We say “it gets better”. They say “it won’t, we demand the right to treat you as inferior second class citizens.” And then we wonder why people get hurt? And groups like this odious coalition grant permission for people to be openly homophobic. This behaviour is no different from giving the KK a platform upon which to stand when mixed race marriage was being fought for in the US. It is hate speech, pure and simple, and it is going to make my community bleed.
The increase in extreme religiosity is the biggest threat to civilisation, to Man, and to the world.
But the pope would have us believe that a few gay people getting married in monogomous relationships is worse than global warming. But he would say that wouldn’t he?
If I learn absolutely nothing else today at least I now know what rhizome means.
This article is spot on apart from the bit about Keith O’Brien being a 73 year old virgin, I think it’s more likely that Jesus will rise again (and I don’t believe in Jesus).
…I leaned the hard way, speaking from personal distressing experience of having knotweed in the back garden of my previous home!
I currently have knotweed but after 5 years I seem to be finally killing it off!
Thanks for a well thought out piece which confirms and reinforces concerns that I and others have been expressing over the last week or more about C4M.
The likes of Colin Hart and Andrea Minichiello Williams are becoming more and more brazen in their tactics. Could it be because they are becoming more and more desperate as the country recognises that their views are wrong, odious and damaging to the fabric of society? Could it be that they feel their comfortably intolerance and bigotry is being threatened?
Lets continue to threaten them and ensure that the UK NEVER becomes a theocracy or allows religious fundamentalists and extremists to subvert or jeopardise democracy and fairness.
Equality means fairness for all. Human rights can not be half supported. Equality does not mean special exemptions from law based on religious “superiority”.
Great article. I’m convinced we have already won – but lets continue the fight to ensure that there is no doubt that equality wins
I say this as a gay Christian. As someone who is passionate about his faith. Extremists like Hart, Saunders and the like are totally wrong.
Their example of Christianity is a perversion of my understanding.
Human rights and compassion are key principles in my faith. I support you entirely in your actions, Adrian and will do everything I can to see equal marriage succeed on every level.
To me, the C4M is nothing more than a hate group using religion as a front, fomenting hatred, intolerance and denial of basic rights for LGBT people. I think it’s time for a counter attack and expose them for what they really are, bigots and hatemongers.
I agree C4M is just a front for hatred and seeking to perculate hate across society. They will not win!
I would add (as a Christian) that I think they pervert my faith and are seeking to spread heresy. (I expect many on here would not necessarily endorse this point).
I do though ally myself with your call to stand up and fight and oppose the hatemongers. A counter attack that is organised, strident and above honourable. One that is not scurrilous and underhand like the C4M. I cautiously say I will happily be involved in any way I can (bearing in mind there might be some anti religion sentiment that I do not agree with – although I entirely endorse anti fundamentalism and anti bigotry).
The hate MUST stop. We must oppose it.
I am of the opinion that, once the battle for marriage equality is won, then the next cause should be outlawing homophobia by making it a specific criminal offence.
It was a long time since we established the principle that racism was morally wrong, and to have that codified in the Law of the Land. Now I think we deserve the same level of protection. There are those in our community who believe that we should not do this, and defeat them by argument – but I disagree. The argument is already won now, and there is no further discussion to be had. The time has now come for us to stop intolerance and homophobia now, with full force of the criminal law.
I agree, ursus
I dont want to assume the battle is won until the law is changed to make marriage equal though. The battle over hearts may be largely won – but the battle is not over until its real.
Its perfectly clear that the C4M is religious. EVERY piece of evidence points to this and it is only a murky, underhand and subertive organisation that would try and deny this.
I would have thought committed Christians would have wanted to obey their Bible (not hide their faith under a bushel). However, the public denials of Christian invovlement in C4M is telling. It demonstrates that the truth does not matter to the coalition. It demonstrates that lies are acceptable to them. It demonstrates that underhand and devious methods are the tools or their trade.
The Cardinal this weekend did no better, he twisted and manipulated the words of the UN declaration on human rights to try and make it fit his own twisted world view. He ended up making part of it say something almost the polar opposite of its real meaning.
The is a strong whiff of an offensive smell about the C4M. There is a murky and slimy appearance to them and a lack of any public accountability or sense of ….
… honest, integrity or compassion about the coalition. The is a sense of the mafia about them with the underhand and subvertive measures they are using. Clearly the petition itself does have SOME genuine signatures. Clearly there is good reason to have cause to be concerned about others being added by deception or deliberately to try and mislead.
The C4M must be stopped. I am convinced the UK is ready for equality for LGBT people in full. Our time is here.
Thank you for that Adrian. It deserves a broader audience. Have you thought of sending it in to “Comment is Free” at the Grauniad?
I strongly think he should. Second that!
Thank you (all) for the kind comments. It is tempting to offer it to CiF and get the equivalent of three bottles of Laphroaig for it. However, most CiF articles have to be condensed into 900 words, and often the language has to be ‘moderated’. On this occasion, it requires detail, solid reasoning and a strong tone. We have to reply in kind. PinkNews is right platform for an article like this. On reflection, I should have given more emphasis to the increasingly globalised network of fundamentalism too.
I really want to mobilise people, get them off their backsides. Our opponents are very disciplined. Sometimes I feel like I am herding cats. But seriously – it’s time for the liberal majority to get organised. We need to get our stories out. We have a fight like we’ve never seen ahead of us.
This is a real battle that we need to mobilise for, Adrian
Thats why some of the battle requires co-ordination. We need to be media savvy in publicising our protests properly. We need to get our message out.
We need a mix of events such as a calm respectful vigil as you suggested elsewhere on here. Walk outs from RC masses on Sunday would be a good stunt (but the media need to publicise it too). We also need to get the reasonable and responsible message out to MPs, the public at large etc that the anti equal marriage campaign is wrong and that it is based on theocratic principles.
Some stunts might be a good thing in publicising the message eg fathers of justice created some great media opportunities.
Great article. Love it. How do we move on? Not that it should be all you responsibility, but any ideas?
Brilliant and very preceptive article
Adrian. Thank you – a well structured piece. It does underline how we, as a community, need to be aware of what these bigots are up to. They are relentless and will never give up. I am sure they are spreading their poison on sites like this hoping to goad us into intemperate replies so that they can complain and try to get us shut down. So remember folks, don’t give them what they want. Argue against them but don’t abuse them. Give them enough rope to hang themselves.
They’re beginning to sound like their American counterparts on the so called “christian” far right. It’s frightening to think they’re thriving in the UK.
Aren’t there any experts out there to counter their arguments with the evidence, scientific or otherwise? What scares me is knowing that some of these very people sit in Parliament and in the House of Lords and could well influence a negative outcome for marriage equality. They seem to be well funded and organised. Maybe an investigation into their funding sources might be in order, as well as their donor base, names and address provided and published for all to see. If any are coming from other countries, in particular the United States, then perhaps this is a matter for the Home Office to take up. It has already banned several undesirables from entering the UK, so why not ban foreign contributions or better yet, shut down these hate groups altogether? They do nothing but foment homophobia and hatred of gay people.
One of the most stupid and twisted articles I’ve read this year! You’re terrified that healthy views will eventually prevail in society, aren’t you?
What “healthy” views are those? That it’s OK for some citizens to be considered second class?
No Ku, actually you and the coalition for bigoted views on marriage are terrified that your simplistic, infantile view of the world is being seen for what it truly is, and that you look like fools to an increasingly educated majority who can see through your hateful views, now they are not being force fed the beliefs of a slave religion.
So Ku nt why are you and your fellow retards so obsessed with the sex and the relationships we have? – because you do all think about it too much, given your ‘moral’ stand point.
Healthy views would be ‘Live and let live’ and an old Xtrian turn of phrase ‘turn the other cheek’ so when did so called ‘people of god’ get so monstrous, and inhuman with regard to ‘their fellow man’???
These are not “people of God”.
They ditched him at the alter of bigotry a long time ago, hiding behind their holy scribblings as an excuse for their own
You will find that their Gods view always matches their own, whether it is in their scriptures or not and if it is not
they will only perceive the translation that fits their bigotry or just make one up as we have seen so clearly recently.
As far as I am concerned, religious belief is a severe mental deficiency and anyone holding such ludicrous beliefs should NOT be in any position of power.
Thanks for your concern about my mental health! I do not regard my faith as evidence of mental illnes – nor does the Royal College of Psychiatrists. We will agree to disagree, and I will side with the RCP!
I agree the fundamentalist zealots are not “people of God”.
I also agree a theocracy is wrong and what these irresponsible and obsessive people seek.
We must stop them.
The opposition needs to be careful and be organised and should ideally be of both non religious and religious elements.
We need to expose them from outside and within!
What, like young earth creationism, treating the morning-after pill as a murder weapon and demon possession? Way to go!
Its one of the best articles I have seen in quite some time!
Healthy views will prevail in society when fairness and honesty prevail.
Its clear that the C4M and other extremists are the ones seeking to pollute the nation and subvert democracy. Its time responsible Christian leaders such as the Bishop of Salisbury spoke out for UK Christians (it is his views on equal marriage that the vast majority of people agree with).
Its time the charlatan and heretical organisations such as C4M and Christian Institute were exposed. Thank you Adrian for your part in this!
No, we are worried that bitter and twisted views of a handful of misguided people that believe in ludicrously outdated scriptures might continue to suppress and subdue a society that thinks that it’s about time for a change.
It is a typical underhand trick of those who are exercising bigotry to claim that they are, in fact, the victims. It doesn’t ring true when you hear white, English speaking males bemoaning their fate in this country. It sounds just as hollow when it comes from others who are concerned not that their rights are being taken away, but their perceived loss of status when others are granted the same rights. I have not heard one explanation as to how granting marriage equality to same sex couples has an adverse effect on existing or future heterosexual marriages. Until I do, I will continue to see all of this bleating as nastiness and evil and the people who support those institutions the same.
There’s an opposing petition to C4M that you might like to sign here:
A straight relative asked me to sign this petition today. Good news , I didn’t think he was interested in the issue.
Signed – by one of the 61% of Christians who support gay marriage.
The more I read about this coalition for marriage and their unholy alliance, the more I feel we should take the battle to them. Not in any piecemeal approach but organised, co-ordinated and with passion and determination.
I’m in! How are we going to do it?
I’m up for suggestions!
What I do know is it needs to be rooted in honesty and expose the untruths and petulence of the fundamentalists
I wouldn’t mind looking in to there happy marriages show the hypocrisy of it all to the world.
Something fishy going on with the ‘Coalition For Marriage’ website!
In two weeks the site has clocked up over 100,000 signatories and yet the site only gets 300 hits per day???
See hits here: http://tinyurl.com/6rco4dc
Absolutely something fishy going on Craig
Time we all got together and sorted them!
Grassroots? Time to get out the weedkiller. An excellent piece. Well done!
Beautifully written and empowering! This piece added to my armoury of knowledge against c4m, so thank you for that.
Good WILL prevail :o)
The suspense is killing me.
Has anyone asked the question about who Colin Hart of the Christian Institute lives with? I think you might find the answer interesting!!
I shall go for a walk in Gosforth since its just 20 mins away and see who I can see him with!
Remember me to Gosforth, Stu. I lived there 30+ years ago.
Yes, but they are not practising. (Maybe they have got it right at last.)
The 192 website has what might possibly be relevant here:
Poops, looks like the link isn’t completely working.
Just drop in the name ‘Colin Hart’ in Gosforth Tyne & Wear.
All will then be revealed…
Property Price1 Colin John Hart
Age Guide: 45-49 Tyne And Wear
Other Occupants John Burn 2002
Was that the info you had in mind?
Wonder if that is this John Burn:
Why who does he live with?
Colin Hart lives with John Burn. Are they just merely business partners??
Excellent article! Kicks these S.O.B.s firmly where it hurts!
Please expose these revolting extremists; tweet this article or share it via facebook.
If nothing else this debate is forcing these people from behind facade they usually manage to hide behind.
If they want to make an impact maybe they should have one of their number debate with Richard Dawkins or someone similar?
Far easier to gay bash though than combat rationality? Isn’t it guys and gals?
As good as Richard Dawkins can be, I think the cause for equal marriage would be advanced further if it were someone who is strong but not as polar an opposite as Dawkins. I just worry that the debate could degenerate and that equal marriage could be lost in a debate that could move into other areas.
Dawkins is a coward. He ducked out of debates with William Lane-Craig who woul wipe the floor with him
Can we get a money trail for these people? Are they US-funded? Is the Catholic church a donor? C4M’s roll of private UK donors must be tiny, but US conservatives would hate to see the UK join Canada in marriage equality.
However they’re funded, we need a coordinated effort to refute the junk science and misinformation they’re pushing.
Stonewall likes to work quietly behind the scenes. But I’m not sure that’s the right strategy this time. This is a hung parliament. There are the votes to carry a coalition equality motion with Labour support, but Cameron may try to avoid this fight if he fears a large rebellion by the Tory mainstream. And an opposition motion would probably fail.
To get equality through in this parliament, we need to bring along mainstream Tories; not just Times readers, but some from the Express and Telegraph. The viciousness of the anti crowd is helping make our case, but we need to make this a conservative argument: decency, freedom and minding your own business.
I am beginning to think this is the time for direct action where the C4M and linked organisations are concerned. Legal and legitimate but interrupting and preventing their work. Interfering (legally) with their everyday business and exposing them for the vile, underhand and sinister people that they are.
I am gay and I signed the petition.
The C4M must not be stopped as one person said on here, homosexuals must accept that they have been catered for by Civil Partnership, if we continue to bully people, they will turn more hostile on us and hate us even more and that is something that we do not need.
Are you really gay or pretending to be?
Bearing false witness is a sin?
This is a tactic that “Christians” have tried before!
It certainly is when he can’t even type his own name “Michael” correctly…
Maybe his parents couldn’t spell. It happens and would explain a lot.
“homosexuals must accept that THEY”
Right there you give yourself away, you consider yourself to be separate to homosexuals. So you’re either a pathetic, self loathing, idiot or you’re not gay.
I don’t want to be “catered for” I just want the same rights as everybody else.
The only bullying at work here is from the lunatic, homophobic, religious, freaks, not LGBT people (and not the vast majority of religious people either). Until we start to here stories of religious, homophobes killing themselves and being ostracized by their community I suggest you shut up.
I am a gay. And so is my wife!
“I am gay and I signed the petition.”
I seriously doubt it.
No one gay uses the term “homosexuals” to describe themselves.
Better luck next time.
JK – This is nothing to be proud of
. . .
“The C4M must not be stopped”
JK – C4M, will be stopped for peddling twisted propaganda about LGBT people
. . .
“as one person said on here, homosexuals must accept that they have been catered for by Civil Partnership, if we continue to bully people, they will turn more hostile on us and hate us even more and that is something that we do not need.”
JK – No one needs to be shackled by fear, and resigned to a position as a second class citizen.
Too much information is a very good thing! But requires so much additional reading! A great article and long overdue – thank you, thank you!
Know your enemy, indeed.
Its really important that we stay on top of this and confront it. Adrians article is incredibly important in exposing the C4M.
I am no fan of Conservatives. I must say though that the formation of this group is a testament to David Cameron’s conservatives. It seems they unlike their US counterparts truly understand about separation of Church and State. For that I congratulate them.
As for the bigots they have a problem. They have abandoned their religious excuses. They are open to view as the bigots they are. Lawyers have ready made arguments provided from the Prop 8 Trial in the US to highlight why this is hate and nothing else by this group.
Other understanding by the Tories shows why this hate group cannot prevail. No going back to Clause 28 under Cameron.
This is a last ditch effort by a desperate group of haters who are trying to pretend they are not on the wrong side of history.
These pockets of hate will have to be continually fought. People around the world have inreasingly rejected this hate. Just like with racism and other hate.
For these reasons I think this group will fail.
I have reported Stuart Ross to Tyneside police for potential Harassment and intimidation of the members of the christian institute.
Also James Lattimore of c4em.org.uk will be required by Nominet to display his details on domain registration, as he is a data holder, being that he is collecting peoples details. Nominet has been alerted.
Oh and a nice rip off of the original web design of C4m, have advised them to apply for it t be taken down as its a blatant rip off of their design with just the colors changed.
Don’t like losing arguments and endless court cases, do you, Matthew. When gay mariage becomes reality come back here so we could tell you ‘told you so’.
British people don’t like extreme religionism
I look forward to speaking to the police then Matthew. Perhaps some counter claims of inciting hatred can be made, if and when the police decide its appropriate to speak to me. Maybe they might prefer to speak to you about wasting police time?
Counter claims cannot be made, until first matter has been looed at, surly as an ex cop you should know that.
Having opinions, is not hatred, its called having an view, of which you Stu have a lot, and most of them are hate of people of Christian descent who disagree with your lifestyle choice.
Being that you have placed on here, in text that you said:
Stu about 2 hours ago
Thumb up Thumb down +1
I would call that intended harassment, and I have printed it off and faxed it to the Police…and The Christian Institute.
Then you know nothing about law if you believe counter claims can not be made.
I entirely agree with you that having opinions is not hatred, its how you frame and publicise those opinions and what the motivation is behind them, what you seek, what the outcome is. How subvertive you are. You are pretty subvertive, matthew – many on here would testify to that! There certainly is enough to raise an investigation and I look forward if you are being honest and have made a complaint about me to detailing my counter claims and the executing their duty and fully invesitgating all sides of the investigation in an impartial manner. If you have made a complaint they will have your details and be able to arrest you if necessary. I look forward to it.
It seems you are a bit up tight if you think walking in Gosforth is harassment. Thats certainly not my understanding of the protection from harassment act 1998.
Or maybe you fear Colin Hart has something to hide?
Which police service?
Have they contacted you in response?
Just a second, Matthew. You wrote that being gay is Stuart’s lifestyle choice. So, I presume that being straight is your lifestyle choice. Just so that we are all quite clear about your orientation will you please tell us when you made that choice – the choice to be heterosexual, that is – and what it felt like. How old were you when you made the choice and do you ever regret choosing such a lifestyle? When you had your first heterosexual experience with a real girl was it satisfying or did you consider reviewing and changing your decision at that point? Has knowing that you have a choice of sexualities – according to you – had a big impact on your life? It would also be a great help to everyone here to know why you chose to be heterosexual rather than gay – what sort of ideas and reasoning influenced your choice?
So that I do know it is the police contacting me about your complaint, perhaps you would show such courtesy as to confirm your full name. After all, you have mine …
Or perhaps you could confirm the incident number at the police service you reported it to (and confirm which police service) if from some reason you feel hesitant and insecure about confirming your real identity
Look forward to hearing from you (and the police!)
I only know your name, because you force it out in public with your agenda to harass, and belittle those who have an opposing view and thoughts to you and your lifestyle choice.
You don’t need to know the complainers name, just that I have complained about you, and have asked the Christian Institute to do the same.
So your name is … or the incident number from the police?
Matthew . . . so if you have reported Stu to the police, what name did you use?
More school yard idle threats from Matthew the bigot.
Go on then.
Lets see what you can do.
I’m laughing at you.
That Matthew is a bit of a twat.
“Oh and a nice rip off of the original web design of C4m, have advised them to apply for it t be taken down as its a blatant rip off of their design with just the colors changed.”
So you wish to have the Coalition close this site down. Would that not be a bit hypocritical of those within it who cry they can’t have their opinion heard without reprisal to then close down an opposing voice to their own?
Basing your attack on the platform of something you have nicked from someone else, isn’t the best start to something that you want people to take notice of or support. Web Site Content theft is and can be classed as Intellectual property theft, is different than the theft of physical property. Instead, it involves stealing or misusing proprietary information a company (or person) owns.
From what I myself have read on Twitter and Journals, its being treated as IP theft. Not a good thing to be linked with when your trying to start a campaign to show people that homosexuals are good, or equal.
David Cameron’s plan to redefine marriage was compared to Tony Blair’s ban on fox hunting — something that dogged Tony Blair’s time as British Prime Minister, it was hugely controversial and something Tony Blair later said he wished he’d never started. Here is hoping that Cameron doe sthe same…
You just don’t get human rights do you … I hope you never have to …
However, your argument is stale, outmoded, inhumane and lost
You have lost.
You are a loser.
Its gone. LGBT people ARE human beings and equal. The government are going to ensure that.
Matthew, you have lost!
LGBT people are DIFFERENT, a different orientation cannot be equal.
I have not lost a all Stuart, The government are going to do whats right for the government, and it will not be Same Sex Marriage. Watch this space. Tony Blair’s ban on fox hunting, never happened, Cameron’s obsession with homosexuals, will never happen.
You lost a long time ago Matthew
LGBT people are different but we are humans and entitled to human rights – as much as that may annoy you … and we are gaining them
Do what, Matthew, the last govt invoked the Parliament Act to pass legislation that banned the hunting of foxes. That statute is still in force. It used the Parliament Act in order to circumvent the special pleading of reactionary factions who imagined they were more popular than they really were. Get your facts right. The majority abhor fox hunting. They also now support marriage equality.
“LGBT people are DIFFERENT, a different orientation cannot be equal.”
So, women are different from men. Should they ALSO be unequal to men under the eyes of the law?
You logic is indicative the level of stupidity you suffer with. You must just cut and paste your garbage from else where.
A line surely used by other such outstanding human beings like Hitler. Who of course took issue with LGBT people as well as a lot of other types who were not considered “equal”. Is that how you would like to be seen Matthew?
….compared by Mike Judge, you mean, who colludes with the AMerican Family Association in the name of charity?
Trotting off all these highly selected quotes from the website of the Christian Institute – what a surprise….!
I think you will find it was The BBC’s Andrew Marr who said what I quoted…
Yes, which the Christian Institute gave you a highly selected 32 secods of. I don’t doubt it by the way; that’s why I am writing articles like this.
Matthew . . . I see that you a Militant Anti-gay Activist!!!
Matthew . . . I see that you are a Militant Anti-gay Activist!!!
That’s because Blair was always on a sticky wicket regarding foxhunting from the outset, and even when he knew he had lost the free commons vote he overturned it with the semi-illegal parliament act.
Democracy is great as long as it is going in the same direction as you.
“Here is hoping that Cameron doe sthe same…”
Didn’t you say the Bulls would win their case in the ECHR?
Got that wrong too, didn’t you?
Poor, poor Matthew….
I’m laughing, though…..
The Bulls were fitted up by Stonewall.
Oh how desperate and gullable you sound …
Prepared to tell me which police service and their incident number or your full name yet?
Or do you want to hide like a coward behind your anonymity?
You have an option to give me some information without giving your name. So why not tell me?
Duplicitous Gullable Coward.
You’ve lost “Matthew”
Your bigotry is no longer acceptable in society.
Your treating people in a subhuman manner due to their orientation is no longer endorsed by society.
Well, I have never seen this guy on here before, but so far I have not seen such an eloquent, articulate, well-argued and thought-provoking comment on this subject as I have seen here.
The likes of Pink News, Peter Tatchell and Stonewall, not to mention the likes of Cameron, Clegg and Milliband should really try to take a leaf out of this man’s book.
Will somebody please find this man a job in professional journalism?
Adrian is on here from time to time and he and I have sparred a fair bit (that might make him a star in your book, Spanner ;-)) However, I think on the majority of things all 3 of us (and plenty more) are agreed on the legitimacy of human rights. Adrians article is well thought out, well researched and extremely well drafted. My research found some of this facts he includes and I am stunned and awed by his integrity, honour and capacity to speak the truth.
Another thing that really annoys me is their call for feedom of speech.
The UK seems to be a hotbed of these types of fundie groups and the number of blogs, websites etc that come from the UK from these guys is amazing.
I live in Australia and admittedly we have the same types here but I really don’t think we have such a problem with these types of orgs.
I’m all for freedom of speech but there does seem to be something wrong in he UK where there appears to be such a huge number of extremist websites and orgs and they appear also to be charities!
Pink news being one of those orgs that spews extremist views against anyone but homosexuals
Extremist views – that will be your militancy you are talking about with regards your demented attitude to LGBT people?
Thought so, deluded militant anti gay coward and loser – thats “Matthew”
Welcome to the nightmare that American gays have faced for over 30 years now.
I’ve warned our brothers and sisters in England that it could happen there too. America wasn’t always like this. These crazy people snuck up on us and then completely took over American politics; particularly the Republican Party.
They are VERY well funded by Christianist billionaires and are more than willing to fund and export their version of rabidly Christianism to the four corners of the earth, from Africa, to Europe, to Asia and Australia.
You better keep your eyes open and take this very, VERY seriously!
Yes. This is a concern. Anne Widdecombe, Ann Coulter… it’s a dark road leading right back to inequality and patriarchy.
Matthew is one of those people who call being gay a ‘lifestyle choice’. OK, Matthew, if it’s a choice I presume that being straight is your ‘lifestyle choice’. Just so that we are all quite clear about your orientation will you please tell us when you made that choice – the choice to be heterosexual, that is – and what it felt like. How old were you when you made the choice and do you ever regret choosing such a lifestyle? When you had your first heterosexual experience with a real girl was it satisfying or did you consider reviewing and changing your decision at that point? Has knowing that you have a choice of sexualities – according to you – had a big impact on your life? It would also be a great help to everyone here to know why you chose to be heterosexual rather than gay – what sort of ideas and reasoning influenced your choice?
I didn’t make a choice to be straight, I have been straight since birth, unlike homosexuals, who make the choice.
I didn’t have any influences, unlike homosexuals, who have the dreadful Elton John, John Barrowman etc as role models.
I followed the normal flow of humanity, had girlfriends, got married, had children.
Homosexuals are angry at people who knowing hit a nerve, because homosexuals know they could change from their chosen lifestyle, but instead carry on to commit sin and bully others to accept them.
What utter balderdash and complete tripe, Matthew. It is supremely illogical to hold the idea that only one facet of human sexuality is a choice. If I can choose to be gay – which I cannot and did not – then you must, by pure logic, have chosen to be straight. What you are actually claiming is that all people are born straight but that some choose to be gay and that is just so mind-bogglingly at variance with the facts of the matter that your belief in it is almost tantamount to derangement. No reputable scientist or logician, and I stress the word reputable, would agree with your position, instead such an argument as you make would be greeted with howls of laughter – as I greeted it. Let me assure you, you poor misguided soul, I did not choose to be gay and I see no profit in lying to you about that. I could no more change from being gay than I could fly unassisted to the moon.
In fact, your assertions remind me of the assertions that the vile Islamist hordes make. They claim that all people are born Muslim but that they choose to be something else and move away from true faith as they grow up. As a consequence one cannot ‘convert’ to Mohammedanism one can only, according to them, ‘revert’.
They are making the same sort of stupid assertion about religion as you are making about sexuality and the flaws in their arguments are as easy to spot as are the flaws in your’s. Primarily, your assertions are merely a belief, and an erroneous one at that not backked by fact, just as the Islamists belief in reversion is just that – a belief, not a fact. In the matter of strange beliefs you are in very good company and one can know a man by the company he keeps!
According to some peeps who were vociferously defending the Tories, there shouldn’t be anything to worry about. After all, they think CaMoron and his coalition are on top of everything… cheer up.. so they say… everything is lovely jolly and we will have guaranteed marriage equality by the end of 2015. Why all this stress? Ask CaMoron to discipline these homophobic groups and those in his own party who are against progress… he’ll surely grant your wishes..
Oh there you go again. You can’t make a post about anything without dragging the baby-eating Tories into it, can you? Labour sat on CPs for 13 years and only did that because the EU forced them into it. At least Cameron’s doing something, even if it is slow.
Please get off your lefty high horse.
Face reality for once… will you? The Tory party hasn’t changed. There are enough anti-gay vitriol coming from their quarters that do nothing but give support for whatever bigots do … they are part and parcel of this concerted effort to block anything with the word gay attached to it.
The thought of this group makes me sick, but the fact that they have more signatures than us makes me feel sicker.
The fact they engage in deception to fabricate signatures makes me feel even sicker!
Deception? Care to prove that? Where is your evidence that this has happened? It’s much more likely that their opponents are deliberately putting false names there as they have no answer to the fact that so many people oppose it.
So because so many people are opposed to equal marriage, we would go on there and put EVEN more names on it. I’m no tactiian but that seems like a very daft move to me.
I suggest you read the article on PN today about the Catholic letter instructing they congregations to oppose equal marriage. Within the comments of that story there is certainly one (and possibly two) people who state that their names have illegitimately been added to the petition without their consent.
It appears to be the same arrogant approach to ensuring false signatories to the petition as was proved in the similar Scottish petition. The entire petition there was undermined. The investigations into the dubious and murky petition from the subvertive and secretive C4M continue but I have no doubt their activities will be shown categorically to be full of deception and fabrication.
Misery love company.
These people are unhappy cowards. They didn’t chose to be true to themselves and are jealous of us who stood up to be counted.
I pity them
Warm congratulations to Adrian for pointing out that Humanists and Secularists are our allies in the fight against religious bigotry and oppression.
More power to their elbows!
Some Christians are also strong supporters of equal marriage and human rights, like me.
I am proud to work with people of all faiths and none. Secularists, atheists and liberal Christians (and those of other faiths) can work together to secure rights.
Some avenues of attack may be best pursued by humanists and ateists alone. Some avenues of attack may be best explored by liberal Christians alone. Some avenues attack would work better together and have more value if we unite and fight strongly together against the ridiculous fundamentalists.
In a way I am glad about this. I agree that these people are repellent and potentially dangerous, but I think that they can help the cause of marriage equality simply by being made to be as public and explicit as possible about their loony attitudes. I take on board what some have said here about mad American religion arriving here, but I think that the mass of British people, for all their prejudices, still tend to be scared off by this mentality. Fingers crossed!
Ten times as many people have signed their petition as the one opposed to it.
How many of their signatories are complete fabrications?
like their belief system.
Probably just as many as are on the other one. I’ve seen fabricated names on that one too
Where are the allegations suggesting that?
Why would a petition with 70+% of the public behind it and 61% of Christians behind it need to fabricate signatures? (Talking about the petition FOR equal marriage)
The one that needs to cheat (and is!) is the one on the losing side. The losers. The Coalition for marriage – the fundamentalists, the ones lost in history and out dated, out moded and out of touch. The cheaters. The ignorant inhumane ones who treat a whole segment of human beings as subhuman.
Where is your evidence to support your claim? There has been plenty of evidence to demonstrate the duplicitous actions of the Coalition for Marriage, so you thrown a school yard tantrum (is that all you can manage?) – bring the evidence and show you are not just throwing a tantrum.
I had reason to go back to the dictionary – another good book full of truth as appose to the bible a work of fiction.
the word Christian = Showing a loving concern for others; humane
I suggest these so called xtians are nothing more than bigots and haters of those whose lives these so called faithful envy.
Hey Jesus lovers – looks like meek (patient, long-suffering) really are inheriting the earth!
Groups like C4M nearly always turn out to be secretly funded by the Mormon and Roman Catholic bishops, which have no limit on the tens of millions of “religious” dollars secretly spent every year to oppress LGBT citizens everywhere. Identify who funds C4M, and you’ve caught your culprits. If either church refuses an independent, public audit of their expenses on anti-LGBT work, then you’ve caught your culprits. In Maine, the American state physically nearest the UK, the Catholic church last week announced it will no longer try to write Catholic dogma into public laws. See: http://www.bilerico.com/2012/03/catholic_church_withdraws_from_maine_marriage_equa.php
And regarding e4me.org.uk
Nominet have enabled the details of the domain, so the contact details are now viewable so they can be contacted to take down the ripped off site.
I enclose the email reply from Nominet:
“Thank you for contacting us regarding the c4em.org.uk domain name. You have informed us that you believe that the domain name is incorrectly opted out of the WHOIS.
We have investigated c4em.org.uk and have issued notice to the registrant and registrar that the address details for the domain name will be opted in to the WHOIS unless changes are made so that the domain name meets the opt-out criteria.
If this is not processed within 48 hours, the domain name will be suspended.
You can find more information about our WHOIS policy, and monitor the ongoing status of this domain name by visiting http://www.nominet.org.uk/go/whoisfaq
Thank you again for contacting us and making us aware of this issue.
Nominet Customer Services
And may I say that I hope Adrian will continue to report on the UK Christian Right. From down here in New Zealand, we learnt that the best option to take with militant fundamentalists was rigorous and continuous pre-emptive monitoring and stockpiling of affirmative pro-LGBT mainstream scientific and medical research.
If you conservatives TRULY want to protect and defend marriage, perhaps you should start by outlawing STRAIGHT DIVORCE.
Once you’ve done that, we can talk about gay marriage, mm’k?
Chill out guys and get some perspective, you are coming dangerousley close to public bullying, name calling,persecuting and hating those just because they don’t agree with you. Ring any bells?
What a fantastically written article by Mr Tippetts; I ‘Tipp’ my hat to you. Hopefully it will find a wider audience.
It is so disgusting that huge amount of money and time are going into stopping two men or two women getting married. These Christians clearly have no moral conscious or the money would be going towards charities to help the vulnerable; for example those who face abuse and those who have debilitating diseases. These people are not doing this out of ‘morals’ but out of their own bigoted, homophobic agenda. And that is wrong.
Don’t be fooled by “CARE” campaigning against “against exploitation of women” – what this actually means is persecuting sex workers. http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/21/the-war-on-sex-workers