He has not met “ex-gays”, he has met bisexual people, or closet cases. The concept of gay cures has been debunked as a dangerous and deceitful practice by professional bodies in the fields of psychiatry and social work. It is used on the young and/or vulnerable who often don’t have a choice and it is harmful. It needs to be bloody banned. Damned bl00dy christofascists and their poisonous book of moronic fairy tales have harmed enough people.
I have to say it really does call into question Selous’ ability to govern or take on any element of responsibility in government if he actually believes that people can be cured of homosexuality.
Repressing it and ‘curing’ it are two different things
……Now that they have “cured” all the diseases in the world the christofascists are moving on to the Incurable. Soon they will be offering to change the colour of your eyes (for a price of course) or the size of your assets.
I have been invited to a discussion programme on his local BBC Radio station. We will not be able to question each other but the presenter will ask us to respond to each other. I am not a professional journalist or anything so let me know what you want me to ask Andrew Selous!
Also please sign the petition!
When are you on the programme, Philip and I will have a think through of a good point for you and post it back here when I’ve thought it through.
Oh sorry Stu, it’s on early in the morning after 8am tomorrow.
Also, if you want to write to complain about Mr Selous and his views, the best person to contact, after the Party Leader, is the Rt Hon Patrick McLaughlin MP – Government Chief Whip. The email address for correspondence in connection with his role as Chief Whip is : firstname.lastname@example.org
A letter will be sent tomorrow to the chief whip!
I was thinking about the “gay cure” aspect and your interview with Selous – you could ask him if he would approve of therapy to cure people from their race or their disabillity or from being heterosexual? Does he feel the need to be cured of his hetrosexuality?
You could ask him why he thinks he knows better than the Royal College of PSychiatrists, WHO etc etc …
How did it go, Philip?
You’re doing a fantastic job, Phillip. Thank you. These people need to be flushed out into the open
Another bloody Tory, no surprise there. I’m waitiing for a Labour MP to endorse Coalition for Marriage. So far, none,, mostly all Tories of course. I bet if the marriage equality bill passes Parliament, the rabidly homophobic Tories in the House of Lords will vote it down en masse. Doesn’t bode well for the Tory party if that were to happen.
Why doesn’t someone from the British Psychiatric Association speak up and enlighten these morons?
Not quite right. There are two Labour MPs who have endorsed it: JIm Dobbin and Joe Benton, both Catholics (what do you expect!).
Thanks for letting me know. Even so, 2 against the majority, pale’s. But I expect some more Labour people to sign on, although I think they’ll be outnumbered by Tories and an overwhleming number of catholics and other right wing religious nutters.
Where is the list of MPs so we can check if they are ours and can petition them?
Brian, there is a full list on the ‘about’ tab of my petition here :
Hope that helps.
Here is a schedule showing when the MPs concerned have made an update to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests declaring that they received material support from CARE.
The dates do not necessarily coincide with when they had a CARE intern, but show when they made an update to the register. You can go back through each update of the register here :
Hope that helps,
I don’t know if anyone else had a strange sense of satisafaction at the reported figure of over 66,600 signatories for the Coalition for Marriage.
Just read this over and it sounds like I’m a Coalition for Marriage supporter. WHICH I AM NOT. I was merely highlighting the delightful irony of such a figure as “66,6″00 amongst these nonsensical religionists.
I was worried you were someone infilitrating from the Cristian Institute or CARE for a second there ….
….instant I saw the numbers12 I thought “How fitting and how very ironic”.
…..instant I seen the numbers i thought, How fitting and so very ironic……
Not many, is it?
Here we see the miry subterfuge of the links between organisations such as the Christian Institute, CARE, Christian Legal Centre, Christian Concern and the allegedly non-religious Coalition for Marriage.
They lie and deceive. They see any publicity as a gain. They refuse to be open to scrutiny. They stretch the limits (and maybe even overstep) of law especially charity law. They seek to actively discriminate, promote prejudice and ensure that LGBT are demeaned, dehumanised and trreated as second class citizens.
They seek to engage in an active process to seek special rights for those of fundamentalist Christian persuasion at the expense of shattering the human rights of others. They seek to impose a Christian version of Sharia law in UK. They seek to impose a theocracy.
They organise in underhand ways. They are funded by secret Christian Millionaires. They’re prepared to take whatever steps they see as reasonable (their choices seen as Gods will) and annihilate opposition.
They are also actively fundraising. I’ve complained to Sir Alec Reed who founded the Big Give, which is allowing CARE to continue to fundraise on their website to provide sex education material for Primary Schools, but he says he can’t do anything about it because they are a registered charity. I have sent a complaint to the Charity Commission too. See the Big Give response here :
Yes they do fundraise, and its largely for political purposes seeking to dehumanise others.
I can understand Sir Alec Reeds response although it is disappointing.
I think a letter writing campaign to the Charity Commission might be a good idea. Have any templates?
Stu, The petition is Bogus!!!!
I have found inconsistencies with the ‘Coalition for Marriage’ petition! I have been monitoring the numbers of people signing the petition every 15 min’s and the same number people are signing every 15 min’s. It’s to perfect and should be more staggered! So I looked online to see if it could be falsified in some way and found this news story: http://tinyurl.com/8y4lapt
The site is not automated and someone is manually adding the names, probably from the phone book.
I’d brought up this issue regarding petition fraud but nobody seemed bothered. It’s widespread in American politics and the referenda nonsense used in some of its states, marriage equality being one fo the most contentious of course. There has to be a way to weed out the fraud and expose the bigots for who they really are. It’s quite possible they’ve purchased mailing lists and using those names to bolster their numbers.
I had a feeling it might be bogus but didnt have any evidence to point either way – Thank You.
It just adds to my feeling of the duplicitousness and murky world the evangelical mafia are spinning with the intention to harm LGBT people.
I wouldn’t mind betting some of them are receiving funds from their American hate group counter-parts. We need full disclosure as to their source of funding, names, addresses etc and such information made public.
I bet they have backing form Peter Vardy and Brian Souter as well (and other similar rich people who seek to ensure equality does not exist).;
Most probably right. I wonder what the Home Office would have to say about foreign funding from hate groups in America? Maybe a word in Theresa May’s shell-like ear might be in order?
Good idea, Robert …
Theres a few working on it … Hopefully they will be seen for what they are soon when there is exposure of their incestuous immorality
“They lie and deceive. They see any publicity as a gain. They refuse to be open to scrutiny. They stretch the limits (and maybe even overstep) of law especially charity law. They seek to actively discriminate, promote prejudice and ensure that LGBT are demeaned, dehumanised and trreated as second class citizens.
They seek to engage in an active process to seek special rights for those of fundamentalist Christian persuasion at the expense of shattering the human rights of others. They seek to impose a Christian version of Sharia law in UK. They seek to impose a theocracy.
They organise in underhand ways. They are funded by secret Christian Millionaires. They’re prepared to take whatever steps they see as reasonable (their choices seen as Gods will) and annihilate opposition.”
All of the above is also a description of the Tory Party. Birds of the same feather flock together. No surprises there huh?
Some elements of the Tory party but not the whole …
Although those that do not endorse the fundamentalist agenda discussed should be speaking out more often, more forcefully and seeking disciplinary action against the bigots!
Wake up Alice.
When it comes to discrimination, as sponsoring this ‘gay cure’ event could be seen (according to the RCP’s Position Statement), I am sure there are many people who are involved in political parties of all colours who would be happy to speak out. None of the main parties tolerate discrimination.
What I am sure puts off more people from doing so is the vitriol they see heaped upon those who stick their neck out!
Gay people are not sick and do not need any cure, Christian or psychological which has been proven to harm LGBT people. Criminals who seek to make money off of this type of thing is a crime and need to be arrested and put in prison for crimes against humanity. Just because Christians do not like gays is not reason to covertly persecute them by saying they are sick and need a cure any more than saying that the Christian religion is sick and needs a cure. Christians have had 2,000 years of their beliefs to pray the gay away and if they can not do it in 2,000 years it does not work. Psychiatrist have stated that gay is not a sickness and needs no cure. Why is the Christian Church mixing psychology together to force their “gay cure” on LGBT people? They need to be investigated for crimes against LGBT people. Stop these mad men where ever you can from pushing their brand of snake oil as a cure which is a fraud and a scam on gay victims. LGBT people are not sick and do not need a “cure”.
Tory MP Andrew Selous said “I am wholly against any form of discrimination.”
i take it you will be voting for equal marriage then
No, that’s the only exception because of his religious views. Unabashed bigotry!
And to think, we have to put up with all this cr@p, and with our rights being played like poker chips, because some moron called Joseph didn’t realise that Mary was a bit of a tart. It’s all a bloody fiction, and yet it is being allowed to harm us. If someone walked up to these people today and told them a story about talking snakes, talking donkeys, women turning in to salt and a guy living in a big fish, it would be dismissed as worse nonsense than Scientology’s “Xenu” babble. And yet it damages us every single bloody day! SMH.
Thank you so much for featuring the petition. I am going head to head with Andrew Selous on BBC Three Counties Radio just after 8am on Sunday morning. Please let me know what you want me to say to him!
Please sign and retweet/email the petition to your friends and write to your MP even if they aren’t on the list. Ben Bradshaw branded CARE “a bunch of homophobic bigots” in 2000 but in 2012 David Lammy said he was unaware of their extreme views. MPs need to be aware of the charity, which seems like a wolf in sheeps clothing.
The link does work….
Ooops.. Doesn’t work I mean.
Dr Guthrie, does this mean you are also socrates?
Is that the right link, Philip?
When I tried to access it the change website said it couldnt find the relevant petition …
Sorry here is the correct link . Thanks for pointing out the error! You can tell I’m not a pro!
Maybe not a pro, Philip, but doing a damn good job!
Thanks! I’m very lucky to have an understanding employer. Have had to take a week off work to sort this out!
Phillip, remind him of Edwina Currie’s statement about ‘good Christian people not gettng Aids’ as per her extraordinary statement in 1987 when she was Junior Health Minister. Remind him perhaps how silly this statement now looks over a decade on. The problem with bigots and their self deluded statements, is that eventually time catches up with them.
Here’s the link to refresh or inform you:
Doh! Made a mistake with the link and chopped some of it off:
Link does work
SELF LOATHING TORIES
I made a deal with myself, if anyone offers me a cure i will kill them.
I have had enough of these hatefilled closet cases stirring up crap and not minding their own business
“£50-a-head conference ” …. sounds more like a lucrative SCAM to me!!!!!
Where are the gay tory lovers now?
Is Andrew Selous a Tory?
This article does not say, but I presume he is. Homophobic bigotry is rampant in both the Tory Party and the BNP after all.
I would respectfully request that from now on when Pink News is writing a story on a homophobic Tory bigot like Selous or David Burrowes or Theresa May or Iain Duncan Smith or Chris Grayling etc etc, that they get in touch with the LGBTory group (or its leader Matthew Sephton) to ask whether it condemns the homophobia of its party members and whether they believe these bigots should be expelled from the Tory Party because they are more suitable to be BNP members.
LGBTory are NEVER quoted in these stories – they only show their cowardly quisling heads when trying to prefend the Tory Party is a not the home for truly grotesque bigotry.
It is a news story of great significance after all that the LGBT group in the governing party of our nation is not allowed to speak out to condemn the homophobia of extremists like Selous and Burrowes.
He is indeed a Tory.
He is a homophobic Tory if his voting record is anything to go by:
He seems to be liked by the Christian Institute given that he voted to keep Section 28:
All the more reason not to like him
What a surprise various internet sites list him as a driector and prominent member of the Conservative Christian Fellowship (2001-6), former charman of the Christians in Parliament group, member of the eccesiastical select committee ….
He is also linked to the evangelical alliance and Christian Institute.
And I bet if a poll was taken of Labour and Tory parties on marriage equality, the Tories would come out the winners opposing it. The fact that 100+ of them have signed the Coalition for Marriage speaks volumes. Imagine the outcome in Parliament when a vote is taken. If by a miracle it passes, we’ve yet to deal with the bigots in the House of Lords, many of them right wing Tory bigots including 28 C of E clerics who will probably vote it down. The H of L needs to be abolished, undemocratic and irrelevant, nor does it represent the people.
I asked my MP Steve Webb to meet the gay community half way and start an LGBT youth group in a local church with strict THT management but he rejected the proposal.
My MP co-wrote the previous ‘Christians in parliament’ report: http://www.christiansinparliament.org.uk/Portals/2/FITF.pdf
So the next time these religionists say we are not interested in meeting them half way you can say we have tried and you were not interested!
They are truly deluded in everyway. This gay hysteria is just religion making attempts to justify a fake god as science continues to show that no god exists nor was the creator of anything. Religion is and always was for power through brainwashing, repression and violence. These extreme attacks on gay and lesbians is just evidence of how much they fear becoming irrelevant
Quite right, what you say is supported by the fact they are having to resort to subtrefuge in an attempt to impose their beliefs on society. They lie about supporting equality when public statements are required but beaver behind the scene to defeat equality.
From their point of view attacking gays is really just moving deck chairs about on the Titanic. They know they are losing the fight against rationality. (Creationists are openly laughed at now) so they select what they think will be an easy target-Gays. They are despicable and deceitful.
Another embarrassment for LGBTory. Seems to be a daily occurrence at the moment.
Agree, the LGBTory people are like chickens who would vote for Colonel Sanders. What we are seeing at the moment is an very strong and insidious insertion of extreme right christofascism in to the British political system – our version of the GOP. And it needs to be stamped on hard and bloody fast.
I agree with CARE on this. We are born this way BUT it is possible to change. I did and never looked back. Why cant gays and lesbians do the same? Change is good, and the trans movement is leading the way.
Yawn Yawn Yawn
I do not believe it is possible to change your orientation, those people who “change” eeither suppressed their homosexuality or bisexuality in earlier life or began suppressing it in later life.
What are you talking about? A homophobic comment from someone who claims to be trans. I smell a troll.
Sorry I didnt mean to cause offense
F OFF KEITH.
Actually you ARE Still under investigation no matter what you think.
Socrates, please ignore this fool in future. Trolls feed off attention, the more you reply, the more it eats. Just thumbs down and the troll will go elsewhere to annoy someone else.
Maybe we don’t even thumbs down this thing gets off on acknowledgement
James! Good idea. If people ignore this trolling fool completely it will go and find somewhere else to feed from its hate.
Can we let is get to -10 so we don’t have to see its posts though?
The day an organisation can cure a straight man of being straight and turn him gay, then maybe CARE will have some credence. Until then, nobody can change their orientation. Some may be able to become celibate, but the orientation you can NEVER change if we’re not transgendered.
You are not changing your sexuality – you are looking to be gender re-assigned – and BTW your email is not on any Transgender group or association or even Doctors waiting list – I accuse you closeted hetro troll of being a fake and probably a ‘religious freak of bigotry’ go boil ya head and tell your commrades they are evolutionarily doomed!!
This reporter from Charity Finance Magazine/Civil Society Magazine managed to get CARE to make a statement – but it’s nothing to do with the gay cure conference, it just talks about the interns.
“I am wholly against any form of discrimination.” …but he believes gay people can be “cured” from their “gayness”.
Everyone who stands behind the idea of “curing” homosexuality shows his true colours.
Andrew Selous is an ignorant homophobic bigot.
Peter you are absolutely right. The two statements made by Andrew Selous are, when read together a non-sequitur. Using the Royal College of Psychiatrists Position Statement as the basis for medical opinion in this country, even to suggest or talk about the idea of a treatment for homosexuality is to create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination flourish (http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS01_2010x.pdf).
Mr Selous can’t claim he is against any form of discrimination whilst in the same statement, create an environment in which discrimination can flourish.
I recall complaining about Care’s anti-gay campaiging to the Charity Commission several years ago. How this “charity” gets away with such political activity that has nothing to do with their charitable missions, I don’t know.
The Charity Commission told me : I can confirm that the Commission has not conducted a statutory inquiry under section 8 of the Charities Act 1993 into the charity as was previously reported. However, the Commission was aware of concerns that were raised in 2008 in respect of the Charity’s internship programme, I attach a copy of the reactive press line which was issued in 2008 in respect of concerns that were raised regarding the charity’s internship plan:- “following concerns raised in the press regarding the internship programme that Christian Action Research and Education (CARE) operates, the Charity Commission contacted the charity to clarify the details of the programme. We have found no evidence to support the allegations that interns have been lobbying, nor that CARE has, by virtue of its internship programme, been giving financial support to MP’s. The Commission will therefore not be looking into these issues any further”.
Read it and weep. With laughter.
David Burrowes caught out not telling the truth, what a shock ROFL
Fortunately Burrowes and his homophobic chums are idiots and the truth about them is as plain as the fake smile on his fake face.
strange, i clicked the link but enfield independent says article not found?! have they removed?
It appears to be …
Now, would I be cynical if I thought Burrowes was pressurizing a local newspaper as he did not want to be seen lying?
it seems that the enfield independent is not that independent at all.
There is no such thing as ex-GAYS! You are either gay or you aren’t. Show any of these so called ex-gays a good sized erection and they’ll be o their knees paying homage to it.
Where is it. Aww come on stop hiding it…..
somebody tell this idiot, there is no such thing as ex-gay, only present day people who will lie just to left alone, or they are bisexual who are people who like both sexes and can happily be with both because they are attracted sexually to both, everybody dont like dick, its nasty to look at an they dont want it near them outside of the pants its in, it looks gross, feels gross an makes you want to throw up when you see one, and that how i feel , and no i dont tell me how to feel about who i am attracted to my body and my mind tells me who i am attracted , and puts sexual attractions in a different category than somebody i think looks nice in thier clothes, some people i think looks nice on the out side but when it come to sex with them their gross, the feeling dont go that far with them, are you may be like the hetersexuals who were paid to lie at the bachmans clinic to fool everyone into thinking ex gay, who in the hell anyway would want to be heterosexual, I dont know,
look at all of these high profile people coming out about being in false marriages for the media, and some false bad religions brainwashing , one mega millionair minister said him and his married wife lived 28, years without sexual contact, and a loveless marriage , just to impresss a false religions, the bad pastors set up and arranged his marriage when he was a young man and they new he was gay , but tried to cover it up, therefore ruining this young mans life, he finally broke down on tv, and told the truth him and his wife and said they where divorcing an needed to find true loves for both of them instead of the false lie the abusive religions told the church he was an ex gay, no he was not, he was just repeating a brainwashed lied and living a brainwashed lie, other high profile mega millionairs has come forward and divorced their wives and husbands because they were living lies also , like meredith baxter and the richest women in london, who divorced her husband
one of the wealthiest men, came out last year and devorced his wife, because they both new he was gay and should not have let others put them into a loveless marriage, its emotionally and physically abusive, and no one is really happy, people need to find the right person or group of friends that is right for them not what other people think what is right b;ut what they know is right for them, and how the people or person make them feel inside and out, how much trust they feel around the people or person. how safe and loved you feel around the person or people, if you dont have these qualities, there is no real relationship only lies and a desaster, a waste of time, life should never be spent like that , you need to find happiness, each individual, with a mutual consenting person of your own age range, and respect the other and yourself and your feelings, and no there should be boundaries, that you should not every cross with the other partner or friend if the other person has some,
no i q , nothing in the head, at all just thinks with his dick, wants to be the macho ego in everything, but cannot even tame or govern his dick, it drives him to rape and murder and incest and pedephilia, wich is ;a weak as coward of a man, rather than be a real man to a woman and father to his kids and love theim both with kindness and respect and do not care what any other man thinks are says he simply is a respectful famliy man, there are very few of these men, anywhere my dad was one i proud to say,
I saw a beautiful thing this morning. A loved up gay interracial couple in their 20′s on the bus. no one cared or commented and it actually made me well up.
First time in ages I felt proud to live in London. We have done a lot of work to get to where we are today. These people are not mad they are bad minded and wicked.
They claim to speak for the majority but what I saw today proved it’s a noisy minority.
Almost everyone else dosen’t mind.
The link between CARE, the gay cure event, and their education programme is particularly concerning. Could this be the return of Section 28 on the quiet or is it the natural outcome of ‘localism’ :
Somewhat ironic is the fact that one of the MPs who has a link to CARE – the ‘gay cure’ sponsor – is Paul Burstow MP (LD) who won the seat after a controversial campaign when his opponent was alleged to have founded a church which offered gay cures – as reported in PN:
Isn’t LibDem president Tim Farron MP a beneficiary of a funded intern from CARE?
Yes, the list of MPs who have made updates to the Register of Members Interests declaring receipt of material support from CARE since the ‘gay cure’ event in April 2009 is here:
You can us the schedule to cross-reference to the Register here :
CARE is more like a political party within another party, can’t see why they should be regarded as a charity. They’re main activity seems to be to infleunce changes to the law and they are always anti-gay laws at that.
These MPs should come clean and stand for a seperate Christian party rather than trash the mainstream views of their party. If they stood for what their real views were for then they would never have been elected by the public. Instead we have fake MPs under the guise of labour, cons or lib dems which THEY ARE NOT!! Why the individual party continue to elect these as members is beyond belief.
At 8am I took part in an interview with Mr Selous’ BBC Local Radio station. It will be online on I Player tomorrow. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00kvk60
Andrew Selous defended CARE saying:
“I repeat this was not a gay cure conference. It was purely offering help, my understanding is, to real people who actually had asked for help.”
“I have to say, that this has been blown up out of all proportion. You know, this was an event, it wasn’t a recent event, it was back in 2009, CARE has been looked at very carefully by both the Charity Commission and the Parliamentary Authority since then, this isn’t a new story, you know, this is, this was one event, I mean CARE weren’t even the main sponsors of the organisation”
When it was put to him that gay people would feel insulted at the suggestion that they could change if they wanted to, Mr Selous replied:
“But isn’t that perhaps something that some gay rights organisations are saying to people that are you know, that are heterosexual and maybe don’t feel comfortable.”
In response to my contention that in promoting the idea that sexual orientation can be changed, Mr Selous is contradicting the prevailing view of the medical community, he told BBC Three Counties Radio;
“..Phillip is talking from a theoretical point of view. I have actually met people in this state. There was a gentleman who came to a meeting in the House of Commons and he is not alone because he said there are other people in this condition; he said he had previously slept with over one hundred men he was now married to a woman and he was faithful to her. And, you know, there may not be large numbers, but I have met with my own eyes. Phillip can talk about you know, what various professional bodies think and so on but these are actual living people, some of whom have asked for help to go back to a heterosexual lifestyle. I would say that the compassionate thing to do is to offer help to people who have asked for help.”
I doubt the veracity of that man you claim said he slept with 100+ men or war and I doubt the veracity of your statement. Prove with facts please that a heterosexual male can be converted to a homosexual, then maybe, just maybe your statement may hold water. When did this so called meeting in the House of Commons take place and who was present, names, date and time please of those MPs or others so we can verify with those individuals if they were actually present and can vouch for your statement. We’re waiting.
Well done Philip, I think you did very well … havent listened to it all yet. I intend to later tongiht but the bits I picked up were good. I suspect there were some comments you would have liked to have made but were unable to make. Well done. Keep at it. Many of us are right behind you
Phillip- Just heard your discussion with Toby Friedman and Andrew Selous.
Why didn’t you ask Friedman if he thought HIS sexual orientation could be “cured”? I mean let’s face it- if you seriously think that it is possible to change a person’s sexual orientation- then you would be able to change someone from heterosexual to homosexual as well as vice versa ?
Then – even he would have to have agreed that is an indefensible position to be held. the problem with this sort of debate is that presenters like Toby Friedman host it as though there are two legitimate sides to it- trying to balance them up- buts it’s not like that- he’s trying to present it as ‘reasonable’ view when it’s actually not. By making him confront his own sexuality with the ‘straight cure’ argument will instantly reveal the flaw with the Andrew Selous positions and that it is untenable.
The bit where I was humming and haa-ing was when I was debating whether to mention Crispin Blunt MP, who is one of his neighbouring MPs. That’s an example of someone who was married and is now in a same sex relationship. I decided not to mention it in the end as I thought that would lower the tone and make it personal.
I thought of loads of things I should have said – about the terrible suicide rate amongst people who have gone through reparative therapy etc etc. I am not a natural speaker so got a bit flustered!
The report on the BBC Sunday Politics Programme about the petition is online at the BBC I Player here :
From 40.35 onwards.