Germaine Greer is a living irrelevancy and a monumental hypocrite. ALL the years she was bustling around bristling against women being walking-wombs for men, she was secretly trying to get knocked up by ANYTHING with a penis.
When back in Australia, post-menopause in Northern New South Wales a few hours south of where I now live, she would try and jump any male tradesman with a pulse.
A truly revolting and ignorant semi-human being!
I may well be wrong here, but wasn’t she bristling against women being nothing other than walking wombs for men? My understanding is that her argument is more about the lack of choice in the matter – but I may have got the wrong end of the stick.
If we’re going to indulge in salacious gossip can we have some concrete evidence please!
As for jumping trademen, well stone me if we haven’t all tried that and not for wanting a kid either, well the men amongst us anyway.
WTF!? You obviously don’t know a thing about GG, you dumbass. This is what she F@CKING STANDS FOR!! Equal rights for women – if men can go around shagging, then women can too! Switch off your PC for a week and go read some books, because the internet has caused you to be an “ignorant semi-human being”.
Greer has made a big name and lots of money from inhumane, provocative analysis that promotes disharmony and creates distrust – I thouroughly recomend she is ignored. She has probably actually slowed and astalled equality.
She is pig ignorant – every transsexual I have known has wanted a comletely aithentic body, but surgery has not been able to provide this. How many transsexuals does Greer actually know and in how much depth? Greer is an awful woman who seeds distrust and hate for personal gain so is simply best ignored.
I think you are going off the deep end. At best Germaine Greer can be accused of being hypocritical and lacking in empathy and understanding of the plight of transgendered persons. That’s enough of a criticism and legitimate. You however have gone way over board.
I thoroughly disapprove of Germaine Greer’s remarks but I also take exception to the use of the Slut Slur tactic used in this post. It is no different from Rush Limbaugh’s recent attack on Sandra Fluke, calling her a prostitute for wanting health care insurance to cover women’s contraception needs. Trying to attack women by impugning their sexuality sucks really SUCKS
I’ve never particularly liked this woman and her hateful vitriol is adding to my dislike for her!
I think your bang on, and I felt the same. She is pig ignorant – every transsexual I have known has wanted a comletely authentic body, but surgery has not been able to provide this. How many transsexuals does Greer actually know and in how much depth? Greer is an awful woman who seeds distrust and hate for personal gain and so is simply best ignored.
Hang on a minute! Thats an almost word by word copy of what was posted by ‘Hannah’ earlier…
I smell a rat…
Couldn’t disagree more with Greer’s views on trans women, however on a different topic I’ve always been uncomfortable with a lot of drag acts – they are like the black and white minstrel show for women, promoting grotesque characters of femininity that any other group would be horrified by. I want to stress that I understand the difference between this and transgenderism. But maybe Greer doesn’t.
I hasten to add that I’m aware this comment will make me unpopular, but really – what’s the difference between drag and some of the worst gay stereotypes exploited for cheap laughs?
You’re spot on. Watch Rupaul drag race and see some of the nastiest people on earth mocking woman. Serving what they call real fish! Ignorant pigs
I don’t think you can generalise after watching a bunch of nasties slagging each other off. They don’t represent the whole community. My boyfriend is a drag queen and a nice one! He doesn’t associate himself with the bitchy ones. His alter ego’s persona is caring and motherly. Kind of exaggerated aspect of his own personality, something he has always wanted to explore. He certainly doesn’t mock women. Believe me there are nice drag queens out there. I’ve met them!
Whats the difference between a sophisticated clever comedian and Jim Davidson? The error is in lumping an insanely different buch of acts all as one genre.
There’s still a lot of misogynist drag out there, but there is also the new wave of gender benders celebrating and busting down gender binaries..we thrive in East London….we’re spreading
…and you don’t think trannies are grotesque parodies of women, ’cause that is what grosses most sane people out, that and this new craze of trans “men” having babies. Go see a shrink or simply ditch the homophobia and admit you are gay …… ….because like it or not that is what the whole tranny thing is about. Rabid Homophobia pure and simple.
Ignoring drag acts for a second… If you think a person who wasnt assigned-female-at-birth presenting female is a “grotesque parody” then you have a serious problem. Somebody being who they are isn’t a parody of anyone else. This is much like the ridiculous arguments that used to go around about gay sex being a ‘grotesque parody’ of straight sex.
Being trans is about rabid homophobia?!! Lol then why all the trans people who openly identify as LGB?
I’m disgusted by this grotesque parody of an actual logical argument XD
You’re so wrong I may have to invent a whole new word for what you actually are.
I’m bisexual and I can count the number of straight transpeople I know on the fingers of both hands.
I’m also sane as are the vast majority of trans people I know (not that our sanity has a goddamn thing to do with our gender identity)
Trans men having babies is really not a new thing. Just because you didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. I may want to be a father at somepoint in the future and if that’s going to happen and I want to have a genetic link to the child it’s not going to be able to happen through through me impregnating someone else because I can’t. Either I’m gong to have to get pregnant or I’m gong to have to use a surrogate with my eggs because those are the only options open to me.
So why do I have a girlfriend? It’s not rabid homophobia. As a gay person you should be the first person to realise that gender and sexuality are not linked! Bigot!
you’re the phobic one my dear.
what we call DRAG is known in other countries as TRAVESTIES, self explanatory really and nothing whatsoever to do with trans people . Another topic entirely.
This is a problematic statement because in Portuguese, “travesti” means BOTH transvestite AND transsexual…
I think there is a difference between some drag queens who actually parody themselves and things like the Black and White Minstrels. That said, SOME drag queens do seek to demean others (as do many other types of comedy acts) – the people they approach negatively tend to be members of the audience or people who are topical in the news etc. I have yet to see a show where a drag queen has ever mentioned a transgender person.
Got a lot of respect for your comments Stu but I disagree with you on this one. How is dressing up as a gross perversion of femininity (complete with ugly sister makeup) parodying themselves?
I’m sure they mean in innocently but the same can be said of the black and white minstrels.
Sorry for bringing it up here – it wasn’t my intention to draw parallels with trans people – I just thought that Greer might be conflating the two
Thanks ;-). I shall go away and think about it some more, but I do think there is a difference between the likes of the Black and White Minstrels and most drag queens.
How I articulate that difference I need to ponder.
Just an aside (I am still thinking) …
I went away to think about this and dig a google on drag queens black and white minstrels, to try and get an idea of what others might have written on the issue (if anything) ….
What did I find?
An article by David Icke of all people denouncing drag queens because they are similar to the black and white minstrels in terms of humour.
Its not an authority I will rely on ;-)
I will keep thinking!
Had a think and still think that whilst some drag queens can be misogynistic, many are not. A bit like some rappers are homophobic – some are not.
I had a read through some discussions on this issue and the following comments helped reinforce my views:
“Drag Queens are making a political statement. They are mocking the heterosexist ideology by creating a new ideology called performality. This performality is a duality as it is about a man dressing as a woman pretending to be a woman. The film “Victor Victoria” takes things even further with a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman which makes gender roles even more convoluted to the point where gender roles are demonstrated to be a social construction of gender and identity.
Its should be noted that many people do not consider gender roles to be a social construct. Otherwise we could simply ‘re -educate ‘ transexuals, or even homosexuals to comply to the social expectations of gender, which we can’t. Drag
Have just spent half an hour trying to post the second bit of this then my laptop crashed and I have lost it.
Suffice to say that I take the view that there are bad drag acts which can be misogynistic. However, good drag is part of an aspect of gay male culture (although not all gay men enjoy it!). I also think there is a balance between self parody and any other sort of parody that almost balances each other out.
Wow! Thanks for such a thoughtful answer! If only the internet was more like you!
Interesting what you said with regard to victor victoria and showing up gender roles for how ridiculous they are.
I don’t doubt that some drag acts exist for this purpose and do so with tact (if I was feeling argumentitive I might say that it was at least theoretically possible to use blackface for the same ends!) but I guess my initial gut reaction was to do with seeing the more pantomime dame end of the spectrum – the grotesque – and thinking “here’s what a room full of men who are not interested in women think of them”. I’m sure it comes from BOTH a gay man’s natural(?) subversion of gender roles AND reaction against the gender he’s told he should covet.
I just know that if a straight guy had an act that involved pretending to be a grotesque parody of a gay man i’d probably be offended (even if the pretence was to highlight the ridiculousness of sexual orientation roles or stereotypes)
I concede though that I haven’t seen all that much drag – I was put off by a few very clearly misogynistic acts early on (a guy in a fat suit doing a striptease complete with saggy boobs which was little more than a ‘look how disgusting women’s bodies are’ gross out for gay men).
I agree with you that there are some horrific drag acts out there and I feel they actually do those who are (arguably) more progressive and thoughtful in their parodies a disservice.
If you had felt argumentative and said the possibility of the black face construct could be theoretically used to expose the ridiculous nature of some societal presumptions on race – I might have agreed with you. ;-)
queens mock the sexuality of themselves as much as they parody women. The self mocking counteracts any aspect of misogynistic behaviour.
If one looks at the audience of drag queens for example at Funny Girl’s in Blackpool or in Gran Canaria, at least some of them were laughing at the ‘spectacle’ of self-degradation and emasculation of a ‘man’ as much as the content of the performance itself.
Drag Queens honestly get attacks from every angle – feminists in the 70′s-90′s were calling drag akin to “black face”, assimilation minded gay men were (and are) hand-wringing over their participation in Pride, now a transsexual woman is asking for a disclaimer. It’s a wonder that they still show up when some charity needs a fundraiser.”
While I’m not a big fan of drag acts, they’re part of the larger LGBT community too, and are entitled to the same respect that everyone else is entitled too. I for one wish I had the confidence that a lof of drag queens appear to have.
Funny enough, you very rarely expect reason and truth from radical feminists, but on this occasion she was absolutely right. Trans women ARE what she said!
You do realise where you are right? Women are women and men are men and the genitals they happen to lug around with them are irrelevent to this fact.
She’s also talking absolute crap women come in a huge variety of shapes, sizes and presentations whether they were assigned female at birth or not just the same as men do whether this is so utterly, stereotypically traditional it makes my teeth ache or whther they’re pushing the boundares of gender expression to the absolute limit.
Equally a huge number of trans people would love to be parents in a way congruant with their gender presentation (I would love to be able to produce semen and many trans women would love to be able to carry a child).
“in a way congruant with their gender presentation”… Shudders.
One behalf of every woman out there who has – for whatever reason – lost their uterus and/or ovaries, and whom Greer is labelling as a lesser/non-woman, might I invite her to kindly go take a long walk off a short pier. My mind, consciousness, sense of self, do not reside in my abdominal cavity – a fact that is true for ALL women.
Umm yeah DNA aint the magic marker you think it is. there are hundreds of intersex conditions out there and recent evidence shows intersex people may have the same rate of incidence in humanity as people wth green eyes. There are people with XX chromosomes you be utterly unable to physically tell apart from people XY chromosomes and vice versa. Go peddle your ignorant bull somewhere else.
…”Go peddle your ignorant bull somewhere else”. Better follow your own advise.
The scenario you describe is so rare as to be almost non existent. Don’t know where you received your doctorate from but I would ask for my money back if I were you. Your incredible guff about DNA is infantile and school yard science and I wouldn’t repeat it in intelligent company, if you want to stay outside a padded cell. No amount of hormone therapy or surgery will give a woman the DNA of a man or otherwise a man the DNA of a woman., Period.
actually paddy you are showing your ignorance.
you where the one going on about DNA and the idea of a pure gender. Well it don’t exist.
Intersex conditions exist that are only picked up if and/ or when people try to have children and find they cant, some people go their whole life intersex and never know. Indeed paddy you may be intersex.
Theres that awful smell again….
yes, the stink of your hate paddy
Paddy – You act like such an internet tough guy when all people do here is laugh at you, do you not know that? And you insist on trying to assert insight and authority when you actually possess neither.
..”You act like such an internet tough guy when all people do here is laugh at you, do you not know that? And you insist on trying to assert insight and authority when you actually possess neither.
You are even more deluded than one thought possible if you seriously think that one is in any way concerned about what the freaks and fetishists on this thread think of one or of what one posts, least of all you. Rather the laugh is on the pretend “women” and “men” whose pathetic attempts to get their fetish recognised by sane society. Frankly they are a burden that the GLB community doesn’t need as we fight our legitimate battle for our human rights.
Their DNA would say that they had a certain chromosome structure, nothing more than that. Some people may draw assumptions on that persons life based on that but those assumptions are not fact. Yeah, my sex chromosomes are very likely XY, I don’t give a crap about that now and I certainly won’t when I’m dead!
“Your twisted logic that a woman who has had a hysterectomy is not a woman is just that” Er, Valksy’s argument was the total OPPOSITE of that.
and because this one is always fun… Do you care to explain where the delusion lies in trans people identifying as a gender other than that which was assigned to them at birth? Given that trans people aren’t delusional about their assigned gender nor their body or any other aspect of their life, and that they define ‘gender’ as something other than a synonym for anatomical sex good luck finding a ‘delusion’ in what is simply an argument over appropriate definitions of words.
I’m cisgendered – and as a woman who has the plumbing Greer is fetishising as being the pinnacle of defined womanhood, I am bloody offended. Spend time around women who have lost those organs (or their breasts) and see them struggling to define themselves as women due to the drivel by women like Greer – she hurts us all, cigendered women and trans women and if she wants to assume that all cisgendered women are “on her side” on the matter, she is bloody mistaken. But thanks for taking the time to spout your ill-informed BS – DNA is no where near as defined as you like to think it is.
Oh so we just throw the whole DNA research and breakthroughs in the bin because trannies don’t like it.
Grow up and get a life, whinging creep. Pity we don’t have a few more like Ms Greer to put more of y’all in your places.
I will say again, for the hard of thinking. I am cisgendered. A point that I wish to make very clear as Greer is often trotted out as a figurehead and the voice of women, when she really is not deserving of that title. She doesn’t speak for me, she doesn’t represent me and I don’t agree with what she says. And you are still pitifully informed and ignorant, look up XYY and XXY syndromes, it is far more common than you seem to believe. Genetic make-up is no where near as clear cut as you are incorrectly insisting on believing.
Speaking as someone who has spent several years working as a human DNA analyst, I can tell you that scientists are fully aware of the limitations of the explanatory power of chromosomal type, and of the complexities of DNA microstructure and expression. We also acknowledge that there is no definitive measure of “biological sex”, and that karyotype does not correlate perfectly other measures, including chemical and morphological ones.
Of course my mother who had a hysterectomy around 4 years ago is no less of a female because of her lack of uterus and ovaries in my opinion.
Stu, the thing that troubles me so deeply is that women are routinely and persistently challenged to justify their own bodies and made to feel lesser or inferior if they fail to meet an artificial standard. Greer should not be collaborating in that in any manner.
It may be that I havent noticed it because it wouldnt necesssarily be an issue that would stand out as obvious to me as a male – so I don’t recognise the problem as routine and persistent (that is not saying that it isn’t – it is me admitting my ignorance).
My ignorance though should not stop me supporting and encouraging women (whether cis or trans) from doing everything reasonable to achieve equality. I would hope they would encourage and support me as a gay man in seeking equality – and therefore whilst not understanding I try and empathise and support.
Frankly, all women all the time and expected to conform to artificial standards of the way they look and the way they are. If you do not appear a certain way, then you are treated by society (including other women) as an inferior. Women spend a lot of money trying to reach this standard, expend a lot of time and effort, and for many it isn’t even a practical possibility. Ideal womanhood is a firmly entrenched concept – and including internal organs as well, and having someone who is supposed to be a voice of women joining in, is disheartening.
Ok. I wasn’t connecting the perceptions that are promulgated in so-called fashion magazines with body shape, particular styling etc etc as being similar to the issues of internal biology (whether trans or cis). I can see the argument, whether it be a full on connection or extrapolation.
Sorry, Valksy, but from your comments I’ve read over the weeks, I presumed you were male.
Nope. Very very very lesbian. I’ve noticed people assume, I don’t go out of my way to correct them because most of the time it really isn’t relevant to do so.
I think the ignorance and lack of feeling this woman shows for other women in her statements shows just how much what she says is simply about personal gain, an dhow littel she cares for others.
You do know they can’t test homosexuality by DNA either does that mean we’re all actually straight, Paddy your transphobia is non sensical and as part of the LGBT community you really should know better.
She’s right. I’ve never met a trans person who wasn’t more obsessed with dress-up than they were with humanity. This is a clothing fetish (and clothing for men and women is itself a social construct), not a human rights issue.
and how many trans people have you met? Now take the number you know about and add quite a few onto it because strangely enough we are not obligated to walk around with ‘trans’ branded on our foreheads.
Yes sometimes as a trans man I do obsess over what I wear but when not having ‘extraneous’ lumps and bumps can be a matter of life and death (or at least serious injury) wouldn’t you?
Because people with clothing fetishes typically undergo years of painful surgery.
Yes gender is a social construct but even if you utterly remove gender from society there are still going to be people who want or need to undergo treatment for the simple reason that my problem isn’t with my brain it’s with my body.
…”strangely enough we are not obligated to walk around with ‘trans’ branded on our foreheads.” You don’t need to. You all look like grotesque parodies of men or women and anyone who doesn’t see that should have went to a certain High St optical prosthesis purveyor.
Look up kim petras,Dr Richard Curtis, Sarah Brown and a number of others. Hell look at pictures of me and tell me I look like a parody of a man. I look like a parody of a woman and I’m not even on hormones yet. I have a very small chest (particularly considering my size and don’t even need to bind to ‘pass’) I sing tenor and I’m growing facial hair and this is what my body does to me with no help from anyone else whatsoever.
You think that’s what we look like because you only ever notice the people who don’t quite fit your stereotypical standard of the acceptable limits of male and female beauty. There are thousands more of us who are just quietly getting on with our lives and you could pass us in the street or sit and have a chat with us on the bus and you’d have absolutely no idea you were talking to a trans person.
Sorry, you do realise we can’t see eh. I know the internet is suyper-duper but how the bleedin’ hell can we see YOU!
Think you’re confusing transvestites and transexuals there Roberto.
No, I know the difference. I also know the statistical data that shows that even after surgery transsexuals remain deeply unhappy. A profoundly wounding feeling that you want to be someone else is in these cases dysfunctionally manifests as an obsession with clothing and with rearranging one’s genitalia. I believe in total equal rights for EVERYONE on the LGBT spectrum, but what Greer says about parody is correct. I am talking about aesthetics, not saying that people don’t have rights to jobs.
Can you provide a citation for this data you mention? All the studies I’ve seen have suggested the opposite.
If you had a clue what you’re talking about you wouldn’t mischaracterise being trans as “feeling that you want to be someone else”. Wanting to alter ones anatomical sex, wanting to be recognised as ones identified gender doesn’t constitute wanting to be a different person. Most trans people find social transition to be a process of becoming freer in ones expression of ones own self instead of being what other people want us to be.
Strangely enough, every statistical report that I have ever read about post-operative trans females is exactly the opposite to your statement and that around 95% are now living happy and contented lives.
“I’ve never met” The plural of anecdote is not data.
“This is a clothing fetish” Fetish? Is this that old tired trope that when a person assigned-male-at-birth wears a shirt and a tie that is ‘normal’ but when they wear a skirt it somehow must have sexual connotations?!
What about gender identity, body dissonance etc, the variety of trans experience cannot be reduced simply to clothing. I know a few trans women who couldn’t give a crap about wearing dresses or skirts and prefer to wear comfy casual jeans and t-shirt.
“not a human rights issue” Riiiight, the disproprortionate rates of violent crime against trans people, the high levels of unemployment, you see no human rights issues here?
Also, how is escaping from sexist gendered dress codes NOT in itself a human rights issue?
The look on her face is fcking hilarious!!!
one of the most delightful things I’ve seen all week.
all month possibly.
Every time I look at this photo of her, I just crack up! Germaine Outrage!! x
How appalling that you regard a physical assault on a pensioner as ‘hilarious’.
Shame on you!
How surprising of you to jump to the defense of someone who has a history of transphobia, dAVID …
Germaine Greer is an icon.
That is not up for debate.
Some people idolise mass murderers, doesn’t make it a good thing …
Shocking darling, I know. I’m sure she wasn’t mortally wounded.
Germaine Greer is wrong on this: and many of the comments above are not exactly germane! :)
I first remember reading – with mild shock – her inane views on “trannies” in, of all things, a free mag (on “culture”?) distributed in, as I recall it, a cinema.
I had previously thought all feminists would be sympathetic to all persecuted on grounds of their gender, actual or “perceived”.
Pity she can’t overcome her RC education!
…….I always had great admiration for Germaine Greer and have admired her no nonsense approach to life and I see her as a woman who speaks as she sees. A realist in other words. Finally a real woman tells these deluded men that they aren’t women and no matter what or how much reconstruction they will never be women. Any of you ever see an old tranny? They are just old men in their moms clothes. A self imposed freak show in other words.
I really do hope she sues the butts off these people for assault, because glitter or no, what they did to this much admired, intelligent woman was assault under law. So much for freedom of speech.
They always say that the bullied become the bullies to those weaker than themselves. It is interesting to see that those who are often on the receiving end of bigotry have no problem in becoming bigots themselves at the first opportunity. I find in amazing that someone who would get up in arms at the first suggestion that being gay or lesbian is a life choice and that with will power you could be made ‘better’ and ‘be normal’ cannot understand that being trans is similar. It’s not a life choice it just is. I cannot be ‘not trans’ any more than you can be ‘not gay’.
….”understand that being trans is similar.” …and I agree wholeheartedly. What I have a problem getting to grips with is the futile attempts to become whatever your head says you are, …man that should be a woman or vise versa. No amount of surgery or hormones is going to morph you into what you are not and the sad lonely freak that most trannies become is testament to that.
@XYL…..”One behalf of every woman out there who has – for whatever reason – lost their uterus and/or ovaries, and whom Greer is labelling as a lesser/non-woman” Greer did not mention or ever refer to women who have had a hysterectomies. She spoke only of trans who voluntarily had their bits removed in a futile attempt to become what they can never be, men. Being obtuse lessens your argument even more than it is, if that were possible.,
Re: “Greer did not mention or ever refer to women who have had a hysterectomies”
Germaine Greer, in “The Change: Women, Ageing and the Menopause,” also labels hysterectomy as devastating and attacks those who partake of it.
EMPHASIS: “The evangelism of hysterectomized women is irrational,” Ms. Greer writes,EMPHASIS:
adding, as if she knows better, “the patients themselves often proselytize for the particular form of devastation that they have undergone, convinced that after it they feel better than they ever did before.”
So, she does talk a LOT about natal women having, as you say “bits removed”.
More medication for Paddy Matron…………
Be prepared to be slapped, Shane – he doesn’t like being called Paddy!
How about Paddybigot?
…Unlike most of the freaks on this thread, I am completely med free…..
Which obviously explains your reaction to TG people – maybe you should consider asking your GP for something
Aww — I’m rather fond of Germaine Greer, though she says some bonkers things sometimes she’s nothing if not sincere.
I believe her [strong] opinion on transwomen is based on her belief that no-one who doesn’t or hasn’t experienced menstruation can really understand what being a woman is like. I can sort of see her point but it’s not for me, as a man, to comment really.
but many women do not experience menstruation, others do not experience monthly menstruation so therefore they would not be women by this codification.
But the vast majority of women do experience menstruation.
And the vast majority of women do not need to take female hormones in tablet or injection form – ALL transwomen do.
……. and many men need to take Viagra in order to become erectile – does this make them less men??
But viagra is a very helpful drug – for both heart conditions and erectile disfunction, and that other use (for those who have neither but like the extra va-va-voom!). dAvid is merely pointing out that otherwise transsexuals are just their DNA-predisposed body presentation (shudders) and that it is only artificial hormones that make the men feminine… and woman masculine. “People who don’t ovulate or menstruate will probably always physically outperform people who do” is what Greer said, it’s hardly the most damning evidence!
@ theotherone, I think she meant the natural process however it applies from individual to individual – but I must stress I am only stating an impression I received from something I heard her say in an interview.
What are her views on transmen then I wonder?
….one would have thought you could have worked that out for yourself or did they also remove your substandard brain along with your balls,…..or ovaries, whichever delusion you suffered from. Are you a homophobe too?
Paddy you are a vile excuse for a human being you really are. You haven’t got the first clue about what it is to be trans. Nor would I be so quick to assume that everyone you disagree with is ipso facto trans unsurprisingly an awful lot of cis people see the rubbish spouted about transpeople for exactly what it is and support our rights to present as our nature dictates.
another charming response from paddy
How could I have worked it out for myself? Her reason for criticising transwomen was her belief that they made women look like they were lesser than men. Based on several things she’s said I doubt she’s be anymore keen on transmen, but I don’t know for sure until she actually gives her view.
your father should of shot you in the air when he had the chance
As I understand it, the commonly accepted viewpoint among radical feminists is that transmen are women who are seeking to ascend to a position of power in the patriarchy.
She’s just bloody ridiculous at this point. I’m so fed up of being told what I am and am not by people with no more bloody clue about the issues than they have about particle physics or church music of the 10th century
Germaine Greer is a woman.
I suspect that she very much has a clue about what it’s like to be a woman.
Transwomen have to learn to respect women more.
Love that GLITZKRIEG term!
Wow, I am surprised at the level of animosity towards Germaine Greer on this message board. Yeah her comment was unfortunate but I’ve always considered her to be a highly intelligent and articulate individual who has more often than not led some very worthwhile debates.
The animosity comes from decades of spreading misinformation, slurs and hatred against trans people. She is not asking for worthwhile debate on trans people, she is simply spouting the same old tired tropes that she has been repeatedly corrected on. I don’t care how ‘intelligent and articulate’ she is, that is an ability that can be used either for better or for worse. A glitterbombing can never come close to the kind of damage she has done over the years.
As an academic, Greer should know better: check facts and engage brain before opening mouth.
As previously commented by Alex above, Greer is a bit quiet about trans men – some more equal than others eh?
Really, though? Most people tend to think she’s a bit extreme, and I doubt that many people take her all that seriously on such issues.
Thankfully these days you’re right, most people see her as rather anachronistic on these issues. Though there are some people (as you can see from a few of the comments here) that will overlook seemingly blatant flaws in an argument if it bolsters their preexisting prejudice.
Back in the days of Janice Raymond’s “Transsexual Empire” though this brand of transphobic pseudofeminism did a lot of damage.
I don’t find her anachronistic in any way, shape or form… Sloganising for the sake of comment is dumb. Did you lose sight of the fact that she wasn’t speaking about transsexuals but Caster Semenya, who is, in fact, intersexed? How she feels about transsexuals is her own personal comment, and certainly not worthy of this attack – 2 years later (but woman are never on time, eh?!)! How she feels about women is the crux of her comment pieces. Just stating the bleeding obvious. Bored. Playstation3. Transsexuals. Bore. Me… (sadly dies) XX-(
Indeed and the debate goes on :)
Hitler was also considered by many to be ‘highly intelligent and articulate’….d
Harry Hill’s TV Burp: “Well I like Hitler, but I also like Germaine Greer. But which is better? There’s only one way to find out. FIGHT!!!”
It’s “unfortunate” when you fart at the dinner table. Greer’s outing and tabloid abuse of Rachael Padman (which she is still totally unapologetic for), equating transwomen to “rapists” in her book The Whole Woman and her constant and toxic abuse of trans people? That’s more than unfortunate, it’s toxic.
I’m sure Germaine will be trying to deposit glitter next into Room 101 ;D
FABULOUS ! about time she was brought up to date on feminist politics , got her head out of her books and faced modern reality , that will make her think :) LOVING IT, once a catholic and all that .
So please explain why someone who does not identify as male, should automaitcally be granted the right to a fully female identity?
I agree, Germaine Greer is FABulous.
Speaking as a young woman, I think you need to know just how many of us despise “modern” aka bankrupt feminist politics which do nothing for women than shove us back into stereotypical roles about what it means to be female (see any “how I knew I was trans” tale) and how it has nothing to do with catholicism but everything to do with understanding the material reality that males oppress and exploit females and just because they’re in woman-face doesn’t mean they’re suddenly one of us.
I saw Germaine Greer in a lecture about 15 years ago and the points she made about transwomen then made a lot of sense.
She made the point back then that transwomen did not regard themselves as men. Fair enough she said.
But on what valid grounds can they claim to be ‘women’.Not being a man does not automatically make you a woman she said. Which sounds pretty reasonable to me.
The point she made was that just because a transwoman did not not identify as male, does not give her the right to assume a female identity and be regarded as such.
She regarded this thinking as misogynistic
And those transwomen who physically assaulted Germaine Greer by ‘glitter bombing’ her live up to all those tired stereotypes of violent, women-hating men!
“Not being a man does not automatically make you a woman she said. Which sounds pretty reasonable to me.” True enough, since gender is not a binary. There are people who identify as not-male without identifying as female (non-gendered, agender, neutrois etc). However trans women identify as not-male and positively as female, they are not ‘assuming’ a female identity as some kind of conscious attempt to appropriate somebody elses experience, that’s just who and what they are.
Also, no, a glitterbombing by trans women would not live up to “tired stereotypes of violent, women-hating men” since there would be no men involved!
What on earth has made you belive anyone has to prove anything for the right to be accepted as man, or woman, or any other gender they truly feel thay are?
How does it become misogynistic to just tell other people who you really are, on the inside?
I suppose Greer doesn´t think transmen really are men either, I suppose we are women for her. But, I would be surprised if she would accept us in women only spaces.
It is a dangerous fallacy to assume that violence is the exclusive domain of men. And the men here should be offended by your stereotype as I am.
Violence is not the exclusive domain of men. I know that.
But statistically men are more violent than women.
And these trans’women’ are violent.
It’s no surprise they were born men.
I find myself in total agreement , Why all this either or ? I consider myself and identify as transexual and always will do , I have no need to be male nor female I am transexual who identifies as female , am not a woman . I celebrate my transexuality , the third sex . As I say I welcome the debate.
As a gay man, I don’t understand transexuals – at all. But, I don’t have to. The only choice I have to makes is to either accept or not accept a transgendered person at their word regarding their gender. I am not so protective of masculinity that a formerly-female male affects my life or how I view myself in any way. I find it slightly odd that this woman would be so protective of femininity that she would feel some sort of slight over a formerly-male female.
I don’t see why transpeople cannot be regarded as a 3rd gender.
You cannot recognise trans men and trans women as a third gender because that is not what they are. They are men and women, whatever you choose to ‘regard’ them as. There are trans people who identify as ’3rd gender’ or some designation other than ‘male’ or ‘female’, however labelling them as ’3rd gender because they’re trans’ isn’t correctly recognising their experience either.
because that’s not what they identify as. that’s a very obvious no-brainer, david.
Shame on those trans ‘women’.
Physically assaulting a pensioner is utterly despicable behaviour.
Physicall asssaults on women are predominantly performed by men.
oh p1ss off dAVID
you remind me of the women who threw me out of a women only space I was volunteering in.
they threw me out and told me i wasn’t allowed to be upset because being upset because that would be aggressive and aggression was a male response.
That’s horrible! I think people sometimes look for things which they can use against people in attempt to confirm their hatred beliefs. In psychology we call it the ‘confirmation bias’. People want to be right, but any intelligent person would realise the flaw in their logic. Being upset isn’t aggressive, and being aggressive isn’t just a male trait. You had every right to be p1ssed off with them!
dAVID, your comment about physical assault has no meaning. Anyone of any gender can physically assault anyone of any gender. Throwing glitter on someone or whatever isn’t exactly physically assaulting someone. Again, looking for meaningless evidence to confirm ones bigotry. Its a shame.
True but usually violence against women is perpetrated by men.
And seeing as these trans’women’ were born physically male, then maybe there is a reason they respond with violent, male instincts.
You’ve pretty much just repeated your previous comment. I don’t think saying it again in a different way will make much difference. You still come across as transphobic.
‘a reason they respond with violent, male instincts.’ – sounds like a wide generalisation to me.
Do you act on your violent male instincts dAVID? I am presuming you’re male?
A few transwomen throw glitter at a spiteful bigot and you accuse them of being violent and acting on male instincts because you believe violence against women is usually perpetrated by men. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds?
Next time someone triggers your male instincts I’ll expect you’ll get your glitter out and throw it around the place.
Good luck with that…
Since when is glitter bombing an assault. Glitter is used precisely because of its symbolic nature. It doesn’t assault anything except hopefully her undeserved dignity.
I seem to remember you supporting similar glitterings against people like Michelle Bachmann
You remember incorrectly then.
I remember the same thing David
How do you know that the people who glittered her were trans? The Queer Avengers appear to be an umbrella queer organisation, providing solidarity across the LGBTQ spectrum.
There is nothing relevant to Germaine Greer. She is a complete non entity trading on her long past 15 minutes. She has no idea of reality in any form and is offensive to Cis and Trans folk. Ignorant, arrogant and entirely pointless. Go away you sad, one note, one dimensional dinosaur.
…do you have any idea just how envious, pathetic and sad your comment
is. Read it again and cringe.
Germaine Greer a non entity???????
Learn some history.
You utter moron.
I never liked this woman, ever. Her dismissive remarks about Tolkien, Gay men and other subjects disgust me!!!!! Boring writer, also!!!
What did she say abt Tolkien, Nick? Can you post a link in case I can’t find it on the Gu?
I used to respect this woman during my teens as I classed myself as a feminist…now I look back at how naive I was and laugh…this woman is the delusional parody…NOT trans women! And her comment about ‘womb and ovary’ transplants and it putting trans women off being female…unspeakably ill informed and wrong…A lot of trans women I know would give anything to be mothers and have the full female experience that having female reproductive organs brings…This woman is a disgraceful, ill informed idiot!
Excellent comments, I frequently wish it were possible to wake up in the morning and be physically ‘complete’ as a biological woman. Thank you
I too would have wished to have the complete experience of being female – including having a family and child birth. Alas, this was not an option for me when I transitioned many years ago and is only becoming a rare possibility these days as I believe one university hospital in the US is now screening applicants for the first ever transplant of this type.
Too many people think that this is a lifestyle choice – it isn’t – it is a necessity to survive.
Thank you Suzi for your understanding and support.
Band on! She must be passing an opinion without genuinely knowing one transsexual, or even having read a single biography!!!! Every TS I have known has wanted a completely aithentic body ( though I have to say that like most women if I could get all that without painful and difficult mentration I would be even more pleased!!!). Greer is also implying here that most women want to menstrate and have all the discomfort associated with periods. Is that true?
it gladdens my heart to see the reawakening of radical activism.
Physically assaulting a pensioner is not ‘radical activism’.
It is despicable behaviour.
Shame on you.
Amused by a physical assault on a pensioner by some violent she-hulks?
As a trans woman I wish just about every day that I could wake up and find that it had all been a dreadful dream, being born physically male and that I was physiologically complete as woman. Greer is a biggoted ignoramous endevouring to profit from promoting distress and discord.
Germaine Greer has never glittered cross-dressers or trans-sexuals, or tried to silence them. Why are they doing that to her?
She is stating that dressing like a woman or surgically making your genitals resemble a woman’s doesn’t automatically make you a woman. I identify with Al Pacino. I’m not Al Pacino.
The notion of what constitutes a person is pretty concrete. I don’t think there is much debate about where that particular Al Pacino ends and Not Al Pacino begins.
Gender? Er, not so much, that is not a fixed concept with totally agreed upon static meanings. It is not simply a synonym for anatomical sex. Trans women generally don’t think that “dressing like a woman or surgically making your genitals resemble a woman’s” makes one a woman. Trans women tend to define themselves as being a woman regardless of clothing or genitalia. Trying to associate identifying as a gender other than that assigned to onesself at birth with being delusional is spurious at best. What we have in reality is a debate over categorisations that are socially constructed and how appropriate they are and whether they marginalise certain groups.
Precisely. Germaine Greer makes no attempt to understand the psychology of the transgendered female and focuses only on body parts. I would say that was the rankest sexism against women I’ve ever heard. She is really motivated by nothing more than her subjective “yech” factor, which shows how morally bankrupt she truly is… She’s no better than the old bitch Anne W.
Germaine Greer is a female icon.
If you’re a woman (as opposed to a transwoman) the you know that already.
Are you a woman or a transwoman?
Being an icon doesn’t exempt her from being called on her oppressive garbage.
There are transgender women who actually want a uterus-and-ovaries transplant. Argumentation fail!
Every transsexual woman…..
Not true. Just like how plenty of ciswomen don’t want to have kids, plenty of transwomen want nothing to do with childbirth. But yes, I’d say a goodly presentage of them want reproductive capacity.
as an intellectual, she is lazy. she wants to bring trans* into the intellectual arena and attack it but that is where she stops. that is simply not good enough.
if she was worth her salt, she’d question gender and sex too but she doesn’t. and why not? because that would harm her cis-supremacist argument. just disappointing.
Kevin, I agree this is very lazy intellectually . . . but what concerns me about Germaines argument is the “Gender Purity” line which she is putting forward.
If being a woman in its pure form according to Greer, is to be in possession of a uterus and ovaries which are functional, this is problematic.
What about the many menopausal women (presumable including Greer herself), and all those many women (Sadly due to cancer), who have to undergo radical surgery to remove these organs.
Are these women no longer “Pure or authentic women”?
We get it, Germaine. You don’t like us.
However, mocking our sterility is simply cruel. Shame on you.
Press WHAT charges? What law would have been broken?
Y You are such an ignorant troll Paddyswurds.
Sarah Brown says:”We get it, Germaine. You don’t like us.”
Please explain your use of the word “us”?
You don’t regard Ms Greer as one of your group? She’s not part of “us”?
But she is a woman?
And she’s not part of “us”?
Why are “us” women then?
Trans women are a group within women, just like women of colour or disabled women. Greer belongs to none of these groups.
“No so-called sex-change has ever begged for a uterus-and-ovaries transplant; if uterus-and-ovaries transplants were made mandatory for wannabe women they would disappear overnight.”
Actually, that’s exactly what I want. Wanna know why it doesn’t happen? Biomedical science isn’t that advanced yet. I would rather have terrible dysmenorrhea than the body I currently have.
The trick here is “mandatory.” The problem with making implant surgeries “mandatory” is that under modern technology, they’re impractical – taking the huge doses of immunosuppressants needed for the success of even minor transplants makes you tremendously susceptible to illness. Lili Elbe’s body rejected the implanted ovaries and uterus, the rejection of the latter killed her.
Once stem cell implants become feasible, I’m right there with you. Until then? I’ll muddle along with what I have, rather than play Russian Roulette.
FYI germaine greer, if there was such a thing as a uterus and ovary transplant, I would be the first in line, for me, one of the hardest things about being trans is knowing I will never be able to get pregnant, sure I could “father” a child, but knowing I will never know what it feels like to have a new life growing inside of me breaks my heart
This is just sick fetishism.
I know. It’s horribly sick and perverted the way cis people act like trans bodies are their property to ogle and unmake as you see fit.
It only goes to show how many transpeople ms Greer knows. I and many, many, transwomen would trade our male bodies lock, stock and barrel for a female body. And of course, like so many feminists, she says nothing about our transbrothers, as if they don’t exist….
She does come across as rather blunt & I see why people take offence. But is she not allowed to voice her position? Have all the trans lobby got is angry screeds, physical attacks on non-violent opposition & gender-theory which would shame a first year undergraduate.
Greer is right, and on this subject seems to be the child capable of looking straight at things & seeing the emperor is naked & the man\woman dressed up pretending and parodying and sometimes mutilating their body does not, no way, become gendered opposite to their birth sex.
Many heterosexual men wear make-up, frock & skirts or do house husband duties or a thousand other things which traditionalists label feminine. This does not make them women & our society is fairly flexible with gender roles. Transgender is, as Greer says, a delusion & no amount of special pleading, obfuscating medical jargon and gender studies bullship makes things otherwise.
What a closed-minded, ignorant ASS you are! You probably can accept that some people are born physically different or with a disease that must be medically corrected — because you can actually SEE those differences yourself. You KNOW that some people ARE born differently than other people. WHY is it so damn difficult for people like you to accept that maybe a VERY small percentage of people whose bodies develop into “males” do not have their brains develop from the original female form (we ALL start out as female) into a male form? Because you can’t actually SEE that difference! And — since you were born with a body that is aligned with your ‘gender identity’ (which you probably don’t even realize you have since it is ‘aligned’), the entire concept of gender identity is something that you can’t intellectually comprehend either – because YOU were obviously BORN with a very low I.Q…
So, you first & last stoop to abuse & then fart out a lot of generalized & partial opinion as if it were fact. Why are transexuals so abusive and aggressive? Why not rationally argue against those who disagree with your ideology without stooping to foul language and hate? Anyway, fyi my IQ is perfectly respectable but, from your post, I seriously doubt you can reason above the level of a pre-teenager.
Funny, it seems you forgot to actually address her points.
Almost like you were, oh I dunno, AVOIDING THE ISSUE :/
I am so glad that the people posting comments here get it. Germaine Greer lost all credibility for me years ago. She really is an out-dated hate filled irrelevance. Good riddance.
Germaine Greer makes no attempt to understand the psychology of the transgendered female and focuses only on body parts. I would say that was the rankest sexism against women I’ve ever heard. She is really motivated by nothing more than her subjective “yech” factor, which shows how morally bankrupt she truly is… She’s no better than the old bitch Anne W.
Isn’t it funny how a “feminist icon” has turned into a ghastly parody of a Daily Mail columnist?
Transwomen really don’t seem to understand the feminist struggle do they?
Then again, why should they?
They were born with penises after all.
All I’m saying is that the transwomen on this thread, ripping Germaine Greer to shreds on this thread, should realise that they are doing so to a woman who has contributed very much to women’s rights.
Why are they doing that to one of their own?
Greer may have done some great things in the past for women’s rights — but that does NOT give her the right now to be a hateful bigot towards Transsexual people! Her RECENT comments only prove that she needs to EDUCATE herself more on Transsexual people — as do YOU!
Great going, sidesteping every one of her points!
This is just extremely ignorant. I know trans females who would happily have fully functional female reproductive organs. They’re not exactly begging for periods and the pain involved but I’ve never met a cis girl who exactly likes it either, anyone who claims to is just being a hyper-feminist really.
Oh the look on her face….priceless!
Good for them. She got what she deserved. She’s an irrelevant, transphobic second-wave radfem who has no place in modern feminism.
Why don’t this crowd of whinging fantasists in the So called trans community feck off and whing on another site where there just might be someone who wants to listen to their constant bitching and whinging. As someone said above, they are Never happy no matter what the get.I think it is time we went back to GLB and dropped the T. This trannie freak show of homophobes and man haters are a milestone around our necks and we will always have that taint while they are hanging around like a bad smell. Start your own news site and then you can sympathise with each other 24/7/365 and forever and stop annoying sane people. We have enough to contend with from the other homophobes and religious bigots, thank you.
You have no right to speak for anyone but yourself. So get off the bloody cross, we need the wood, old son. Now personally, I don’t subscribe to this kind of hatemongering. I am very well aware that as a lesbian I am a member of a challenged minority (both in terms of my sexuality, and in terms of misogyny being rampant in the LGBT community) – it is not my instinct to try and pay it forward and take it out on someone else who is in a smaller and more abused minority than mine.
If I have ever seen a “bigot” it is YOU!
As a gay man I can not pretend to fully understand the issues or psychology of a trans-person (of whichever gender they are). I accept they are the gender they state that they identify with. I accept they are human beings and entitled to the same rights and fairness that I am entitled to (or that we both should be entitled to!). There should be no difference in the expectations of rights or responsibilities that apply to me as a gay man, a trans person, a white Anglo Saxon heterosexual rugby player or Germaine Greer.
If Germaine Greer as someone who states they understand equality and human rights does not comprehend this, then she needs to intellectualise some more!
This is the ideal of modern feminism – Greer is a relic.
Germaine Greer is a feminist hero.
Women respect her.
Therefore transwomen should respect her.
Unless transwomen are not really women of course.
Yeah, you know what? If someone keeps attacking you, you lose respect for them in a real hurry.
Many feminists feel that the work of Greer and others among the radfems of the second wave has had decidedly mixed consequences. While she highlighted various important concerns which are still relevant today, she has also helped to polarize feminism considerably, such that it lost its appeal for many. With ideas that were restrictively centred on the perspectives and struggles of white middle-class women, a great many women have felt isolated and dismissed by her – not just trans women. The lack of attention given to intersectional issues by Greer and others was an important factor in the emergence of the third wave, partly as a reaction against the second.
David, your argument is pretty much self defeatist – there have been many cis-women on this thread denouncing Germaine Greer as an ill informed dinosaur who is not at all in tune with modern day feminist thinking, Do you therefore think that they should be consigned to the ‘not really women’ garbage bin as well.
Great coverage in the NZ media:
Much better pictures of Germaine on here:
Sounds like Germaine is going down the Janice Raymond route – I’m sorry to even be mentioning her name when my trans brothers and sisters are likely to see it – that vile book of hers, the Transexual Empire, contains similar nonsense – trans women are ‘men who want to colonise female identity’. Julie Bindel is another one…..all that I can think of to explain it is that Germaine et al have never met any trans people or talked to them about their experiences. I’m a gay man and always fighting for the T to be on the end of LGBT, we’re not all like Paddyswurds…..
Thank goodness Matt and thank you for your support. If all gay men were of Paddy’s distorted mind, then you would all probably be still in the closet and afraid of your own sexuality
In her own take on Feminism, Caitlin Moran’s book “How to be a Woman” has the following bit of self-examination regarding her former idol:
“In later years, of course, I would grow Greer-ish enough to disagree with Greer on things that she said: she went off sex in the eighties, opposed the election of a transsexual lecturer at Newnham Ladies College, got a bee in her bonnet about transgender males-to-females, and, most importantly, had a go at “guardian columnist Suzanne Moore’s backcombed hair, which saddened me: I love a bouff.”
Caitlin shows that opinions change generationally, appreciates Greer for what she did in her time, but that like most things, that opinion has become outdated, and based on the opinionated one’s experience and views at the time.
Best just to smile, admire her for what she did, but ignore the outdated bits…
It is also fair to call her on her hypocrisy on human rights!
All the transpeople on here who are laughing at and celebrating this violent, physical assault on an old woman, clearly hate women very much.
She had some glitter chucked at her happens at every pride I’ve ever been to are you suggesting all the spectators there have been subjected to violent physical assault?
If you want to make morally and ethically questionable statements. If you want to insult a whole sector of society you know absolutely nothing about you need to accept that people are going to be angry about this and you need to deal with the fact there are likely to be vociferous, objection. Provided people are not threatening to harm you or those you love then if you can’t deal with that criticsm you need to sit down and shut up no matter who the hell you are and I’ve just given her a lot more safeguards than the trans community get.
Glitter. Oh the humanity.
Jeez hardly painful for the old bint given her comments which are harmful and will full.
“Old bint” – a typical misogynist slur.
Throw some sequins at her next time. Like Krystle and Alexis did at one another in Dynasty.
You’re obviously just a troll.
Thank you dAVID for speaking the truth. They do hate women, thats why they threaten us with violence for not accepting us as one of their own. Threaten an uppity woman with violence? HOW VERY MALE OF YOU!
No, I don’t know one TS who hates women – far from it. I have some very dear and close female friends who I came out to after knowing them for almost thirty years and we have the close bond that most women have with their female friends. I think you are taking this well out of proportion, a wee bit of glitter is hardly violence, not something I would have done personally, but I can understand the reasons behind it.
And how do you know it wasn’t ordinary women who did this, it doesn’t mention it was all trans women involved, it could well have included cis women too.
I’m a trans woman and I would jump at the chance of a uterus and ovaries transplant. I suspect more of us would transition if it were possible, not less! Every trans woman I’ve met wishes she were born with the right organs.
It just feels like Germaine is a little too obsessed with penises…
Julie Bindel, Stonewall + Summerskill, watch out. Divas unite,
I have so much respect for so much of what Germaine Greer says – and not just on sex and gender, she is a great expert on the English language and general history – but she has always been irrational about this. A great shame, as I think she probably does a lot of damage to trans people in women’s/feminist circles.
Queer Avengers – not in my name! You do not ‘glitter’ people I admire in my name… and for comments made in 2009! Slow much? Body dysmorphia is a very strange thing but should not be covered under the gay umbrella as a “gender issue” – it is psychological condition.
Right back at you. I guess the gay male community isn’t immune to transphobia and a whole lot of good old fashioned penis-privilege. And how soon we forget the good old day when all us homos needed was a nice rest in a locked ward (with plenty of ECT, sedatives and beating) to deal with our psychological condition.
This is nothing to be proud of, Craig. This woman’s remarks are taken out of context and, then, she’s assaulted in a community’s name that has, indirectly, benefitted from her feminist thesis?! If she’s anything, she’s an indirect god of pride!! And you should not just assume I intended to be transphobic, especially when you are agreeing that it is a psychological condition. Further, ECT is surprisingly effective treatment for manic depression. Penis-privilege? Yawns and points out Craig is a boy’s name.
You are using a disingenuous argument – a form of ad hominum argument. Shame on you.
What’s your point, caller…? Usually when the opposing argument confirms the statement, that’s game over. Anyway, the crux of what I was not typing is this: “In plainer terms what the academic feminists could be taken to be saying is that (a) you’re a woman if you think you are and (b) you’re a woman if other people think you are. Unfortunately (b) cannot be made to follow from (a).” Not an extravagant statement of hatred towards transsexuals, David. Transsexual response to same: ‘penis-privilege’, fully-recognisable female presentation (or some such), womb-envy and a Hitler comment! Yeah, just like ALL the women I know come out with this crud!! In plainer terms, they cut their privates off to justify their preferred female presentation and it doesn’t bother me one bit, but in doing so, they risk their own lives and it doesn’t make their every dream come true.
I can just imagine her saying afterwards ‘How dare you! Putting glitter in me CHARD onnay!!’ So funny. Germaine-Rage.
Trans-”women” is an inacurate terms since Surgically Altered MEN (SAMs) are NOT women!
Once again MEN are trying to define what women are. They still have XY MALE chromosomes and spent their pre operation lives enjoying MALE privilege.
Just as generic engineering blurs the boundaries between species, the trans movement is trying to blur the distinction between men and women based on biology.
How would people of color feel if there was a white craze: “I am a person of color born in a white body” ? What if whites had surgery and skin color changes to **look like** people of color while claiming to BE people of color?
This so called trans “woman” movement is the latest MENS movement against women and women’s space.
Surgically Altered MEN SAMs) are NOT women and I support Germaine Greer who is NOT “outdated” Her views are as valid as they ever were!
False analogy, and dare I say it a whole lot of cis-gendered privilege up in the room. I’ll assume you’re a non-heterosexual woman, and am asking sincerely if you’ve ever been harassed, assaulted or even raped for “looking like a bulldyke” instead of a “proper feminine woman”? Or is your form of privilege being able to “pass” in straight society, or being able to live and work in lesbian-family communities and workplaces?
Trans-”women” is an inacurate term since Surgically Altered MEN (SAMs) are NOT women!
Just as genetic engineering blurs the boundaries between species, the trans movement is trying to blur the distinction between men and women based on biology.
Surgically Altered MEN (SAMs) are NOT women and I support Germaine Greer who is NOT “outdated” Her views are as valid as they ever were!
oh, you are so funny when you’re wrong! Try apartheid-era south Africa for a trans-colour equivalent. Skin tone, like gender and sexuality, often throws up curve balls. There were many south Africans born into “black” families bu had pale skins or into “white” families but had dark skins. The government, in its nazi geniusness, decided that skin colour determined what race group you were, and many families were torn apart. In later life, individuals would often apply for official recognition of being a different rac.
Epic argument fail on your part, there!
As a post-operative transsexual I can say that every transsexual I have known would have prefered a properly female body, but like most with a physical illness we have to make do with what surgeons can do. Given this I can only assume that Greer does not actually know any transsexuals which I find very comforting. Greer has made a big name and lots of money from inhumane, provocative analysis that promotes disharmony and creates distrust – I thouroughly recomend she is ignored. There is simply no point in engaging with the gay trnsphobes on this site, they ignore anything and are selectively deaf to anything that does not fit neatly with their beliefs. Gays do not have a patent or ownership on glittering: if trans people want to glitter anybody they have a right to do that and gays who don’t like it should piss off and mind their own business.
Captain Hugh, I am listening… Stopped now. Germaine Greer is a Professor Emerita of English, not some terrorist, so I can’t think of a single work of hers that intentionally promoted disharmony and distrust… citation needed, I think. Also I think you are mistaking this stunt as acceptable and that clever people with clever words and phrases who opine should be attacked with glitter for merely giving that opinion… Even if GG was your enemy (and she is not), why would you reprove others for seeking out her ‘provocative analysis’ because knowing your enemy and the way your enemy thinks is paramount to successful battle, Captain. Sorry but should you always engage with transphobes, so that we have a dialogue and may learn from each other… so tut-tut, have you given up!?
You are correct. Gays do not have a patent or ownership on glittering. I support this glittering whole heartedly and I hope Greer is forced by this act to take a long hard look at her own bigotry.
You’re all over my lovely butt, David! Yum. But whilst men of medical science wring their hands of this costly body dymorphia, as unnecessary to both patient and the NHS (my opinion, kill me), then it cannot be bigoted point of view. There is much research needed (like that’ll ever happen!) to understand what is going on with the patient before surgery should even be considered. Again, as above comment, hardly damning. Get all over yourself right away, loverboy ;-)
The term queer used to refer to both homosexuals and trans folk. It’s our terms as much as it is yours. Through much of history we were considered one and the same. Heck many of the taunts are still based on the same idea – that trans women and gay men are lesser beings than straight men because they are seen as being more feminine.
There have always been lgb elements of the lgbt community and femminists who have been against trans rights.
Thankfully the numbers have decreased a lot over time.
However there are still elements in both “communities” as shown by the comments of dAVID and Paddy.
You are both sick bigots for denying trans rights in such an aggressive and demeaning way.
No better than the extremists in the church trying to stop marriage equality.
The transphobia exhibited on this thread is as repulsive as the comments made by Cardinal O’Brien or Archbishop Sentamu about equal marriage for same sex partners.
Coming from people who claim to support human rights it is particularly disappointing.
One presumes these people when they have same sex marriage will think “I’m alright Jack” and won’t be worried about others who still do not encounter equality. Shame on them.
I am also dismayed, but – sadly – not particularly surprised either. There seems to be an aspect of human nature that encourages those who have been badly treated to go on and treat someone else badly. I don’t get it. I really don’t. The idea of victimising someone else just doesn’t compute to me. And let’s be honest, those railing against trans rights are a lot like those who rail against LGBT equality – They have no skin in the game, nothing to gain and nothing to lose, nothing is taken from them, and yet they seem to think that animus is enough to excuse their behaviour. Is treating people like a bloody human being so difficult to some, do they have a deep personal defect that makes them want to feel superior (in other words, are they hopelessly devoid and insecure and feel like they need to lash out).
Right on Valksy.
Like so much destructive behaviour it stems from self hatred.
Hear hear! I totally agree. There is a word for it – hypocrisy. The “I got mine Jack” attittude is so disgusting.
This is nothing more than pig ignorant bxllshit. Google Lilli Elbe (the first sex change op.) and note that the operation was for the transplatation of ovaries – Greer is so ignorant and nasty, with so little regard for the truth. Note that recently an experimental operation occured in China where a man and a woman swapped sexual organs – I don’t know what happened because I’ve heard nothing about it since.
I would be more than happy to receive a uterus and ovaries transplanted inside me with my sex change surgery. Nothing would make me happier and feel more complete as a woman…so Ms Greer go sit on that for a while.
When the technology exists for people with a male expressive phenotype to experience childbirth would that invalidate your femaleness? because it would not, personally I believe gender is false, but anyway you are a woman because you internally feel you are. It your human experience and identification no one can take away, but what you uttered it also sounds like you feel those with female phenotypes without wombs or ovaries but describe themselves are women are not women.
Gender is a Social Construct as is Race be who you want to be people, remember that.
Lilli Elbe the first sex change was an ovaries transplant. FACT. Who’s the liar?Recently in China a trans woman and man exchanged sexual organs. FACT. I’ve heard nothing about it since though.
And what exactly is your 100 percent verifiable scientific evidence that they aren’t women? Many people who are born appearing female are actually genetically male. I suppose you are nasty enough to say they are males – what a nasty excuse for a human being you are. You have considerably less evidence for spouting your ignorant drivel because you almost certainly know little of TS’s.
Good for the Queer Avengers! Germaine doesn’t understand transsexuals at all.
They’re DNA still stays they’re male. They will also never have the real body parts.
Found my comment now. It didn’t show up before.
See two posts below.
For the record, since I can’t find my comment I have absolutely not issue with intersex people at all. It’s just that biologically male people who try to become women are never really women.
If you care to read all the scientific evidence Lumi you will find that the certain specific areas of the brain (Google “brain difference in transsexuals” and read the scientific literature about it for goodness sake). It is the brain that defines us either as men or women, the body is merely a device for keeping the brain alive and functioning. So in that sense we are intersexed – a female mind but born with a male body. We don’t ‘try’ to become women – our minds tell us that we are. Just because we do not menstruate or are capable of growing a baby in a womb does not make us lesser beings – unless you think that any woman who cannot have a child is not a ‘proper’ woman.
brain difference, may I ask do you believe in brain differences between so-called black and white people.
Race and Gender are false it denies you, your true human experience.
Sorry, but you obviously are really ignorant about Intersex as well as trans people…
Please educate yourself.
I don’t know if anyone really takes her seriously any more. She’s a bit sad, really – to have been at the forefront of thought and to now be relegated to crackpot auntie status must be galling…
…if she’s aware of it. Which I doubt.
I don’t agree with bashing her for her rooting peccadilloes (is that any better than her insults to others?) but I do agree that her statements have become increasingly meaningless in terms of anything other than picking fights.
I’m amazed she’s still given so much airtime.
What I really *meant* to say is that her comments seem to be more about focusing attention on herself rather than making any sort of contribution to the conversation about the subject at hand.
I’m hard pressed to think of any of the trans individuals I’ve met giving an actual fuck about whether GG thinks they’re legitimate or not.
She is such a sorry excuse for a woman could never get a man and even ragged older woman who for whatever reason have lost their uterus and or ovaries i think she should just walk right of a cliff somewhere i will say it again such a sorry excuse for a woman.
And has been for over 40 years.
Why on EARTH would this group attack an icon of the disadvantaged gender it claims to be part of?
Yeah, there’s this little technicality that Greer is viciously trans-misogynistic and refuses to even treat trans women as would befit human beings, let alone as women.
She is now a celeb.
It pays her bills.
because she spreads hate?
What do you expect from Greer? She’s from Australia – one of the most homophobic “civilized” countries.
Sergio, as an Aussie , you are spot on and I live here!
Since when is it more homophobic than other “civilised” countries?
I read Germaine Greer’s book about her father, a Murdoch page 3 reporter in the 30s. I think it is called “Daddy, I hardly knew you “, A seriously moving account of the formation of this once formidable thinker. I saw her on a rather tedious talk show here in Australia last week and was surprised at her decline, both her dull responses and her crudity. In this book of hers there are glimpses of her negative attitude to gay men generally.
for me writing from nashville tn and as a 65 year old gay male .. I look at drag queens(and that includes men and women performers) .. differently then I look at transgender person be it male or female .. when I 1st came out in the 70s i learned alot and one of the things I learned is that judge now less you be judged . drag performers are entertaintment .. transgenders are living their life . as who they see and feel themselves to be .. and none of us have a right to judge them …we can like or dislike and that is all we can do
but what is there to dislike .. living your life in the style you wish .. is your business .. and I feel pride when i see someone give their all to a wonderful performance .. or when I met a man or woman who has become the woman or man they feel with their whole being that they are .. just as I dont want someone to judge me because i collect colored glass or like a nice vodka martini .. how can I judge anyone else
we all must look inward
Just another old, over-educated bigot!
Germaine Greer is scum SCUM. Try being queer , severely disabled and a foreigner in a deeply conservative society. Then think about your pretend victim staus Germaine. You are scum of the earth along with your femofascist movement. SCUM SCUM SCUM!!!
This is complete bollocks and doesnt address the actual issues either
How wonderful that in ‘Pink News’, the first comment that appears is an aggressively misoygnist one which endorses social judgment over sexually active women.
I strongly suggest that readers educate themselves as to Greer’s actual position. I don’t agree with everything she has said on trans women – I think she generalises and ignores some immediate benefits of SRS.
However, the fact remains that those idiots who claim she wants people to stick within the ‘prescribed gender roles’ have it backwards. What she is advocating is a society in which there are no longer prescribed roles for the sexes, in which gender is no longer reified as ‘a real thing’ in order to disguise/naturalise women’s oppression. Vanquishing ‘gender’ and women’s oppression would also vanquish homophobia and transphobia. So Greer is, ironically, the one advocating an actual systemic solution to trans oppression and sex dysphoria.
She is smart enough to see that renaming unhappy males as women is no solution…
Except I don’t think that would *be* a solution to ‘sex dysphoria’.
Surely the issue about Gender dysphoria is also related to images we are programmed with about what we ‘should’ be – as opposed to who we FEEL we are…
Would there be any need to surgically realign our bodies if we lived in a world where societal perceptions of gender were not based soley on our perceived genitalia…?
Lets not forget the enormous amount of evidence now mounting of systemic & historical surgical ‘realignment’ of babies born intersex…(which is quite rightly now being questioned and campaigned against)
The use of the SLUT SLUR is totally unacceptable! Thanks for reminding everyone of the misogyny of that.
Michael, to date there is zero evidence that the majority of those who feel more comfortable presenting as the other sex possess any physical condition causing this. Therefore, a compassionate approach needs to be one which recognises that some transsexuals find SRS helpful in the here and now, and also creates systemic change so that young women no longer hate the concept of themselves as women, and so men are free to express/present however they choose without being told that’s wrong for their sex. (We should also bear in mind that many trans-identifying people state that they feel fine with their non-altered genitals. And that some people unhappy with the assigned role of their sex have faced medical and peer pressure to consider themselves trans, later realising they were just nonconformist.)
BTW, an interesting summary on some of the research on a biological basis for transsexualism: http://transhumanoid.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/brain-sex-transsexual-bstc/
@ Anti-genderist an excellent post, gender really does not exist, just like race it is a social construct when pregnancy and child birth become universal experience for all humans being I think it will vanish the fake gender roles if not then the development of cloning and external wombs will do it.
Race does not exist, Gender does not exist.
Wake up people these are social constructs designed to control us take us away from our full human experience be who you want to be.
Auntie-Genderist, if she was really interested in “a society in which there are no longer prescribed roles for the sexes,” she wouldn’t be a transphobe. And you, my dear, lose all credibility and authority to speak on ending transphobia when you refer to trans women as “unhappy males renamed as women.” You’re as much of a transphobe as Greer is. What on earth is wrong with you? Why are you even reading Pink News, you bigot?
“Governments that consist of very few women have hurried to recognise as women men who believe that they are women and have had themselves castrated to prove it, because they see women not as another sex but as a non-sex. ”
What absolute rot. Throw additional glitter!
N.B. Not an incitement to throw glitter on people, I’m just saying if she’d had like a box of glitter thrown on her I wouldn’t have minded.
I don’t know where I’m going with this.
Also, why glitter?
If ever there was a wanna be and parody of a woman, then Germaine Greer is it. Living a lie and being vitriolic about the rights of others is typical of this lump of female that has the nerve to call herself a woman.
Greer said, ““No so-called sex-change has ever begged for a uterus-and-ovaries transplant; if uterus-and-ovaries transplants were made mandatory for wannabe women they would disappear overnight.” — WANNA BET you stupid moron! ANY true Transsexual woman would KILL to have ALL parts of a natural woman if they could have it — but this is NOT possible — yet..! What a pathetically ignorant, dried-up old hag she is..!
I’ve always loved Germaine Greer.
I’ve always admired her feisty intelligence and her fearlessness in approaching the intellectual truth in a subject.
I disagree with her analysis of the issue of this subject though and find her views sadly lacking in any kind of deep thought.
I agree with another poster on here that drag queens ARE a mockery of womanhood – all full of cliches and stereotypes and lacking any genuine understanding of what ‘female’ actually in reality means (misunderstanding, even, their own femininity and wrapping it in a stereotypical cloth cut from the ignorance of misogyny.)
Of course there is a debate to be had (and actively BEING had by the Transgender community itself) about the very nature of gender and how legitimate it is to separate the world into two rigid boxes of ‘male’ and ‘female’ given the evidence of so much spectrum in between.
Drag queens are performers. If you don’t get drag, that’s fine, but this specious, faux-political analysis of what they represent, and what their role is in queer culture, is neither wise, insightful nor accurate.
…mine or Germaine Greer’s?…I disagree either way…
(perhaps, instead of focusing on what you THINK I may be ‘doing’, why don’t you actually read what I’m SAYING…
Drag Queens are far from being ‘just’ performers – not all of them ‘perform’ in the theatrical sense – but they are a mockery of womanhood – its a twisted, skewed vision of what ‘feminine’ means as seen thru the eyes of gay men…
Arguably Germaine Greer was expressing her own thoughts on the subject – the problem is that she’s doing so in an information vacuum. It would help if she had engaged in a debate with a Queer Studies expert first – although its never too late.
Mind you, can I just say that basing a glittering on something she said in 2009 seems a bit harsh…
She is telling lies that she feels like telling. Nobody can have regard for that, even the supposedly factual part is untrue. Oh, and she’s been doing it for many years, your in her image aren’t you, too pig ignorant to actually check what is true!!!
I think calling staircase pig ignorant is a bit harsh for the comment he/she left. I’d go one step further than staircase and say that trans folk are trans, not male or female, like intersex, they are a different gender. I don’t think being trans gender is something bad, it just is, like being male gender or female gender, or intersex gender. So personally I think when someone who is born male says they are female, it seems strange, because they are obviously partly male, as they were born male. They may change their genitals to look female, and may act in a way in which they are seen as female, but they are never fully female, they are still partly male. The recent case of the girl who became a guy and then had a baby being a case in point. He is not male gender, as guys don’t have babies. He is trans gender. I think that trans blurs the boundaries of gender, so to then fall back into the normative gender roles seems ridiculous. I also think Greer is wrong to say what she did.
Did you actually read anything that I said ‘Hannah’…? (Is it you writing that or the other person copying your posts?)
I can assure you Im neither ignorant nor …er…pig lol – READ BEFORE YOU TYPE EH?
Staircase, she’s been pretty consistent over the years and simply hasn’t changed from the 60′s / 70′s. It’s that consistency that deserves the glitterbombing….and it is a very mild form of protest….
F~~k all Binary Gender, just like race does not really exist, it’s all about the human experience very soon every will be able fuse gametes even clone our selves and give birth if the technology for external womb. But for anyone that cannot wait a few male rights activist are reseaching male pregnancy . Pregnancy and child birth is not a female experience and it will eventually become a human with everyone experience it.
I stopped paying attention to Germaine Greer years ago. As she passed through menopause, she wrote as if she was the first woman ever to fully understand the experience. Silly really – much like her comments here.
Greer claimed to have had a hysterectomy in her 20′s.
That’s probably true from the death threats I’ve seen.
Death threats to who?
To hell with Binary Gender
Gender does not exist neither does Race, IT IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT we are ll more alike than different just be who want to be, pregnancy and child birth will soon no longer be the domain of cis-gendered female it will be a human experience for everyone.
It’s pretty obvious that Greer has far less of an understanding of oppression than she would like to think…
I may be white, male and het but I am also poly, neuro-diverse and working class. I understand the shared history of oppressed groups (hell we were all branded with triangles at one point), and realise the way to combat oppression, whether it be homophobia, transphobia, racism, sexism or ablism, is through solidarity and mutual aid in our struggles. It’s clear that Greer doesn’t grasp this very simple concept.
Gender, Race and Class are social constructs designed to deny us of our total human experience.
The development of pregnancy for all people will end the fake gender distinctions it will end male and female mantra
We are one we should celebrate that
Destroy Binary Gender roles, it kills us and robs us of our true humanity.
Gender does not exist
Race does not exist
Both are social constructs robbing us of our true human experience be who want to be.
Support Kony 2012
Sex stereotypes are harmful. If we lived in a world where they didn’t exist, males and females would be free to be as they are. Instead, the Trans Lobby wants to formalize into law that there are “ways of being” that go along with biological sex. This is harmful and anti-feminist. I am grateful for Germaine Greer’s leadership and view.
That is a disservice to all woman, regardeless of race, gender, … I can’t see Greer as nothing else then a disgracefull and as mutch out of touch as the patrtriachal society that she abhors. Anything but a leader, ., a fuhrer maybe
I hadn’t known she had such transphobic views and I’m quite shocked by that. My main argument with her over the years is her contribution to the devaluing of the role of Mother, as if to be a Mother is somehow a second class occupation to having a career.
In my opinion being a PARENT, if that is what you have chosen to be, should be the main focus of your life, not your career, which after all is just a means to make a living. The same should be so whether you are a Mother or a Father.
I understand that she has never found the time to have children herself, I saw her say as much in an interview once.
Pretty hypocritical to call Transexual women fakes because they don’t have the means to have children when she has had the means to do that all these years and has not bothered because she has spent her life trying to live the lifestyle of a man, while devaluing the efforts of those women who have taken on the task of becoming Mothers.
Gender and Race are social constructs
Don’t forget high-rise buildings, while you’re at it; they’re a social construct too, and don’t exist either
The Human Identity is very fluid, to hell with binary gender and race.
High Rise Buildings just like Race and Gender are human-made/social constructs, people belief they exist on there own like they have always been it was created by people, they can be taken down by people.
The day technology becomes available for all people to change their eyecolor, increase/decrease melanin content and for all human beings to experience childbirth/pregnancy, these false race and gender labels will cease to exist. To hell with Binary Gender, To Hell with Race
Isn’t Germaine Greer dead YET? What is she, three hundred years old now? She’s like the Fempire Lestat. Someone open the blinds and let in some sunlight.
You really are a bundle of joy aren’t you…
Sad. every day I wish I could get pregnant (even for a period, my partner thinks hers is gross and can’t understand why I would want one). Not a day goes by I don’t wish I could have my own kids. So Ms Greer, go away and take your hate somewhere else.
If transgender isn’t a challenge to prescribled gender roles – where for almost all people, biology is destiny – then what could it possibly be? Of course the idea that a person’s gender isn’t determined by their biological status at birth is utterly and wholly subversive of prescribed gender roles. Transgender is all about insisting that an individual’s construction of their own gender is primary, not conforming to traditional monogender ‘prescribed gender roles’ as Greer would have us do. Transgender, at its radical best, is the very opposite of adhering to ‘prescribed gender roles’.
Radical transgender existence takes place completely outside those roles, and invents new and more interesting representations of gender that suit individuals, their desires and choices.
I’ve always liked Greer, Her contribution to feminisim has been phenomenal. But on this issue, poor Germaine is so out of line.
The idea that anatomy is destiny is one of the myths that feminism set out to destroy. How ironic that Greer has ended up defending this obsolete idea.
Give it a rest Germaine and join us in appreciating and celebrating diversity in gender as in all things
“No so-called sex-change has ever begged for a uterus-and-ovaries transplant; if uterus-and-ovaries transplants were made mandatory for wannabe women they would disappear overnight”
She’s sadly mistaken about that part. Me for one would go to great lengths to make it possible to be able to give life. On another not ovaries and utherus don’t make a woman
When the technology exists for people with a male expressive phenotype to experience childbirth would that invalidate your femaleness? because it would not, personally I believe gender is false, but anyway you are a woman because you internally feel you are. It your human experience and identification no one can take away, but what you uttered it also sounds like you feel those with female phenotypes without wombs or ovaries but describe themselves are women are not women.
Forget about what everyone else is saying and doing and find your own truth. Be an individual of the Earth rather than that of a social construct that seeks to ‘divide and separate’.Get rid of the old and what doesn’t work, and create the new and what works best for YOU as an individual; once that is reached, a society that is more tolerant and open with be created. Let’s move forward, not backward; and do so as a ‘human being’, not as one whom over identifies with social constructs and outdated beliefs. What does it mean to be human?Gender does not exist neither does Race, IT IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT we are ll more alike than different just be who want to be, pregnancy and child birth will soon no longer be the domain of cis-gendered female it will be a human experience for everyone.Gender, Race and Class are social constructs designed to deny us of our total human experience,Destroy Binary Gender roles, it kills us and robs us of our true humanity.
I just find it strange that people can attach such monumental importance to dangly bits of skin and what the current gender social construction might happen to be. It seems such trivial and uninteresting stuff to fill a wonderful the universe is filled with wonderful stuff and being a concious human being is a marvellous thing. I certainly wouldn’t want to waste my fantastic but short lived privilege of being human on obsessing over dicks and cunts thing like human conciousness with.
So she thinks that trans women aren’t women because they don’t have ovaries and a uterus?
Funny… I bet she doesn’t have a problem with women born without ovaries, etc, or women who’ve had hysterectomies!
As a transwoman, I do not feel that myself or any other woman that does not have a uterus and/or ovaries is in any way any less of a woman. However, and I only speak for myself, if uterus and ovaries could be part of the reassignment surgery, I would jump at the chance, although, perhaps I would not want them if they had previously been in some one else.