Another human rights atrocity conducted in the name of God.
There is no god, we need to spread the word.
clearly its your opinion not a fact
However sincerely you believe in god, there is no evidence for your assertion.
And the onus is on Kane to prove it.
To be fair to Kane, I don’t think he was trying to prove or disprove it …
From one persons perspective the onus may be on Kane …
Whether he can (or not – and I suspect the latter) – I doubt this will alter his own perception of whether there is or is not a God … thus, in that sense the onus is not on him …
Its an interesting thing looking at other peoples ideological concepts …
The similarity in assumptions (on different things) of those who are scientifically and logically minded (and I would usually put myself in that category) against those who make assumptions based on belief/faith …
The content of the assumptions may be different but the strength of mental awareness, emotion or “belief” in them is often as strong
to prove what? i just merely suggested that lack of evidence doesn’t constitute a fact
Indeed it is Dr Robin…
Bloody numpty – its not logical to even try…
…The point is that everyone is free to believe what they want – its only powercrazed dildos like you and (in this case) the Saudi’s who even think it matters…
and there is no evidence for your assertion that i believe in god, be it sincerely or otherwise
Still a Fact though however you want to put it kane, unless of course you have proof?
We can’t really say whether there is or isn’t as it’s not possible to know.
We can say that is the concept isn’t testable then it’s not in any way relevant to… well, anything.
Actually its relevant to lots of things…
At its core, Humanism is itself very Spiritual – we need MORE spirituality in politics – not less (and notice I said ‘spirituality’ not Religion – the two are not necessarily the same thing…)
Religion is merely a vehicle for Spirituality (albeit one which often avoids the Spiritual in favour of the dogmatic and the manipulative…)
atrocity? then u are an idiot!
pathetic arguement to any debate Rashid.
a·tro·cious : extremely or shockingly wicked, cruel, or brutal
You are the idiot. Probably a religiously brainwashed drone.
This is bollocks – this has nothing to do with God – and everything to do with those people who are using God’s name in order to coerce and manipulate…
‘Proving’ the ‘non-existence’ of God will not solve these Human Rights abuses – The only way to do that is to stand up TO these Human Rights abuses and recognise that they are not God’s work (in the sense that you mean) but generated by the twisted hand of man…
PINK NEWS positive lgbt news from jamaica sort it out
A welcome editorial but still nothing concrete from the Jamaican government since the PM’s initial remarks.
The editorial would have been unthinkable a year ago. Credit where it is due
Its certainly progress in terms of what the PM announced in terms of review and arguable softening in attitudes across Jamaica and to be welcomed … not sure the article adds anything on a global perspective, although it is interesting and welcome …
Indeed it is and lets hope the LGBT community in Jamacia finally get the respect they deserve.
They don’t get it, they think it’s all a conspiracy.
Then obviously any and all members of the Saudi government who set foot outside Arabia should be seized and tried for crimes against humanity. The Saudi royal family, among the top human rights violators in the world, should be held accountable by the international GLBTA community for their crimes against our brothers and sisiters.
In September David Cameron said in the UN: ““Here at the UN, we have a responsibility to stand up against regimes that persecute their people.”
“To fail to act is to fail those who need our help.”
Six months later David Cameron visits the Saudi Royalty – Human Rights? Women’s Rights? LGBT Rights?
“Sorry, too busy selling Arms right now…”
But he is raising the issue of Human Rights in Saudi Arabia so guess thats something. How far he’ll get …. well that something else but he does need to be more forceful in his approach.
Rights of gay people versus oil and gun sales. Which do you think will motivate our government more?
I guess not actually being there we’ll have to hope but lets not write off eh?
Rid the world of religions. The world will be a much better place for it.
Believe yourself, nothing else.
Like China and communist Russia?
Rid the world of homosexuals, problem solved
In case you have not noticed – Russia is no longer communist. What hole have you been hiding in?
Rid the world of perverts, and life will be good again!
I agree, Rashid
Rid the world of dementing extreme fundamentalist religious perverts and the world would be a much better place ..
Rid the world of Roman Catholic Peadophiles and religious judeo-christian cults who kill, rape and torture under the commandment of YAWEH. After all doesn’t YAWEH command it and mindless drones who can’t think for themselves follow it.
Hence the bible calls it followers sheep!!!
Radicla, don’t you mean, rid the world of Judeo-Christian religions. I’m Wiccan, we hurt no one and judge no one, we’re a peacful faith.
Would be the answer but sadly unlikely to happen.
lol thats not very radical…
its what all religions have historically been trying to do to all other religions for a very long time (and it doesnt work….and nor should it…!)
We’ve read some Islamophobic noises re this article.
What’s happening in Saudi is NOT religion, rather cynical manipulation of it by tribal & cruel dictators propped up our politicians. While Christian Europe in the 8/9th century was burning gays at the stake, Abu Nawas wrote love poetry freely under the role of a queer Caliph (who was also at the time the highest Islamic authority).
See here: http://bit.ly/xzTp7i
Obviously times have changed. Saudi is now a cruel Monarchy that props up Wahhabism, one of the most extreme conservative & aggressive forms of Islamic faith. It is almost as bad for LGBT people there as it is in Iran.
Yet it appears the UK & many other countries giving lectures about Human Rights have no quarrel with that, as long as it pays.
Are we surprised that this form of Islam is becoming stronger over more moderate versions? Imagine if the USA would be an evangelical state ruled by Rick Santorum, would you make generalisations about Christians as a whole?
That was a thumbs up, meant to be, but got the wrong button.
Sharia Law is quite a complex set of rules regarding a wide range of laws from criminal codes to financial and family issues. Under Sharia Law in order to bring a conviction for homosexuality there either needs to be five witnesses or the suspect has to confess five times. Since homosexuality is not a spectator sport and since it is unlikely that someone is going to fess up five time then strictly speaking there should be no convictions for it!
The article states that while some sections of society can get away with it, the law is applied harshly to Shia Muslims who are often considered not to be Muslims at all and therefore are infidels. The animousity is such that Sunnis have a saying: Never accept an offer of food from a Shia because he may spit in it.
Actually its 4 independent witnesses or the person confesses four times. That indeed makes the death penalty very unusual and nearly impossible to hand down for “sodomy”.
However, if the person is said to have conducted “obscene behaviour”, which homosexuality or making advances towards another man falls under, they can be given a sentence of imprisonment and/or lashes.
Saudi Arabia as we state doesn’t have a complete codified written law, it depends a great deal on the interpretation of religious texts, like Hadith and Ayas, by clerics or Royal Decrees.
We simply do not know what happened to this person, but since he may be a Shiite he may receive corporal punishment and imprisonment. Aside from that he would suffer social ostracising, may loose his job and any later job prospects would be close to zero for life.
Thanks, I must admit I wasn’t 100% sure whether it was four or five witnesses/confessions. As for the gender of witnesses under Sharia Law I believe it take two women to give the same evidence as one man. Mohamed stated that ‘Women are the twin halves of men’ which I interpreted as saying that women are equal to men. Somehow when Sharia Law was drawn up the statement was misinterpreted as saying that women are only half of what men are. Surely that means it will take eight women to witness a homosexual act – quite an audience! Different Muslim countries have different versions of Sharia Law and some like Jordan does not criminalise homosexuality.
Christian Europe was not burning gays at the stake in the Early Middle Ages. It was pretty much indifferent to the matter until 13th/14th century onwards, and there is plenty of evidence even of gay-positive attitudes in the earlier period.
Justinian started the practise of executing gays in Europe in the 5th century because he believed it would avert natural disasters.
It was a limited phenomenon and was resisted even by the Church. And Justinian reigned in the 6th century.
Although I am a big fan of John Boswell’s, we have it from Louis Crompton that when Justinian revised the Theodosian Code in 534, he was influenced by Mosaic Law and penalized the active as well as the passive partner.
“Though Theodosius may have executed passive males as early as 390, Justinian’s Code provides the first incontestable evidence for the use of lethal punishment of sodomites in the newly Christianized Greek world.”
Also, John Malalas (491- 578) documented an extensive persecution that took place a year after Justinian’s succession, but the victims, mostly notable churchmen, died of public castration not burning. (Malalas 18.168)
Boswell discounts Malalas in favour of his central thesis that early Christianity was not “really” hostile to homosexuality, a view which I sometimes find difficult to believe.
Louis Crompton, Homosexuality & Civilization, (Harvard University Press, 2003) pages 142-144
Hypocrisy knows no bounds, but then hypocrisy is rife in the Islamic world. They have no trouble trading oil with the west while violating human rights and condemning western values Marx was right, religion IS the opiate of the people, for the most part. Why is it none of the political leaders in islamic countries condemn terrorism. The have NO respect for human life when they treat people like this. Islamic countries suppress freedom of speech and expression, subjugate women, among other things. None of their countries are democracies in any way shape or form. They’re just as hypocritical as their western trade partners.
“Imagine if the USA would be an evangelical state ruled by Rick Santorum, would you make generalisations about Christians as a whole?”
But that’s just it. In the civilized world, Rick Santorum gets nowhere and is ridiculed. In the Islamic world, religious evil is embraced greedily.
I look forward to the day when the other half of the Muslim territories are being run from Tel Aviv and Washington. It’s for your own good, as well as ours.
Well said, Gay Middle East!
‘If a person is outed by the religious police via a trail the consequences can be severe not only in terms of punishments, but lifelong ostracising by the family, the community and reduced or (to) almost no job prospects.
“The person may simply become a social outcast,” adds Hamwi, “it is a kind of a social-death or in some cases may lead to persecution by the family until the person is killed to save the so-called ‘honour’ of the family.” ‘
Horrendous… appalling …
Amnesty will surely put out a petition.
Let’s be sure to sign it.
Saudi Arabia, when your oil runs out and you have nothing else to export, don’t phone us.
Funny that Dave has not mentioned cutting ties with Saudi due to anti gay behaviour but he was happy to wave the stick at “black” countries.
It has little to do with black people and more to do with oil, money and arms.
Not all the homophobic “black” countries had ties cut either, it was dependant on wether or not they were cooperating with us (giving us everything they had).
The homophobia thing was just a decoy to keep the LGBT voters sweet while at the same time implementing plans to punish insubordination from 3rd world countries.
There will be no Western challenge to these barbarians until we get off oil.
They are peculiarly exempt from ‘Liberal Interventionism’.
Exactly right. Their oil sheiks have no problem spending time in London, Paris, New York and other major cities living high on the hog and in some cases breaking with islamic tradition and “enjoying” the company of women, if you get my drift. Hypocrisy is a double-edge sword.
What about the one who killed his paid for boyfriend. Quite nasty people
All communications (including electronic) can be seized by the government for evidence in criminal trials; previously men have been arrested for homosexuality via paltalk (a social networking site popular in the Gulf), and gay-dating sites. http://www.ilmkidunya.com
Is this going to make major headlines in this country? I think not. Cameron is too busy flogging what he can to them while our airlines are packing off brits to its shores! Time to educate our electorate to what exactly they are spending their hard earned money on and flying into – A repressive state dressed up with sunshine and skyscrapers.
Whilst I totally accept that Saudi Arabia is currently a significant trade partner of the UK and a strategic partner diplomatically in the Middle East – this should not mean that we lack consistency in how we approach human rights. If we as a nation are to engage in an ethical aid, trade and foreign relations policy whereby human rights are heralded as a primary concern of the nation – then human rights need to be equally respected in Ghana, Uganda, Jamaica, New Zealand, the UK and – yes – Saudi Arabaia.
The actions of the brutal Saudi regime is inexcusable and Cameron needs to speak out against their abuses strongly and with determination.
I appreciate there are other issues at hand (which this article in the Independent articulately discusses: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-we-play-a-risky-political-game-in-saudi-arabia-6289507.html)
The question is: Does trade come first, and do some human rights matter more than others to Cameron?
I think trade comes first be it a Tory, Labour or Liberal Democrat. I’ve not seen one western government act otherwise. If it weren’t for the fact that the global economy is in turmoil and jobs aren’t plentiful, then maybe human rights would be higher on the ladder in the pecking order of things. They’ll never be primary no matter which country we’re talking about.
I do understand the trade argument particularly in the current economic climate …
Can a price be put on human rights?
Was Cameron being honest when he said this:?
“This Government is committed to combating violence and discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in all circumstances, in this country and abroad. We will take action where we have concerns.”
When he said “all countries” did that include Saudi Arabia?
When he said “take action” did he mean it?
I appreciate the Blair government buckled and sought an end to inquiries into BAe corruption in a Saudi deal by pressurizing Lord Goldsmith …. so this is not necessarily a party political point … but Cameron has made a commitment – this is a clear test of whether he really believes in human rights or not.
I think we’ll be in for a huge disappointment on that one. Revenue, be it in good or bad economic times, always trumps human rights. Money and power always come first, sadly.
Trade comes first, it’s more important.
Stu, why are you listing NZ in with Ghana, Uganda & Jamaica? I’m pretty sure our commitment human rights is above and beyond what is currently the case in those other places.
I was trying to pick out nations that I thought had a decent respect for human rights (generally NZ and UK do, NZ more so admittedly!) as saying human rights matter both where they are rooted and where they are not
Fair enough. Thanks for replying!
As if you’d need Facebook to make a date in Saudi. Along with Catholic seminaries, it is the easiest place in the world to pick up a man. Saudi authorities don’t half flatter themselves.
So what about your hetero scum who give birth to “crack” babies,those who carry herpes, chlamydia, some even have other venereal diseases. Not moral scum, hypocritical bigot? While I’m at it, what about your hetero serial adulterers and single straight males who have multiple partners and sometimes impregnate them and move on to the next? What about the men who frequent female prostitutes, many of them married with children?
Learn to spell!!!!!
The troll is back!
Woah! Hang on a minute!
Since when did having chlamydia warrant being called a hypocrite…!?
Youre a bit of a fcvked up bunny arent you…
If it’s the law then so be. If you cant do the time, don’t do the crime. Lets hope he gets a suitable punishment.
Homosexuality is not a crime.
“Homosexuality is illegal in Saudi Arabia.”
If you believe that, dear, you’ll believe anything. That is phrase is only ‘a sound in the air’ in the kingdom.
What a stupid thing to say…how can you even think that thats appropriate? stupid bitch
How can you sit there and agree with enforcing physical pain on another human, just because that person is attracted to the same sex.
How does his sexuality inflict upon your life, if you are a christian ( which I expect you claim to be ) the you too have sinned, all have sinned against God. So I’ assuming you’ll be casting the first stne then, as your obviously sinless and are on par with the Creator?
tHESE MONSTER OF TERRORISM IN THESE COUNTRIES, MUST STOP THE ABUSES OF OF OTHERS, AND EUROPE AND THE USA, MUST TAKE MILITARY ACTION AGAINST ALL WHO COMMITS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY OF THE CITIZENS, IN ALL OF THEM , REPUBLICA DICTARORS MUST BE REPRIMANDED AND REMOVED AND HELD FOR THEIR HIGH CRIMES AGAINST THE PEOPLE, AND PEOPLES GOVERMENT AND DEMOCRACY MUST BE FORMED IN EACH COUNTRY, THE FOREIGN GOVERMENTS ESPECIALLY AFRICANS, MUST HAVE WOMEN HUMAN RIGHTS PRESIDENTS AND PRIME MINISTERS, WHO WILL NOT HARM THE CITIZENS, AND TO GET THEIR FOCUSE ON HUMANITARIAN AID, AND HELP FOR THEIR CHILDRENS LIBERTY AND SAFE FUTURES NOT IN TERRISM MILITANTS, THE WICKED MEN, IN THEIR COUNTRIES ARE ANIMALS, EXCEPT FOR THE GAY MEN THE REST ARE UNCIVILIZED CANABLES THEY MUST BE TAKEN OUT LIKE GADAFFI, YOU MUST GIVE THE PEOPLE BACK THEIR COUNTRY WITHOUT DICTATORS, AND ABUSERS, HATE CRIMES MUST NOT BE TOLERATED BY ANYONE, THE CHILDREN MUST BECOME CIVILIZED CITIZENS AND NOT TERRORISTS AN MURDERS AND RAPPEST MEN
THEY MUST TURN THIS WICKED NATION AROUND TO FAMILY ORIENTED PEOPLE AGAIN WHO CARE ABOUT ALL FAMIILES, LIVING IN PEACE HARMONY AND GOODWILL OF ONE ANOTHER, THE ENEMIES TO THAT IS BIGOTS, AND SEX CRIMES ADDICTS, ALL HEREROSEXUAL MEN, , FOCUS CONTINUASLY ON JOINING HANDS TOGETHER FORMING WOMEN SUPPORT GROUPS AND FAMILIEY SUPPORTS GROUPS AGAINST BIGOTRY AND VIOLENCE IN YOUR COMMUNITES AND DEMAND HUMAN RIGHTS OFFICIALS WHO ACT ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND EQUALITY, SEEING TO ALL THE PEOPLE NEEDS IN NEED AND STOPPING DISCRIMINATIONS,, OF WOMEN, LGBT, DISABLES, VETS, AND SENIORS AND MINORITIES, RACISM AD BIGOTY COVERS ALOT OF EVIL GROUND, IT HURTS AN VIOLATES ALMOST ALL OF SOCIETY IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, THE PARENT, THE CHILD, THE FREINDS THE CHILDREN OF FREINDS, THE GRANDCHILDREN, THEIR CHILDREN, IT, MUST BE STOPPED, HAVE YOU LOOKED OUT INTO THE WORLD AND SAID, IF IT WASNT FOR THE BIGOTS EVERY ONE ELSE WOULD GET ALONG FINE , SAFELY, FREINDLY EVERYWHERE, BECAUSE ITS TRUE, HUMAN RIGHTS TAKE IT DOWN
Back are we. You vile waste of space.
You need serious psychiatric help. You have been so brainwashed by whatever dog turd your parents were, and whichever child raping priest asisted them in turning out the likes of you.
Stinking rats like you do not deserve the oxygen you breath.
A hate ridden loser.
Now please go away and stop fouling the air.
You really are a nasty piece of work arent you…
Further proof of my theory that you can tell more about a person using the word ‘vile’ than you can about the person they intend it to be a description of…
(the same is true of people posting ‘go away’…bloody idiot)
In Islamic world no gay ever will get his way of life
it is only a matter of time before 21 century will catch up with islamic world
You too, sir are barking mad
I hope in the future gays will keep in mind the consequences of their conduct in Islamic world.
Don’t you think that the persistence of widespread same-sex love throughout the Islamic world from its earliest centuries to the modern day, despite the disapproval of homosexual acts in the Islamic legal tradition, is a powerful testament to the strength of this trait as an aspect of human sexuality?
According to Rex Wockner, as long as Arab men fulfill their family role, they are free to satisfy their homosexual desires in private.
Invasion of privacy is a human rights violation.
Just wondering how you came across this site Rashid ?
I came up with three options as to why Rashid would be here
i) He is a gay person in a Muslim state and self hates – possible
ii) He is a member of the relgiious police or a religious fundamentalist – but would he really waste the time on a western website (wouldnt they just block it in Saudi???) …. possible but maybe marginally less so …
iii) He is a troll and a freak – seems much more likely to me …
let god judge ..
I hope in future that no-one forgets the consequences of religious bigots getting power for anyone whose beliefs, lives and relationships contravene their mad taboos.
And muslims had better keep in mind the consequences of their hate mongering in the UK and elsewhere in the civilised world. If you don’t like living in the west or our way of life, go home or get out if you happen to be born in the UK, nobody is stopping you, you are free to leave. The fact that so many muslims migrate to the west is proof life isn’t so great in the middle east. The come to our country and bite the hand that feeds them as well as spreading their venom in the name of religion that they try to impose on the rest of us. I have news for you, it’s not going to work.
For fcvks sake! What is it with you and your bloody racist bollocks!?
Saudi Arabia is the world’s biggest gay porn down-loader.
Really, didn’t know that. In America, porn downloads are the highest in the republican controlled states as well as having a higher rate of straight divorce too. A definite link to oppressive regimes.
Actually – when I say ‘barking mad’ what I meant to say was ‘complete and utter tosser with no regard for thought, reason or intelligent debate’…
LOL@Kieth, thou dost protest too much. I bet you gagging for a bit of hot male cock!!!
Trolls trolling trolls who are trolling the trolls.
Self-loathing closet cases I suspect. I wonder what their families would say if they found out they were deliberately trolling gay sites?
But the report function appears to have mysteriously disappeared …
Have emailed PN to ask why
This is just wrong. No-one should be subject to this vile behaviour by choosen religious lifestyles.
Let’s hope the UK government act appropiately to get the information needed to sort this ridiculous false crime and imprisonment.
Whether partners or not we should vet countrieson human rights issues if we are to trade effectively.
I am wonder why you, homosexuals, practice censorship on this site and in the same time objecting censorship in the Islamic world? That’s not fair! That’s hypocrisy! Perhaps this is normality for gays to be hypocrites…
You, sir, are a complete tosser…
What on earth are you talking about…?!
‘Religious Police’ my arse!
…What a bunch of complete and utter wankers…
“Conviction and severity of punishments depends on the social class, religion and citizenship of the accused, whereby non-western migrant workers receive usually harsher treatment than upper class Saudi citizens.”
This is absolutely sickening; that they would not only be so stupid as to think God gives a flying fcvk what one’s sexuality is in the first place but to then to make things even worse by also adding hypocrisy by only punishing the poor and disconnected is utterly godless – godless and obscene…
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