So the European Parliament is saying ‘tut tut’ and that’s it?
I want to see economic sanctions imposed on the undemocratic hellhole which is riddled with alcoholics, which Russia now is.
Angry at homophobia, you lash out with racism. Is this not the human tragedy writ small?
‘Russian’ is not a race – so calling Russia an undemocatic dictatorship dump is not racist. It is a point of fact.
And it is a FACT that the average life expectancy for a Russian male is 59 years old (compared to 78 years old for a Russian woman) because of chronic nationwide alcoholism among Russian men.
Russia is a backward dump. That is not up for debate.
It is simply true.
There is no argument that Russia is an imperfect democracy… but then it is starting from scratch after 6 or 7 generations of totalitarian rule which was preceded by serfdom, little more than a state of slavery. However, it is neither backward nor a dump, those are simply sweeping generalisations.
There *are* significant problems in Russia so how does “dumping” on them (including Russian LGBT) help? It is a shame not to respect the hundreds of thousands of ordinary Russian citizens who protested for fair elections despite temperatures of -20 celsius. It is a shame also to take our own much more mature democracy which developed in far more benign circumstances, so much for granted.
writ small or even writ LARGE
Gosh some people sruggle with Geography, the “homosexual propaganda” law is NOT a Russian law, it is a law from the St Petersburg CITY Legislature. Of course it is within the responsibility of Russia but this is a single city within Russia, albeit a large one (of 4.9 Million people) and albeit probably one of the most progressive. Making a bad situation worse really does not help anyone least of all LGBT across the Russian Federation. Russia – St Petersburg hmmm same difference?
So this which will make little difference in Russia IS reported but not the IDAHO Rainbow Flashmob actions of LGBT in 30 locations across Russia… in which Russian LGBT engaged with the Russian public successfully. Where was the reporting of the 17 Day of Silence Actions. Why are LGBT activities within Russia not reported when they are reported? Why are they not news when press releases are provided?
* (should read) Why are LGBT activities within Russia not reported when they are *provided*?
Sadly no mention of an even more severe law (8711) in the Ukraine (a country of 47 Million people and also a signatory to the same treaties). This severe law is compounded by an additional censorship bill.
@David: “hellhole riddled with alcoholics” in my visit to one city in Russia, it was neither a hellhole nor was it riddled with alcoholics. In fact I found Russian LGBT people to be a rather abstemious lot, I saw almost no consumption of alcohol!
Russian men have a life expectancy of 59 (compared to 78 for Russian women) because of alcoholism.
It is riddled with alcoholics.
Perhaps you did not see them as the dictator Putin send them off to gulags?
yes but that does NOT make all Russians alcoholics… presumably you are going to provide evidence of those Gulags. A friend who lives in one of the areas where people were sent during the Soviet times, obviously forgot to tell me about those.
As for the “Dictator” Putin, he obviously wasn’t being all that effective as a dictator in these recentelections. Russian people (and people of other nationalities) across the Russian Federaton responded magnificently. The demonstrations for fair elections included LGBT people and rainbow flags.
With the binge culture in the UK, those in the UK are not in a strong position to throw stones on the question of alcohol!
The danger in Russia is that the number of places adopting such a bill will mushroom, or even that such a law would be adopted at Federal level ie to apply to the whole of the Russian Federation. That would certainly spread to other former CIS states.
This is a similar learning curve to that we experienced in the UK with Section 28, it seems that most societies go through that learning curve. The question is do our actions internationally help or hinder in that learning process. The other question is how do we best support often isolated Russian (and Ukrainian) LGBT people who become extremely vulnerable during this learning process. And when are we going to support Russians who are *not* homophobic like the mother from Siberia who wrote a fantastic letter to the author of the “homosexual propaganda” bill in the St Petersburg City Legilsature?
They really don’t care. The legislators won’t listen to the UN. Economic sanctions won’t bother them either. They will, however, affect regular citizens, regardless whether they are homophobic, gay or whatever.
but Zena, “they” DO listen to reasoned argument from people who clearly respect Russia! :) Why would anyone listen to abuse, did any of us ever change our position when we were simply abused? And yes I agree with Zena, they will listen eventually to ordinary Russian voters, they dont respond well to outside interference so I reckon the best thing non-Russians especially western Europeans can do is to reinforce the Russian LGBT+ citizens across the whole of the 9 timezones of the Russian Federation who are communicating effectively with the Russian public.
“it gets worse” tells a tale… this is the inevitable result of the SUCCESS of LGBT in being visible, why have such a law if they were not? It is pretty much what happened in the UK with Section 28 and yes it gets worse before it gets better but it *does* get better. At least we in the UK have that hope to offer to Russian LGBT people.
how are LGBT in Uganda and Malawi and Jamaica and Russia to eel about that? Did you know the new and female PM of Jamiaca said she’d be delighted to have an openly gay person serve in her cabinet? The Jamiacan High Commission was thrilled that someone in the UK had noticed and had said “Thank you”. As the Jamaican activist at the House of Commons said: Our focus is to remind Jamaicans what real Jamaican values are…
What you probably don’t know is that Moscow’s parlament officially said they are preparing the same law. And that ex-mayor of St. Petersburg (Galina Matvienko) who is now in the federal Russian parlament (gosduma) said that this law should be a federal law. And not even one of authorities have corrected her since.
St. Petersburg is some kind of last resort. If they succeed in pushing the law in our most free and European city – they will be brave and confident enough to push it on countrie’s level. That is what we all (Russian LGBTQ) are afraid of.
Yes absolutely. Da.
Hali can you let me know about developments in Moscow?
We have a considered letter from a respected church to send to them. “Homo-sociality” for beginners!
Remember that David Cameron voted to keep such a law in the UK and in 2009 he said SORRY
Of course it is awful but it is a recognised part of the process that societies go through when LGBT people start being visible. This is a very common response (it happened in the UK). This is the beginning of the “dialogue” not the end… but it is terrible just as a less harsh law in UK was terrible.
We want to send you every support.
It’s good, that European Parliament has adopted this resalution. But I seems that for our government it is nothing. Our TV try to give more negative information about Western countries, thet this countries are immoral and it glad, that EU parliament adopted this “immoral” resalution.
I am not sure about the European Parliament, this parliament is not to make laws for Russia, it can be seen as anti-democratic by some people?
Russophobia is no more justifiable than homophobia. We cannot tackle stereotypes with more stereotypes.