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US network “will meet LGBT groups” to discuss new show’s effect on trans community

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  1. WTF??? This has been done already… “Bosom Buddies” with Tom Hanks

  2. Drag (ie men dressing up as women) has existed as a form of entertainment for centuries.

    Drag is not necessarily transphobic.

    Drag is not owned by the trans community.

    I have no idea about what this show is like but if crossdressing is now automatically deemed transphobic then say goodbye to drag queens and films such as ‘Some Like it Hot’

    I think GLAAD is over-reacting here.

    Shouldn’t they wait to see what the show is like before condemning it.

    1. Drag is about men, normally gay men dressing as over the top, outlandish characatuers of women, and not actually trying to look like women.

      This show is about two men dressing as women, and trying to pass as women, and men dressing as women is so funny isn’t it.

      Chances are this show will be so terrible it’ll get axed pretty soon anyway.

      1. ‘Men dressing as women is so funny isn’t it?’
        Well ‘Some Like It Hot’ is a hilarious film.
        Laughing at men who dress as women is not necessarily transphobic though. Surely misogyny would be a more accurate criticism to level at this show?

        1. Helen Wilson 21 Dec 2011, 6:40pm

          This program is not transphobic, its CIS (meaning not trans) sexism that is a result of CIS gendered privilege. CIS gendered people think its somehow easy to live and work as a gender other than that of ones birth sex. The reality is no CIS gendered person won never do this and no CIS gendered male would ever want to give up his male privilege to get a job. In the USA just like the UK it is always more advantageous to be male in the employment market, the whole program is based on a false premise on so many levels.

          1. “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a complaint about privilege approaches ” (Goldens Law)

            Its not real life its a comedy!

            Or is everything on TV is based in reality?

            I’m off to see if the Jupiter Mining Corporation is recruiting!

          2. I genuinely don’t understand anything of what uou said Helen :(

          3. It’s my understanding from a US website that they dress as women to get a job because they think women have it easy but then find out they were wrong. So I don’t see how it’s offensive to women.

            This has nothing to do with trans ppl because it’s about cross dressing cis gendered men, I think the suggestion that the two are related is more offensive than the actual show.

    2. A lot of people condemning the show have seen the pilot and read the scripts.
      They are not condemning this transphobic, misogynist, unfunny show on the premise alone.

    3. DJ Sheepiesheep 21 Dec 2011, 5:21pm

      When a program has a gay character, it is just that, a gay character. When the premise of the program is to poke fun at that character because they are gay, then it becomes insulting. It also reinforces latent and actual prejudice by saying it’s ok they are not valid people, they are less than us, it’s ok to ridicule them. The same goes for trans characters. The issue must be handled sensitively. If the program makers don’t, they end up causing more damage.

  3. Sensitive much?

  4. Mr. Ripley's Asscrack 21 Dec 2011, 3:29pm

    Non-story. This is the kind of American reaction that gives gay people a bad image and plays into the hands of those who claim a gay agenda for us. Men pretending to be women was the mainstay of entertainment for PoWs and Monty Python and it is just ludicrous to think that it is somehow detracting from transgendered people and their acceptance in American society – when, really, we all know that it is an american societal issue to blame. Further, I can’t believe rubbish like this would get produced in the first place…

    1. I’m sorry, but in Monty Python, it’s is NOT the act of a man dressing as a woman that is “funny”. The men dress as women because there are no women (technically) in the Monty Python troupe. They are actually playing the role of a woman. They are not playing the role of a man dressed as a woman. The same goes for Kids in the Hall (a Canadian group who regularly featured skits with the actors dressed as women).

      I’m very torn about this particular TV show. Not because I think it will be transphobic. I fear it could play to the worst stereotypes about gay men. Yes, I know the men in the show are not meant to be gay. That doesn’t stop the potential for homophobic comedy to be present. It all depends on how it’s handled.

      The film Tootsie handled it with great care, in my opinion.

  5. Honestly….just because some ticked off trannies don’t like something does not make it transphiobic (speaking as an occasionally ticked off tranny)

    1. Helen Wilson 21 Dec 2011, 8:30pm

      The fact you use the word tranny says it all really!

      1. Well given I transitioned at a young age and have been doing this for 15 years I have probably earned the privilege… I’m not sure someone who only transitioned a year ago at the age of 35 has earned the right to critisise me for using that word in that way.

        But then

        1. Helen Wilson 21 Dec 2011, 9:41pm

          You have earned the right to attach that label onto yourself only. In 15 years you should of worked that one out……

          1. nope.., still a massive ‘transphobe’ after all these years despite late-transitioning professional transsexuals telling me how I should think since I was a youngster… but when you have a life that doesn’t revolve around being trans you tend to have a more reasonable POV

          2. Paddyswurds 21 Dec 2011, 11:47pm

            @Helen Wilson…
            ….purely because I’m bored with this whole subject matter………. “In 15 years you should of worked” …. Really Helen?. “In 15 years you should have worked” would be a little less juvenile. Btw, where is the vile Theotheron today?. I’m amazed he is not here being offended by something or other……..

        2. perhaps you feel ok with using it because you dont get it thrown as abuse in the street. maybe your ok about it because you can take the label off and be accepted as cis. somehting someone who transitions later in life may well not be able to do.

          being a tranny is a fun dalliance for you, but your encouraging its use on other people who will have to live with it every day.

        3. OrtharRrith 22 Dec 2011, 11:23am

          What difference does it make WHEN someone transitioned, or what age they were? I see it time and again in comments in various places and I have to wonder what the significance is?
          Does it really matter if someone transitioned aged 17 or 60? Who’s more superior, the person who transition at aged 8 or the one who transitioned aged 45? And why? Surely we are all simply trans? Some fight it, bury the feelings and deny it until later in life, others don’t. Does that make those who transition later somehow inferior?
          When is the cut-off point for early transitioner? And is someone who transitioned at 35 and is now aged 73 always going to be inferior? After all they transitioned late!

          Can you not see how ridiculous it is? How will you feel when the transkids to come, turn round and say “my god! Look at the late transitioner! 14 when they transitioned… that’s so sad!”

  6. I’m trying very hard to understand what’s so offensive about this show and i’m failing miserably. To me it’s just funny. Like White Chicks was just funny.

    The last time i checked no comedy show focuses on making fun of only one group of people. If they poke fun at women it’s misogynistic, black/Latino/etc its racist, gays it’s homophobic, it goes on and on.

    Comedy is comedy. Some things might go too far like what Tracy Morgan did, but IMO this certainly didn’t. We need to learn to laugh at ourselves. Because otherwise we have gay gay icons like NPH being demonized for saying tranny.

  7. having watched the trailer it actually looks worth giving a go…if you like farce http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Joid6wx3Q

  8. While the program itself may have not been linked to the trans community (drag is itself not really a transgender identity for most people), this programme still might have a negative impact on us, seeing as it looks like it deals with many things that some trans people go through everyday, and makes it into “comedy”. Which could have really bad implications for us. So, I think they are taking the right course of action. And, as an actual trans person who might be affected by the potential impact of this programme, I would hope that people would consider my opinion over the opinion of all the privilege-denying cisgender people – who won’t be affected by the potential impact of this programme – telling our community to “stop being so sensitive” and “get over it”.

    1. exactly how will you be affected by it…I would really like to know?

      Have we missed the increase in transphobic violence whenever Tootsie or Some Like it Hot are repeated…..or do some people just use being trans as an excuse to moan and complain rather than getting in with their life and ignoring minor issues like this?

      Then again what do I know… I think Family Guy is hilarious

      1. Well, I got a lot of physical and verbal abuse from a ‘friend’ once over Little Britain (because I refused to understand that I’m like these characters and if I wanted to ‘go through with this’ I needed to learn that I was just a living joke and would have learn to live with the ridicule every further day of my life)
        Might be easier once you’re years along the road, maybe even passing well, but for someone who just has lost every single person they loved through coming out as trans and being at a very early stage of transitioning with not much hope to ‘pass’ as your real gender any time soon people feeling entitled to even only linking stuff from a show to your transition, even only assuming you must like it because you “do drag” in their eyes can be very harmful.
        I am assuming of course that the statement above that at least some of those who criticize have seen a preview plus I personally LOVE a good drag show.

        1. OK.

          But I still fail to see how your story relates to a US comedy show about 2 straight guys who don drag to find work.

          Drag does not belong to the trans community and it is not the trans community’s responsibility to monitor how drag is used by non-trans people.

          If this show is transphobic then point out the specific incidences of transphobia in the script. But simply because it is a show about 2 guys in drag does not make the show automatically transphobic.

          (Although I suspect there is an element of being offended just for the sake of it about this show, on the part of some people).

          1. As I’m saying I love a good drag show (or film). I’m also saying someone stated earlier that those who have seen a preview think this one is not good. And I am worried because I don’t want all that hassle at work yet again. And especially for cis straight folks it’s often hard to understand the difference between drag and trans people’s lives and this is why very often such shows result in damage to very vulnerable and isolated people

  9. Christine Beckett 22 Dec 2011, 10:16am

    Nothing new here….Tootsie, anyone?

    Will wait until I have seen it before expressing a view.

    It’s all getting a bit fundamentalist. We are expected to start shouting down something before we have even seen it, just because our “ayatollahs” tell us it is unacceptable.

    chrissie

    1. Agreed. It really is getting tragic if unaired shows are being condemned as transphobic before anyone has even seen them.

      1. Christine Beckett 22 Dec 2011, 11:06am

        Or homophobic, or course.

        I don’t do headless Chicken mode. :-)

  10. OrtharRrith 22 Dec 2011, 11:04am

    It’s not “Is this program transphobic?” it’s is the reaction of the public who have watched the program going to be transphobic based upon what they see in the show?
    The problem stems from the simple fact that whilst the show is about 2 cisgender guys crossdressing for work, your average abusive member of public isn’t likely to stop and think about the differences before having a go at a trans woman.
    O-course there won’t be an increase in abuse towards transpeople based purely upon screenings of the show, but there will be more ammunition for those who were going to abuse to throw at trans people. The Little Britian sketches didn’t increase the abuse by a great deal alone, but they did increase the abusive langauge hurled at trans people. Show’s like this have the potential to do damage, particularly in a country like America where trans people do not yet have complete equal rights and where right-wing groups try to twist the truth and spread lies to ensure it stays that way.

    1. OrtharRrith 22 Dec 2011, 11:10am

      *that should read “Of-course there won’t be an…

      This show may be a nothing, a ratings flop that gets canned so fast its stars smudge their make-up, in which case it’s hardly worth the trouble of getting upset. And of-course I may be wrong and trans abusers may go up to their victims and ask first if they are like the guys in the show…

      1. This show has nothing to do with trans people though.

        1. OrtharRrith 22 Dec 2011, 4:11pm

          I can see this has the potential to be a somewhat circular arguement!

          It’s not about what the show does or doesn’t portray, it’s about how the public perceive it.
          Most people you encounter will tell you that they’ve never met a transperson, most transpeople will correct them and say the person hasn’t knowingly met one. This means that for many people they learn about transgenderism from television, internet and film. It’s unlikely that the first time someone who encounters a transwoman after watching the show is going to stop and think to themselves “Oh! Hang on a sec!! She’s nothing like guy in Work It I watched last night! I’ll not say anything and get on with my life”, More likely instead will be some confusion and misunderstanding orginating from their not understanding the difference between the transperson before them and the cis-gender characters in the show.
          So, whilst the show has no transgender characters and nothing to do with transpeople, some viewers will not see that.

    2. Christine Beckett 22 Dec 2011, 11:11am

      The Little Britain sketches were directly taking the piss out of transwomen.

      This does not seem to do that. The characters are not transwomen. Nor are they transgender in any way, shape or form.

      It is just a piece of humourous social commentary, along the lines of Tootsie and, yes, Some Like It Hot.

      And banning something just because some folk are dumb enough to take home the wrong message from it is dangerous, narrow-minded and patronising.

      chrissie

      1. OrtharRrith 22 Dec 2011, 11:38am

        I’m not saying the show should be banned – I like to think I’m more open minded then that, particularly when I haven’t seen it myself. I’m just stating that shows need to be careful. In this day and age transpeople are more prevalent, and more active in the community at large. This means that, unlike when Tootsie was made; or Some Like It Hot, there is an increased likelyhood that something said or done in such a show will reflect onto the transpeople in the community. If – as with Little Britian – the show deliberately takes the piss, then so will it’s viewers. But the danger is there for a show that isn’t targeting transpeople but instead featuring crossdressing as a plot device, to also take the piss, even inadvertantly.
        Caution is needed to ensure such shows present the right message, even if they aren’t directly about transpeople – and this show may do that given time.

  11. damnedfilth 22 Dec 2011, 11:45am

    Get over yourselves, GLAAD, you think being long term unemplyed is inherently funny? It is called a situation comedy, making comedy out of situations.

    GLAAD should be renamed MISERY

    Now, 1+5 hmmmmmmmm

    1. GLAAD has absolutely no idea on trans issues. It had no trans board members when it wrote its policy and media guidelines, and now only has one, with a very un-typical, privileged late-transitioner background. It doesn’t listen when we try to help it improve, since, being the top gay media group it obviously knows best about the trans experiences.

      It is, in sum, a total embarrassment at times.

      But then, the trans experiences are so diverse that no single person, or group, is likely to represent all competently. As Trans Media Watch here unfortunately also demonstrates.

  12. Its the same with all these “charity drag walks”. We have one publiscised for our local hospice. Its a good cause-but they should lay off taking the piss out of trans people by organising these kind of transphobic stunts.

    1. Why is a drag walk transphobic?

      Surely you are not claiming that the trans community owns drag and gets to determine when and where it is used?

      1. Drag is not transphobic, unless it is done in a misogynist manner aimed at transsexual or transgender women. Otherwise it is just one of the many highly diverse experiences and forms of expression that are bunched for political purposes under the “trans” umbrella.

        Of course, people who wrongly claim that everyone under that umbrella are the same, or “all trannys” are then being transphobic. Just as are those who say transsexual people cannot become wholly the sex of their identity, and cissexual, or who say drag queens, or, for more examples, heterosexual cross-dressers, or men with long hair or ear suds, or short-haired or be-trousered women, are not trans – all experience prejudice associated with gender norms.

        I’m quoting the American Psychological Association’s LGBT section here, BTW.

  13. If it takes the mick like Little Brittain did….. then it should be aborted – immediately!

    That show was credited with causing problems for those who are TS…. and several local gangs though it was funny to run around posting death threats and screaming out the characters names whenever they saw this particular person.

    Luckily, it was dealt with by the police – but that was comedy – so it was all right, wasn’t it? Wasn’t it……..?

    All you freakies who think that it’s an overreaction should consider that your viewpoint may not (and actually doesn’t) match the reality…. and if one TS person is beaten up – or even killed – because of the attitudes fostered by this kind of show…. then that’s one too many!

    1. Very glad to see Little Britain’s transphobia is at last being discussed. I hope its homophobia will soon be condemned too.

      If we were privy to BBC records I’m pretty sure we would unfortunately find that Little Britain, together with the many appearances of the potter who likes wearing baby-girl dresses and thinks transsexual women are cross-dressers who go too far, are listed as creditable demonstrations of corporate commitment to transgender representation and equality.

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