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Former diplomat contests Tunisian leader on gay rights

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  1. The opportunities for greater freedom as a result of the arab spring could well be lost of support is not provided and pressure exerted on these governments.

    1. Could well be lost? The Muslim Brotherhood and Salafists are in charge of Egypt. The islamists are taking control across the whole region. And you say “could be”? Do they actually have to start stoning people to death and re-starting the slave trade for you to wake up and smell the coffee?

      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/egyptian-sheikh-says-poverty-in-islamic-world-can-be-solved-by-jihad-and-plundering-the-infidels.html

      1. and yet Tunisia has a gay magazine being published for the first time ever, the gay scene in Cairo is growing and more confident …

        1. Yeah sure. Because the Muslim Brotherhood modelled itself on Hitler’s German Workers Party for no good reason. And islamic regimes have proven themselves so gay friendly over. Tunisia was always the most tolerant north African country. Here’s the salafists rioting because women were prevented from attending university wearing a veil: http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/nations/tunisia/2012/02/29/visualizza_new.html_106077372.html

          Things are up in the air in all those north African countries now. Wait until the islamic regime has sorted out its adminstration. Then we’ll see how many gay magazines and gay bars there are.

          If they’ve been able to close down bars in the east end of London, they’ll not be tolerating gay bars in countries with sharia-based constitutions.

          Clearly the delusion about the “arab spring” is too hard to let go.

          1. Ah so this is an anti Muslim speech you are giving Joe …

            Not everyone in Tunisia or Egypt is Muslim …

            Some of them are gay, some of them are gay and Muslim …

          2. Here you go. Tunisia’s Human Rights Minister affirms that gay people should have no protection. The editor of the gay magazine tries to use sentiment rather than reason and principle to win the argument. The Libyan delegate to the UN Human Rights Council also recently said that gay people do no have human rights because we “threaten the human race”.

            http://4freedoms.ning.com/group/gay/forum/topics/contra-amnesty-international-and-diplomats-tunisia-s-human-rights?xg_source=activity

            Carry on with your delusion Stu. I’ve seen the gay muslim group IMAAN try the same pleading tactic with a group of 100 muslims. It cut no ice with them then, and it will not work in Tunisia.

          3. Not trying to pretend its perfect and that there are not improvements that could be made. Nor am I trying to say that we should not hold Tunisia, Egypt and other states to scrutiny. But, the potential is better than 3 years ago. Its evidenced by improvements including those I have mentioned.
            I am more glass half full, you are more glass half empty

  2. After years of oppression, you would think that the Tunisian people would have some empathy for those still penalised by outdated colonial laws.

    The human rights minister should resign for his comments. You either accept all human rights or not. It’s not a menu from which you can pick and choose which rights to protect.

    1. “After years of oppression, you would think that the Tunisian people would have some empathy for those still penalised by outdated colonial laws. ”

      People need to stop blaming colonialism for the fact that LGBT people still face oppression. Tunisia was colonised by France which did not penalise homosexuality.

      Let’s blame the fact that bigotry is a populist position to take in these primitive countries and start punishing these countries economically for their savagely bigotted beliefs.

    2. Good grief. In 1990 the islamic world ratified a document SUBORDINATING all human rights to sharia law. It is called The Cairo Declaration.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

      They have rejected the UN Declaration of Human Rights, it’s just that the media and Amnesty and the UN haven’t bothered to tell you. But with the internet, there’s really no excuse for requiring the media to pre-digest information for you.

      In 1951 the UN reported that 1:20 people in Saudia Arabia & Yemen were slaves. The UN thought this quite reasonsable, considering that sharia law endorses slavery.

      1. Under Mubarraks regime.

        The temporary government in Egypt has announced plans to repeal many policies of Mubarrak that were unfair or unjust. The have specifically said the Cairo declaration will be examined.

        1. Hahaha.. yeah of course, a country with a sharia constitution is going to reject the Cairo Declaration.

          Muslims will fob off the gullible west because it has worked fine for decades. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2011/03/egypts-transitional-constitution-keeps.html

          Your final collision with reality is going to be a bumpy landing.

          1. Joe

            So, you laugh off my comment about the first ever gay magazine being published in Tunisia post Arab Spring …

            Its a fact

            You laugh off the growth and increased confidence of the Cairo gay scene

            Its a fact

            You laugh off the likelihood of the Cairo Declaration being challenged, changed or withdrawn – the promsie to review it though IS A FACT

            WHereas you deal with facts pre Arab Spring and speculation as far as I can see …

  3. I am hopeful for Tunisia.

    Remember that it is over 80 years since Britain became a democracy (when women gained the vote.).

    Yet even today the LGBT population in Britain is discriminated against under the law.

    Tunisia needs to be told in no uncertain terms that respect for LGBT human rights is an absolute must if they want their tourist industry (their biggest money-maker) to survive.

    The fact that the ruling party will be an islamic party is clearly a tragedy and a joke,

    However if we are able to have dealings with extremist cultist parties like the Republican Party in the US, then there’s no reason we can’t deal with similar parties in Tunisia.

    1. I think it is right to be cautiously hopeful. As long as they are not allowed to slip and encouraged to improve there could be good strides made in Tunisia.

  4. its rather odd, that some democratic governments would appoint ignorant bigots in a ministerial position responsible for equality and human rights

    http://www.lgbt-ep.eu/press-releases/polish-minister-for-equal-treatment-sends-censorship-requests-to-organisations-and-media/

    or great that majority of countries with strong record of human rights abuses make up UN Human Rights Council

    http://www.lgbt-ep.eu/press-releases/polish-minister-for-equal-treatment-sends-censorship-requests-to-organisations-and-media/

    1. David Myers 2 Mar 2012, 9:06am

      “its rather odd, that some democratic governments would appoint ignorant bigots in a ministerial position responsible for equality and human rights” –

      The Republicans in the US do it regularly. I think looking for logic and human compassion in fascistic governments is a sucker’s bet. Pressure might change them but they’re not going to do it on their own, I’ll bet.

      1. Gayday magazine 2 Mar 2012, 9:38am

        We need to keep in mind that homosexuality is still discriminated against in far more countries in the world than those legalizing it. It’s nowadays practice of discrimination.
        Tunisia is in the process of democratic transition and had just elected almost 4 months ago a Constitutional Assembly which mission is to draft a new constitution for the country. Basically, a new country is being delivered here (sadly in a dirty environment).

        Governmental powers are not falling only in the hands of Ennhada (Moderate Islamic Party). 2 more “democratic” parties that followed it in poll results do share the executive powers too.

        The dialog that is happening in the country is quite healthy appeals to similar one happening in the US, Poland, Moldova, UK and else.. a rough dialog between religious fundamentalists that want to advance the application of strict religious texts (subject to several tolerant interpretations) and secularists who rather separate the religion from the state!

  5. Farahat, had better be grateful that tunsnias country allowed him to come back at all, if farahat, is found siding with terrorism and abusive islams, then farahat will need to be removed again, and for good, the town of tunsia seems to be headed in a very stable and goodwill direction, by respecting women, and minorities a gay families who all want to live in peace and harmony without causing problems for the other, their stand for equality an human rights sounds very honorable and tunsnia should not allow any religion or organization to come into their town and start up trouble and racism and bigotry for the peaceful direction of human rights the town has moved into, hate religions are evil and wicked, the tear up homes and families an and freindships with people that has really been their for each other since child hood, if you allow these wicked bigots to get into commuity and start up brainwashing people against each other in these wicked occults they call churches are religions,

  6. People who listen to bad men and some bad women brainwash them in religions of hate , alows , malice that is ufounded and unjustifed to happen to other innocent families and children all because the individual is weak and cowards to hate religions, you stand up like real men and women for your families and your friends, and the love of them and you get the hatemongers out of your face even if you have to beat them the out of it arrest them and sue them you get them out of you communities, as well trying to tear up our familiy loves and peace , people that dont go around bothering other peopel like the gay community , should be welcomed and loved with open arms anywhere, people like the heterosexual bigots and men, who rape all people , children women and other men, murder , wife beat, and pedephiles is every communities nightmare every single day , look at the hetersexual marriages, violatile, and a polluted waste, of desastors, high profile especially, but everywhere,

  7. You let the the farahat, now as tusnia, you do not want the terrorist nor their hate religions and abusers of people including womens rights, in thier town, you finally got it right, by not allowing islam to violate the womens rights there, no head scarf wearing as well , trying to violate her humanity women are grown and even more intelligent than men, they dont need men telling them anything, that is not mens place they are just a counter co part in existence, you respect each other and courtesy, and move on about your individual businesses, hetersexual have no business following gay people around getting in their private affairs and lives, the bigots obsessions with gay people is horrific, their jealous, is pathetic, their secret and open desires to sex;ual be with gay people is also pathetic ans twisted they have others peope in their lives, no body causes problems but hetersexuals bigots an the hate mongering religions so no bigotry does not have a right of anykind, its wrong

  8. you must reprimand all hate crimes, period, crimes against humanity, countries must stop living like thugs and terrorist, and become peaceful families and citizens, treating other fair and courteous, you dont have to marry gay if you are a heterosexual, but you must leave the gay famieliies alone and get on back to your own families and stay out of their faces, you just dont have a right to be up in people face causing trouble and talking bad about people who have done nothing to you.Countries must stop electing thugs and terrorist in as officials in their parliments and elect peace abiding human rights citizens as well that people can trust for all of their famiilies. instead of the monsters some countries have, commiting crimes against the people, the must get rid of them, you protect each other and the families from terrorist and thugs, not invite them in as religions or islam or hate group of klans . you choose civilization and peace over evil abusers who care nothing for you

  9. All countries must take up human rights and civil rights, they must be established right away, to save civilization, and humanity, The countries must have you will find that the hand full of racist and bigots, are not worth losing the wanderful friendships and lives of hetersexua and gay people who live together in peace and have famillies who are as well , mixed genders and colors, you rid the evil and abusers, so that the rest, of the citizens and their famies, who are peace and are not harrassing an harming others can be a peace, bigots and racists are trash, that do not want to see peace and love and harmony among people , they want bloodshed and violence everywhere, they are trash, you dont side with trash, that wants to harm litle children you stand with a back bone and spine and fight for the love of your famielies and friends, like lady gaga, and many mayors going forward with governors making a stand for human rights, The republican, senators who stand for equal rights,

  10. The democrats in New york , must continue to stand against the racist an bigoted agenda of republicans, and they must not allow the bigoted republicans to try an cause problems for the other human rights republicans who made history for equal rights, you all must move forward and get rid of the bigoted republicans, and any bigoted democrats that harm civilized equality and human rights, goodwill measures, all younger republicans and log cabin republicans, must get rid of the old heads from the south republicans who have given the republican party a bad name and a bad stain, you must over haul your party to human rights people, you dont vote for a bigoted democrat, ;you choose the republican equal rights person, you dont choose a bigoted republican, you choose a human rights equal rights person , who has a background and resume for helping others in need regardless of their skin color, or gender or sexual orientation, color your self humane and act humane and civil and fair

  11. Carrie- I was just wondering- and I hope you don’t mind me enquiring- but do you happen to have some sort of life at all outside these boards?

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