Half of the Arab states don’t even have basic rights for Women. I think getting gay rights there is a long way off.
Indeed – but not a reason not to start advocating and confronting.
Perhaps at the UN and international levels, but not in all countries, I am a long time LGB activist, but I think that going for LGBT rights in most African and Islamic countries is counter-productive at this point. The only safety that local LGBT’s have is by staying hidden and keeping quiet, as if they don’t exist. We have seen a number of countries where raising the LGBT rights issue already has provoked a backlash, with dire consequences. Genocide may yet be a result.
In these countries, the best strategy is to promote women’s rights and rule of law. Women are too numerous to ignore or to exterminate, and experience in Western countries has shown that LGBT rights have only been possible where gender roles have loosened up and rule of law is respected..
Although, as has been pointed out elsewhere, that wasn’t the case in Gaddafy’s Libya, where many women had occupations – as his guards, for example – that would be unthinkable in most other Islamic states.
Andrew, you have made a very telling point. In most African and Islamic countries, women are second class citizens, if that. Womens’ liberation in Africa and the Arab world will bring on the freedoms and rights for GLTBI people. I think there will be a long wait though.
So members of the OIC say gay rights have nothing to do with fundamental human rights, how wrong you backward thinking people are!
People are born gay, it is not a choice. As Stonewall have said, somepeople are gay, get over it!
funny how those same startes seem to think nothing of slavery and for a man to have sex with his male slave (forced or otherwise) is acceptable, funny twisted minds. do they think anyone would choose to be gay when you are treated as sub-human, it would be a lot easier to conform and marry someone of the oposite sex, but dam. if I wanted pussy, (vomit) I would get a cat. I am gay and proud.
Having grown up in India and having lived in Pakistan I can state categorically that what is trumpeted in public has nothing to do with practice among people. Before official Pakistan starts to get too holier-than-thou, I remind them that they have a wretched record of using Islam as an excuse to persecute and dispossess their Christian minority of land, a practice universally condemned by Islamic scholars. The assassination of their Christian minorities Minister has produced mob violence and no justice. So the objection of the Pakistanis to rights for minorities is humbug and claptrap and must continue to be over-ridden. Qaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah will be turning in his grave at these antics of his lamentable successors.
It’s time you all went off and read The Cairo Declaration. Then you will understand what is going on with muslim countries. They rejected universal human rights 20 years ago. It is racist of you to ignore their express declaration. It’s as if black people said they wanted equal civil rights, and you just ignored them. Please accord muslims some respect, and take their declarations seriously.
Sorry, but last time I checked, homophobia wasn’t an intrinsic part of anyone’s race. You’re making a straw man argument.
Your argument in flawed.
“It is racist of you to ignore their express declaration”.
Explain how is it racist ?
I have read the Declaration to which you refer. Mere insistence on a point doesn’t make it right and I’m surprized that you think it can. race/biology doesn’t come into it. Where, Alan, would your argument be if you couldn’t play the tired and irrelevant race card? No-where, that’s where. You actually have nothing to say, do you?
You dare to call contributors racist – when they are speaking up about monsters who deny their neighbours civil & human rights accorded to the rest of the world –
If they have rejected Human Rights then why are they even apart of this debate?
Firstly, the UK has engaged in treaties and declarations in the past that were wrong and it was right that people campaigned against them.
Secondly, it is because I respect gay Muslims that I join others in seeking universal human rights regardless or orientation (or race, religion, gender etc etc)
Thirdly, I find your suggestion that being Muslim means being homophobic veering towards Islamophobia (and since you seem to regard being Muslim a race – I don’t – potentially racist, at least the intent to segregate on perceived racial grounds is there).
Fourthly, human rights can not be removed by any state, organisation, individual or religion whether they make a declaration or not. The rights remain – all they do is suppress the human rights of individuals and treat them in a subhuman manner. The rights remain because they are inate.
“the oics!” How very apt!
““The opposition to the discussion expressed by the OIC is a timely reminder that, for them, the Universal Declaration on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights do not apply universally. ”
Another shameful day for the OIC. No wonder so many people across many islamic and african states are now in revolt of their opressed dictatorships and are taking action! People will not stand for it. Their arrogance is breath taking!
You are living in fairyland. The people there will replace their regimes with MORE religious government, not less. Get real, most Muslim countries have the level of religious indoctrination that Europe or the Western world has not seen since the 1700′s, and yes, it is much worse than in the US Bible belt.
Just think they want our business, look at how they have the football world cup in one of these counties that treat us as sub-human, I would hope that all LGBT refuse to go and ask their straight friends not to go.
Unfortunately it actually looks very much as though we want their business rather more.
No surprise that walk outs came from the Muslims scum who think they can bully the world with their misogyny and bigotry and anti gay backward minds.
Time to outlaws these superstitions and drag these monsters into the 21st century – or put them out of their misery.
“deeply concerned by the introduction in the Human Rights Council of controversial notions like ‘sexual orientation and gender identity’
How can they even think things like this, the fools?
Incidentally, if gender identity is so ‘controversial’, why is it so easy to get reassignment surgery in Iran?
Lance Price, Director of the Kaleidoscope Trust, said: “This is a milestone development. The UN Commissioner for Human Rights has made it clear that there can be no ifs and no buts. The rights of LGBT people are not special rights. They are the same basic human rights to which everybody is entitled. The debate starts here.”
Sweet music to my ears.
Well of course they walked out, they don’t want us to stop them enjoying the games they actually enjoy; like Lynchawaythegay and the all time favourite Gangrapetheles. How could anyone be so unfair on them.
Good to see the Humanists standing up, as always, for LGBT rights.
Your repeated flag waving for humanists is beginning to look as though you are proselytizing with religious fervour for humanism
Why shouldn’t he? Apathy in the face of what seems to be a global religious revival isn’t going to get us very far.
I agree that apathy is not important. Most of the time I agree with what George has to say. We certainly have to stand up to the likes of the Cardinals and Archbishops (and the reprehensible Christian Institute and the like).
I think I get what Barry might have been getting at though. It can seem that drum beating for humanists is a bit like seeking to convert people and has a religious air to it.
I don’t know what Barry’s motives were but my slant on this is that George just needs to take care not to slip into similar behaviour and attitudes that annoy us about extreme religious people. Some humanists have done this in the past and wrongly made humanism a quasi religion.
I don’t think that is George’s intention, but I can see where Barry might be coming from.
“Your repeated flag waving for humanists is beginning to look as though you are proselytizing with religious fervour for humanism”
I am not ashamed to promote the Humanist outlook as a gay-friendly rational alternative to the anti-gay one taken by most religions.