So in reality, the “ex gay” councillor is basically a pervert. Making 18 year olds undress in a locked room and do what he wants… I bet he had a wank after… disgusting way to treat people, Hope the young guy can get over all this, and realise there is nothing wrong or dirty in being what you realy are.
Yet again,another crusade by the church forces either change or destruction of the lives of their fellow human beings. I truly feel angry and saddened for people who allow this to happen to themselves. As much as you love your families, their ignorance should not be yours.
Surely in this case you would mean synagogue?
Stu, why do you keep pointing out such pointless trivialities?
“Church” is widely accepted as the collective term for places of worship of all denominations. A Jewish church is indeed a synagogue, as 99.999% of people reading this will already have deduced. It doesn’t need spelling out.
Note that dirk mentions “church forces”, of which the Jewish religion is but one force. He wasn’t specifying the Jewish church in particular.
Can we please cut out the petty chatter which, as I have pointed out elsewhere, risks deviating from the debate in hand and on occasion has steered the topic being discussed into a cul de sac?
Sometimes I do wonder if you find any reason to post on here simply to maintain your mantle as most prolific poster on PN and, as someone else remarked last week, a deity who we are all meant to look up to.
Your proliferance and nit-picking on here is clearly rubbing up quite a few people the wrong way!
You may think its pointless, I don’t and I know I am not the only one …
I sometimes find your language and approach undesireable and personal …
Yadda Yadda Yadda
I second that.
but both share the same purpose
i suppose its like Stu means stuart / stewart.
Not exactly …
A synagogue is not a church …
but hey …
both share the same purpose, so it just a matter of semantics
It IS a matter of semantics, but the point is we are all adult and intelligent enough to realise that, so why does Stu have to be so literal and hyper-precise about everything?
In doing so he consistently comes over as condescending and sometimes patronising, and it has got to the point where it needs pointing out, particularly as he appears to have appointed himself as PN’s unofficial forum moderator.
This would be a far more chilled out and pleasurable forum to post on if Stu did not give the impression he was lurking in every corner, ready to jump on everyones’ last word and demanding evidence for this and that where the point someone is making is self-evident.
Everyone sets out to put their point across clearly on PN, some more articulately than others, and we are all adult enough to grasp the gist of what most people are saying without Stu acting like Big Brother all over the place.
To quantify my last post, I should point out that the week before last Stu made 400-plus postings on PN (by comparison this week – at 280 posts to date – appears to be a quiet week).
I pointed out last week, during the debate on the Muslims found guilty of inciting homophobia, that – assuming he is on PN non-stop 12 hours a day, 7 days a week – STU IS POSTING AT AN AVERAGE RATE OF ONCE EVERY 12 MINUTES!
I questioned how PN can be considered an open and impartial site and its forums representative of a cross-section of its visitors views when one person is seen to be hogging the debate so disproportionately, and when that person’s apparent agenda is to instill a left-wing PC bias at every opportunity, essentially serving to stymie all opposing viewpoints?
Can someone please explain to me how on earth can this be considered fair and reasonable behaviour in an open forum?
@ Samuel, how many debates have you hijacked with your ridiculous world view? – you are a hypocrite through and through and you have as good as admitted that you are just here to troll and laugh at the people you bait, saddo!!!!
You are the resident bully boy, so don’t come over as being all innocent and a pillar of humanity – you are not!
At least when I question a comment its based on facts and not on personal attacks – which is your usual MO
I think you miss the point as usual, W6. I do not need to defend myself anymore. People seem to be making up their own minds (though no doubt you will claim yet again that I am somehow manipulating the thumb-scoring system).
I would also point out that despite both your protestations to the contrary, Stu and W6 both evidently work in concert to stamp over all dissent to the left-wing, politically correct viewpoint they espouse, while stymying and berating all other reasonable viewpoints with their usual ploys.
Where have you been all day, W6? Not on these boards, at least not this particular thread; well, until Stu snapped his fingers and you obediently came running, as per usual.
And if you will use emotive words like “hijack” to suggestI have taken over these boards, W6, then at least let’s put your claim into some perspective, shall we?
If Stu posting on PN’s forum hundreds of times every week isn’t hijacking the debate, period, then I honestly don’t know what is…
I love you too
I hear you, Stu, and the feeling might be more mutual if you would only keep your pet Dalek under lock and key and fought your own battles…
@ Samuel quite simply the reason I make comment is because I dislike you intensly, you are a horrible individual who is a bully.
I read many comments threads, but only comment on the ones that either interest me or I feel I know enough about the subject to form an opinion.
You are just here to troll as we know – get a life you idiot!
“When the attack dog resorts to bluster and random insults you know you have won the argument.”
Oh do grow up W6. You lower the tone of PN’s forums no end. Can you do us all a favour, Stu, yourself included, and muzzle him?
Does that apply to scat, and paedophiles who ay they were born that way?
He was basically a rapist nothing to do with sexual orientation or preference.
Its Keith again, Hamish, ignore his madman ramblings, his comments will be deleted soon enough. Besides, he’s probably drunk again, he only seem to come in here when he turns to alcohol.
This is proof that “gay cure” does not work and never will and that the people doing this are criminals who need to be arrested and put in prison for the harm they have cause to LGBT people. The people who have been harmed need to sue these people for the harm they have caused and sue them for all they can. This will help stop them from harming any more people.
Gay cure therapy is a con, to sell books and places on courses. And you have to wonder about the “therapist” who wants (usually) men to tell them all the things they do and fantasise about. It’s another religiously founded swindle. Shame on the adults foolish enough to fall for it, and hope for the safety of those young and vulnerable enough to have it forced on them against their will.
In many cases it is a con to sell books etc …
In other cases it is just a power trip or control measure …. or just someone being sick and devious …
Fabulous article, well written and provides remarkable contrast to that of the Comment by the Rabbi recently published on PN …
However, here Chaim demonstrates a well thought out, balanced and considered view that neither denigrates others who are different (or hold different views) to him, nor dilutes his identity …
Good to hear Chaim has come through the ordeal and is a strong and confident individual
Chaim – a big thank you for sharing your story. I can imagine it must be painful to be composing a story like this and having to replay all these awful memories.
Ever since the time of Rousseau, attitudes have changed by personal testimonies of suffering. Without those stories, the Religious Right frames the perpetrator of this cruelty as the victim. I hope a few more may have the strength to speak out – at the moment the Daily Telegraph and the Daily Mail is on a campaign to villify Patrick Strudwick who exposed this treatment 2 years ago.
However difficult it may be for more of you to speak, your actions may save lives, or stop families from being ripped apart.
Well said -
Regarding the Telegraph/ Mail villification of Patrick Strudwick I’m guessing the thrust of their argument is that going undercover to expose a quack therapist is entrapment.
As I said on the other thread, if it’s unethical to ‘entrap’ quack therapists using undercover reporters, how else do you discover the harmful therapies they prescribe when there’s no-one else in the room monitoring them?
I don’t hear moral outrage when therapists are struck off when exposed for treating lukemia with an all banana diet, in what way is this different?
Both are discredited potentially harmful therapies, purveyed by quacks with dodgy qualifications.
Precisely – it’s like one of those cowboy builders or scam artists claiming to be victimised by being entrapped by ‘Roger Cook From Central Television’! (Maybe Patrick should get his opinion about the meaning of entrapment….)
Ethically organised and well thought out covert journalistic investigation may well involve a level of subterfuge in order to demonstrate the immorality that is being exposed. That does not equate to entrapment.
Roger Cook is a great example of a journalist who has used covert methods
Another is Donal MacIntyre whose exposure of care homes and football hooliganism was superb ….
In my understanding of entrapment it is where someone breaks the law because of something the investigator initiates AND that they would not have done so if the investigator had not initiated it (In terms of policing!) … well, in Patrick’s work its clear Pilkington would have used this “therapy” on other gay people – ergo its not entrapment …
Entrapment and exposure of wrong doing are not the same thing!
“However difficult it may be for more of you to speak, your actions may save lives, or stop families from being ripped apart.”
Right on, Adrian, that’s exactly why victims of reparative therapy should speak out, and we are fortunate to have someone as articulate as Chaim relate his tortuous journey to us.
While I would like to see everyone freed from the harmful nonsense of religion, I appreciate that some strands are less malignant than others. If people want to get together for rituals and things then that’s fine, as any other hobby is. But why do we still respect “orthodox” groups for sticking unthinkingly to their orthodoxy? There’s nothing intrinsically valuable in refusing to change just for the sake of it. Religious laws SHOULD be condemned out of hand, and forced to change. While there exists a version of judaism that is not homophobic, we should extend nothing but condemnation to those versions that are.
‘… Religious laws SHOULD be condemned out of hand, and forced to change. While there exists a version of judaism that is not homophobic, we should extend nothing but condemnation to those versions that are…’
from religious point of view one would argue that the ‘version of judaism that is not homophobic’ (or any other denomination for that matter) has been watered down in order to accommodate the social attitudes changes in the society and therefore one would argue further from the same point of view that if liberal strand is allowed to exist the same courtesy should be extended to the an orthodox one.
OR, you could argue that the bigoted one is archaic and built on untenable tenets, while the “modernized” one has evolved and grown to follow man’s increased awareness of the realities of the world around him.
I would never call a morally evolved religious system “watered down” when compared to the equivalent of log thumping and human sacrifices.
you can argue whatever you like the reality is that ‘bigoted one’ is represented and supported by all main denominations in this country, including CofE’s 26 Lords Spiritual in the parliament, in addition their believes are ring fenced by Article 9 of ECHR.. the point is, unless there is strong political will (something that at the moment is absent ) to change the Status Que this kind of abuses will go on
That is very stupid to believe this whole thing was real but what can you expect from someone raised by religion, and who did not have the intelligence to think for himself, to get away from it.
i think you underestimate the complexity of the issue
The “truth” of these gay cure therapies was really not all that shocking. The shocking part was that this young man had to go through this traumatic experience and who had apparently no recourse in dealing with a “therapist” who was not licensed and is obviously guilty of sexual assault.
Actually the issue is as simple and straightforward as Car says it is (save that I would argue that it is not necessarily intelligence that is lacking, more intellectual courage): the religious establishment and their followers like to pretend there is some immense intellectual subtlety about it but there is not: you ether believe in the drivel or you don’t.
Even allowing for the fact that he (understandably) doesn’t want to talk about what happened in that room at the end, the article is frustratingly unclear about what this “therapy” consists of. What happens? What so-called classes or exercises are they given? I’m still left in the dark.
Reparative can work, I’m sue that given time and a willingness on the part of the sadly afflicted person, it CAN cure homophobia.
Possibly, but I doubt that it would cure the homophobia of someone like David Skinner, who doesn’t WANT to be cured. He not only flaunts his sad homophobic perversion on every possible and impossible occasion; he positively glorifies in it.
Yes Will the likes of Skinner and Keith seem to revel in their homophobia … its almost as if homophobia is more important to them, than the Bible (which they claim is paramount) …
Sad individuals …
“sadly afflicted person”???
Sorry, but the only sadly afflicted person here is someone that comes into a gay site to demonstrate the bigotry for attention.
Sorry, I’ve just read you post again – homoPHOBIA.
Misread that, ignore my response, and apologies Patrick… so many bloody religious extremist here, I forget there might be sarcasm :)
Simply put, you’re totally ignorant of reality. You tell me if you can ‘cure’ your heterosexuality and I’ll apologize for calling you the hypocrite that you are.
Mandatory reading for the likes of Anne Widdecombe and Lord Carey. I hope these so called “ex-gay “scam businesses can be shut down, sooner rather than later. They have no right to exist for the terrible harm they do to vulnerable people. Absolutely disgusting and appalling that they can get away with unlicenced people forcing these men and sometimes women to do such degrading things.
I hope the victims start networking and set up a petition to outlaw reparative therapy once and for all.
Because this therapy does more harm than good, it is in violation of human rights.
As long as the debate revolves around the kind of anecdotal evidence presented here, I can present people who have attended such therapy and are now happily married.
For people raised in an environment where they loathe their sexuality, it is most likely that environment, not the therapy that is responsible for the harm.
You are profoundly wrong in your opinion that therapy helps.
I suggest you read this article from the Royal College of Psychiatry with peer reviewed evidence demonstrating the danger of so-called reparative “therapy”
For me, one of (but not the only) key passages is:
“This evidence shows that although LGB people are open to seeking help with mental health problems they may be misunderstood by therapists who regard their homosexuality as the root cause of any presenting problem such as depression or anxiety. Unfortunately, therapists who behave in this way cause considerable distress. A small minority of therapists will even go so far as to attempt to change their client’s sexual orientation (Bartlett et al, 2001). This can be deeply damaging.”
I can also point to people who attended and married. Unfortunately after about 10 years their marriages broke up and they went back to being gay. All this resulted in broken marriages and wasted lives. Shocking in the extreme!
“As long as the debate revolves around the kind of anecdotal evidence presented here, I can present people who have attended such therapy and are now happily married.”
What you need is scientific evidence, not silly references that cannot be validated…. or do you need me to explain that to you too?
Absolutely, scientific evidence is the essential thing in demonstrating the danger of reparative therapy
If Greg bothered to check the references I have given him, he would see that a global literature search and some peer reviewed academic studies and other research demonstrates the danger clearly …
What does “prohibited behaviours” and “engages in anything wrong” mean? Is Chaim referring to sex? He now needs to get on with it. Being Gay certainly “expresses an orientation” and I do hope he can happily fulfil his natural desires.
Perhaps he might be a happier person if he actually relised there is no god to test him.
Exactly. he can’t get over his delusions. I admire his courage but feel sincerely sorry for him for those delusions.
It is not delusion – any more than spirituality from art or music is delusion. All seek to create a feeling of otherness and an experience beyond the description of words.
I agree that we can all experience an ineffable spirituality, and that religious art and music are some of the most beautiful of all human creativity, but doesn’t it, the spirituality, stem from normal brain activity rather than divine revelation?
That begs the question: What is the origin of the brain, etc., until we reach a point where we either believe in intelligent design (creationism) or evolution.
While it is true that having religious beliefs is a human right, religiously sponsored or not, gay cure therapy is based on the ancient, harmful and untestable proposition that homosexuality is an aberration of nature at a time in history when it has been proven that human ambisexuality is both natural and normal, not to mention harmless.
I agree with you entirely on gay cure therapyand that our brains are the product of evolution. No person can properly adopt intelligent design on the science alone. It is a religious rather than scientific concept – and one which is wholly outside religion’s area of competence.
I agree also that spirituality stems from brain activity – but how is one to stimulate it? Religion and belief in the indescribable and ineffable can bring great insight and meaning. It is a shame that it is so misused to enforce power and rules – the very opposite of the metaphysical nature of Christianity.
Given our recent history, Jews cannot afford to be anti-gay and we cannot afford to be anti-Semitic – we both suffered in the Holocaust. JONAH (Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality) should take note that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. We don’t need any ‘Final Solutions’.
Incidently some of the aversion therapy used in futile attempts to turn gay men straight is similar to the therapy used on Alex in the book and film ‘A Clockwork Orange’. It has been suggested that the book took it’s title from the saying ‘Queer as a clockwork orange’ which is a defunct term for someone who is gay and was used in the 1950′s when gays were offered therapies as an alternative to prison in the pre-legal days.
I underwent electric shock therapy in the early 1960′s for looking at guyz and dating them, my parents took me to the doctors where I used to live in Liverpool. I was sent to a hospital just outside of Liverpool, was shown male/female images and when I reacted to images of male torsos, I had an electric shock. Although my parents insisted that I be married to a female, and arranged this, I can say that the hetro marriage did not last long. Thankfully, I met a guy that loves me and it will be 32 years this November, that we will have been together. These earlier episodes in my life really have been upset me, so I can see that a Gay Cure is nonsensical and has no place in today’s liberalised society and should be banned by this Coalition Government.
That sounds like a nightmare, especially if you were isolated which I suspect you were.
Congratulations on your 32-year relationship. Wonderful.
I’m very sorry to read what you went through, but congratulations on your 32 year long relationship!! :D
Ah,religion, “the opiate of the people” and a potential lethal poison too many of its adherents who may overdose on it!
Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.
Give a man a net, he will eat for a year.
Give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Like a candle, I suppose, it can both warm and burn.
I thought the tone of this article was really self-pitying, whiny and quite frankly pathetic. It’s never really explained why having come out of the closet the author decides to willingly undergo this ‘treatment’ nor is it convincingly explained why becoming straight is so important. Did he imagine saying over coffee “oh by the way that therapy I’ve been having has finally worked” and then everyone around him just opening up with praise respecr and affection … Finally, that no legal recourse thing is quite frankly bull! Being in a room and pressurised into doing something like that is illegal under just about any western law. Especially if you throw in being afraid etc. Noting that this “treatment” was extorionate its far more likely that an out of court cash settlement was reached.
You are harsh. We all know that the discouragement we get from society is very powerful. Some suffer more than others, especially those brainwashed from an early age by religion.
Did you read the effing story you moron?
An appalling catalogue of institutionalised and denied abuse, even including the classic manipulation of ‘blaming the victim’.
I am also very saddened that this man feels he has to protest, if rather obliquely, that his being gay doesn’t mean he’s doing the forbidden thing and making love with another man. What terrible self-oppression he has learned.
Thrown out of school for being gay? Is this allowed in the UK? Should be illegal?
or is this guy from NY?
Crown Heights is/was an old Jewish, Hassidic even, neighborhood in central Brooklyn. In any event, it was a Yeshiva, a religious school, like an ashram or any other narrow and often repressive school that has a very limited, completely religious, educational goal.
This was not in the UK, but just for clarification:
It all depends on what type of school it would be in the UK. UK schools answer to the local education authority. For every student they expel or suspend they must have a legitimate reason… Schools in an area can be held legally liable for denying education to a young person and an education authority can override their decisions.
In the case of faith schools they aren’t actually allowed to discriminate by law on the basis of faith… But they do and get away with it as people accept it as normal. What many faith schools do is have a ‘quota’ of none faith based students that they accept to make sure if anyone complains they can say ”No, that’s not the reason.. Look we have these students”. And then in cases of expelling people ‘illegally’ they come up with other excuses for the reason of their explasion.
The only type of school I’m unsure about is the new one popping up; the ”free school” – You’d need to check.
RELIGION – THE ROUTE OF ALL THAT IS EVIL IN THE WORLD
Does that exclude godless communism and fascism?
Fascism is very rarely godless and communism can be good it is only when it is a false communism like soviet communism that evil comes into it.
Which fascism believed in god? And where has communism worked?
I wasn’t aware that Communism or Fascism was in any way a religion… Or am I missing some sneaky sarcasm?
As much as a touching, honest account this is and it made me sick to read about what he had to go through, in relation to the headline, sadly, I’m hardly ‘shocked’ about this. More it confirmed what we were all thinking, really.
It would be interesting to know how may people go thru “gay cures” who come from these kind of restircted religious families.
Being brought up in a strict Jewish family, sent to a Jewish school (personally I can’t see the logic of what religion has to do with being taught Eng, French, chemistry etc) then being stuck in a tightly knit Jewish community isn’t going to give a child a broad perspective of life and society in 2012. I’d been totally srewed up.
It’s not so much as “unhappy” gays wanting to change but “unhappy” parents and peers wanting their children to change.
I certainly think these “cures” should be banned escpecially for young peole. The only problem is as soon as you ban anything it goes underground.
What do religious schools teach pupils about homosexuality? They are totally grey area to me. You can’t trust parents to be the best people to deal with homosexuality espcially if they are extreme religious nuts.
So sad he had such a horrible experience to try and fit with what bigots want.
The only way we’re going to beat these fools is by being strong and yes I know that there are those who will find this hard.
Thankfully I’m not part Christianity or any other ‘main’ stream religion. I’m pagan and in paganism we except people for who they are. Though I am sure we have our own fair share of bigots hidden away. But that is what our belief is meant to be.
This is frightening reading. Torah declaration sounds like something used in the concentration camps of the second world war.
It is disgusting. We are born this way, and is about time society accepted it.
There is NO CURE for homosexuality, because it is part of human nature, the diversity of life.
The suffering, humiliation and abuse is even more appalling, yet religions of all dominations are allowed to get way with anything that pleases them and not the law.
I am gay and would not change it for anything in the world. Never been ashamed of who I am and My family had to accept it or else.
We must be brave, honest, true to one’s self, then maybe we will able to live peacefully with ourselves and society.
Geeeeeeez and everyone bitches about Islam and Christianity being behind the times!
Religious organizations, like the religions that run them, deal in myth and intentional ignorance not fact and proof.
Of course its false. Why they let these charlatans exist is beyond me. Personall;y I think the ones that are QUEER are the “so called” straights!
Why does one of the biggest PRIDE Festivals in the World take place in Israel?
‘Cos not all Israelis are religious
Because many people in Israel are either gay themselves or LGBT supportive …
Not everyone is ultra orthodox in their views in Israel – man have no religion
Fundamentalist religion is a choice, and those chosing it need reparative therapy
Psychological therapy is available for those who need it …
כדי העצמי אשר לך, להיות אמיתי. אז אתה לא יכול להיות שקר לאדם אחר
Sounds like something Socrates might have said :)
Gay men are probably the best advocates for a post-religious, humanistic world, as we have experienced first hand this clash between who we are and what religion expects of us. This interface in this age of reason can only have religion coming out a lowly second as the regressive, unenvolved, damaging institutions that they fundamentally are. Although I must salute Cahaim Levin for disclosing his experiences, he is still living his life under the strictures of the religion that has had him in its grasp since he was born. The need to belong is fundamental to the human experience, and it is entirely understandable why religion would continue to be embraced. It is just such a shame that the religion that endorses reparative therapy should continue to influence this young man’s life, as within his article he appears to reject some physical aspects of his sexuality.
What really sticks in the craw however is that this religious obsession with sex and its oppression seems to lead, almost inevitably, to true sexual perversion, whether it be the legions of Catholic priests, or in this case, the alleged reparative therapist. No wonder we are so against them when they seem to fall short of their own morality so often, and invariably, while castigating people for being who they are, carry out sexual atrocities themselves. I struggle to accept that nothing can be done with regards to the man who abused Chaim and others.
This shocking account only confirms what I have always known in myself and that is that religion, in it’s many forms, mainly orthodox and fundamental, use a persons fears of ostracizism by their family and community as a weapon against people who seen to different. Putting the onus on them to change NOT for their religion to accept. It is also obvious from this account that the religious leaders were themselves fooled by a pervert into believing that “the cure” is possible using his methods, both unproven and unregistered and illegal.
LET THE SHAME OF THIS BE ALL THEIRS.
You are a wonderful and handsome gay man and don’t let any half baked ejjeet tell you otherwise, be happy within yourself anf to hell with the rest xx
A similar thing happened to me and some of my peers in the UK. Our counsellor was based at the London arm of the ex-gay organisation True Freedom Trust and regularly sexually abused his counselees. Several people complained to Martin Hallett, the founder and director of the Trust but he refused to believe us. Eventually we were so sickened by the continued abuse we outed the counsellor on national TV. Thankfully he resigned straight away.
I’m not a big fan of outing people, but in certain situations its deffo the only path to take. Well done for having the courage to sort out your situation.
This ‘therapist’ was a sexual predator. Predators seek to find people who cannot say know and exploit them for their own sexual gratification. Gay people can be particularly vulnerable to this type of exploitation. Under DADT Lesbians and even straight women could be coerced intp have sex under threat of being accused of being homosexual. People in religious authority are well suited to identify their prey. They know which children are neglected or abused at home and will respond to extra attention. And being ‘men of God’ they are often above suspicion.
“prohibited behaviors” and “engages in anything wrong” <dude straight people have sex & so should you….
such a sad story but its parents & so on pushing young gay/lesbian kids into such treatments is basically child abuse…what a way to scare your kids for life instead of just loving them the way they are…
Yes, I agree. It is child abuse.
Gay cure therapy does not work, it harms people, and it should be outlawed.
I would regard this as spiritual, emotional and sexual abuse …
If it happened in the UK I can think of a significant number of criminal charges that could be brought legitimately …
Gay cure therapy? Are these religious people becoming bleeding heart liberals?
Back in the good old days, the Anglican church was all in favor of chemical castration. If it’s good enough for Alan Turing, it’s good enough for anybody … http://seanrobsville.blogspot.com/2012/02/alan-turing-gay-buddhist.html
In my own personal experience, I realised early on in the “healing” process that I had two options: one to lie and pretend I was healed and comit myself to a life of deception; the other to admit I could not change and live a life true to myself. I am glad that I chose the second early on before too much damage was done.
Likewise glad both our choices were to be true to ourselves …
Poor Chaim, still a slave in mental chains to a religion. Religions comforts…and cripples.
I had hoped to read that Chaim had fully awakened to realize how very sick and twisted religion, in general, is and how obscenely restrictive the religion he grew up in is.
I do hope that Chaim summons the courage to break free of the religion currently crippling him.
That is very superior. Perhaps it is you that fails to understand.
I became REALLY angry when I checked the original Hebrew and Greek of the Scriptures and found that I had been LIED to by people in church when they were homophobic. I am talking about inserting words in the translations that don’t even exist in the original languages just to help people gay bash. When several translations of an original word were possible, they chose the ones that gay bash every single time eg Gen 19:4-5 “The men of Sodom…where are the men…?” Both words for “men” are Heb enowsh which have been translated as “people” in dozens of place. eg Ex 10:7 “Let the people go” – same word. Why MUST it be “men” in Gen 19? There are many cases of this.
We need laws to enable people in these organizations to be sued and jailed for a min of 10 years, whether the person agrees to the therapy or not. These organizations will cease to exist when gays and their parents stop paying them money. – Baptist Pastor (Retired)
Thicko Jonopol says…
“harmful and untestable proposition that homosexuality is an aberration of nature at a time in history when it has been proven that human ambisexuality is both natural and normal,
If it is untestable as you claim, how are you able to say ” it has been proven natural.”
A glaring contradiction in your post. No surprise here.
Sorry. The fact that a person is gay CAN be proven during electronic shock therapy as I was. They put a wire ring on your private parts that measured temperature changes and showed you about 1000 pictures of men and 1000 pictures of women over about 10 days. When my body temperature rose when I saw the men, which is natural for me, they delivered high voltages of electricity to punish me for being gay through wires that were also attached. The whole process was automatic. It was horrific. There isn’t anything anyone can do to influence the outcome of those tests. The Dr who did it to me later admitted no one had changed their sexual orientation by that or any other method.
Isn’t it funny how such “straight” people expect a gay person to struggle with all our might against our nature but in the next breath, talk about how easily we convert others?
It is ridiculous.
Good article and thanks. I was put through electonic shock therapy by the president of the Baptist Church here in Australia. It didn’t work but it did prove medically I was born gay. A Dr from another church actually tried to chemically castrate a gay teenager. When that didn’t work, he was excommunicated, his parents put him out of their home, changed the locks and said they never wanted to see him again. That Dr was registered in Aug 2012 for doing it.