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German trans girl ‘to be institutionalised’

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  1. Onomatophile 31 Jan 2012, 10:45am

    According to the article in the newspaper TAZ they want to institutionalise her because of her being suicidal, not because of her being transgender. It doesn’t make the story any better but please don’t oversensationalise.

    1. Please see this analysis by Jane Fae – she was not suicidal when receiving the correct help for gender dysphoria:

      http://janefae.wordpress.com/2012/01/31/news-feed-11-year-old-girl-committed-to-mental-institution-for-being-transgender/

    2. she’s suicidal because she does not wish to undergo puberty…and therefore placing her in an institution, separating her from her mother who acknowldeges her gender identity and proposing to “normalise” her behaviour will help her become less suicidal how?

      I get the point…it even occurred to me when i wrote it…but sorry…this feels like hair-splitting. In the UK, a small but select group of trans children are being puberty blockers to help them cope with what, to them, is an awful period of their life: in this instance, the child is being confined to an institution apparently on the say-so of her father and a youth worker.

  2. Perplexed…did it take my comment or not? Its showing a tally of 3 comments…but i can only see two!

    jane

    1. oh…ok…now i see it! :)

  3. The only person who should be committed to a mental institution is her ignorant father!

    1. had there not been people to promote ‘corrective therapy” and bash transidentity, the father would not have been able to have her institutionalized.

    2. Psychiatry is a scam and a fraud and does not work but only destroys the lives of those who they push their pills on to make money.

  4. I have species dysphoria and feel this girl. My parents refused to allow me the surgery and gene therapy needed to grow us as the goat I truly am. I will never forgive them.

    1. Yes, a JACKASS wishing to be a goat IS “species dysphoria” – isn’t it??!!!

    2. Jen Marcus 31 Jan 2012, 2:18pm

      I think you are another ignorant person who needs to placed in a mental institution along with this girl’s father. Perhaps you can share the same room? Who knows you may start an animal farm: He’s a jackass and your goat?

    3. Staircase2 1 Feb 2012, 5:41pm

      ….what a wanker

  5. From my understanding isn’t it much more effective to start transitioning with a transgender child early on? Hormones etc? Makes it much easier in the long run.

    Tbh I can’t see this going any further thankfully.

    But there is one thing I have to say. Of course, it must be tremendously difficult to transition at any age but we do often forget one vital thing. The effect this can have on others.

    I think it’s important to realise (speaking as a gay man, not as a trans individual) that it must be heart-wrenching to watch your child want to change so much. I’m not saying we should be forgiving of the father by any means as what he plans to do is clearly going to damage Alex beyond belief but I do believe we have to weigh the full scenario and use that to ensure that other parents can accept their trans children more easily.

    1. The thing is, this father has known of his child’s transgenderism since she was ye high, and has had time to adept to the news — but clearly found himself incapable of doing so. He washed his hands clean off his wife and child for a long time, in essence allowing them the happiness to be themselves, and NOW he wants to put a stop to that?

      The Berlin Youth Office should first recommend he is looked over to see if there isn’t an underlying cause to his complaints, rather than break up a perfectly good family situation.

      1. Actually I agree.

        I just think the situation is rather sad.

    2. As someone who has completely transitioned I have to say that I got sick of people complaining “how difficult” it was for them to have to deal with the fact that I transitioned..! Yes, when someone transitions it does have and effect on others — BUT the amount of pain that “others” have to go through “watching” someone else transition is a minute fraction of the pain that the person transitioning is going through! That’s like saying that it is difficult for someone to watch a person being tortured — POOR old YOU! When you compare the hell that the person transitioning goes through to what the people in the transitioning person’s life have to deal with it is a complete JOKE!

      1. I didn’t once say that it was not extremely difficult for the transitioning person. I can’t imagine the tremendous impact on the body such a process involves.

        But personally I am of the opinion that it would be wrong not to take into account the issues such a transition has on other people. Yes, it’s terrible for the trans person, yes it’s painful and invasive and yes it takes years and perhaps us gay men will never truly understand it.

        However, I can only personally conclude that being frank, open and honest about EVERYONE’S feelings around the trans person (and gay/bi men and women) allows others to at least deal with it.

        I can’t however understand a “stuff you, this is about me only” attitude. That can’t be healthy for friends and family.

        1. It’s not a “stuff you” attitude at all – I was just pointing out the truth. Yes it IS “hard” on all the people in the transitioning person’s life, but as I pointed out, what they go through PALES in comparison! When someone transitions it is NOT a “choice” — they either transition or they die… Too bad that by choosing to live (which is the HARD road to take) that it is so “hard” on others in their life – how “selfish” of them! Would it have been easier on the others if they had chosen to die instead of transition??

        2. Alphanumeric 31 Jan 2012, 9:30pm

          well, tell you what, if you don’t want to transition, then by golly don’t. But to say that others can’t is where your overextending yourself.

          Another persons transition is none of YOUR business.

        3. Sorry Mendirin, there is only one person important in this, and that is the girl!
          That other people have a problem with it their problem, but should NEVER be made the problem of this girl.

          We have the niece of a friend who now is a blossoming girl while on puberty blockers. Yes, she is not yet getting cross sex hormones.
          We have seen her grow up from 4-5, and if you do not know her history, all you see is a normal teenage girl.

          This girl should be getting the same opportunities, and have access to puberty blockers until she is old enough to decide to start taking cross sex hormones! This father definitely is not acting in the best interest of his daughter, but just to satisfy his rigid gender expectancy…..
          Petition signed!

  6. *for* this girl.

    1. Err…. actually, do you have a desire to grow hair all over your body and live in a cave?
      Your case has all the hallmarks of troll dysphoria. Poor you, an ugly beast trapped in a human body.

  7. What century are we living in?

    This sounds Victorian.

    If you put this child on hormone blockers she probably won’t want to kill herself. She needs a gender therapist and her father needs to educate himself.

  8. This is bull sh*t! How can the non-custodial parent get away with this? The custodial parent supports her and that should be the end of it!

  9. RoughAcres 31 Jan 2012, 3:49pm

    This is barbaric. I feel sick to my stomach.

    1. Gerd Harth 31 Jan 2012, 8:48pm

      After reading this, i have to say “I am ashamed to be German”

      1. It’s not a German issue though. As far as I know children do get treated properly in Hamburg as far as I know.

  10. This is child abuse simple as that. Por girl having to tollerate such treatment.

    No civalised society could commit someone based on gender association.

    1. God help this poor girl, and may he smack the father with the emotional courage to accept her as she needs to be.

    2. I am german as well and I cannot believe this is happening here! There are so many transgender people everywhere in germany and especially Berlin. I support Alex and the mother and hope the father will be educated on this subject. Whatever his problem might be, there is no way these authorities should handle a case like that, as clearly they have no idea what to do about it.

      Note to father: Please let the girl be herself and get on with live. If you haven’t cared for the girl up until now, don’t get involved ! Let the mother and daughter be happy. There is a great community of LGBT in Berlin and she will hopefully grow up to be a happy person that feels compfortable in her own skin and is not dependent on choices you make for her…as clearly they are wrong!

  11. Her father needs to be educated and the girl needs a therapist and not an anti-gay or anti-transgender therapist (most of them are quacks!) but a therapist who understands and an expert on transgenderism.

  12. SilenceIsGolden 31 Jan 2012, 7:01pm

    Just a small thing, the TAZ is not an “online lifestyle magazine,” but first and foremost a printed daily alternative (left leaning) newspaper. It chose it’s name in direct opposition to the FAZ (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung), which the TAZ considers to be overly conservative and right leaning.

  13. That Dad has got emotional issues and is directing his anger towards ruining his daughter’s life.

    Scum.

  14. matttammar 31 Jan 2012, 9:09pm

    I am surprised that the German authorities allow this moron to have his way. The wellbeing of the minor should supersede the injudicious narrow-mindedness of the estranged father.

  15. As a transgender myself currently on transition these news not only make me disgusted and sick but also frightened and in horror. Although I discovered myself transgender late, at 24 years old, I am totally sure I wouldn’t want to be anything else than a woman and understand what this girl must be feeling. This crime her father is trying to do is comparable to that of wars crimes and crimes against humanity in the sense that it completely takes away the human dignity that is a right of everyone. I am signing the petition immediately !!

  16. Again the Germanys make headline with using their failed psychiatry now on a 11 year old trans girl. Responsible LGBT people in Germany need to contact the Citizens Commission on Human Rights to help get her free of these head hunters call psychiatrist who do harm more people than they do anything with their drugs that can kill a person. http://www.cchr.org/

    1. Beware! Scientology.

  17. I encourage all to use the change.org petition and I also found this link in English to the City of Berlin Youth Service – one can lobby the elected officials too
    http://www.berlin.de/ba-lichtenberg/politik/buergermeisterin.en.html

  18. This is copy of my email to Christina Emmerich, elected official who looks after Youth Services
    Christina

    I was saddened to read the enclosed article relating to a 11 year transsexual girl called Alex in the enclosed article:

    pink news article

    There is an accepted method of treatment for children presenting to authorities as transsexual and sending them to a mental health establishment to apply abusive and discredited reparative treatments is certainly not one of them.

    Might I suggest that whomsoever it was in your Child Welfare Unit who agreed to this course of action that they are immediately removed from any position of influence in the well-being of LGBT children and you investigate Alex’s birth father for instability and abuse. For the City of Berlin to collude with a transphobic father is not only a disgrace but a clear breach of European Human Rights of the child and her loving mother.

    Might I invite you to see this Youtube video

    1. I guess this might be a better example:

  19. If they do do this to this little girl, I hope when she is able she sues him and the agency. People are born with transsexualism much like they are born left handed, or gay. And what’s worse is this child isn’t doing anything that will negatively affect them later. However by forcing her to endure puberty instead of putting it on hold until she is of age to legally either take hormone therapy and possible surgery will mean at a later date she will have to struggle all that much more to live her life as her true self. It will mean hours of electrolysis, voice therapy and possible other medical procedures. Never mind the cost of all this but the emotional toll might kill her. No allow this child to be herself. This dad needs to get his head out of his ass and stop wishing he had a son so much and love the daughter he has.

  20. I think this is a spite attack against his ex-wife. It is a clear violation of all human rights and I hope and pray that the supreme court sees that and the terrible wrong, that is irreversible, that will be done to the child in a living hell if she is institutionalised. It is her life let her live it the way she feels comfortable with.

  21. GingerlyColors 1 Feb 2012, 6:55am

    Here we are dealing with a child who is on the verge of puberty and is just about to undergo hormonal changes that may be distressing to her. For example her voice will break and become masculine. Usually in the case of transgendered children their minds are made up by the time they are 11 years old. Hormonal treatment should be an option at that age but I would delay any gender reassignment surgery until her late teens.
    As for her father, since he has walked out on the child at a critical age in her life what gives him the right to interfere?

  22. This is an interesting turn, seeing that German authorities accepted Kim Petras’ transition at an early age.

    Kim is a pretty, vivacious young *woman* whom I hope gets her shot at stardom and a successful recording career.

    http://www.kimpetrasonline.com/

    I also completely believe this is daddy’s attempt to be a complete and utter bastard because he was raised with the attitude of boys will be boys and that’s the end of the debate.

    If by some chance the German Supreme Court agrees with dumbass Daddy, Alex can go to the European Court of Human Rights.

    1. essexgirlbecky 1 Feb 2012, 10:42am

      You do realise that post is actually illegal in UK law? You are not entitled to publish the child’s real name. It may be a moot point since it is already in the public domain, but it’s still inappropriate.

      1. essexgirlbecky 1 Feb 2012, 10:47am

        Apologies Marlene. I thought you were publishing the real identity of the child but that seems to be someone else completely

    2. Yes, I am well aware of Kimmy, she is lovely. In fact I discovered Pink News exactly from an article about Kim Petras she has on her official website.

  23. essexgirlbecky 1 Feb 2012, 10:40am

    The motives of the father are not unclear. The original article indicates a familial history of repressed transgender identity and an underlying political trope that transwomen are gay men in denial. You can read a translation of the article on http://essexgirlbekki.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/13/

  24. Just like the Americans never grow tired of paranoia , Germans never get tired of brainwashing their children.

  25. Please… please… PLEASE do not do this. We can live a happy and healthy life if you just allow us to do so. We don’t need your therapy, your psychoanalysis, your interventions. We just need to live.

    Let us live, and we’ll show you what we’re capable of, what we can contribute to society. Don’t, and you will kill us.

    1. Totally agreed Alli. When I saw the petition I couldn’t stand silent and so distributed around the Internet in some LGBT-related sites and discussion forums I frequent. Please people, do the same !

  26. Staircase2 1 Feb 2012, 5:40pm

    This is outrageous
    I cant even begin to believe that a modern country like Germany could allow such barbaric practices to be foisted on a child.
    Truly shocking…

  27. I am german as well and I cannot believe this is happening here! There are so many transgender people everywhere in germany and especially Berlin. I support Alex and the mother and hope the father will be educated on this subject. Whatever his problem might be, there is no way these authorities should handle a case like that, as clearly they have no idea what to do about it.

    Note to father: Please let the girl be herself and get on with live. If you haven’t cared for the girl up until now, don’t get involved ! Let the mother and daughter be happy. There is a great community of LGBT in Berlin and she will hopefully grow up to be a happy person that feels compfortable in her own skin and is not dependent on choices you make for her…as clearly they are wrong!

  28. It seems to me a lot of commenters on this thread are on happy gas. And obviously not very familiar with a lot of very complex legal and medical issues.

    A minor is always a minor in the eyes of the law. The only people who are legally responsible to make decisions are the parents. In this case, there is a vivid disagreement between them on the child’s wishes which has led them to divorce.

    On the other hand you have a child that demands to start hormone treatments to block puberty. Have no doubt about it, obstructing the course of nature like this is a major medical procedure with lifetime implications: among others it can lead to sterility. No court can accept that an 11-year-old may take such a decision on their own without the consent of both parents. And if the child contemplates suicide in case this highly invasive medical condition is not provided, this is obviously issues of mental stability can simply not be ruled out.

    1. Mare Van Hove 2 Feb 2012, 3:06pm

      You talk the talk, but have you ever walked the walk?

      No you haven’t.

      Please understand that refusing this girl her path is exact to pushing all gays into heterosexual marriages.

  29. Νοw I am not saying that commiting the child to an institution will necessarily be helpful. But please keep in mind that: 1) in every country of the world mental health professionals are always involved and consulted in cases of gender dysphoria 2) it is highly ironic that the trans movement wants sex changes to be recognised even without a sex-change operation because among other things they claim it amounts to forced sterilisation, when at the same time they appear so trigger-happy to prescribe sterilisation hormones to an elementary school kid.

    People, we are talking about an 11-year-old that wants to stop puberty with drugs. Have some perspective here – this may make it easier to transition later in life but it is a highly invasive, irreversible procedure.

    1. Mare Van Hove 2 Feb 2012, 3:05pm

      She will not be ‘stopping puberty’, she will delaying it and then later on deciding on a female one.

      Yes I am transgendered too, and please consider that I can do ABSOLUTELY ZERO now to get rid of the elements induced by my male puberty at her age – deep voice, big bones. I hate it and just have to live with it. If I was 11 and knew what she knows…

    2. essexgirlbecky 5 Feb 2012, 11:11am

      1. “In every country of the world mental health professionals are always involved and consulted in cases of gender dysphoria.” Really? Where’s the evidence for that outrageous assumption? The point here is that Alex has not been seen by someone with any understanding of gender dysphoria.
      2. The ‘trans movement’ has campaigned for the right to register change of gender without having to undergo compulsory sterilisation, but has never argued that transgender people should not be free to exercise the choice to undergo gender reassignment surgery if they wish to do so. That’s not the point here; Alex has chosen to delay puberty until she is able to decide for herself what interventions are right for her. Some transgender people have chosen to support her right to exercise that choice. Where’s the irony in that?
      3. Puberty blockers are not irreversible. They delay the onset of puberty but do not halt the process entirely.

    3. You don’t have the right information. An elementary age child will not be prescribed any “sterilisation” hormones (what are they supposed to be anyway?), this is medication that delays puberty and is entirely reversible. Not the same at all. Your information is wrong about this being an invasive, irreversible procedure. ‘invasive’ actually means that you intrude into a body (ie via surgery) so I am not at all sure why you quote this word here?
      There is no ‘sex change’ as you imply, a trans person has always been the gender of their gender identity (ie the opposite of their biologial gender) – gender reassignment surgery is not required to establish the target gender. It should be up to the individual whether they wish to have surgery and what kind.

  30. Tom Backhouse 2 Feb 2012, 5:29pm

    As I recall, isn’t one of the likely outcomes of delaying her puberty chemically that she may change her mind and ‘come to terms’ with her gender? The other outcome of course is that she continues to live into adulthood as a transgender individual, but considering that I think there have been cases of the former, wouldn’t this treatment satisfy both parents, at the same time as giving the poor girl a break? is that sort of treatment legal in germany?

    1. Who said she is going to change her mind ? The commonly said idea of “don’t worry, it’s just a phase” is a myth, there is no such thing as a child with a brief transexual phase that goes away, and the only case in the world I know of someone who later in life regretted his/her sex change was of David Reimer, and in this case his sex change was the idea of a crazy unscrupulous doctor, not his own.
      I am sorry if I sounded harsh, but as a transexual myself I just don’t think or feel there is a “coming to terms with our own gender” thing.

      1. I am also a trans person, and I personally know of people who weren’t sure and who played with gender roles as children. It does sometimes happen. That doesn’t mean that trans kids should be treated as if their identity doesn’t matter or as if they don’t really know themselves.
        There are also plenty of people who have to figure out what they are interested in regarding transition; some people just want hormones, or would be content with just proper legal identification.
        I think a better thing to say is, “Support them, and wait and see what they decide.”

  31. Parents can be such a pain ! so unfair on her that because of her “father” she can’t be who she wants. I say father in quotation marks as a true father supports his children. This fool it seems was there for her conception, nothing more

  32. Katrina Swales 24 Mar 2012, 1:53pm

    http://www.taz.de/Streit-um-elfjaehrige-Transexuelle/!90229/
    It happened, the appeal against it lost.

    1. a truely evil act if they did do it.

  33. wow a person can still be committed in germany for being transgendered or gay. Why wernt we told when the national socialist took control in germany again?

    1. darn, you beat me to it.

  34. So Germany’s re-opening its concentration camps? Amazing how bigots can’t change even 70 years later.

  35. I am sorry to read your racist comment on a great country! Why is it every time there is any news on Germany, people like you make associations with Hitler (who was Austrian by the way) and the holocaust. Nearly every countries history has a had bad reputation for mass murder or war crimes. Yet they do not get mentioned. This has nothing to do with the rights of LGBT and is should not be part of this discussion. Please educate yourself and find that there is a very large happy LGBT Cummunity in germany. The governors of the two largest cities in germany are openly gay and germans are very supportive. Just because one person in the authorities department is a moron does not mean that a whole country is supportive of this. Do not talk about things you know nothing about!

  36. what a waste of public money again , what about her human rights ? they are being compromised , why can’t they learn from past mistakes and leave the child be who she wants , after all she is not committing a crime here or hurting anyone .the criminals are the father and the do gooder goverment people . why don’t they get a life and move on to real crime . we employ far too many bone idol goverment idiots looking for something to do , sack them and see what they about there precious human rights then

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