstraight, Chinese or Australian, we are all humans,so let’s party together as we ALL just might learn something we were too blind to see before!

    1. ‘…There should be no discrimatory issues with gays going to straight clubs or vice versa…’

      the truth that gay people in straight bars generally are more restrained in intimate behavior then straights in gay bars

  88. Everyone can moan about this but there will not be gay clubs if this changed. Look what happened to Manchesters gay scene because its been invaded by straight people who are not always tolerant or friendly. It seems unfair but people would moan even more if gay clubs were full of straight men trying to pick up hen night girls

    1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 12:13pm

      Good comment Paul!

  89. Straight people should not be allowed into queer establishments. It’s high time we fought against heterosexuals. Too long have they ruled. Too long have queer men and women pussy-footed around heterosexuals opinions and thoughts, letting them suck on their gay tit milk.

    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    FIGHT BACK.

    Remember Stonewall? REMEBER!

    Fight the heterosexuals.

    Viva La Anarcho-queers!

  90. I applaud you for writing this. The law and everything else aside, I would think that if straight people were happy and comfortable in a gay club then clearly they are not homophobic and are probably part of the ‘gay marriage cheer squad’. I am one such individual. In a time where gay youth are still taking their own lives any kind of acceptance and tolerance from all parts of the community should be welcomed. Why would anyone want to turn away people who only see equality and not just sexuality? Isn’t that what gay activists have been fighting for?

  91. I think it’s too simplistic to do a ‘shoe on the other foot’ comparison. Heterosexuals arent a minority.

    Gay clubs have a finite space and with 95% of the population being straight the gay contingency could get squeezed out very quickly if a lot of straights want to visit gay clubs.

    But it’s a tough one that’s for sure. Especially if youre not the sort of gay person who exclusively has gay friends.

  92. Do it on a signing in basis, if your with someone gay then your obviously not homophobic or just there for a freak show.

    So just make straight people get signed in if they want to come in

    1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 12:15pm

      Good comment and makes sense. Maybe this is the way forward.

  93. Exclusion on grounds of sexuality per se is illegal but also not the way to approach it. Experienced doorstaff can (or claim to be able to) spot potential trouble-makers and have a responsibility to keep them out – gaggles of straight girls and boys are obvious candidates. Gay and lesbian punters with a few homofriendly straight friends are a different question.

  94. On the face of it, excluding hetero people from lgb venues is discrimination; again imagine the uproar if there were a “whites-only” venue. However, there is more of a need to provide a safe environment for lgb clubbers, for reasons of safety and security. There’s also those running the businesses looking out for their own interests – if they wish to provide entertainment for an lgb audience, this tends to mean an lgb majority/exclusive policy on entry. If this means making venues “members only” sort of the way XXL does then that’s the policy that has to be employed.

    There is merit in keeping some segregation in venues – whilst not explicit, there are plenty of venues the length and breadth of the country which are pretty single-market exclusive by which I mean they cater for a particular clientele by the way they set up and advertise themselves.

  95. If every gay guy took 5 straight girls with him into a gay club then gay clubs everywhere would basically just be filled with straight girls. Since you were out with a group of straight girls why didn’t you just go to a straight club?. There’s always a great mix of gay and straight people in gay venues and I personally like this but there is a limit and gay venues are there for gay/bi/transgeneder people and they don’t really want groups of straight girls filling up our venues.

  96. Kevin Lunny 26 Mar 2012, 12:07pm

    This should not even be a discussion in my view. It is immoral to even consider blocking someone from a car or club on the grounds of their sexuality. it’s a question of human rights! Considering that the LGBT people still do not have equal human rights in the UK, we can not campaign for things such as equal marriage rights and yet discriminate in our pubs and clubs against the straight community, many of whom are our allies.

  97. GingerlyColors 26 Mar 2012, 12:18pm

    I believe in treating people the way you want them to treat you and as I do not wish to be barred from st8 pubs and clubs I do not see why we should bar st8 people from gay establishments. I would like to see integration between our communities. Why do some people want segregation? In South Africa they used to have a word for it.

  98. I think it’s important to have safe ‘Gay’ spaces, but ‘gay’ is not a category unto itself. Yes, homophobes need keeping out, but earlier in my life, on many occasions I was myself denied access to certain clubs (G-A-Y’s mysterious ‘members only’ policy invoked numerous times), just because I didn’t look ‘gay’ or ‘male’ enough, and I know a few people who’ve had the same trouble repeatedly at the Dalston Superstore. W hen you’re keeping people out because they don’t ‘look gay enough’ you’re perpetuating a dangerous homogenization within the community, and further perpetuating the negative stereotypes surrounding it.

  99. Dear PN. Please close down the comments forums until you have dealt with Keith.

    It really is becoming a disgrace.

  100. excement on the penis. 26 Mar 2012, 1:06pm

    Really? I have two boy dogs, I often see them going for it in the backyard. Homosexuality is not at all uncommon in the animal kingdom. As for your precious bible do you really believe every single word written by men 2000 years ago who thought the world was still flat and that cows were actually the firsts ‘beasts to roam the earth’ (see page one of the old testament). Truly, this bible thumping view of sexuality is beyond redundant. Take off the blinkers and become a free thinker instead of believing in a pack of lies written in the middle east 2000 years ago.

    My reply.
    We are superior highe moralr beings than animals which is why we have laws against murder. Lions don’t myurder other, they kill each other. They do no have the same moral accountability as humans.
    If you are taking your moral cue from nature, why not bite the head off your partner after mating like the praying mantis?
    Actuall homosexual animals are a myth created by homosexualites to justify their behaviour.

    1. your views with regards to homosexuality are redundant since UN charter and major health organizations around the world state that homosexuality is a normal sexual orientation seen in humans and animals. not sure why you still bother with your outdated views?

      1. Jock S. Trap 26 Mar 2012, 3:35pm

        Here! Here! Kane!!!!

  101. This is something that I blogged about last year, due to similar experiences I have had in Manchester (http://mikedalgarno.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/equality-it-works-both-ways/)

  102. john Duffy 26 Mar 2012, 2:10pm

    It is counter constructive to the gay rights movement to endorse any form of discrimination, and the gay community as a whole, including the commercial scene should have sense and open it’s doors to everyone with out passing a check list.

  103. The Bible is a made up book of fairy tales designed to manipulate and brainwash you, so it doesn’t matter what that evil book says,

  104. Paddyswurds 26 Mar 2012, 2:33pm

    Paedophilia isn’t mentioned in the buybul because it is stuffed full of approval for childabuse .Marrying girls as young as eight off and offering ones daughters to be raped in Sodom and on and on….. The buybul is an evil book compiled from oral tradition of ignorant fearful desert herdsmen thousands of years ago and rewritten by a despotic English king, James the second, to suit his own ends

  105. Bar ALL straight people from club. Let us queers enjoy our crumbs in the corner. Queers unite and FIGHT against straight people – use force if necessary! Remember our comrades from Stonewall – fight back! Too long have the straight people suckled on the queer milk from our queer tits. Too long. Viva La Anarcho-queers!

  106. Let’s distance ourselves even further from society!

    The “Prides” are bad enough.

  107. I persopnally want to be able to go into a gay bar/club with friends and/or family who are straight. My sister is Bi, but is engaged to a guy! I don’t see why we can’t be allowed to go into a gay bar just because one of us is straight.

    We are not turned away from other bars that are predominantly straight. It’s discrimination at the end of the day.

    I admit if the group is 100% straight I may have a problem because I would be wondering why they’re in a gay bar. But if it’s a mixed group, I don’t have a problem. But still, given it’s descrimination I cannot see how you can get away with turning away even 100% straight group :/

  108. Alan Flanagan 26 Mar 2012, 4:43pm

    This entire debate is ridiculous. It’s discriminatory and harmful, and if you’re willing to stand by while your friends are discriminated against by any bar then you should be ashamed.

    If you wish to divide gay people from straight people, go right ahead and do this. If you want to exclude young gay people who may only have straight friends to go out with, go ahead. If you want to further ghetto-ise the gay community and minimise our interaction with the rest of society, go ahead.

    I hope these venues are prosecuted until they’re shaken out of their stupidity.

  109. This is an issue close to my heart – I have noticed in my local city the “gay club” becoming more of a venue for straight people now.

    The ratio of people in the club has swung dramatically toward straight people since I started going there 5 years ago, and now, many of my friends refuse to go to the club on the basis that there is NOT ENOUGH gay people attending there – I certainly don’t feel safe attempting to make a move on someone I find attractive because there is a very good chance they will be straight.

    The atmosphere as a result in the club is now not the same, as the LGBT community deserts it in droves. I know far many more people who would prefer to end their night at 2/3am when the free-entry bars close, because they have a primarily LGBT clientele – the nightclub is the only space within the gay scene where straight people do attend in greater numbers, so the LGBT community tends to stay in the bars rather than attend the club.

  110. Fag hags have destroyed the harder gay clubs. The Eagle in Vauxhall was once a great place on a Saturday night for guys but not anymore. Likewise the Joiners Arms is now wedged with the trendies and their fag hags.

  111. F@G hags have ruined the harder all gay clubs, the Eagle in Vauxhall and the Joiners Arms are now wedged with the trendy guys and their hags brigade.

  112. Dan Filson 26 Mar 2012, 7:28pm

    We want equality before the law, so no ifs and no buts, that means there must be no discrimination at the club doors. The door staff should only refuse entry if they have reasonable cause to believe that the persons seeking admission will disrupt or otherwise annoy the other customers. I have seen clubs change their character by an excess of straight gay-friendly attendees but .on the whole that’s rare

  113. Would it be OK for a gay person to be excluded from a “straight only” club?

  114. Wouldn’t that be “statutory rape”? Being a person who wants to rape another person isn’t a crime. Raping another person is.

  115. “.. whether it’s right for gay clubs to exclude straight people ..”
    Answer; NO!

  116. Scott of Sydney 27 Mar 2012, 12:28am

    Make it all sexualities are welcome. However also make it a requirement for entry that ou must deep tongue kiss a same sex person on the door. Hazard pay to be provided. That would weed out the hate mongers and homophobic.

  117. a few months ago a group of us went to london for a night out, we planned to end the night in a popular gay establishment, there were 12 of us and at first they refused us entry coz our group was too big, then we was allowed in minus our 2 straight friends.
    i have many straight friends and even family members who would much rather have a night out in a gay establishment because they love the friendliness and the athmosphere there.
    i think it is wrong to discrimanate against ppl because they are not a certain way
    GAY,LESBIAN,BI,TRANS,STRAIGHT we are all ppl at the end of the day and to discriminate againtst each other is just gonna make living in society harder for us all

  118. I’m a gay man with predominantly straight friends. I personally would choose not to go clubbing alone. So should I not feel welcome in gay clubs just because my friends are straight? Or should I just go clubbing alone? No. Personally, I hardly ever go to gay clubs for reasons such as these. I feel in this day in age, people my age (late teens, early 20s) just want to hang out with their friends and dance, regardless of the labeling of the club. I feel by barring straight people completely, you’re also banning gay people, like me who don’t have gay friends and don’t feel comfortable going out alone. Most clubs I visit, are ‘straight’ clubs. If someone turned round to me and said I couldn’t get in because I was gay. I’d be outraged and the same should be the other way round. No one should be discriminated against.

    1. I’m also a gay man with predominantly straight friends, BUT UNLIKE YOU, I don’t think this is something to show off. You think you are “first class” gay men by hanging out with straight people all the time? Pathetic and gross deep rooted internalised homophobia.

    2. But your straight friends that will go to a gay bar would already know what is or is not allowed.

      So I would think the band is useless, since my straight friends would ask if someone is or isn’t attracted to them because of gay/straight issues.

  119. Harry wrongly stated
    “@Keith — I think you’re probably only one of a handful of people on this planet that thinks paedophilia is a “mere attraction” and not the same as child abuse.
    You’ve reached a new and foul low.

    My reply
    You have reched a low in retardation. Are you trying now to redefine paedophilia to mean smething other than a mental inclaination (attraction to children) and do yu actually think that paedophilia is illegal? You probably do as you are a prize idiot. Please state the act which criminalizes paedophilia. This should be fun!

  120. Harry wrongly stated
    “@Keith — I think you’re probably only one of a handful of people on this planet that thinks paedophilia is a “mere attraction” and not the same as child abuse.
    You’ve reached a new and foul low.

    My reply
    You have reched a low in retardation. Are you trying now to redefine paedophilia to mean smething other than a mental inclaination (attraction to children) and do yu actually think that paedophilia is illegal? You probably do as you are a prize idiot. Please state the act which criminalizes paedophilia. This should be fun!..

  121. sodomy kills! 27 Mar 2012, 10:32am

    Harry wrongly stated
    “@Keith — I think you’re probably only one of a handful of people on this planet that thinks paedophilia is a “mere attraction” and not the same as child abuse.
    You’ve reached a new and foul low.

    My reply
    You have reched a low in retardation. Are you trying now to redefine paedophilia to mean smething other than a mental inclaination (attraction to children) and do yu actually think that paedophilia is illegal? You probably do as you are a prize idiot. Please state the act which criminalizes paedophilia. This should be fun!

  122. sodomy kills! 27 Mar 2012, 10:32am

    Harry wrongly stated
    “@Keith — I think you’re probably only one of a handful of people on this planet that thinks paedophilia is a “mere attraction” and not the same as child abuse.
    You’ve reached a new and foul low.

    My reply
    You have reched a low in retardation. Are you trying now to redefine paedophilia to mean smething other than a mental inclaination (attraction to children) and do yu actually think that paedophilia is illegal? You probably do as you are a prize idiot. Please state the act which criminalizes paedophilia. This should be fun!,,,,,

  123. Matt Brown 27 Mar 2012, 3:18pm

    Some friends of mine went to a gay club in Brighton back in 1996 1 of them is straight and the other 3 being Lesbians even though i wasnt with them at the time and i am straight.Anyway they got in this club fine with out any problems and we have a gay club in my home town of Chelmsford in Essex called Smiths and we were with the same girls on this occasion and everything was fine but my mate and i did leave after a while

  124. Can we gte seperate drinking fountains and different voting rights too?

    Segregation ftw! Idiots.

  125. it’s a double standard. our main goal is to get to equality. if we can’t be open and equal towards others, if we don’t stop discriminating others, then i don’t know how we could ever ask for the same values.

  126. I fully agree with Ethan. We should stop all exclusion and segregation. Barring straight friends perpetuates this. It is an own-goal and it needs to end.

  127. I had to take this dick off facebook anyway.

    He’s self obsessed and vein beyond belief. It wouldn’t suprise me if this didn’t happen like he says it did.

  128. I dont actually care what the law says, a gay club should be predominantly gay. We all know that straight girls love the scene as they dont get hit on but at I have had far too many nights out ruined by a drunk girl saying Iam a waste and that she has the perfect friend for me to date! I would never complain about a straight couple kissing, but I have been kicked out of a straight bar for kissing a bloke and I have was also been refused entry from a straight bar as I looked to gay.

    1. I think the law should be changed. Formal legal equality is not real equality. Gays are an oppressed group, so positive actions should apply to address the REAL inequalities such as what you describe.

  129. NearlyMaria 28 Mar 2012, 9:09am

    The thread is becoming too long and complicated to read the whole thing, but let me just add my two cents:

    1. I wholeheartedly agree that most gay clubs(unless purely catering for one end of the gender spectrum) should not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation:

    a) People will be scrutinized by their gender expression – do we really want all men who like men to look the same, and women who like women to look the same? It’s an image issue, more than anything – you get stopped at the door for not looking gay or lesbian enough.

    b) You’re excluding a large part of the LGBTQ community – unless you’re a proponent of only the L and the G of the acronym. It’s difficult enough as it is for trans* and bi folk, should they really be excluded from gay venues?

    2. Safe space issues – doormen/venue managers should always be erring on the safe side when it comes to their customers. Overly drunk and violent people should be turned away on those grounds.

  130. Bipolar Bear 29 Mar 2012, 6:03pm

    “I must add that when I find a supposedly gay venue full of stags and hen dos (which happens often) I feel cheated out of a good night out, I may as well have gone to Wetherspoons!”

    This is the very reason that many gay venues control the entry of patrons. And it’s not all gay venues. For example in Auckland, New Zealand, we have several gay nightclubs that are a free-for-all (as it were), but the bear bar is a gay men’s bar, advertised as such, and it is a very small space.

    We should be allowed our own spaces, for reasons of safety, and bonding in a society where we are a permanent minority.

    It’s no different than women’s-only gyms.

  131. I think it depends on why those people are there. I am straight and sometimes go to gay bars/clubs when I go with gay friends. In that situation I think it’s acceptable because I want to enjoy a night out with friends and the want to be somewhere they feel comfortable. However, I have known straight woman who have gone in a group with other straight woman just so they can leer at the guys and get p**sed. I think that is not acceptable. So, if straight people go and they are going to be respectful of the other people there, then fine. If they aren’t then they shouldn’t be allowed in. In this particular case it seems these woman just wanted to enjoy a night out with a friend who is gay and I think the club was wrong to refuse them entry.

  132. christopher 2 Apr 2012, 3:27pm

    As the original post stated, we should not bar or ban gay or straight from the others establishments. We will never learn to set aside prejudice of we our selves hold that same prejudices against others. To be honest, in america, gay men are as hateful if not more so then the average religious zealot. We need to change our selves if we truly want equality in all things.

    but we also have to accept that straight and gay are not the person, but only a part of them. We a-fix labels and and classify things in neat lil boxes. till we learn to quit setting limits for our selves, we can not have true equality.

  133. I thought I knew what I thought coming in but after reading some of these comments I’m not sure. Ideally, no one should be excluded from anything, in a legal sense it’s prohibited, but there are some pretty awful people in this world. I was once dancing at a straight night and a guy thought I was coming onto him and started looking at me in a very frightening violence will ensue kind of way. I wasn’t of course but some people look for any excuse to assault gay people. I don’t really know what the answer is, maybe filling a gay club with straight people is unfair, maybe gay people do need clubs where they can exclude others since we’re a minority. But until it’s law, and to be honest I don’t want to see a day when gay people of all people (cos let’s face it guys and gals, we’re the kindest, most understanding, inclusive and accepting people on the face of the planet. It’s true, we all know it :P) let fear and differences come between us and the ideal of freedom.

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