How sad that Mr Stammers feels it appropriate to issue such an emotive an unsubstantiated attack upon this procedure. I do hope that, should he persist in voicing this opnion, he will make some effort to support it with evidence.
Same sh*t, different ars*hole.
His body, his choice.
A fine story ruined by a religious ethics unit fool.
It’s okay for Arnold Schwarzenegger to make a comedy film about being a man carrying a child and making millions out of it but not for people to create their families?
It’s a diverse world out there and these insolent (and insulated) academics need to get over themselves.
Is this something I would do myself if I were able? No! But that is how I am (just not clucky for kids). But I certainly support the right for those who do…and why NOT use the organs which you were incorrectly assigned to your advantage to make your life more complete…and to bring a LOVED child into the world?
These men (and I have NEVER had any hesitation in openly accepting trans people of both genders) risk cancer in retaining organs after sex reassignment surgeries in order to have children.
They deserve support, not condemnation. Their children will grow up knowing how wanted they were. And that is rare enough!
Totally agree with you. The ethics guy isn’t either insulated or a fool though; he is a faculty member of a Bioethics unit at an entirely Roman Catholic University (formerly a training college for teachers at church schools) pushing church doctrine (the Vatican holds transsexuality as a grave disorder, says we are incapable of marriage, and does not recognise any change of sex) as if it was independently researched academic scholarship, with public money. A total disgrace. God knows how they slipped that through, or how it complies with equality for staff and students.
Where has the gay leaflet hate thread disappeared too. Is there to be a cover up now that ‘Stu’ has been revealed too be operating under many different names for ulterior methods and taking us for fools all along? Is this truely an open meeting place where gay topix can be discussed or it it a police state? Credit us with some common sence!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Somebody, I think it was the disgraceful troll Keith, accused me of being a Stu clone. That’s nonsense (‘nonsence’ for the illiterate!) I’m Ben Foster, Chartered Accountant, not to be confused with the orchestra conductor or the football player. My partner prefers a non-de-plume ‘Bent-pin’ when he posts. I don’t know Stu except on these pages, but he does seem to be a person I more or less agree with. That doesn’t make me a clone.
Now, back to the real issue on this thread.
I assumed that the pregnancy was an accident when I turned to the story. To discover that he went through treatment to have a baby was surprising. but it is his decision. Slightly puzzled by the US couple where the man had the babies and the wife breastfed. How does that work? Can hormones make a woman lactate without having a baby? If so, news to me. But either way science is rather amazing in these fields.
Almost any woman can lactate. It just takes plenty of stimulation and even more patience. While pregnancy makes things easier, it is not a requirement.
Hi Ben, the debate over Stu and his multiple aliases and his manipulation and deceitful use of these boards has not been taken down at all:- it has merely moved down a few stories.
I suspect Pink News is content to see this debate run to expose the extreme faction that has hijacked and abused these boards for so long and been determined to stamp free, open and balanced debate and drive non-politically correct conformists off these threads.
I think you’re a bit paranoid, Samuel. How about dropping this nonsense now and sticking to real issues?
Please give it a rest Samuel B. This has becomes tiresome and to be hones, very embarrassing for you. I have no idea who half these people are you are bullying here, but I’m sure they do not care either.
I’m afraid that the claim that this is the first case in the UK is (as is often the case) ill researched and misleading.
When I researched this piece of mine about Thomas Beattie in 2008 I identified several previous instances of trans men having babies, including a case in the UK
Congratulations to the father.
Pink news, you really should know better! The term “sex change” is no longer an acceptable analogy! Trans people do not “change their sex”. They know what sex they are so a “sex change” in unnecessary! It is a reassignment of their physicality that is taking place. I am surprised that an lgbT news service would require this lesson!!
Very, very clumsy writing, please up your game PN
“Sex change” is perfectly acceptable usage for some, how dare erase the diversity and try to dictate our self-identities!
For those who have always experienced only the one gender, and had an overwhelming need to change physical sex, “gender reassignment” is quite inappropriate, and “sex reassignment” or “sex-change” is right. It is far from the only experience herded under the trans umbrella, but it is strong, valid, and not to be erased.
Trevor Stammers appears to have no particular knowledge of the circumstances of this case, and seems to have made his statement that this toddler is unlikely to have a “happy, productive” childhood purely because of the gender and trans status of the child’s parents.
I have no idea how Mr Stammers (or his employer) feels it appropriate for a Director of Medical Ethics to make negative statements to the press about a case involving a child, particularly when those statements are based solely on prejudice rather than any research evidence or even personal knowledge of the case.
Clearly Mr Stammers’s notion of good ethical conduct is not mine.
He is a faculty member of a Bioethics unit at an entirely Roman Catholic University (formerly a training college for teachers at church schools) pushing church doctrine (the Vatican holds transsexuality as a grave disorder, says we are incapable of marriage, and does not recognise any change of sex) as if it was independently researched academic scholarship, with public money. A total disgrace. God knows how they slipped that through, or how it complies with anti-discrimination and safe environment for staff and students.
The college’s “Equality and Diversity” web page states:
“St Mary’s is a Catholic Foundation with a mission to provide high quality academic and professional higher education within a collegial ethos inspired and sustained by Christian Values”.
They obviously believe that propagating christian phobias (homophobia, transphobia, etc.) is ALL they need to do for Equality and Diversity: and they’re perfectly blatant about it.
Thank god I’m an ordained atheist minister. — http://FirstChurchOfAtheism.com
As I have said before on this site, the desire to have children transcends sex, gender, sexual orientation and even psychical ability. Some people have that bit of brain that will make them pay and go through just about anything to allow themselves to have a family. If you are a trans man you might decide to endure the emotional distress of using those part of you’re anatomy you want rid of. If you are a trans woman you might freeze some sperm and use a surrogate.
It really is nobodies business but the person concerned. I cant help feeling this article is a statement of intent from news international after being given a bloody nose at the Levingson inquiry by Trans Media Watch.
Plenty of trans people are parents and kids turn out just fine following a mother or fathers transition.
You talk of trans men bearing babies, and trans women’s sperm, and people being great parents still after transitioning, and all that is fine, and true, but nowhere, ever, is there recognition that there are others of us in the diversity who experience a sometimes desperate need for offspring in the way appropriate for our gender. People T-to-M who would seriously rather die than be pregnant, and T-to-F who absolutely will not reproduce as do men, and deeply desire to be pregnant, and a mother in every way.
The “community” (excluding us) allowed psychiatric textbooks to say none of us at all had any maternal instincts, until I raised it in 1999. Yet many of us are very maternal as toddlers, and some have raised adopted children, despite the barriers.
We need an end to adoption discrimination and delaying girls’ hormones until they donate sperm, and for research programmes on created fertility (which are Catholic opposed) to be funded and non-discriminatory.
“You are hardly going to end up with a baby that’s going to have a happy, productive and optimal childhood.”
Do you know what babies are most likely not to “have a happy, productive and optimal childhood”?
Accidental babies whose parents may not be mentally or financially ready to have children yet. Not the children of parents who have clearly put a lot of thought and effort into their conception and are prepared for their arrival.
Pink News: STOP USING “SEX CHANGE OPERATION”. IT IS NOT ACCURATE IN THE SLIGHTEST. It implies that you do not officially “become” the gender you identify as until you have surgery, which is bullcrap, because there are many trans people who NEVER get surgery or even hormones (because they either don’t want to, or can’t for some reasons), but who still identify as a gender different from birth. They deserve to be seen as the gender they see themselves as, surgeries or not. It is referred to as Gender Reassignment. Also, it is not one catch-all operation that trans people get when transitioning; there are more than one surgeries and treatments to get. Stop spreading outdated and misinformed language like this, PLEASE.
Sorry this has nothing to do with the article, but this really bothers me.
Please do not dictate how other’s experience may be related. For some of us “sex” and “gender” are not interchangeable, as you use them. “Sex change” is perfectly acceptable, valid and accurate usage for some amongst the diversity, and not to be erased, smeared as “outdated”, or dismissed and denigrated as hierarchical posturing.
Others having different needs has no more relevance to validity than amongst diverse ethnicities, ages, religions, or disabilities.
For those who have always experienced only the one gender, and had an overwhelming need to change physical sex, “gender reassignment” is quite inappropriate and implies nothing changes for us with SRS, when the reality is of overwhelming need and significance. The erasure goes with refusal to campaign internationally for puberty at the same age as peers, for access to excellent and free SRS, and the insidious increasing of the minimum age for SRS. Those are discrimination within the gender and sexual identity diversity.
Aren’t you destestable though Keith!… as well as being sad, lonely and pathologically obsessed with LGBT issues.
Ex-gay “therapy” hasn’t made you in the least bit straight Keith but it has turned you into a lonely gay comments board troll.
You’ve been turned against your own people and now you belong nowhere, I genuinely find that so very sad.
He reminds me of Alan from “The boys in the band”.
Can’t say anything nice, but can’t look away or leave either…
Yes – you are.
well nobody is going to defend you, are they? Stupid troll.
“I see the flotsam has surfaced to defend depravity!”
Yes you have, Keith, you you have.
Well done on spotting that about yourself.
If only now you can kick the drink and treat the schizophrenia….
Well done. You have finally admitted it to yourself…….
How can a new life being brought into the world be detestable?
I thought the invisible sky fairy brigade was all for that sort of thing!
why does James Park feel the need to include other trans men who’ve given birth? That’s like writing an article about Beyonce giving birth and then listing all the other black women who’ve also given birth. Like, wtf? Only three paragraphs were given to this man and the rest is just bull. And there’s always the classic descriptions of the surgeries and the hormones and the like. What is wrong with you cis people?
What is the point of declaring to everyone you are the opposite gender?
It seems like the worst kind of pandering to traditional gender stereotypes to me.
Gender is not a constructed thing.
Gender stereotypes are.
Gender is not harmful.
How is simply having a gender pandering to stereotypes? Also protip: transgender people aren’t the ‘opposite gender’, they are the gender they are- in this case, he is a man.
Oh yeah, men giving birth is TOTALLY pandering to gender stereotypes XD
I know it’s his body, and his choice, and I have no problem with a man who has had gender reassignment having a baby. I really don’t care what anyone else does if it harms no one else. But doesn’t a man who had a female body having a baby go in the opposite direction of why he would have gender reassignment? I mean, does a woman reassign to be a man so that he can be a man? Because men don’t have babies, women do.
Perhaps his reassignment wasn’t to be a man, but a woman inside (having a womb) but a man’s body on the oustide. Oh, I’m confused. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, I mean no offence. I’m just trying to understand? Maybe he’s a third gender. And that’s all there is to it? Good luck to him and his new family, whatever the answer is.
I guess there’s more to being a woman than “having babies” – and vice versa.
Obviously. But why identify as a clearly defined gender – male, if you are going to give birth like a woman?
It’s like Riondo says below – it’s society that designates him in a clearly defined gender as a man.
It’s not like there’s an option on his passport for “Man with a womb”
But surely having your gender reassigned is about rigid notions of gender – male and female? I’ve always thought that when someone who was born in a male body but feels as if they are female, or female and feels they are male, then they are wanting to change their body to physically become as close to the gender they truly are. It sounds as if what you and Riondo are suggesting is that someone who reassigns their gender does not want to be the gender they reassign to, but something else that is not clearly defined. So therefore, by having a baby, he doesn’t want to be male, but an undefined gender. I’m sure the majority of those who have their gender reassigned don’t think that way. They want to be either seen as male or female?
The culture’s rigid notions of sex and gender create the confusion. In reality people’s individual identities and feelings about their bodies vary greatly, and they don’t necessarily focus their sense of self on clearly separated categories.
I think mostly it’s because if a trans man has a non fertile partner they sometimes choose to fulfill that role themselves simply because those that haven’t had a hysterectomy can.
It’s different for everyone. Some people feel comfortable to never undergo surgery, or to undergo only top surgery. Some people undergo top and bottom surgery and numerous other surgeries to make their physical appearance fit in with society’s rigid ideas of masculine and feminine.
As someone else says, the desire to have a child transcends gender. A trans* man giving birth doesn’t make him any less of a man.
“Some people undergo top and bottom surgery and numerous other surgeries to make their physical appearance fit in with society’s rigid ideas of masculine and feminine.” — I guess that’s how you imagine their motivation, but it probably is wrongly denigratory of their diversity. From my experience in the opposite direction, and that of many others I know, there are physical needs, and spontaneous body images of such urgency and power driving the physical change of sex that others could never even imagine, and society has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Others having different needs has no more relevance to validity or hierarchy than amongst diverse ethnicities, ages, religions, or disabilities.
There is no such thing as a man giving birth. Stop saying there is. He is a trans-man with female reproductive organs. This isn’t me being ignorant its just the truth.
I don’t really think you are in any position to define the ‘truth’ on who is a man or not, unless you are either a god or a leading scientist somewhere in the field of gender studies.
He is a man. You may be prejudiced against the idea, but he is. He just happens to have female reproductive organs.
Either way. A man just gave birth, whether you like it or not. And you are ignorant because you are basing your ‘truth’ on your limited knowledge. How much studying or research have you done into the physical brain structure or chromosomal structure of a trans man?
If you think reproductive organs define what makes a person who they are, then quite frankly, you’re selling yourself short – and that little boy born with extra genitals in his back (it was actually a case of fetus in fetu)? He must be twice the man you are.
…..”unless you are either a god ” These few words rendered your entire comment a nonsense…. How could he be an imaginary deity?
I believe he was being sarcastic.
Not being prejudiced at all. You have to have been born a female with a vagina to give birth to a baby. Why does that make him twice the man i am for just stating the obvious. Grow up.
There seem to be quite a few gay men who are paying surrogates to bear children, who say they would rather bear the child themselves. Does that make them not men? Clearly it doesn’t. So is the denigration of this guy just transphobia perhaps?
Congratulations to the family! I’m sure as with any family that has to undergo treatment in order to have their children ( mine included) this child has been thought out, dreamt about, planned for, parent/s gone through hell & back emptionally & hormonally to get pregnant & are over the moon with their bundle of joy.
This whole thing is just so pathetically sad, especially for the poor children, who will grow up with the stigma and bullying. Watch this space.
Expected better from Pink News
Babies! :D How adorable :3 I hope he and his kid are happy and have good fortune! :D :D :D
When I’m married I want to have kids, so why can’t this guy have kids?
I don’t get this, the core fundamental biological difference between and man and a woman is one produces the eggs and carries the child (except seahorses) and the other provides a fertiliser.
Yet this individual has chosen to become a man in appearance, because that’s what he feels he truly is, but has now gone and had and carried a child of his own.
Smacks of having it both ways to me, pick one or the other, be a man – don’t carry a kid, stay a woman carry your kids.