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New 'Gay Marriage No Thanks' group launches with 'ten good reasons' to oppose equal marriage
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Lord Tebbit: I wouldn't have been surprised if Jimmy Savile was homosexual
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Archbishop of York: Would the Church of England rather bless 'sheep and trees' than gay couples?
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Mixed martial arts fighter: 'Equal marriage could lead to incest, bestiality and child marriages'
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Barry Cryer brands ITV's Vicious 'homophobic' television
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Maria Miller tables Public Order Act amendment protecting critics of equal marriage
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Lib Dems' Baroness Williams to support anti-equal marriage 'union' amendment
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Tory Lord Mawhinney tables 'traditional marriage' amendment for equal marriage bill
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Lord Hylton tables new wrecking amendment for the equal marriage bill
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Lord Dear proposes new amendment to equal marriage bill concerning 'traditional marriage'
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Kiuru7 362
Robert in S. Kensington 344
Eddy 327
twitless 327
That There Other David 321
Jock S. Trap 309
D.McCabe 308
bobbleobble 227
Pavlos 222
Rehan 217
Good! The ‘holy see’ are going to be fuming angry!
@Craig…
…the Irish people have moved on from the bullying and paedophilia of the Church of Rome and indeed at last count only about 28% now go to church regularly and most of those are elderly. Ireland has even closed the Irish Embassy in the Vatican.
And most just go for the breakfast afterwards, I heard.
@doug…
…..”And most just go for the breakfast afterwards, I heard”
Well you heard wrong. The only time there is Tea and sarnies after Mass is after a funeral and sometimes after First Holy Communion. However I, as it would seem by the negative votes you have gotten, have read your comment as racist and anti Irish. Hope you are proud of yourself, a**wipe.
and everyone else**
the IrIsh Embassy in the Vatican is going to re-open shortly…
@John…
……don’t hold your breath…They will get to share the Embassy with the Italians if they get down off their high horse but I wouldn’t think that will be any time soon.
the only thing the holy see sees is their own asshole and their power.
Put some diarrhea creating bacteria in the vatican water supply.
This is excellent news and reflects my day-to-day experience that homophobia is retreating rapidly. Amending the constitution is a complex process, but I’m optimistic we’ll get there.
As an immigrant, I find Ireland a very family-minded, neighbourly place to call home. My overseas marriage is regarded as a CP under Irish law, but is seen as a marriage by almost everyone my wife and I talk to.
CPs here don’t have all the rights of the UK ones, especially in relation to parenting.
But I think the source of public support for marriage equality is less about lists of legal rights, and more about equality and inclusion in a society where (love it or hate it) marriage and family are enormously important.
By making this change, Ireland can remind homophobes in the rest of the world (especially in the US) what real family values are about – standing by the people you are joined to, whether by blood or by love. Marriage equality strengthens families, which is why I think it will pass.
It’s interesting that, apart from Italy, Catholic countries totally disregard what the Pope says on the subject, in favour of simple fairness and equality.
Good stuff, that’s more like it. What’s the problem with the other 27% though, I’m assuming either devout Catholics, Presbyterians or simply just ignorant thicks.
Personally I’d be wary about these polls.
true the support for equality stands at 73%, but a referendum is allegedly required to make a constitutional change to allow it.
When Ireland had a divorce referendum in the 1990′s polls consistently showed 80% support to allow divorce. A referendum was announced and suddenly all these horrific ad campaigns started (funded in large part by US evangelical groups.) One such advert stated that if divorce was introduced then men would lose all rights to their children if they got divorced. This was clearly untrue but it worked on people’s fears. In the end only 50.2% voted in favour for divorce ie a tiny majority.
The same will happen here I suspect. I am not confident that if these extreme right groups start making their obscene insinuations about our communities that people will continue to support equality.
But fingers crossed.
And knowing these extremist groups I suspect the anti-equality brigade will focus their efforts on ‘Won’t someone PLEASE think of the children’ type lies.
I don’t think it’s comparable to the divorce referendum. Ireland is a very different place now. While I would not underestimate the challenge , there has been a lot of ground work done by groups like LGBT Noise and Marriage Equality to build public support. The polls have demonstrated a steady rise in support. The figure is consistent with the last poll one year ago. Increased visibility of gay people and couples through the campaigns of the groups above is breaking down those irrational fears.
“When Ireland had a divorce referendum in the 1990′s polls consistently showed 80% support to allow divorce.”
That was 17 years ago, and much has changed in that time, especial in people who support the catholic church – and after their horrendous cover-ups of abuse that number has fallen drastically.
And yes, the constitution does need to chnage, otherwise it may be challenged in the Supreme Court, so there is nothing “allegedly” about it, the AG has confirmed the same. It is not always considered a good idea in my opinion to plebiscite civil liberties, but in the case of Ireland, its constitution is there to prevent abuses of power and put the will of the people above the government, and a change to the constitution would cement the rights to equality once and for all gay couples.
“And yes, the constitution does need to chnage, otherwise it may be challenged in the Supreme Court ”
And what’s wrong with that?
My view is that the governnment needs to legislate for equality and then let the bigots challenge it in court if they like.
The Supreme Court would not rule against marriage equality legislation.
The whole ‘we need a referendum’ line is utter bull.
Ireland also ‘needed’ a referendum to allow Mary Robinson be president. She is a woman and the constitution refers to the president as ‘he’ throughout. There was no referendum though as it was assumed that when the president was referred to as ‘he’ it did not mean literally a man.
Likewise in 2012 it should not be assumed to that when the constiitution refers to a husband and wife that this means that same sex marriages are automatically not allowed.
I do not believe that Irish LGBT equality is dependent on the wishes of the masses. And I think the whole ‘need’ for a referendum was concocted.
“My view is that the governnment needs to legislate for equality and then let the bigots challenge it in court if they like”
Not the way Irish democracy works.
“The Supreme Court would not rule against marriage equality legislation”
Really? How so. The High Court did.
“I do not believe that Irish LGBT equality is dependent on the wishes of the masses. And I think the whole ‘need’ for a referendum was concocted.”
Then where is your constitutional challenge in the courts, David? Your belief is irrelevant to the reality of the situation, this is why LGBT organisations do no pray for change…..
good point but in the 1990s the internet was in its infancy. People are better informed nowadays.
The rate of support in the UK was 61% in 2009. Now three years later is probably about the same as Ireland’s. Marriage equality is coming whether the religious ninnies like it or not, they’re outnumbered in Ireland and the UK.
That’s probably only a little below the UK figure.
Even the poll in the the Daily Telegraph, the stuffiest and most religious of papers, showed approval at almost 80%.
Have your say at http://goo.gl/xKafe
Proud to be Irish.
PLS finish the job and get yourself excommunciated
Before God puts you on the superhighway to hell for being catholic and following the Islam of the west.
@….
….i wonder why the vile and racist Jason Brown isn’t commenting on this story today. He was very quick to condemn the Irish on another thread yesterday…..
WHAT?!?!?
That means 27% of Irish DON’T support our right to marry!!!
How dare they, the nasty whiskey-swigging good-for-nothings!!!
Grrrr…!!!!
Oh, goodie everyone. The site’s very own racist buffoon is back again.
I’m just amazed he’s using his own make today.
His own make??
Typo. I meant name.
Well fancy that. Hinge & Brackett back in town, all arms blazing!
The peace and quiet and generally good banter on PN is over until your next break.
Teachers, I take it?
Really? Who gives a f*** what you think. I’m amazed you can show your face here after your recent abusive and, to be frank, insane lunatic behaviour.
I couldn’t give an monkeys about what you think, you’re a repugnant individual. Pretty much a view shared by most people here. Funny that.
And why shouldn’t I show my face around here? I have nothing to be ashamed of, unlike a certain “friend” of yours…
Anyway, with psycho thugs like you and Rob running loose on these boards, snarling and snapping at the heels of anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your extreme left-wing views, it’s about time some healthy balance was restored.
“Anyway, with psycho thugs like you and Rob running loose on these boards,”
LOL!
I believe there is one “physho thug” on this board, and the general population seems to agree its is you. -12 thumbs down is actually better then you normally fare.
To be bluntly honest, you disgust me. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, nothing more than a whining basket case with a schizo persecution complex.
My, my, Will. So full of venomous hate and anger. Really not good for you, you know?
All that negative energy festers and transmutes physically into disease and premature bodily ageing.
Your vicious personality will end up eating you up and spitting you out eventually.
Of course we are a mirror to all around us, reflecting back the state of our inner world and emotions.
So the hate you dish out on a regular basis and the anger you lash out with says more about who you are as a person and how you regard yourself than about those you attack, who of course you can’t possibly know on a personal or physical basis.
May not be too late to get some intensive therapy and heal those major issues and inner demons you are dealing with, Will, old chap, and spare us your toxic bile in the process.
All the rage in LA these days, I hear…
I was merely making the point that when similar statistics last week showed that most Christians supported gay rights, most people cited the statistic as evidence that there was still a vociferous number still opposed to gay rights.
Just making the point that a vocal minority on here clearly have it in for Christians and are hell-bent on criminalising free speech come what may…
Sense of humour bypass, everyone??!!
*rolls eyes* its still wants attention.
Indeed, it is s dad day when the “fight’n Irish green” has turned to “poofball pink.”
It is obvious St. Patrick didn’t drive put ALL the snakes.
““fight’n Irish green”
What the hell are you talking about?!? Bigots, the one thing they all seem to have in common is they are dumb f***s.
@Rob…
….““fight’n Irish green” The comment shows just how dumb and ignorant they are. The Fighting Irish are a regiment of the American army similar to the British Irish Rangers.
The origin of the name though comes from the University of Notre Dame basketball team. In 1909 in a game between UND and Michigan, the coach yelled at his team, who had names like Ryan, Kelly O’Gara etc.. “Your all Irish and not fighting worth a lick” Hence the name was born and stuck.
A regiment of the American Army with a preponderance of irish names and UND grads, during the Viet Nam War or possibly WW2 nicknamed themselves The Fighting Irish, so absolutely nothing to do with Ireland…………
Thankfully for the rest of Ireland and society in general, people like you Patrick Devinshire are a dying breed. One would think St Patrick, if he ever existed today, would drive out bigoted muppets like you.
Keith, why do you never spell check before you press ‘add comment’?
Its becuase he’s usually drunk – no joke. This is Shakespeare compared to the illiterate garbage he usually posts.
is it a ban or just simply not explicitly allowed?
The constitution doesn’t explicitly mention who can or cannot get married. It simply says “The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded, and to
protect it against attack.” (There’s subsequent text from the 16th ammendment permitting divorce.)
However case law (the KAL case, so called from the couple’s initials) has determined that it would need a legislative change for it to apply to same-sex couples. I don’t believe a court has ever determined whether a change in the constitution is actually necessary here.
The court didn’t, but the advice to the government at the time form the Attorney General was that the constitution implied opposite sex marriage, and this was reflected by the court – “Ms. Justice Dunne found that although a ‘living document’, the Irish constitution had always meant for marriage to be between a man and a woman, that the definitions used in the Civil Registration Act of 2004 was an expression of the current attitudes of the state and that she could find no reason to change that.”
The Supreme Court appeal might be more definitive.
“The advice of the government at the time”
You mean the Fianna Fail government?
The government which was itself opposed to equality at the time?
Marriage equality legislation needs to be introduced. There is no need for a referendum.
The bigots will appeal the legislation and the Supreme Court will decide.
It is only IF the Supreme Court finds the legislation unconstitutional that a referendum is required.
And it is by no means a given that the court will find the legislation unconstitutional.
The Irish LGBT community seems to have bought the lie that a vote is required to grant them equality.
It is an obscenity that the rights ot any minority should be dependent on the permission of the majority.
it is a sick, obscene joke and the Irish LGBT community should be crying foul about this.
“Marriage equality legislation needs to be introduced. There is no need for a referendum.”
The Attorney General disagrees with you. Unless you ARE the Attorney General, your comment is an opinion without foundation in reality or legal standing.
“It is only IF the Supreme Court finds the legislation unconstitutional that a referendum is required.”
Then it best to pre-empt this by a constitutional change, isn’t it?
“it is a sick, obscene joke and the Irish LGBT community should be crying foul about this.”
Irrelevant histrionics, sorry.
The Attorney General is not the oracle. And I see no reason to trust the AG of a homophobic party or government.
A vote on minority rights is an obscenity.
If the government legislates for marriage equality I think it would be highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would overrule that legislation.
A referendum however let’s the majority vote on minority rights.
Which is an obscene and disgusting and completely unacceptable situation.
“The Attorney General is not the oracle”
This is a ridiculous statement, the government will almost nearly follow the advice of the AG. Like it or not.
“If the government legislates for marriage equality I think it would be highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would overrule that legislation.”
This is an opinion without foundation, given the high court already deemed the context of the constitution is marriage between a man and a woman.
The only thing we’ve established here is you lack of ability to see reality, the confusing of your opinion with something that should be accepted as fact.
@ David – If the government legislates for marriage equality I think it would be highly unlikely that the Supreme Court would overrule that legislation.
That’s utter tosh. Of course it would be challenged, are you retarded? I’m not even Irish and I know that.
Yes of course the legislation would be challenged in the Supreme Court.
Of course it would.
But it would be unlikely to be overturned – I highly doubt the court would overturn it.
And even if equality was overturned by the court then at least the State could be sued in the European Court of Justice for its ruling (you know – in the same manner that homosexuality was finally decriminalised in Ireland).
Allowing a popular vote on civil rights means that if equality is rejected then we’re in big trouble.
Is there not absolute outrage among the LGBT population that it’s even being considered that a referendum is acceptable.
A referendum on the civil rights of any minority group is an absolute obscenity.
“A referendum on the civil rights of any minority group is an absolute obscenity.”
We’ve been over this, but your refusal to accept the reality baffles me. IS there something wrong with you?
Lets simplify it for you:- the constitution of Ireland falls within the tradition of liberal democracy. IT outlines the rights of the individual, and enshrines them above the government.
i.e the Constitution makes perfectly clear that the source of authority in Ireland and of the fundamental law of the state is the people of Ireland.
This is a good thing, as it prevents irrational despots like you thinking they can impose their will over the majority, over law, and over individual rights – because they think they know best.
Now, that wasn’t too hard, was it?
The Republic of Ireland was one of the countries that inherited Britains laws against homosexuality and did not repeal the ban until 1992 although anti-discrimination legislation had existed several years before. In just 20 years Ireland has made great progress and is now one of the top gay destinations in the world. Most Irish people live within easy commuting distance of major cities such as Dublin and Cork but don’t be surprised if conservative views still exist in the more remote Gaeltacht areas. Six colours on the Rainbow Flag, 40 Shades of Green, Ireland is the place to be seen!
Opinion polls are never totally reliable but it is good news. Ireland has changed dramatically in recent decades. My partner and I had a wonderful holiday in Dublin several years ago and found it a hugely homofriendly place. I know Dublin and the provinces are not the same but go Ireland!!
Even though Ireland only changed laws on homosexuality in the early 90s, Homosexuality in Ireland was never a problem among ordinary people. In my own experience of growing up gay in the North West, there were several older gay men within a mile radious of where I lived in a rural location.They were all out and amongst the most popular men in the locale and were always invited to weddings and house parties or “dances” as they were called. As for myself, now almost 60, I have to say hand on heart that I have never witnessed homophobia In Ireland in my entire life and I am out and proud. Indeed lots of people feel free to discuss being gay in Ireland with me and all are genuinely interested and supportive so this poll does not surprise me in the slightest. We probably would have Marriage Equality long ago but for conservative political parties like Fianna fail and Fine Gail but thankfully these dinosaurs are now waning rapidly,.
I’m very saddened that the LGBT population in Ireland seems to have accepted the idea that a referendum is required to gain equality.
A referendum on the civiil rights of any minority group is an utter disgrace. I think the marriage equality groups there need to start pressurising the Labour Party to introduce marriage equality legislation and then let the courts decide.
No referendum on LGBT rights though
We’ve been over this already. Its been shown clearly to you where you are in error, and yet you persist in histrionics and half truths. You are either an idiot, or there is something wrong with you, and your repeating the SAME thing over and iver again is not a valid substitute for reason.
No referendum on minority rights though.
That’s too disgusting an idea to contemplate. Right?
The basic concepts of the Irish democracy system eludes you, it seems. The referendum was recommended by people clearly smarted than you. You can bluster and rant all you like in here, it wont change the reality – a referendum is needed.
What you think “should” happen is irrelevant. Its called the real world I’m afraid.
Its amazing. Ireland has overcome allits inner turmoil that only ended so recently in their history and have moved to surpass England in its approval of social diversity. Remarkable.
Well done Ireland.
How does 1005 people polled vs 4,481,430 of the population of IRELAND actually make you think Ireland is in support of gay marriage?
Silly polls. Seriously.