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Partner of Turkish gay man shot in ‘honour killing’ to address London audience tomorrow

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  1. Stuart Neyton 8 Dec 2011, 3:06pm

    “Honour killing” is as repugnant a term as “friendly fire”. There is absolutely NOTHING honorable about it. It’s murder. Please refrain from using such terms.

    1. Of course, the reason they are referred to as “honour killings” is because the victims are perceived by those murdering them as bringing dishonour on the family/culture …

      One of the reasons for highlighting them as different to other murders is that they are notoriously difficult events to investigate for police services due to them being interfamilial or seen as cultural events, even by those who find the murder morally wrong, there is a “need” to protect those who were protecting the “honour” of the family/culture and possibly a fear of what will happen if they “dishonour” the family/culture by co-operating with police …

      Many laws and international bodies (such as Human Rights Watch) refer to the events as honour killings

      There are other terms we could also disagree with:
      Joyriding, Corrective Rape, Honour Suicide etc etc

      The important issue is not so much the label, as the aim to make the act wrong …

      A killing, abuse or violence is never cultural – it is criminal.

    2. I too loathe these terms (along with “ethnic cleansing”) but I do think PN has been scrupulous in putting it within inverted commas.

    3. jamestoronto 9 Dec 2011, 5:47pm

      I agree that the words “honour” and “killing” don’t even belong in the same sentence let alone side-by-side. Call it and treat it for what it is — nothing but cold-blooded, tribal-mentality murder. Don’t try to attach any revered cultural or religious or mythological rationale to it. It is HATE pure and simple.

      1. @jamestoronto

        I am with you in heart – I passionately believe that the phrase honour killing is offensive and particularly so to the victims …

        However, in mind – I recognise that so called “honour killings” are notoriously difficult to investigate because of a refusal of all family/cultural group members to discuss the matter with police. They close in and protect each other.

        It is key in gathering the evidence to remember the motive, no matter how offensive or gut wrenching that may be. A competant and successful lead investigator should try to get inside the mind of those perpetrating the offence to consider avenues of investigation and ensure justice. In doing so, they need to understand that the offenders believe this is a matter of “honour”. Its an obscene use of the word, but nonetheless that is their belief.

        Its also important that the prosecutors in court are able to understand the motive to present it to judge and jury.

        We need to be able to differentiate …

      2. … between the moral reality (ie that such crimes are never honourable) and the perception of those perpetrating them.

        1. jamestoronto 9 Dec 2011, 9:28pm

          We have a high-profile case here of a so-called “honour killing” of a mother and her three daughters. Their “shame” was trying to assimilate into Canadian society through dress, etc. This is the third such case in recent months involving this barbaric practice. My concern is the more the Crown bring this up in prosecuting the cases, the more it may seem an acceptable defence. It may go to motive but the crime is still there — murder.

          1. Absolutely, it should be always murder … there is no cultural justification …

            All I am trying to say is that the investigators need to understand the motive to prove the case sufficiently to lead to charges to court and the prosecutor needs to be able to convince the judge and jury and that requires the motive to be explained … otherwise something even more heinous can happen – a person guilty of a particularly reprehensible murder is found innocent …

            Its vile, but understanding the twisted motive is crucial to detection and conviction …

  2. One more reason why Turkey should be banned from EU membership and proof that deporting gay asylum seekers in the UK back to islamic countries is dangerous and life threatening. One country I wouldn’t spend one penny in let alone travel to for a cheap holiday, one of the cheapest places where many straight British tourists go unfortunately.

    1. Turkey will never join the EU. France anc Germany both have stated that they will prevent this happening.

      Then again considering that the Turkish economy continues to boom, the will within Turkey for EU accession has collapsed.

      Personally I’d have no problemw with Turkey in the EU. They are certainly more appropriate than the corrupt states of Bulgaria and Romania were.

      And press freedom and the status of women in Turkey is better than it is in Italy.

      A big benefit to Turkish EU membership would be that they would be obliged to honour EU human rights agreements.

    2. Lev, just to be clear, I’m not the same Robert who posted that gay manifesto link below. I’ll modify my name next time to avoid any confusion.

    3. @dAVID – Women rights in Turkey better than in Italy? I take it you never visited the country. The employment rate for women is HALF that of men and DROPPING. It is the only country in Europe in which fewer women than men reach Higher Education.

      http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action?load=detay&link=148272

      Also, while Romania and Bulgaria are corrupt and backward, social attitudes there are 10-20 years ahead of Turkey.

      1. I take it you’ve never been Italy then. The South of Italy is an appalling place – in terms of job opportunities; education; sexism; corruption. These problems are multiplied if you are a woman there of course.

        And Turkey has a freer press than Italy.

        These are facts. They may not fit nicely in with your ‘Turkeys is muslim and therefore evil’ narrative but it remains true.

      2. I wouldnt like to judge which is worse Turkey or Italy … but neither have an excellent record in terms of free press, corruption, womens rights, LGBT rights etc

  3. There is no honour Islam. Never has been. Never will be.

    1. Be that as it may, there is nothing in this sad story as reported that indicates the “honour” behind this murder was specifically religious rather than tribal.

  4. @Robert I’m sorry but your comments aren’t helpful. These murders happen everywhere, our group is trying to get our people to accept us just as LGBT people have done in the West. Please keep your racist views to yourself.
    http://www.rainbowctk.wordpress.com

    1. Honour killings have been reported in many nations.

      The recent Home Office report on honour based crime highlighted a 300% increase in honour based crime in the Northumbria Police area between 2010 and 2011 (whilst I am not aware of any murders, this statistic in itself is concerning).

      Countries where honour killings have been reported range from Turkey to Pakistan, Brazil to Jordan, Germany to UK, Sweden to Saudi Arabia, Canada to India …

  5. Ibrahim Can should be sent back home. He is a criminal on the run, being the partner of Ahmet Yildiz, a gay man in Istanbul.

    He should be sent back to face the consequences, unless he is not man enough to face up to the rules that he broke.

    1. Being gay is legal in Turkey.

      But you already know that.

      I suggest you take your troll brain elsewhere. I believe there’s a gaggle of christians looking to be punished somehwere. Go make their dreams come true why don’t you?+

    2. Commander Thor 8 Dec 2011, 4:09pm

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Box_Brown

      Henry should have been sent back too!

      MISQUOTATION ALERT: THIS POST CONTAINS TROLL FEED.

    3. Ibrahim Can has committed to crime in Turkey – being gay is not criminalised in Turkey

      Ibrahim Can has left Turkey because he fears being murdered as his partner was … thats where the crime is (against Ibrahim)

      The fact you condone such violence and blatant abuse of humanity speaks volumes about your integrity and honour, Neal

      I wish Ibrahim well in his appearance at SOAS tomorrow, if I was in London at the moment I would have attended as it appears both interesting and a valuable event

      1. Either report and ignore guys, or contact the Metropolitan Police to report for incitement to hatred – if they get a cocophany of responses then they are more likely to expedite action

    4. Mr. Ripley's Asscrack 8 Dec 2011, 4:19pm

      Weirdo.

    5. Even if being gay was a crime in Turkey we do not usually extradite people for crimes we do not recognise in this country.

    6. jamestoronto 8 Dec 2011, 4:56pm

      Take your medication and troll elsewhere.

    7. Why bother?

  6. Christians and Muslims are to blame for the murder and killing of gay/LGBT people around the world, http://www.thegaymanifesto.com/christians-killing-gays-and-lesbians-2000-2009/

    1. So are hindus and jews and sikhs.

      Religion is a poison that destroys everything it comes into contact with.

      1. @dAVID

        Some peoples interpretation of religion is poisonous …

        I would also point out there are some (admittedly less common) examples of honour killings (notably against homosexuals) which do not involve religion per se. The families are not religious but regard homosexuality as an affront to their family.

        But, that all said, whether the motivation is Christian, Muslim, Sikh or non-religious any honour killing has no honour and is not cultural, it is criminal

        1. All religion is divisive.

          Religion positions one’s chosen belief system as correct, and therefore its adherent’s ‘special’ before whatever sky-fairy they believe in..

          I have NEVER heard a religious leader state ‘These are our chosen beliefs, however we recognise that our beliefs should never be used to determine laws in secular democracies’.

          1. Some peoples approach to religion is not in the dogmatic position you always seek to portray it in …

            Some peoples approach to their faith is less dangerous than your rampant dogmatic anti religious venom

          2. de Villiers 9 Dec 2011, 4:09pm

            You are the one who is divisive David – trying to impose your understanding of the “right” upon all of us. You behave in way that is identical to the Pope – trying to force us to live according to your conception of the good life.

  7. Mr. Ripley's Asscrack 8 Dec 2011, 4:40pm

    What a wonderful religion Islam truly is. Such a truly enlightened and peaceful religion indeed with all the gun-totting honour that comes with it.

    I wish the world would rid itself of the cavemen superstition once and for all. That would be an excellent change.

    1. Robert in S. Kensington 8 Dec 2011, 6:35pm

      Indeed it isn’t a peaceful religioun when some of its adherents advocate the annihilation of gay people, torture and execute us because it offends their beliefs and what galls me even more is that none of their religious leaders or national political leaders condemn any of it. I see nothing great about the so called great religion of Islam as that jackass, the former President George Bush once described it after the bombing of the World Trade Center in 2001. Islam’s founder Mohammed was a paedophile to top it all, married a 9 year old girl called Aisha apparently.

      1. Robert in S. Kensington 8 Dec 2011, 6:37pm

        typographical error in the first sentence, I meant to have said “religion”.

      2. And are there not stories of exactly the same practice in the bible?

        It is easy to throw stones at something we truly do not understand, and it’s all too easy to condemn everyone who is muslim as tortuers and advocates of annihilation.

        The truth of the matter is that the vast majority of men and women are peaceful – regardless of religion. It takes a very deraged person to want to physically cause pain and strife to someone else in the name of something none of us can really say exists.

  8. The main reason Turkey should not be in the EU is that nearly all of it, bar a small area on the Western bank of the Bosphorus, is in Asia.
    And we already have enough cosmetic democracies inside, in my view.

  9. Turkey is a dump

  10. I don’t really care for anything else other than this:

    How can you murder your own son or daughter for being true to themselves?

    1. How can you murder your own son or daughter, period.

  11. Nice looking guy….is he single….i am…all the best mate….

    1. jamestoronto 9 Dec 2011, 5:52pm

      He is dead.

      1. The picture is of Ibrahim Can.

        He is not dead.

        If you’re trying to be funny, then you failed miserably. If you were trying to be serious, then you’re an idiot.

        1. It is Ahmet’s photo. The victim’s image. It says underneath it. Some respect people.

        2. jamestoronto 10 Dec 2011, 2:03pm

          The caption reads Ahmet, the victim

  12. jamestoronto 9 Dec 2011, 9:37pm

    If the father feels so justified in what he did for the “honour” of his family and tribal culture why does he not turn himself in? If this was such a “noble” act surely he believes the system will let him go. But he is on the run. Why? Because he knows he committed a criminal act — murder, nothing more, nothing less — and that he violated the norms of civilised society which views his tribalism as wrong.

    1. He’s on the run because he’s a coward. His so called honour seems to apply to others, but bit to himself.

  13. Seems to be a lot of honor killings recently, what a peaceful religion am I right?

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