no surprise coming from a spokesperson of the Catholic Church, you’d think they would look at cleaning their own house before lashing out at others.
I am sure they are not outspoken regarding other festivities that could “interfere” with a service…as they have them every day…
what a royal pain in the ass…
accommodation should not be given.
Catholic and other religious leaders seem to be dab hands at totally distorting the meaning of words and concepts and at revising history to suit themselves no matter how nonsensical. They figure they can always fool some of the people.
This cardinal is also involed in HIDING the endless molestation of children in his own dioceses.
But there is more to this story. His goal was to rile up further the christian right wingers who are trying to turn America into a christian version of Saudi Arabia at the next election.
If you saw the comments calling “gays being KKK” on the extremist Fox news channel blog, you would see how successful he was.
And btw many of those bloggers are all but KKK themselves. Twisted politics if ever. From the church of the endless hidden molestation of children.
I didn’t know the KKK were SERIOUSLY anti catholic . . . if they are then they cannot be all bad !
You prove the Cardinal’s point. Thank you for your honesty, which I am sure reflects the prejudices of many homosexuals.
No, the Cardinal proves the point that the leadership of the RC church is out of touch with reality, out of synch with many of its laity and irrelevant and bigoted – thats the point the Cardinal has managed to prove.
i was forced into the catholic religion from birth,then left at age 18 and still today,after all of these years,the catholic religion is false and destructive.i wish the catholic church would just go away.do you think they ever nurtured the self esteem of any gay person? no,they are in fact responsible for fueling homophobia and one of the reasons why young gay children still commit suicide in 2011.that is just one of the reasons why this religion needs to die.
Dear J “C” . Yes His Eminence does have a point ! But it is a rather small one . There are lots of reasons and people who dislike catholicism . But there is little contact between them . As for the KKK and other nationalistic organisations they have infamously cosy relationship with the catholic church .
I’m amazed at the arrogance of this person. Has every single other organisation kicked up a fuss about a parade passing by? No? Then why would it interfere specifically with what the Catholics do inside their building?
And then to compare the parade to the KKK simply for walking past the front door… astonishing.
It’s on a Sunday morning, so not many other organisations would be open.
By marching by the church, the Pride parade would have effectively stopped the main Sunday worship of this church. The main Mass each Sunday in nearly every Catholic church tends to be around 10.00 – 11.00am. Everyone knows this.
To deliberately stop the traffic and close the streets surrounding this church seems like incompetence at best and bullying at worst. No other organisation has complained as they are never really targeted in such a vile way by the extremist pro-gay rights people, now often referred to as the “gaystapo.”
51 Sundays a year is not enough, you want all 52? Maybe they should hold the parade on a Monday instead.
“Everyone” knows this …
I’m sorry I don’t know the times of church services in Chicago, Mexico City, Seattle, Auckland or Tacoma … I am aware of some of them in the UK (partly through loud bell ringing interrupting my hard earned sleep when on night shift) …
Are church goers only able to go to church if they can park right in their designated spot that they have each Sunday … are they not capable of walking a short distance from an alternative parking site?
Closing streets surely would be a local authority or police decision based on public safety … if they had made an assessment that road closures were necessary for public safety – then their advice should be heeded …
As for Gaystapo … I can see that the RC fundamentalists are trying to push Godwins law as far as they can … but then linking it to comparisons of any vile organisation they can …
Its laughable given that the gestapo were anti-gay, the KKK have supported homophobic attacks and its rich for …
… the RC church to make comparisons with the gestapo given their lack of courage in speaking out against the attrocities of the N@zi’s
How many times each year are non religious people prevented from going about their business due to road closures for religious parades, saints days etc (St Patricks day and Easter just being two simple examples)?
Largely, the RC were attacked by the KKK because leaders in the RC church took a stand and were on the right side of history (not every leader it has to be said) in endorsing racial equality …
Unfortunately, the RC church now chooses to be the instigator of offence and seek to stigmatise and demonise a minority in the most callous and inhumane way. Now the RC church are totally on the wrong side of history.
who are you john c?? a priest? you should be happy if,in fact,the parade is interfering with the catholic mass!! they cause SO much grief for gay people!!!!!!!! jerk!!
“Targeted in such a way”? By offering to put back the time of the parade 2 hours to accommodate this absurd complaint? What a skewed view of matters you have, JohnC.
In any event, I’ve never heard of a major church only having one door. Surely the congregation can get in somehow, and what’s to stop them having their mass then? When London’s Pride march went right through the West End on a Saturday none of the shops had to close, after all.
Surely they could have made the Saturday Vigil?
A basic human right as declared by the United Nations and no doubt upheld by the US Constitution is the right of public assembly, a right practiced by both the KKK and the gay rights movement even though our views differ.
Unless the parade is going to burst into the catholic churches on the route and stop the hocus-pocus, how is it going to disrupt anything? With the noise?
Well tough, just because you don’t want to hear other people having fun when you’re doing your fantasy make-believe on a Sunday morning, that doesn’t mean you can complain. Shopkeepers along the route might prefer it if their businesses could have a little less noise too, but that’s something you just have to put up with if you’re next to a main public thoroughfare. Your fantasy make-believe sessions deserve no special privilege over the activities of anyone else.
The people organising the parade aren’t complaining that passing by gaudy old buildings full of gulible idiots having a pretend cannibal feast might spoil their fun are they? Get a grip whiny old man and stop pretending you’re special.
Vile – is this immature drivel really reflective of the way gay men react to things? If so, then I feel sad for you.
The above comment reads more like an 13-year-old’s adolescent rant.
Your response is hardly mature, informed, thought provoking debate!
JohnC – perhaps you’d like to point out one inaccuracy in VP’s comment. Just one.
I have to commend the organizers for being considerate and changing the start time of the parade. The streets are public, used ans shared by all walks of life so was it really necessary to placate the Catholic Church?
If the Catholic Church didn’t want it’s worshipers to be on overwhelmed or offended by “The Parade” the Cardinal might perhaps have suggested to congregations they haul their ass our of bed a couple hour earlier and attend early service that day.
Hopefully the Catholic Church will learn form this that much though they condemn and compare us to KKK… they can’t say we are inconsiderate!after all we didn’t complain about them going to be on the street during the parade!
Why should others – the majority at that – have to “haul their ass our [sic] of bed a couple hour [sic] earlier” to accommodate an aggressive minority and its sexually explicit parade, especially on a Sunday morning in a nation that has always viewed itself as Christian?
Also, the start time was changed due the the efforts of one of the parade’s main organisers – who happens to be a parishioner at the church involved.
Yet more hysterical assumptions and prejudice by the extremists in the gay movement.
Who is sounding like a petulent adolescent now … yes, that will be JohnC
When faced with the facts that there has been negotiation … his response – inflammatory, accusatory comments – and a failure to see the idiocy, inflammatory, insensitve and inhumance way the bishop has lead his flock by seeking to perpetuate a segregation of LGBT people by demonising them as similar to the KKK
the catholic church is NOT christian.they do NOT teach the truth of jesus.i will waste no more time with a fool like you!
and christians are any different ?? get a life !
And in Illinois…
“We must have the “religious liberty” to persecute homosexuals, say Catholic bishops!
So what would a Catholic find worse? A gay pride procession, a July 12th Orange Mans’ Parade in Belfast, or the racist Ku Klux Klan marching through Chicago? At lease gay pride celebrates love and diversity while the KKK represents hate and have to hide their faces behind silly robes. As for Ornage Marches, you may wish to draw your own opinion about them.
There tends not to be much difference between these groups. As we witnessed when the Pope came to the UK last year, extremist protestants, anti-Catholics on the fascist fringes, communists, atheist fundamentalists, extremist muslims and so on all formed a mad alliance against both the Church and the pope.
Orange men would say that their parades celebrate love (they are protestants who claim to believe in the Christian God of love) and are joyous events (celebrating English and Scottish domination over Ireland); the second movement of the KKK was specifically anti-Catholic and very much like the Orange movement; whilst Pride parades claim to celebrate love, the love being celebrated is actually lust. Pride parades are also political, usually allied to the Left and tend to comprise men and women who tend towards prejudice and hatred when it comes to anyone, esp the Catholic Church, that might have a different view to theirs. People hate the truth, for it pricks our consciences.
There seems to be little difference between certain RC church leaders (and some of their ignorant bleating flock) and N@zi leaders in the early to mid twentieth century and some of their sympathizers …
Whereas there is collosal difference between a human rights group seeking humanity and fairness and the KKK or the Orange order …
Strange some of the accusations thrown at the LGBT communities by JohnC are very similar to those that were made by the KKK (and others) opposed to the civil rights movement lead by Martin Luther King Jr (who was on the right side of history then? Hmmm?)
You are just making matters worse by being offensive on this gay site.
Also, you know very well that few Catholics are happy with the way things are going in the church these days, and how RC parents are discouraging their sons from becoming priests, how difficult it is to find volunteer catechism teachers, altar servers, readers, etc.
The RC church is being torn apart from the inside, and not by liberating experiences like Pride Parades which promote the progress made in terms of Human Rights.
the love being celebrated is actually lust
Are you speaking from experience, JohnC? After all, you surely can’t be giving expression to prejudice, now can you?
I think Pride celebrates lots of things, sometimes lust, but also love. To call my love for my partner “lust” is just plain prejudice.
I went on the march to protest about the Pope having a state visit and there were a few extremists, but most people were quite sane as far as I could tell. We object to the Pope and his homophobia but also think he should be tried in the courts for his protection of pedophile priests and attempts to cover up the scandal rather than protecting vulnerable children.
I have to say I agree with all your comments …
My only hesitation over prosecuting the Pope (and believe me I can see there is a definite case to be answered) is which jurisdiction – Uk, Ireland, Netherlands, USA, Canada, Argentina, Australia etc etc – arguably all … so which takes precedence …
I particularly agree with your comment about referring to love for ones partner … yes sometimes there is lust (maybe often) but the love transcends that too
Grief, its unusual you agree with me. Been on the mulled-wine or something? :)
The jurisdiction would be where the crime is committed and after he has served his sentence he can be extradited to the next country. Although US prosecutors have been unable to extradite pedophile priests from the Vatican as its a state so they would have to arrest the Pope when he is on their soil. And I can’t see that happening anytime soon..
Where is the next Popes visit … I think someone should take a cue out of Peter Tatchells book with Mugabe and make a citizens arrest …
“Nothing optional—from homosexuality to adultery—is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.”
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
Orange Marches are often seen as flute-blowing and drum-banging triumphalism and many Catholics living in Northern Ireland see it as Protestants rubbing their noses in it.
A bit of the Dr. David Starkey treatment now:
After being deposed as King by William of Orange in 1688, James II turned to France’s Sun King, Louis XIV to help raise an army of Catholics to retake the throne. James II landed in Ireland and with his French and Irish Catholic allies intended to travel up through Ireland, cross over into Scotland and head down through England. In Ireland they were met on the banks of the River Boyne by King William III and his men and we all know the outcome.
It was said that the then Pope, Alexander VIII secretly hoped that King William III won the battle as he was concerned about King Louis XIV becoming too powerful and he would have had a say in the running of the United Kingdom had James II been restored as King.
Also significantly the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 was the last time that the British Throne was fought over on a field of battle. The reforms that William III made after 1690 lead to the Constitutional Monarchy that we live in today and has given our country stability for over 300 years, an enviable record.
I think some things need to be considered, that haven’t been clearly indicated by the arguments so far.
We don’t know what access there is to the church for those wishing to attend services. If there is one main door, close to the sidewalk along the parade route, it isn’t very nice of the parade to block or severely limit it, especially when the hours of the services are public knowledge.
Although it’s not the same, the parade would never consider going past a hospital if there was a fear of blocking the entry to the emergency department.
If, however, the parade route was along one side of the church in a way that access to the main entrance would not be blocked, then the church is raising unnecessary complaint.
I am pro-gay, and anti-church, but there has to be mutual respect and some civility if we don’t want the arguments to dissolve into playground sandfights.
I appreciate I do not have intimate knowledge of the particular church … but from what I have read in some US commentaries the biggest concern from some parisioners was that they felt it an affront to have to walk 2 or 3 blocks to church because the usual car park would be inaccessible. Now whilst there may be some particular cases (eg those with mobility problems) that might need some thought and ingenuity to solve, I wouldnt have thought that walking 2 or 3 blocks was beyond most people who choose to attend church.
Therefore, it seems to me the affrontedness of the bishop (and his bleating flock) is more to do with the parade consisting of LGBT people and their supporters than it has to with the practicalities …
I’m proud of the Parade’s organizing committee for initiating a constructive dialogue without needless and mindless name-calling.
It’s a shame that we can’t all live our lives without wanting to annoy those who disagree with us. If starting an hour later means that others can go about their activities then I’m fairly relaxed about it.
I should add that my comment relates to ordinary church goers rather than the ridiculous Minister who compared a pride march to a KKK rally. The KKK was violent, undemocratic and illegal. The campaign for gay equality, by contrast, is a peaceful, lawful, democratic activity.
Oh please, catholics can now fulfill sunday mass duties by attending the evening mass on saturday evenings, it’s been effect for decades. This is a feeble exuse by the roman cult. if it had been any other parade, there wouldn’t be such a fuss over this.
JohnC, has it ever occurred to you that there are indeed many catholic extremists too, it’s not just the domain of protestants, evangelicals, jews or muslims. Why do you label anti-catholics as fascists? A bit rich coming from a cult that subjugated native tribes in Latin America, in fact annihilated many of them, not to mention the torture and execution of Jews in Spain during the Inquisition and the burning of gay people at the stake in much of Europe, in particular in England and of course, the molestation paedophile scandal which isn’t decades old but as long as the cult has existed. The roman cult has NO moral authority to pass judgement on others and in my view is morally bankrupt given the events of the past and present.
And not a word of condemnation by the Pope and others comparing us to the KKK. This cardinal is NO christian by any stretch of the imagination and those who remain silent giving tacit support to his statement aren’t either. Pure hypocrisy.
I think the gay pride organisers should show some consideration.
Almost my entire extended family no longer go to church because of the catholic churches hostility towards gay people. Thirty years ago the pope said the future of the catholic church lay in South America. But even my Colombian friends say their generation no longer identify with the church because of the bigoted institutions attitude towards contraception and homosexuality.
No wonder the current pope has changed the tune to: the future of the catholic church lies in Africa.
Soon we’ll have nothing to be thankful for but sharia law. No sign of muslims abandoning islam because of its murderous homophobia.
what a wanker
i am glad that the gay pride parade is upsetting the catholics and i hope that the parade is especially SCANDALOUS!! LOL!|!
The man is an idiot or purposefully disingenuous. The religious right have continuously tried to conflate homosexuality with paedophilia and now they attempt to make a connection with racists/terrorists/murderers. And why? Because one parade, coincides with one service on one sunday? Or is the real reason that the world is changing and they are losing they bigoted battle against humans rights and reason?
ha ha the church likes to dish it out, but it cant take it back lol
The Catholics are the KKK, http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners, their is a group called Anonymous who wear the mask of Guy Fawkes who was a Catholic Terrorist who tried to blow up the king and his government so they could put in a Catholic King. He failed thank God and now the Terrorist group Anonymous are trying to do the same thing, over throw governments and replace it with a Catholic ruler. Anonymous wear mask like the KKK, using a Terrorist Catholic Guy Fawkes as their example for a leader. Not to mention all the child rapes the Catholic Priest have done to innocent children.
Whenever a representative of the Roman Catholic Church makes statements hostile to homosexuality (and they are endless), please bear in mind that they are following the official teachings of the Church which are clearly provided in its Catechism:
“Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered’. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”
It is as simple as that.
This is confusing, aren’t we the “mafia”?
Klingons next week?
People wouldn’t be parading through the streets in the first place if the catholics werent doing thier best to block equality.
Allegedly they were all wearing white pointy hoods and burning crosses while threatening to string-up Catholic bishops..
That’s like saying the Catholic Church “invites comparison” to the “Peoples Temple” church cult led by Jim Jones until he made most of his cult members drink poisoned cool-aid in Guyana in 1978. Same logical comparison (i.e. – no validity!).
All I see is a sizeable amount of hyperbole from the Cardinal. If the sole purpose of having a parade was to disrupt his mass he might have a point, but far more likely it’s near impossible to route any parade anywhere without passing at least one church or tabernacle unless you live in a completely secular state. He has jurisdiction on the church, he doesn’t own the street outside it unless he intends to buy it from the council or start paying rent on it. No one is invading his church with rainbow banners.
Quite frankly at any gay parade I’ve ever been to there’s usually a hardcore of fundamentalist christians lining a section of the route quoting Leviticus 18 and Deuteronomy ad-nauseam, which given it’s only a once a year event seems a bit mean spirited to me.
And given that Benny thinks we’re all intrinsically disordered/ an abomination against god and is happy to share these views with his flock, the Cardinal should think himself lucky that it didn’t even occur to us to boycott his church.
Come to think of it, I’ve never heard of a Pride Parade staring before noon (or even 1 or 2pm) on a Sunday – everywhere was partying too hard the night before to get up that early. LOL
Maybe the bars in Chicago close Saturday evenings around 9 or 10pm? [big wink]
The loathsome Catholic Church will stoop to any tactic, any smear and any bogus victimhood status it can drum up for itself. The Church of Rome’s position on homosexuality is as follows: “Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered’. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.” In short, they hate gay people and would happily see us eradicated.