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Amazon sells book on ‘gays going to hell’

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  1. This is hateful stuff, shouldn’t be peddled to children etc., but should we really be trying to prevent (lobby against) booksellers from selling books on ideas we don’t like? People did that for a long time to us and it wasn’t nice then. Lobbying against employment or services discrimination, definitely, against people verbally assaulting us in our classrooms, streets, and workplaces sure, but not against their ideas being propagated in books.

    1. Helen Wilson 6 Feb 2012, 11:58am

      As long as its only indexed alongside all the other fundamentalist religionist stuff they should have the freedom to sell it.

    2. Customer services aren’t too helpful, but these big companies hate bad publicity. Why not email pressoffice@amazon.co.uk and tell them that they are alientating their LGBT customers and possibly breaching UK anit-hate laws? It is a valid email address have just phoned to confirm.

    3. But would they stock a book called ‘All Jews are gonna burn’??

      1. Good point.

      2. They already do, but it’s called mein kampf.

  2. There is also a book entitled ‘gay mommies going to hell’, a charming story about a girl whose mommies do nothing but drink at gay bars. Disgusting! I will be complaining because I disagree with this.

  3. Amazon also sells the Bible that says homosexuals, and non-Christians are going to Hell.

    1. the difference being the bible is a work of fiction – This obscene publication is just vile – Look out for my next book –

      GODS DO NOT EXIST – so how do you justify your blinding hatred now?

    2. Are you sure the Bible says that about homosexuals? My reading is that it’s remarkably ambiguous

      1. i agree – the words homosexuals will burn in (an imaginary place called) hell are not in any english version of the book

    3. i’m not sure that is QUITE what it says!!
      BUT, it DOES say that you should not eat shellfish?!! and that disobedient children should be STONED TO DEATH. and that if someone in your town practices another religion then the WHOLE towns people should ALL be killed, along with any livestock (and just to be completely sure, burn the whole place to the ground) TRULY this is in the bilble.
      When these “fundamental” religious types start following their religious text TO THE LETTER, then I shall denounch my homosexuality and marry a woman!!!! Can’t say fairer than that!

      1. Amen! Agnostic here.

    4. the Bible cannot say that.
      first off, Jesus never mentions homosexuality, so the New Testament certainly doesn’t say gay people are going to hell.
      secondly, the old testament is a Jewish text, and hell is not a concept in Judaism, so it’s certainly not in that part of the book either.

  4. Jason Brown 6 Feb 2012, 10:53am

    ‘Christians going to nowhere’
    A book about how religion has prevented progress in science, tolerance and logic.

  5. This is the third example of hate inspired publications that Amazon have stocked that sought to incite hatred against LGBT people.

    In the instance around Christmas their rude and obnoxious communications with customers who raised concerns made it crystal clear that Amazon do not care about gay people whatsoever.

    Amazon think they can get away with this because people will just keep coming to them as customers and they can ignore legitimate concern (and in many cases refuse to escalate complaints).

    The time has come for all LGBT people to withdraw their custom from Amazon and for direct action against Amazon. Until and unless Amazon both withdraw ALL products that incite hatred and could cause LGBT people to consider suicide or be psuchologically harmed AND address very publically their failure to support diversity and a significant sector within society. Otherwise it can only be seen that Amazon support, encourage and actively promote homophobia and agree with the rhetoric.

    1. Ideas, anyone?

    2. Already done – no more Amazon for this contributor – my money goes where respect and common decency towards all people is a policy

    3. What rude and obnoxious communications? I never even got a response. Got a link to any of them?

      1. If you look to the story about Amazon on PN in December – you will see that I cut and paste some of the responses I did get from Amazon at that point …

        Including a refusal to escalate my concerns.

    4. Anything goes in batty boys world 6 Feb 2012, 8:06pm

      Their business is selling books for goodness sake. Ifyou want a cuddle, see the Samaritans!

  6. Does it actually praise ‘science and technology’ before going on to affirm unprovable superstitious belief?
    If so, it’s the usual incoherent lunacy. Don’t ban. Ridicule.

  7. It’s so disappointing because Amazon is one of the only places I can buy books for my son which reflects his family in a positive light. I just feel betrayed, dramatic? Maybe!

  8. ‘condemns its fall into an “evil pit of violence, green, sexual immorality and paganism”.’

    I’m not sure what an ‘evil pit of green’ is, but if this quote is representative of the general froth-mouthed hysterical tone of the text, surely no-one with two brain cells to rub together could manage more than a few pages.

  9. To be fair, they do sell mein kampf, amongst other racist and homophobic books. I don’t like the book, but I’m not sure that censoring is the answer. I just read the review for mein kampf and thought this was interesting……..
    “If you want to learn about why the Holocaust happened, you can’t avoid reading the words of the man who was most responsible for it happening. Mein Kampf, therefore, must be read as a reminder that evil can all too easily grow.”
    In the same vein, perhaps this book will be viewed as hateful as mein kampf one day and reveal the christians to be what they truly are and show future generations what they were responsible for.

    1. I think the German government have the right idea with Mein Kampf …. its a piece of hate literature that should not be distributed

    2. When I said a ban – I meant a self imposed ban by Amazon – demonstrating responsibility

  10. Chris Joyce 6 Feb 2012, 11:06am

    I also noticed this charming tome “GAY MOMMIES GOING TO HELL [Kindle Edition]” it looks like it was written and drawn by a village idiot. The synopsis is as follows:

    GAY MOMMIES GOING TO HELL shows the sad life of small lonely Alexandra as she watches her mommy drink and hang out in gay bars and meets her new partner Irene a vicious lesbian who leads Alexandra’s mommy to ruin and finally to hell. If you are clinically liberal and like to pitch for the opposing team then this book will open your eyes to the international conspiracy of lesbianism to destroy our wonderful United States.

    Hateful, Hateful stuff.

    1. You know you’re in trouble when all the positive reviews on the sleeve of your book are from Glenn Beck.

    2. Father Ted 6 Feb 2012, 3:45pm

      Are you sure it’s not a spoof? It certainly sounds like one. But I’m aware not many Americans in the Bible belt have a sense of irony.

      1. They call it ‘Poe’s Law’, the notion that any rabid fundamentalist dogma is such an overblown caricature of itself, parodies become indistinguishable from the real deal.

  11. I still think that inciting hatred is wrong (despite some of you not supporting a ban) …

    I think regardless of a ban happening (or not) Amazon need to make a clear public statement on their views as an organ isation re homophobia and other forms of hatred …

    They remain unclear …

    I would support a ban of anything that clearly incites hatred, personally …

    1. But the bible incites hatred. The koran incites hatred. Do you think they should be banned? Do you also think all literature which may incite hatred of religion should be banned? Do you agree with the islamic fundamentalists that the satanic verses should be banned? Where do you draw the line Stu. Most books offend someone or incite some form of hatred, except Mr Men books.

      1. Dr Robin Guthrie 6 Feb 2012, 11:21am

        Of course the Mr Men books are offensive.

        I’ve been called Mr Grumpy for years now and I am offended….;-)

      2. Banning books is often counterproductive anyhow, as the second print usually comes with a sticker on the cover that reads “The book THEY tried to ban” as a perverse recommendation in itself.
        It generates interest in any mediocre dross you care to mention, because the public don’t like being told what they can and can’t read (even if it was boycotted in the first place for being badly written, bigoted BS).

      3. This James! This is exactly what I mean. perfectly said mate!

      4. James

        I get where you are coming from but when you talk about the Bible and the Koran, it is merely an interpretation of that which is seen as inciting hatred … there are other interpretations which others hold to and its far from clear what either the Bible or the Koran have to say on homosexuality per se …

        In terms of Satanic Verse no I would not support banning it – but part of my reason for that is that the Satanic verse is clearly a work of fiction … it does not set itself out as a factual book – whereas this book does …

        I think where there is clear incitement to hatred, no responsible, moral or humane retailer would stock it – Amazon are clearly wanting in that regard …

        I think Mein Kampf in Germany is an exception to the rule, where I totally agree with the absolute banning of the book due to the particular unique cicrumstances involved …

        I do not call for the book in this case to be banned – merely for retailer/publishers to act responsibly

        1. No Stu, it is not interpretation of the bible and koran which incites hatred of different groups. It clearly state in both books that various groups should be killed and treated with contempt – do I really have to provide examples? It has nothing to do with interpretation, both books incite hatred.
          So now you don’t want the ‘bad’ books banned, merely for retailers to act responsibly. Do you think the bible and koran should be in the same list of acting responsibly. And what is this act of responsibility that retailers should carry out?
          Richard Dawkins incites the hatred of religious people. Should his books also have this ‘act of responsiblity’? I think not. It’s called freedom of speech.

          1. @James

            I will have to take your word for it regarding the Koran, I only have read a small portion … but certainly the way you describe it is far different to how I have heard gay Muslims describing it …

            With regards the Bible, I have read this in detail in the past including considering contextualisation and I do not agree that the Bible sends out a message that homosexuals should be killed. Of course both religious extremists and those opposing them can pick and mix different verses to evidence any point (to one extent or another) but the overall message is not one of killing homosexuals …

            I think inciting hatred of any kind is irresponsible, immoral and destructive …

          2. @James

            Your wording “So now you don’t …” seems to imply that I have changed my view …

            To be crystal clear on this … I have not changed my stance … I have said all along I do not think Amazon should sell this (if they are a responsible retailer) …

            Others chose to use the word censorship – that was not my word … nor have I called for a ban …

            I expllained my views on responsible retailers in order to to clarify my position as others seemed to be trying to twist my views …

          3. The overall message is not one of killing gays? Mayb o a sophisticate Christian. But Stu, tell that to a Ugandan Christian. Even the Anglicans had to be pressured to (eventually) not support the death penalty for gays. They all pointed to the bible for justification.

          4. @A N Spit

            They are examples of more pick and mix theology in action …

            Its bizarre anyone would set their life course on a set of books – some poetry, some prose, some allegely narrative of facts, some fable, some “propohecy” as a manner to lead ones life … but what is more bizarre is that one would read into those words meaning that is not there, or pick and choose the segments if the book is so important …

  12. “This is not a book to win friends but to call sinners to repentance.”

    Well I agree with the first half of that synopsis at any rate.
    Perhaps that’s why it retails at 77p thought that’s still 77p more than it’s worth.
    A part of me wonders if by drawing attention to these bargain bin bigots we’re giving them free publicity for products they couldn’t shift a single unit of without the controversy.
    I think the ‘Striesand effect’ may apply here, though shame on Amazon for selling it in the first place.

  13. This is certainly a mindless piece of drivel but how is censoring it any different from censoring books like “Heather has Two Mommies”?
    When we advocate for censorship of another, we leave ourselves open for censorship.
    Why not write another book that refutes this one and points out, in the worlds of their own prophet, Jesus Christ how they are headed towards their mythical hell?

    1. I think I have to agree here. This book is an awful travesty of trash, but I am in some agreement that removing it is a kin to censorship – once that is, it doesn’t not call for violence or murder of gay people.

      I would have pity for any moron who thinks this is worth even the 77p – the piece of nonsense is over valued by 77p. But what is revealing is that the author is “A. Christian” – Seriously, is (s)he that much of a coward? Go figure…

    2. Best idea so far. Censorship is a tricky one, but Amazon should say something to chill people out a bit.

      1. Amazon certainly should issue some sort of statement … their lack of willingness to engage with LGBT concerns and their silence on this matter is deafening (and there have been a few issues raised now) …

        Clearly Amazon have some “values” as they do not sell or allow marketplace sellers to sell pornography … How do they establish their censorship policies … how is acceptable content decided upon?

        If a market stall is selling something that some people find immoral and it becomes an issue of public debate, surely the market managers would either stop it being sold or issue a public statement explaining whether or not they agreed with the product (even if they supported the freedom of the stall holder to seel it) – why is Amazon different?

    3. Why is choosing not to stock a certain book censorship? In a free market, a vendor should be able to choose its stock.

    4. the difference between “heather has two mommies” and “Gays are going to hell” is that the former does not advocate for hatred against a group, while the latter does.

      I am ALL for censorship of hate speech.

  14. It is good to see that the verdict here in the comments is not for a ban. I would be very uncomfortable with any kind of move to censor free speech – even if it is free speech that is offensive.

  15. Well to be honest hell is preferable to spending eternity with people like the ones who wrote this book!

  16. Deeside Will 6 Feb 2012, 11:43am

    Let those who wish to buy trash like this buy it. “A fool and his money are soon parted.”

    1. Quite frankly with a title like that they’re preaching to the converted anyhow.
      If you part with cash to read this of your own free will, your mind is made up already and a LGBT boycott won’t change that.

    2. It’s ok to profit from hatred then? I don’t think so.

      How would it be if you substituted LGBT for Black or Divorcees?

      1. Well they do believe divorcees are going to hell unless they repent. If they said Bankers I doubt many would object, and incidentally, it’s why so many of them built huge churches in Italy in the past, to try and avoid that fate.

  17. Have amazon been notified ? I can’t see that it’d be legal to sell a pile of faeces online, why is this book any different?

  18. I say let them sell it. When religion is finally dead – which won’t be long, given how fast atheism is spreading around the world – it will be held up as an example of how evil, ridiculous and backward ‘faith’ really was

    1. You’re probably right, though I have some sympathy for the poor closet gay in the school Christian Union, struggling with his sexuality, who is just the type to read this, get totally screwed up and commit suicide.

      1. Actually, A N, YOU are probably right, and I have come back to retract my earlier comments.

        I’ve just watched a sickening video of four burly black guys savagely beating a smaller guy for being a ‘fag’. Utterly, utterly brutal.

        And where do all these ideas start? From “literature” such as this.

        How much longer should we tolerate intolerance?

  19. Have called Amazon to complain. I stated that I thought this may breach anti-hate laws in the UK. The woman I spoke to was in Jamaica, so she had no clue!

    1. Doubtful, unless it incites violence.

  20. I would like to know if Amazon would find it okay to sell books with the titles:
    All Black people are going to hell, or
    All French people are going to hell, or
    All Disabled people are going to hell, or
    All Woman are going to hell.

    I seriously doubt Amazon would sell books with these kinds of discrimination but find it okay to sell this book!!!

    1. French people? Not a strong point in your argument.

    2. Well said, Gaz

  21. Another nail in religions ever darker coffin! They just can’t help themselves. They are the ones who are perverse with a hatred that is perpetual and ever deepening. By all means complain if your offended in any way, but sometimes its good to let them let rip, and show their true homophobic colours. Then the whole of society can see their evil and vile mind set.

  22. It looks like it tells gay, trans, AND bi people that they’re going to hell. Why leave off the last one in this article?

  23. Singapore Sam 6 Feb 2012, 1:19pm

    Books like this are freely available in Singapore, while books criticising the use of the death penalty are prosecuted, and gay couples are deleted from home improvement shows. Go figure.

    1. I’m not sure if Singapore a gay friendly country.

  24. The title of the book alone illustrates to many other people – including “Christians” – just how ridiculous these religious fanatics are. This book is supposed to “call sinners to repentance”??!! The only people who might buy that piece of garbage are the ones who are already as stupid, hateful, judgmental and bigoted as the author. If only people like those are in “heaven” then PLEASE send me to HELL!!! And for the people who actually believe in the crap in this book, after you read it be sure to sing a chorus of “Jesus Loves Me Yes I Know,” say “goo-goo gaa-gaa,” and then suck your thumb until you fall asleep…!

  25. Father Ted 6 Feb 2012, 1:27pm

    Telling anyone at all that (1) there is a hell and (2) they are going to it, is both hateful and presumptuous.

    Should books be banned for saying so? Not if it is simply expressing a point of view. But perhaps if it is done with the intention to stir up hatred and violence against a group of people.

    Banning books is a dangerous path though. Look how many places ban books that have a positive view of gay people.

    1. But do retailers have to stock them?

      Would a responsible retailer stock them and wish to be allied to the thoughts within them?

      1. Father Ted 6 Feb 2012, 3:51pm

        That’s semantics. If everyone is pressured not to sell something, it’s effectively the same as banning something. I suppose it could be limited to religious retailers though, where people may expect it. Maybe on the top shelf in brown paper.

        1. No its a choice whether retailers stock them …

          They can choose whether to sell such reprehensible rubbish or not …

          Giving a retailer with information to help them making that choice is not pressuring them – thats their decision to make …

          A reputable business would listen to its customers though …

  26. These fundamentalists should stop existing. They are the real villains in this world.
    Why be scared of hell if it’s only an imaginary place. Evidence is, hell is not an Old Testament doctrine. it was only invented during later Christian times. whenever these fundies use their bibles (quoting from OT) to condemn gay people, their bible simply fails them.

    1. Father Ted 6 Feb 2012, 3:55pm

      Wasn’t it adopted from the Roman and Greek concepts of the underworld, though those weren’t seen as particularly bad places, just another realm. I wonder where it does come from. Is it mentioned in that hallucinogenicly inspired Book of Revelations? I feel a google coming on.

      1. I remember reading that Hell was part of an Etruscan myth that was passed on to the early Romans.

  27. If I ran Amazon I would’t stock this book. (and i’d be very rich). but If book sellers get to make the major choices about which books we can buy I can see this being problematic. maybe its better that the customers/consumers make choice not to buy. this book is never going to be top of the most popular list. only people specifically searching for it will find it.

  28. Just makes me laugh. They might as well threaten me with being sent to Mordor, it is just as fictional and relevant to me…

    1. I love that analogy. Consider it stolen and in use!

    2. :-) I like …

    3. Hell does exist, but we know it as Slough.

      1. Having worked in Slough … I entirely agree!!!

  29. Miguel Sanchez 6 Feb 2012, 3:29pm

    I find this book funny. Now, I’m not a religious person but there is one thing I remember. And that is “Judge not and ye shall not be judged.” Which means only God himself has the right to judge us on that day.
    The person who wrote this will have to answer for it when he has his own judgment day.

    I don’t like seeing it sold but if Amazon sells things geared for us gays, then they have to give equal rights to others, even though we totally disagree with it.

  30. I like Amazon , but I must say this is happening far to frequently….that said they do sell a vast amount of products and so it can be hard to vet such stuff . Still needs to be removed if you ask me.

  31. Keith Farrell 6 Feb 2012, 4:21pm

    one would think that Amazon would get the message that this type of book of hate is not acceptable. If you have any Amazon shares dump them. what a group of idiots alowing themselfs to maket such a book

  32. I looked at the preview of the book. It does the standard fundy/fascist thing of looking back to a golden age that really never existed, in this case a mere 100 years ago!

    You know, when people died in their tens of millions for national pride in world wars.

    1. So true.

      And children regularly died of food poisoning or polio and other diseases, they were regularly beaten and often worked long hours. For adults sex was rarely talked about and only “allowed” within marriage, women couldn’t vote, racism was rife, many other freedoms we take for granted weren’t there etc.

      Yes it truly was a wonderful time…

  33. I believe in free speech but not when it harms others! Bigots like this shouldn’t be allowed a voice!

    1. GingerlyColors 7 Feb 2012, 7:33am

      There is a fine balance between ‘free speech’ and ‘hate speech’. In the USA bigots get away with using far stronger language citing 1st Amendment rights than they would over here.

      1. @Gingerlycolors

        They do indeed …

        That does not mean that the US interpretation of free speech is right … Sometimes I wonder where they see the exercising of responsibility in free speech …

        Equally there is an understanding of hate speech in the US (in many states) and action has been taken successfuly to prevent hate speech …

    1. I bet they didnt promise any action

  34. Disappointing non response from Amazon

    “Thank you for you contact with Amazon. Amazon values all feedback from its customers and your comments have been passed to the appropriate team for consideration”

    1. Ian Bower 6 Feb 2012, 8:21pm

      I didn’t even get that much from them :(

  35. So we all vote with our pink pounds and stop shopping on Amazon.

  36. Meh, Amazon is full of books written by fundamentalists and many other kinds of kooks. It is also full of pseudo scientific books. People who wade around in their own bigotry and stupidity will only reach people on their own level.

  37. GingerlyColors 7 Feb 2012, 7:29am

    Why does Amazon stock material that is blatently homophobic. Just look at the title, you can tell it’s a load of bigoted garbage the sort that the Westboro Baptist Church would put out. They say that you should never judge a book by it’s cover but anybody can tell what that one is about. Amazon, stop selling c##p like that or lose a lot of your customers!

    1. The thought did occur that it could’ve been penned by one of the Phelps clan under a pseudonymn.
      But they would probably have used the word “fags” in the title somewhere.

  38. It gets worse! 9 Feb 2012, 2:09pm

    Stu(pid) said…
    “It looks like it tells gay, trans, AND bi people that they’re going to hell. Why leave off the last one in this article”

    So if you warn people that smoking causes cancer is that also hate speech?
    It is by your perverted reasoning!

    1. LOL!

      Look, it thinks it can think like people do.

      Keithie want a drink? Yeah? Yeah? Fetch the drink! Go on boy, fetch the drink! Good boy!

      1. Vauxhall-Boy 9 Feb 2012, 6:58pm

        Who is this w@nker, Will?

        He sounds as though is a barrel laughs (to laugh at!)

        1. He’s some nut that comes in here under the name Keith and started this tirade of madness about gays killing babies and stuff about, well, mostly excrement and his anus (clearly deeply obsessed with his anus). He usually comes in here drunk, you can spot some of his posts the spelling degrades so much the comment is garbage and makes zero sense. He also promotes “ex-gay” conversion – apparently he’s a poster boy for them, if you can accept being drunk and ranting on a gay site a “cure”.

          Personally, the man is so off the wall and so broken, he’s hilarious. His posts keep getting deleted too, so it makes him literally kick off childish tantrums in here. That’s even funnier.

          1. Vauxhall-Boy 10 Feb 2012, 4:30pm

            Sounds like good sport ….

          2. Oh, he is.

            He’s like a drunk clown, only funnier.

            And stupider.

            And probably more ridiculous.

  39. I have contacted Amazon.co.uk and explained this issue to them, stating it is in breach of policy:

    “Illegal products that promote racism, hatred or discrimination”
    Source: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=help_search_1-1?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200293290&qid=1328802701&sr=1-1

    This states that any item being sold or shipped to the European Union is subject to a set of additional regulations outlining restricted products.

    It will be interesting to see what happens from here. While I do believe everyone should have the right to their religion, and be covered by what it requires, there are some things which should not be within the public domain. This product being one of them.

    The lady I spoke to at Amazon was a little dismissive, didn’t take any details or give any detailed information, she did state that this will be invesigated.

    Let’s wait and see what happens :)

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