Someone tell the nonce church of Rome to shut up and mind its damned business. LGBT people can and do raise families successfully. But that point isn’t even necessary, unless the men in frocks and Prada shoes want to dissolve the marriage of every infertile couple and every woman over the age of menopause – Because the simple truth is that marriage is a civil contract between consenting adults, and while it does establish kinship over offspring, offspring are not obligatory in any way.
the hate group is the family research council Founded by a george Rekers
Who turns out to be another gay in denial.
Pure and simple hatred. That’s all it is, it’s how these disgraceful people operate and they shouldn’t be trying to enforce their stone age morals on everyone else. They should mind their own business, simple.
Their “morals” don’t go back as far as the Stone Age. They’ve hijacked “morality’ and “good’ and marriage for too long now. All existed before they did, and we need to claim them back from them. And clean them up while we’re at it.
People can be good without needing the god-parrot on their shoulders, just as religious folk can be bad despite its imagined existence.
what else do you expect of a church led by the RATZInger pope who in 2009
Of course he learned his lessons well as a youth in the hitler youth corp, where his church………..
http://nobeliefs.com/xxxxs.htm (replace xxxx with the 4 letter abreviation for germany’s national socialist party, all in lower case btw)
Great reporting and research PN!
Whilst I am not surprised that the church have failed to understand how to analyse academic research and rationally critique the contents. Nor am I surprised that they did not even do a simplistic check on comments about the report to find the authors of one report have since distanced themselves from the findings (hardly making it stunning and appropriate evidence!).
However, I am very disappointed (although unfortunately not surprised) that an organisation deemed by legal organisations in the USA as a hate group are seen as appropriate organisations to “jump into bed with” for the RC church (pun intended).
The organisation is run by Paul Cameron who the US District Court in Dallas commented “Dr. Paul Cameron…has himself made misrepresentations to this Court” and that “There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron”
In a critical peer review of most of Camerons findings it was commented “that Cameron’s research “would …
… have been rejected by more prestigious scientific journals”
They found six serious errors in his methodology and research and stated “even one of these six weaknesses would be considered seriously flawed. In combination, the multiple methodological problems evident in the Cameron group’s surveys mean that their results cannot even be considered a valid description of the specific group of individuals who returned the survey questionnaire. Because the data are essentially meaningless, it is not surprising that they have been virtually ignored by the scientific community.”
The American Psychological Association dropped Cameron from its membership as far back as 1983 due to a violation of the ethical principles of psychologists and stated that the APA “formally disassociates itself from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron in his writings and public statements on sexuality.”
By rights this should disqualify the Catholic church from making any submissions at all. Their evidence is clearly not to be relied on.
Interesting the deafening silence of the RC church.
I know one MSP intends to ensure the consultation process are fully aware of the junk science used by the RC church in this matter
So 1 hate-group – the catholic church – is using made-up ‘research’ by another hatepgroup the Family Research Institute to spread homophobic hatred.
What an ironic comment.
Yes making things up is a Bad Thing dAVID, so bear that in mind.
Paul Cameron’s work has been debunked and discredited by the legitimate scientific community. The American Sociological Association as far back as 1985 adopted a resolution that stated: “Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality and lesbianism.”
The fact that the Roman cult is spreading lies and mistruths based on discredited and doctored reports by Cameron, among others, is tantamount to supporting hateful discrimination. The Roman cult should be prosecuted. This is beyond bearing false witness against one’s neighbour.
Does someone have a comprehensive file on all this to send to the consultation?
Yes it is strange that the church is willing to commit a grave sin and bear false witness with fake reports from hate groups.
I don’t have a comprehensive file but Wayne Besen of http://www.truthwinsout.com website will probably have all the information you need. He has written and researched extensively on these ex-gay ministries and is America’s foremost gay activist on ex-gay ministries and their myths that he has helped to debunk. I’m sure he has just such a file. It would invaluable information for the consultation.
I know that the campaign and some MSPs are already aware of this – but it wouldnt be a bad idea if they could get sight of a complete dossier
They’ve shot themselves in the foot for a variety of reasons. Even if they were right, marriage equality would obviously benefit the health of gay men, in fact recent research has shown that the health of gay men is 13% better in States that have marriage equality than those that don’t . But I think that is because they are less stressed because of less prejudice.
Of course, those with the least risk for HIV are lesbians. Will the church fast track marriage for them?
Absolutely Paster, I’m dying to wear a T-shirt that says. ” God loves Lesbians more than you” in front of these hate mongers. Because the bible condemns heteros and gay men, but not us. And we hardly ever get condemned. Not that I believe in these beliefs, but anything to rub their noses in it is game for me :)
“None of the conclusions in the Institute for American Values report are obviously inapplicable to same-sex marriages, an issue it does not explicitly address.”
I suggest we start with that, as it’s a red herring. How on earth a shorter lifespan of gays reduces the need of gay marriage? I might be a good example if we discussed about criminalising homosexuality, but still it has nothing to do with marriage.
Is it me or does the quoted sentence not make sense at all? Shouldn’t it say applicable rather than inapplicable?
The Institue for American Values conluded that society beneifts in 26 different ways from marriage. These 26 different benefits for society are not innaplicable to gay marriage, ie they apply to gay marriage as well as straight marriage. It’s a double negative which makes things confusing!
the shorter life span Bs came from the Amersterdam report.
they searched death notices etc and came up witth a list of 30 people who died at an age of about 45.
Not very scientific.
And how did they know who was and wasnt gay.
this wasn’t an average age that gay people live to – it was a hoax about an average age of some small number of people who died early
What else would you have expected from christian hate hate groups. In this case the evangelicals who justified slavery in America as per the bible.
When will we be able to sue these people for defamation over all this fake stuff? They can get away with it in America, but they shouldn’t be able to in the UK.
Maybe it is conspiracy to incite hatred?
The Church spokesperson concluded: “Christians should always be driven by compassion and love for their fellow human beings and as a result try to urge them away from the path they are on and encourage society away from facilitating any type of hazardous behaviour not because we DON’T care for them, but precisely because we DO.
How exactly can you do that by lying and raping kids? And STILL acting as though you have the moral high ground?
Something should be done. Their consultation responses are based on lis and should be totally discredited and discounted. They should have no say in this matter at all.
Maybe I’m wrong to be complacent on this, but I really don’t see this being a problem. The Catholic church simply doesn’t have enough influence at either Westminster or Holyrood to block marriage equality.
I think you’re right, but propaganda has to be countered as it is used to increase homophobia.
It’s more evidence that opponents in Scotland are being fed propaganda by American hate groups.
The churches need to be given more accurate information. They may be more willing to listen to someone like Warren Throckmorton, an evangelical psychiatrist who blogs extensively debunking people like Cameron, Rekers etc, than to actual gay people, as though he is probably opposed to gay marriage, he does not believe in spreading lies and false data about gay people.
There’s something quite comical about Paul Cameron.
Here he is on the Phil Donahue show:
It astounds me that the Vatican would use Cameron’s material.
What complete and utter crap, and particularly ironic that it comes only days after the American Journal of Public Health
reported that legalising same-sex marriage may create a healthier environment for gay men.
‘Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour’ (ninth commandment)
Seems the Catholic Church are quite prepared to break one of their top ten rules in order to ensure that gay people are denied equality.
Four legs good (two legs better).
All animals are equal (but some are better than others).
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour (unless it is for the self-preservation of the Church).
Please. If you are going to quote Orwell, at least get it right.
“Four legs good, two legs bad.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.”
I stand corrected on your second point, but if you are going to correct me, at least get it right.
“Four legs good, two legs better.” is indeed a commandment at the end of the book.
At least this debate has forced them out from behind the image of prim “niceness” they like to present to the world. Even behind the veneer the “niceness” is strained and awkward.
Fleck! Booze! Bum!
Clearly, there is a test of God and Faith at hand. it is equally clear, that it is NOT innocent and loving gay households, failing it miserably.
Think what entity out there WOULD wish to turn God = Love into God = hate.
Then look at the “churches” that scream how they will collapse, each time law-abiding Gay and lesbians get treated even a *tiny* bit more equally than those who came before us, only to be tortured, maimed, murdered or exiled out the running for equality.
Those days are done, and these feeble and frail “churches” are scurrying to justify the unjustifiable.
And indeed, what entity out there would condone this through lies and deceit.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that if there IS a devil, this sort of deception is exactly what the Scriptures always said to expect…
*think about it*
The terrible irony is most of these ghastly clerics are gay; they are the original evil queens. Thankfully, this paradox is not lost on lawmakers, or the courts nowadays.
most of these ghastly clerics are gay
Oh, I do hope not.
Sadly, I think you might be disappointed.
Doug can I nick that quote “They are the original evil queens”? Love it :)
Of course, it true anyway.
I always thought that civil marriages were considered invalid by Roman canon law and all heterosexual civil marriages have to be convalidated by a blessing.
If this is still the case, why do they care so much about what they consider a non entity.
Jealousy of course.
Why Father you may be onto something there.
I see NO evidence to suport the claims of the RC church on this. This is simple and blatent fear mongering
I don’t like them discriminating, but I can accept that, but what is really pretty disgusting is trying to make other religions follow and so become Roman Catholic. This is the klind of behaviour they were banned for in the past, and I think that perhaps that should happen again given the kind of attitude they are now showing. They don’t have the right to bully other churches and deny them their rights, it is completely unacceptable.
LOL, sorry but, Roman Catholic Christians, the folks who brought you the Crusades, the Inquistion, the Holocaust, and priestly child abuse…should just go away…
Cheers, Joe Mustich, CT USA
Too bad the Roman lions missed a few folks back in the day.
just if the lions munched the gonads and penis of those xtians, the job would have been done just as well.
I’m wondering if I could train a dog to eat xtian balls.
i have no doubt that Peter Thtachell will be here agreeing with them before long.
“…it is the point of view of the child” to have loving, nurturing parents however many and regardless of sex, Cardinal O’Brien.
Here in the US the Catholic church and the Mormon church have joined forces and created that most vile of hate groups The National Organization for Marriage…these two ‘religious’ organizations were also behind Prop 8 that took away the legal right of LGBTQ people to marry in Californiaby allowing the ‘voters’ to vote upon the Civil Rights of LGBTQ people, or lack thereof…despicable and truly evil machinations are continuing by both of these ‘religious’ groups…one day mankind will give up superstition, hopefully sooner rather than later…WWJD?
You need one of these there, http://www.splcenter.org/
Every hate religions must be reprimanded for evil and hate crimes, no tolerance of hate crimes and harrasment must be priority, in every country and the us, The nosy hetersesxuals must be arrested and reprimanded for not paying attention to their own marriage faillurers due to thier own violence and terrrorism and satanic accultism, No one has a right to try and get others to date people that they would choose , they have lived theirs own lives, and they must stop bothereing other people in love an thier families, every man is just a man regardless of his title or bank account , they both carry a dangerous dick, that is bothering our nations families , their own track record is horrindus and and they are dangerous, except most of the gay ones, that are one hundred percent gay men , you dont here tell of them harassing children and women, lilke gay men ans some bi sexual. men, the people in this nation had better start taking the problems and dangers of hetersexual men very seriously ,
These false accults religions are just satanic sex and hate groups thats why you have been seeing the United archbishop an dutch arcbishop arrested and in serious troupble for rapping children for decades all while carrying bibles and lying to other about how they are christians, people will say any thing that does not make them a christian, hate is not christian, terrroiersm is not christian , sex pedaphilia is not christian, wicked people are evil and dthey do things to harm others and thats all you need to no like the church of gods , they are wicked people who abuse womens rights , lgbt rights, an promote pedephilia, teach men to sexually mess with thier own children and to abuse their wives , you people had better research these people and occults, i was in one and abused, the sick creeps wanted me to have sex with old men in the ministery in all over the place areas , and tried to keep it secret for along tdime , until good people told me about these false married prophets of god
These are perverts, and satanic ministry, I grew up and was warned about these bad men who where going around saying they where god and jesus, and lord, these i found out where hidden occult names of the men who where pimps in hidden mega churches of satanic occults, they used theise names to try to talk to the women and children victums with out people nowing who they really are and what they have done are really are up to. they are a dangerous group of men posing as christian network, pimps sextrafiiking children and women thru hetersexual churches, as you see on the news regarlly the truth is comming out , these same wicked church of god abusers hate womens rights they want men to abuse and violate and mistreat women make them feel inferior, this creep i found out called god and jesus is also afiliated with the kkk klan, the mans wife later called and told me who he was before she herself divorced him , randy white of tampa florida, without walls church occult look them up
The same men using the name god , is affiliated with this group in Tampa, florida, withoud walls, occult , if you look this man up and trace who all the men he is tied into you will the kkk klan and the head of every pimp agency in churches and busisness, they are conneected to child porn, kid sexual rape , and trafficicking, you, name it, Research this dangerous people, and his connections, Pat robinson is also a wicked racest found to be tied into the hate groups network underground, who they found as big businesses brought to light, this old man is a pedehple as well, promotes women, to lure other women, in order to be with the women he an old 100 year old pedehephile tries to get the young girls to have sex with him , all the same bigots, in the daty time but doing evil in the hidden times , like ted haggard an other false prophets, these people stalk women an children for sex dangerous violent sex satraninc rituuals tied all the way into african sick twisted countries, The trinity
Check out the dealings with this name the trinity, its not just a name , its tied into an satan occult religious order and the church of god, abusers, its known by others but the people need to trace this, and you will find horrors, the man tried to explain these evils on twenty twenty , along time ago, very dangerous , and deceptive people, I have had messages from insider for a long time, When you check this false prophet ministry out in Florida tampa, without walls you will find a lot of hate groups republicans partipate there , thats part of the satanic groups, Pay attention, and start warning children and families against accultism and to research places before the join in hetersexual realmsm many hetersexual places they call churches are very wicked and satanic , a hand full have pulled away and are now human rights warriaors for humanity, more and more of them or being uncovered by the task force, for sex crimes against children and women, and even some men, have been coming fo
This is your sick demonic hippocrits that call themselves christian and nothing more than abusers of ciizens, one man told his testimony of how in the church of god , the sick twisted false pastors, told the men if they where picked by the pastor for sex they where to pretend that they where women while he raped them in their anus, and that way they would not have to own up to the practice being gay or saying it was a gay act, , this was aired by the victum himself , Pay attention , to the evil s and hippocricyh of what thise occult s do , and their mess , the other man , told how the wicked pastors brainwashed them into believing if the passtor callleed himself god, they where to allow him to come to their homes are they go to his and let him have sex with their children and them any time, this is the kind of sick perversions , in the hetersexual churches are and have been taken place, the other man told how they made him marry a women when he was a teenager and he was already gay
They told this young man to lie to the congregations about his false marriage and tell them it was a marriage by god and an was happy marrriage they chose, he said he lied to the people like the occult told him , and he was a millions dollar ministry accult on tv, and came out twenty eight years later on nationonal tv and admitted the scame and false marriage set up by church of gods abusing people and their realationships, trying to make people marry each other wether they liked each other are not , abusive religion of wicked bad satan ic men, bad boys gone wrong in schoold and sycho as men, an using the easiest form of manipulation for their own evil and wicked purposes , by calling them churches, as a cover up, for their abuse of people and children Parody must stay on top of these wicked organizations, t;urning the nations into sex addicts and cannibles an terrorist, instead of encouraging people to find safe loving relationships where they care for an respect one another, Wake up
Valium! Nurse! At least the CAPS have gone!
Don’t worry, it’s probably just Spanner!
Do you really think I could be bothered to type all that crap?
I’ll leave that to you and Stonewall.
calm down, girl. that really doesn’t help ANY cause.
Do unto others as you do unto yourself. I take it that the Catholic Church in Scotland don’t like it when Rangers fans sing sectarian songs at an Old Firm Derby, therefore the church should stop dishing out hate if they don’t like being on the receiving end of it.
Not surprising really. They don’t have any proper evidence or points at all, so this laughable ‘evidence’ is all they can fall back on.
They shouldn’t be allowed to spread lies though, and I wish someone would lay into them verbally and rip their flimsy little US hate group inspired cr@p into tiny pieces.
What a brilliant opportunity for Equality groups in Scotland to expose the Scottish Catholic Church!
I hope they will seize this opportunity, because hundreds of thousands of Scots will have heard the Church’s message and many will have accepted it.
A MASSIVE message needs now to be thrust back at the Catholic Church in Scotland. Equality groups need to go for saturation of the media in order to effectively counter the church’s claim.
I hope they are doing so, and that the Church will actually come out the loser on this one, with even more Catholics turning against it and dropping their beliefs and delusions.
Perhaps the recall of the Vatican Ambassador is appropriate as the Irish have done over the bad behaviour of the church there.
I think the UK representative to the Holy See is also our representative to Italy though ……
Just received PN and aready so many hate mails against the Catholic Church in Scotland. Don’t be alarmed, we’ve been keeping this minority down for centuries, with all sort of opportunity discrimination, low paid work if work at all, showing the door to the Americas, you what its like getting rid of a neighbour you don’t want. The Catholic Church in Scotland holds no sway over any legislation which will be passed, anyone who thinks they do must have their own reasons.
Ah don’t worry it’s just a natural response to a massive campaign of misinformation and incitement to hatred by the higher up clergy using material from listed hate groups in America.
That’s true Dougal, you see how hatred breeds hatred? If only there was more love and understanding in the Church.
Yes, my tongue was very firmly in cheek, but I do get so bored with the insignificance of the homophobia/christophobia debate, lets have a good one and have a look at Islam, with a nice cup of tea Father.
Ok, but but just stick some stamps on these here postcards to the commission first ;)
As a gay humanist and freethinker, I can assure the Scottish Roman Catholic Church’s spokesperson that secular humanists do not go around telling people “do as you please”. On the contrary, we urge people to make informed rational choices about their behaviour and relationships, based on responsibility, care for one’s own wellbeing and that of others, as well as mutual respect. The Roman Catholics’ “concern” for gay people is entirely bogus and only fuelled by a desire to eliminate homosexuality no matter how much human misery they cause in attempting to do so.
That’s a generalisation, lay Catholics are pretty liberal in my experience, look how progressive Ireland, Spain Portugal and Latin America have become. The problem appears to be the policies of the current administration in the Vatican, and the people they have made into cardinals around the world, who are sworn to obedience, and consequently getting involved in anti gay political campaigns. Sometimes contrary to their charitable status.
But, as you well know, the Catholic Church’s stance on homosexuality is enshrined in its Cathecism and the problem you identify with the Vatican is hardly likely to change in the foreseeable future.The progress made in the countries you refer to, in particular Ireland and Spain which has introduced gay marriage in the teeth of opposition from the Church, is because most people have had the sense to cock a snook at the Church’s doctrines, not just on homosexuality but on abortion,contraception and divorce, and a good thing too.
The Roman Catholic laity may indeed be more liberal, though if they were truly liberal, they would leave or distance themselves from the RC Church, wouldn’t they? Even if they didn’t embrace secular humanism (which supports gay equality), there are more genuinely liberal churches they could join,
The Scotish Catholic Church has sunk to an all time low.
I bet they sink even further.
Yes, give it time.
UNfortunately not in quicksand
I suggest we start a petition for the recall of the Vatican Ambassador, as the Irish did.
Jack, Ted says we should be sending out more postcards, here you take these, and I’ll do those.
How is this not a genetic fallacy?
Sorry I can’t see what you’re holding. Is it between your legs?
Child abuse is permissable in the Roman Catholic Church but true LOVE is a definite NO, NO.
The RCC is losing it. They will snooker themselves with their own petard. The drowning man clutching at straws.
Mixed metaphor. You can’t snooker yourself with a petard.
The Catholic church – like their Protestant double – always says how much they love you, before taking the red-hot tongs out of the fire!
They should sort out their own violent and sexual crimes before giving the rest of us their loving “assistance”.
They all love a distraction from their own sins.
They abuse/rape children – up to fairly recently kept women as slaves and killed millions of people with their views on contraception, why do people still listen to these hateful evil people.
And all that before lunch, too.
Do these people ever actually stop to THINK whether what they are saying has any basis in logic, let alone morality.
If gay relationships are typically less atble than straight ones then that is an argument FOR marriage equality, since marriage has been designed in large part to promote and increase stability – otherwise there would be much less point to it.
If gay men are less healthy, specifically because ofHIV etc. again and argument FOR marriage equality. Marriage promotes monogamy and if you are in a monogamous permanent relationship then it is actually quite hard to catch an STD.
Frankly for these people to accuse us of not living up to the standards expected of married people and using that as an excuse to deny us marriage rights, that’s much like throwing us all out of school and then condemning us for lack of education…
They can’t stop and think because they are simply doing what they are told.
Michigan must be reprimanded for its human rights violations of the lgbt families in and out of the government, the gay politicians must get invovled with the crimes against humanity that Michigan is inciting as a hate crime and abuse of individuals and trying to hide the injustice, and now that the injustice has been found out , the aclu and human rights comitions, must tack action on behalf of those families found to be violated by the michigan bigots, discriminations, the parties involved must be fired and reprimanded from the government or city council seats, for inacting the uncovered abuses, just like military action has to be taken on nigeria and uganda and other african countries commiting violent offense of their citizens out of racism ,, they kill and murder and rape without conscience, because they are animals, even without racism and actions must be taken against crimes against humanity, these monsters will not stop until you do, militaray action must be taken against them
What on earth has Michigan got to do with the Scottish marriage consultation?
Of course, it’s not just hate, but unbridled envy and jealousy, especially amongst the older dirty beasts for whom drink and gay porn is now their only solace. For them the prospect of gay marriage will mean their lives have, finally, passed them by.
I remember watching that idiot Cameron in the film Brüno, in which Sacha Baron Cohen took a complete and utter piss out of him.
The thing that really annoys me about these articles is that the gay publications never actually name the full list of people that the catholic church is quoting.
They need to start naming the people that the catholic church are referencing so they can be tackled by all activists.
“Nothing optional—from homosexuality to adultery—is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.”
― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
And here I thought lying was supposed to be a sin to them. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at their hypocrisy at this point.