I think we need to celebrate childlessness.
Only a minority of gay and lesbian peope reproduce.
I fully support anyone’[s right to reproduce if they want.
But I think the decisiom is just as valid, and just as worthy of celebration.
I have zero interest in being a parent. Ever. Reproducing does not and should not define anyone’s value as a person.
How very pompous.
Why? Do you imagine a lot of single people aren’t sick of being patronised for being childless?
I can’t see how wanting children, whether in your 40s or at any other stage, makes one less selfish, and it’s particularly disappointing to have a gay man pushing this idea.
Giving your time up to help a charity would be a more honourable way of being unselfish than reproducing, specially if it’s just seen as accessorising a lifestyle (though I suppose it’d be a little different if he’s considering adoption).
He thinks its less selfish, because he has issues with his sexuality. Poor Will. It must be so depressing to be rich, famous and have all your dreams come true. I think having children is just as selfish as not having them. Most people I speak to who have kids ask me “what will you do when you’re older”, as if kids are some kind of insurance policy for old age.
If he’s feeling broody, so to speak, then fair enough – though he’s actually not, he’s arranging his future according to a cliché I think. There are lots of people who say they “want someone to love” but it’s not exactly a wholly unselfish impulse though, is it?
As for the ‘insurance policy’ aspect, I know exactly what you mean Kyle, and it maddens me – the number of desperately neglected old people in the UK is shocking, and while some of them are single the vast majority apparently are not, it’s just that their children can’t really be bothered with them. (It’s a bit like the way people in couples say they “don’t want to die alone” – but in most cases one of you will.)
Rehab, is putting words in people’s mouth to score cheap points not shocking? It is to me – maybe I’m not cynical enough?! Perhaps he should foster a fogey to keep you both happy?! I mean, WTF? I would think he meant that he is too preoccupied with himslef and that having kids would be a distraction or would reinforce positive thoughts about himself (depression does a number on most sufferers) and no where do I read he wants someone to love or anything about an insurance policy.
Being ‘famous and rich’ equals huge amount of pressure and given how homophobic the entertainment world continues to be, being an out star must be frustrating… So don’t do a tutting number on Will – wait until he dangles his offspring from a hotel balcony, then pounce! And really, I don’t know of anyone who can’t be bothered with their parents/older family members and I hardly think I’m blessed with unusual friends… I am not a Will Young fan – just give me indie rock!
Please note, I didn’t mean at any stage to suggest that Will Young has said he wants someone to love, I was speaking generally, as I think Kyle was in the earlier post too. But it seems considerably worse to me to speculate that he might want children to distract himself from his depression, what a supremely selfish motivation that would be.
(As you appear to dislike cheap shots I’ll assume ‘Rehab’ is just carelessness, a typo.)
It’s all self self self.
Yeah, just like every straight person who has a child, they’re *obviously* so selfish.
Reproducing is biological selfishness whether people realise it or not.
He didn’t say anything about reproduction. You don’t have to reproduce to be a parent.
Will Young? Wasn’t he famous for something about 10 years ago?
Actually Yes and as he is in the middle of a sell out tour at the moment I imagine he still is. So I guess your dislike of him is personal….based a tad on envy of his fan base and earning ability! But then again maybe I am wrong….maybe you have a genuine for disliking someone you don’t know??
Wow, Jealous much?
As a Gay Dad I would just like to point out that my becoming a parent was not a selfish act. I consider it far more selfish to keep on hitting the bars/clubs and shopping mall and Travel agent spending YOUR time and YOUR money on just YOU. Being a parent is harder work than I ever imagined and even now when my son is an adult the work on supporting and loving him continues…and I wouldn’t have it any other way. So could we ease off on the judgemental attitude people its Will’s choice no more and no less valid than choosing to remain childless
But neither was having a child a selfless act on your part.
There is no moral superiority attached to being a parent.
Being childless is just as valid a choice as having children.
And it should be celebrated more.
Seeing as only a minority of gay people have children, I really don’t understand why parenthood is pushed as such a desireable thing.
Oh and spending money on clothes, holidays, bars and restaurants is not selfish.
I earn my own money. How I choose to spend it is entirely my own business, and is as valid as anyone else’s choices.
Surely if you choose to be a parent (as opposed to being an observant Catholic or otherwise unable to avoid unprotected sex), it is no more and no less selfish than spending your money as you choose as a single person?
I pity yours..
I don’t know where this hatred for Will comes from. Yes, he was a bit of an arrogant twat when I first became famous but being thrust into the spot light at a young age, who wouldn’t be. I think in recent years he has changed two fold. He seems to have found himself both professionally and personally. And as soppy and cliché as this may sound, him wanting a child of his own at some point to devote his life to and show the ways of the world to is a wonderful thing. Fair play to the guy is what I say, cut him some slack.
Usually it’s frim talentless no hopers with a large portion of jealousy.
There is something very beautiful about someone wanting to be a parent.
If he does decide to have children, I hope he considers fostering…. There is a real shortage of foster parents and many in the the LGBT community would make amazing parents.
And there is something equally beautiful about someone deciding not to add to the world’s over-population by NOT reproducing.
I quite agree, which is why fostering/adopting would be a good way to go if you want to be a parent, I think.
David I don’t think anybody here disagree’s with you on this point, I certainly don’t. As I stated in an earlier comment ‘ its Will’s choice no more and no less valid than choosing to remain childless’.
I have family, who by choice have no kids…. that’s great because its what THEY wanted. But here we have a man who wants kids..either adopted, fostered or by other means. There are thousands of kids out there who need to be cared for and loved and WE as a community have fought HARD for that right to be extended to members of the LGBTIQ. YOUR choice is just as valid as Will’s no more and no less
Well said, Shane. The important thing in my opinion is that people decide themselves whether to have or not have children and don’t feel pressured either way.
Yes, dAVID, both decisions are equally valid. But, while you may have met people who gave off an aura of feeling superior just because they had children, I’ve met more people giving off that aura because they DON’T have children.
Everyone should just decide for themselves; we should value their decision whatever it might be; and people who do/don’t have children shouldn’t try to make people who’ve decided the opposite way feel bad or inferior.
But, while you may have met people who gave off an aura of feeling superior just because they had children, I’ve met more people giving off that aura because they DON’T have children.
This is absolutely true. I plan on remaining childless, so I’m definitely not trying to score points for parents here, but have any of you guys ever checked out one of those “Childfree” message boards?
The amount of bile and hatred in them is absolutely staggering. Seriously, it is absolutely shocking. Not to mention the obscene levels of misogyny, too (society naturally blames all child/breeding-related problems on women, so it’s only natural that these nutters take it a step further).
On the other hand, if you check out parenting boards, the worst you get is some non-hateful, holier-than-thou ignorance. It’s annoying, but we should just ignore them.
If we get all militaristic and start denouncing parenthood as the single greatest contributor to worldwide evil, not to mention the fall of human civilisation, then we’re going to end up looking like the real assholes (and we will be). Not to mention totally bonkers. Let’s keep it relaxed and leave the judgementalism to the froth-mouthed haters. After all, I’m sure most of us have dear friends who are parents or plan to have children (and the inverse is true for parents).
Seconded Shame, very well put. As a Gay dad meself I know how great having my son is. Everybody has a choice and it should be mocked either way.
All I know is that I dont want sticky little fingermarks all over my art collection!
I have an adopted son. Having an adopted son or daughter does not make one stylish. It requires great patience, fortitude and selflessness.
Children are not taken away from their parents and put up for adoption unless something has gone badly wrong in their lives and in their family. All children placed for adoption will have a high level of need, having been abused, neglected or worse. Parenting such a child can be indescribably rewarding but is harder than anyone can be express. It is as hard as anyone could possibly imagine and worse by a factor of ten.
To take on such a responsibility is a wonderful thing. It does not go together, however, with being stylish.
I don’t think he’s saying that having children will make him stylish. It seems to be a pretty modern thing that adults these days are rebelling against the idea that parenthood heralds the end of “youthful” fun – that old notion that one must become boring, dowdy, and submit to a life of thankless drudgery to become a parent.
Personally, I think that’s an incredibly healthy way to look at things. Having children is such a strong biological desire for many people out there. Often, you’ll have people who go into parenthood with a misconcieved sense of dread regarding all that they believe society expects of them from then on.
To reject these falsehoods and realise that one can still live a life of personal fulfilment and personal growth – including all the little things that make people happy, like “having fun” or “being stylish” – fosters a positive mindset. It creates a state of mind where children won’t be subconsciously resented for being a burden. On top of that, children will have a happier and more positive upbringing through being raised by parents with a positive outlook, and by having a parent whose entire world doesn’t revolve around them, they probably won’t turn out too selfish or spoiled, either.
I don’t plan on raising children, but I just wanted to put my thoughts out there after finding this delightful blog the other week, chronicling the exploits of a self-effacingly named “hipster mom”. I just found the whole thing fascinating: a parenting blog where the author identifies as an individual adult with personal tastes and desires as much as she does as a parent! It made for a pretty entertaining read, and her kids seem very happy, creative and well-disciplined, too. Not to mention the fact that she’s open-minded, including being gay and trans friendly.
In retrospect, perhaps Will wasn’t talking about this sort of thing… Parents like this don’t consider themselves “selfless”, and make all the better parents for it!
Once one has a child, the prospect of going out to the theatre, restaurants, parties all reduces to a measure close to zero. Parents might not consider themselves to be ‘selfless’ but in relation to looking after an adopted child who has particular needs, selflessness is certainly what is required.
For most of us it is, nevertheless, a choice, and not one without some personal benefits, surely?
I would hope that there are benefits. It is tremendously rewarding. What is required, however, is to show a child love and patience for a considerable time when that child is unable to show any in return.
Young children who have been abused or neglected feel that they have to protect themselves from further hurt and harm. They do this by not wanting to show any love or affection towards any adults – in order to insulate themselves from what they see will be the same rejection as they have had from their birth parents and/or their foster parents (who will have rejected them in allowing them to be taken away to their adopted parents).
They will then try to confirm for themselves that the adopted parents do not love them by pushing at the boundaries – expecting the adopted parents will, like their previous carers, send them away. If they are extremely badly behaved, they think, they might even have the chance of being returned back to their foster or natural parents.
That means that great patience and selflessness is required to love a child who themselves are incapable of loving their adopted parents; to see the behaviour and its causes rather than just a naughty child; to know that when a child shouts that you are not their real parents and they want to be dead or when they try to self-harm to get any type of attention negative or otherwise; or if they try deliberately to defecate in their clothes or on the floor in order to defy you to prove to themselves that you will send them away because you do not love them – all of that requires unending levels of love and patience.
If, after all that, a child can grow to love you and to settle with themselves and if, after all that, you can start to undo the serious mental damage caused to such a young and vulnerable child – that is reward beyond measure.
De Villiers, what you describe is honourable and admirable, and maybe I’m just being argumentative and a sophist; but my belief is that truly honest people will admit that, in seeking a reward or a benefit, people cannot be considered wholly selfless. Superlatively generous, wonderfully kind, maybe; but not selfless. It is an abstruse point, I admit.
When did he lose the hair?!
Not that your shallow or nothing? eh?
Best of British to anyone looking after kids. My secret hero is King Herod. No, to hell with it. I’m coming out!!
And when that day comes I’m sure he’ll make a great day and role model to his and other kids.