The tweets and comments entered in to record during testimony led the jury to believe that he did have an issue with Tyler Clementi’s sexuality. Of course he will claim otherwise, I don’t think that he has been sentenced yet and is grubbing around for mitigation. As for the suicide – proving a causal link beyond a reasonable doubt would be difficult. But if you ask the question – Would Tyler Clementi have jumped from the bridge on that day and that time if Ravi had not done what he did? I know my answer to that question.
Well said (as usual), Valksy.
Thanks, but I’m sure I’ll lose my temper and bite at some point during the thread though…
Suicide by anyone is not a matter for trolls, when it is a young man of our global community, it is especially inappropriate. And yet because they are depraved or brain damaged enough that they will show up any way.
Suicide really is not a subject for lay opinion. Professional opinions will vary. There is no way that the prosecutor was going to beat the “reasonable doubt” evidentiary standard. I wish they had thrown the book at him because, in our hearts and souls, I think we all know the truth.
Whatever your opinion, I would point out that the case is far more nuanced than the way it was originally reported, and would recommend reading the exhaustive New Yorker report detailing exactly what happened:
It’s less cut and dry than the way it was sold to the press, as if Ravi had organised an event to come watch Clementi have sex in order to out him – for one, Clementi was already out, and besides that the contact Ravi made with others to spread word was limited at best.
Is what he did wrong? Of course. But had Clementi not committed suicide it would have never been a major thing – a cause of consternation, yes, and perhaps a legal matter, but not the cries of murder that many people are jumping to.
It’s a fact that Ravi did something wrong and stupid, as many young people do. But to lay Clementi’s death entirely at his door is not only incorrect but does injustice to the intricacies of depression and suicide.
Ravi is an 18 year old man, to try and excuse him based on his age is to deny justice to the victims of young criminals. Do you really want to say that 18 year olds are not capable of knowing right from wrong? Because secretly filming someone being sexual and inviting people to view (his intent, even if it had not worked out that way) is patently bloody wrong.
Ravi was neither charged with, nor convicted of, a crime with regards to the actual suicide. What he did with the webcam is a crime no matter what the age, gender or sexuality – a bias charge was levied because it was believed that he would not have done it if Clementi had been straight.
Tampering with evidence and witnesses after the fact is a serious matter. I suspect that this will factor largely in whatever sentence is levied upon him.
I suppose, in your mind, it was just a coincidence that he jumped when he did? Not weeks before? Not when he was coming to terms being out? That moment. Why.
Yep read it and it would seem that he had all the tools for making Clementi’s life a misery and it was pretty much an accident waiting to happen. I’m sure if he hadn’t killed himself he would have been in for a tormented college time full of bullying and humiliation.
the family were hurt by this mans actions, he even tampered with things to try and make it look like he was not the bad guy, now when he has been found guilty, he wants to say he has no problem withj gay people, if he is not punished, he will think it is ok to hurt people. and others will think the same, but lets be clear, what he did was just as good as murder, nothing more nothing less. If you push someone off a building or cause them to get to the point of jumping off a building, is there any differance, you still cause the death, you still commited murder. now shut up and take your punishment like a man. the guys in jail will teach you all about being gay, maybe when you are released you will now what you did and how wrong you were
All murders and criminals deny responsibility for their crimes until they see the hang mans noose. Now that he has been found guilty the Justice system needs to put the Christian church on trial for the crimes they have contributed to that resulted in the deaths of people who died as a result of their teaching hate of others. They also take not responsibility for their crimes because the blood from all of their victims have block their visions, if only mentally if not in fact their very eyes. Keep putting the spot light on the people like Ravi and the Christians who commit crimes against LGBT people all over the world. Keep pushing for justice to be done and no justice is done then there should be protest “no justice no peace”. Make these criminals feel the pain and suffering they make their victims felt before they died as a result of the actions of those like Ravi and the Christians who think they can get away with murder.
I think I might have said this before in another thread but, although I agree with much of what you say, it’s a little inappropriate in a thread about what I’m pretty sure is a Hindu subject. Christianity does not really come into this tragic story, at least as far as I’m aware.
Tyler was a christian. It was his upbringing and fear of exposure to his christian family and community which created the dissonance which Ravi ignited. Do you think if Tyler had been with a girl and Ravi had done exactly the same Tyler would have been so destroyed so as to kill himself.
Christainity has everything to do with this while Ravi’s religion only explains his own actions.
He may not have had ‘a problem’ with gay people but nevertheless he was prepared to treat one as a freak show, and to me that is a problem.
He may not have had the urge to smother his room mate to death or kick him unconscious in the street, but to submit him to public ridicule over an intimate matter that anyone who have wanted to keep private, shows a cruelty that seems to be absent in everything he is saying now.
To me it suggests a moral immaturity, and its as though he has adopted ‘American Pie’ type behaviour assuming that the staged antics seen in the flims will lift into reality with no comeback or consequences.
I don’t think his current sensitivity is sincere, even if it is, it was clearly very absent when he was causing the death of his room mate.
I think that is a fair comment with one question – if the intention was to subject his roomate to public ridicule (as per the American Pie mentality) then would it have made a difference if he was with a man, a woman, a blow up sheep or indeed himself…?
I know it would have made a difference to Tyler – naturally – but what I am getting at is the question of motivation. Was Ravi motivated by a desire to see his roomate ‘submitted to ridicule’ – in which case any of the above would have had the same effect – or was it specifically due to homophobic or anti-gay sentiment – in which case can this be evidenced specificaly?
Either way it was an incredible lack of consideration for another persons feelings that has led to a tragic result.
I think its about what makes a good joke better (although that is probably an unfortunately analogy) – I would guest amongst a largely straight college group, a guy having sex with another guy isn’t something you trip over every day whereas at your average college party you’re going to have straight couples at it virtually on public display, so there. I would guess therefore that the rarity of the situation would be seen to add value to the ‘prank’, and additional ‘humour’ was to be derived from the fact that the victim was gay …. although to be fair the feeling of the other guy present don’t seem to have been so well documented or reported, who was also a victim in this as well.
And if you believe any of his crap, I have a bridge to sell. This kid is a natural born politician. A very adept liar.
“…actions have consequences…” This idea seems to be completely lost on many people. Hopefully, this case will make people (some at least) stop and think.
This is why PN is rubbish
White Teen Pleads Guilty in Hit and Run Killing of Black Gay Miss. Man
The white Mississippi teenager charged with deliberately running down a Black gay man has pleaded guilty to capital murder. Nineteen-year-old Deryl Dedmon was sentenced on Wednesday to two life sentences in the horrific killing of James Craig Anderson, reports CNN.
Meanwhile: Dedmon and two accomplices pleaded guilty to federal hate crime charges this afternoon in Jackson, reports CNN. The three defendants admitted to “harassing and assaulting” random Black people on several occasions.
Deryl Dedmon, John Aaron Rice and Dylan Butler each admitted to conspiracy and violating the 2009 federal hate-crimes law in last June’s killing of James Craig Anderson. They face sentences of up to life in prison and $250,000 in fines, federal prosecutors said.
The 19-year-old Dedmon had already pleaded guilty to state murder and hate-crime cha
Ravi went to a lot of trouble to humiliate his roommate Tyler. This was not an offhand comment or an action that could possibly be taken out of context. This is not how you treat a brand new roommate that you respect and wish to get along with. Your actions belie your protestations. You’ve earned the misfortunes coming your way.
One imagines he will know all about gay men by the time he is released, as he is bound to become someones “bitch” for the duration and be passed around from cell to cell and bunk to bunk in payment for various debts. Before y’all start screaming about rape , I am not saying it should happen, I’m just stating the reality of life in an American penitentiary for what is termed there as “new meat”.
I really do think the kid jumped because of the possible exposure to his deeply xtian and presumably homophobic family and friends.
Homophobia is indeed a terrible, terrifying turn of events. In today’s NY Times, there’s frightening testimony demonstrating that it’s not only xtian, it’s found in all societies:
Mr Ravi’s arrogance never cease to amaze me. The sentencing will be interesting. He was given a chance to a lesser charge and no jail time and refused to take it. There are consequences for our actions. In this case one young man is dead. By continuning to insist that he is innocent I don’t see how a judge could do anything less than give him a long sentence. And remember, he wasn’t found guilty of murder. It was a hate crime combined with abstructing justice. Like a said, his arrogance never ceases to amaze.
I believe that he rejected the plea and took his chance with a jury (given that anti-gay bias isn’t exactly unknown) because he doesn’t have US citizenship and was warned that he faced deportation. So he rolled the dice, took his chance and lost. This is all desperate mitigation.
I suspect that the greatest part of the sentence will be in regards to evidence/witness tampering. The judge may feel obliged to toss the book at him for it.
The evidence tampering bit is the bit I don’t understand. He got caught red handed on the evidence tampering and refused a plea …. clearly I’m missing a bit there – he couldn’t be that dumb/arrogant.
People who think homophobia is only about hatred (in the “strong emotion” sense of the word) don’t understand it. It’s at least as much about defining gay sexuality as “abnormal”, with the implication of ridicule, disgust – and freak show laughter. Ravi may not have hated Clementi, but he certainly is the sort to point and sneer.