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Black children perform poorly at school because ‘academic success is seen as gay’

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  1. I can understand doing well at school being considered “nerdy” or “geeky” but gay? Really?

    1. Considering what a homopihobic dump Jamaica is, should be really be surprised that a culture of failure is something that would be celebrated there.

      If Jamaican culture promotes and encourages failure among its male children in this way, then is something that the Jamaican community is entirely responsible for.

      Unfortunately I suspect the Jamaican community will reject these findings, blame it all on racism or on Britain, meanwhile their young men are deliberately failing in life.

      It’s truly pathetic really.

      But also unsurprising.

    2. Well, it’s by association. Girls aspire to do well at school, as therefore do. Therefore, if a boy wants to do well, then they are seen as feminine, and/or ‘gay’.

      It’s their loss; it’s their choice and the rest of us will just move onto bigger and better things!

    3. Who bullies “nerds” and “geeks” at school? It is the macho jocks and macho bad boys. At the root of the issue is gender/sexuality and homophobia.

      It is the assertion that in order to be respected as male you must be physically imposing and assertive, aggressive, distracted by girls, desired by girls and disrespectful of them and rebellious against authority. All of these attributes are not conducive to a learning-environment. Almost all bullying jocks and bad boys of any race are usually the under-performers. It just so happens that the “bad-boy” macho thing is exaggerated in Caribbean/black communities because of having an innate lack of respect and trust in authority.

      ANYONE who is not like that is basically considered a “fag” and that includes the nerds.

    4. Exactly !! Kurt Hummel, for example, is not by far the smartest kid in McKinley High. But again, who is in that dreadful series ? All they care about is singing.

    5. It is another government trick to ensure that the kids today are dumb and stupid because if they ever got too smart they would see and know what the governments were really planning and doing to them. The world powers (world bankers) want worker ants to make them rich not thinkers who might catch on to their plans they have for them and their children. The Christians also do the same thing to keep them poor fools giving the Christian church money to pay for their sins. Christians = sins = more money for the church. Government = keep them stupid = slaves = more tax money for the government (slave masters ).

  2. Now lets hear from some bleeding heart on here that enough isn’t being done for the black community. I love reading a bit of white man guilt over my breakfast with black coffee..sorry that should say ‘dairy free’ coffee.

    1. Best post of the week. Well said.

    2. Stuart Neyton 21 Oct 2011, 3:52pm

      There was no need for racism, it wasn’t called for at all

      1. I wasn’t being racist, I was being facetious. Where exactly is there racism in my comment?

        1. Jock S. Trap 12 Nov 2011, 11:22am

          No, you were being racist.

    3. Jock S. Trap 12 Nov 2011, 11:22am

      Crazy says what now?

  3. Don’t understand, lawyers, doctors, scientists etc are now regarded as gay professions by black boys becuase these people do well academically….I thought gay people were supposed to be under achievers at school as well…not sure about this gay link idea to black boys at all …..I agree with the first post, geeky and nerdy and something else in addition for black boys but a gay link idea?

    1. It speaks volumes about the pathetic celebration of failure among males in Jamaican culture than it says about gay people or anyone else.

    2. I’ve always heard of gays stereo typically as being either being party-goers or overachievers with few cases of overlap. I’ve never heard of the gay stereotype of being underachievers

      1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:33am

        Your point being? Nothing I’d imagine..

  4. David Shepherd 21 Oct 2011, 10:58am

    This is a view of the head of the Jamaican Teachers Association expressed at a lecture in Bristol, not the result of conclusive research into the reasons for scholastic under-performance among African-Caribbean children.

    I’m truly horrified that some here accept that his claims (based on the Jamaican experience) can have relevance in the UK. So where’s the real prejudice?

    1. I think that the head of the Jamaican Teacher’s Association would have a better insight into the reasons for the failures of Afro-Caribbean males than most.

      And we ALL know what a hateful pit of bigotry Jamaica actially is,

      I fully expect Jamaican community groups will reject his opinions, out of hand. Otherwise they may actually be required to address the failures of Afro-Caribbean boys, in education.

      1. David Shepherd 21 Oct 2011, 1:42pm

        He said: “I would not be surprised if here in England the same or similar things occur’. That hardly makes for an insight.

        However, thanks for highlighting Jamaican community groups as fully expected by you to avoid addressing the failures of their children. We’re so thankful that ‘other’ parents don’t avoid these issues. Either that or you believe that, for the most part, children who are not Afro-Caribbean uniformly succeed!

        1. You do accept however that his comments about the educational failures of Jamaican boys in Jamaica is valid don’t you?

          Or are you simply going into automatic defence mode, try to shift the blame everywhere except where it should be directed – at the culture and the families which celebrate homophobia and educational failure?

          1. David Shepherd 21 Oct 2011, 11:27pm

            His comments are have specific validity in Jamaica, not elsewhere.

            You can establish a causal relationship between educational failure and homophobia without proof, especially when poverty and access to educational opportunities are more probable culprits.

    2. Rudehamster 21 Oct 2011, 7:24pm

      I taught in Hackney & Haringey for eight years and, believe me, this is commonly heard in London schools.
      Jamaican boys (and ‘Jafaican’ white boys), really do see hustle as the better alternative. The care more what their peers think of them that what a teacher, parent or authority figure suggests.
      The whole of Jamaican culture is permeated by homophobia – I can attest to that, having been seriously assaulted twice for being gay, and both times by young Jamaican guys.
      These kids would do anything to prove that aren’t gay. Just ask a gay Jamaican.

      1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:35am

        It’s all very sad, such negativity when we should be educating them. I mean that is why they are in school right?

  5. Gaga Flash Mob Response Unit 21 Oct 2011, 10:59am

    So homophobia is a serious disability and hurts people that are homophobic as well as their victims. Sound right to me.

  6. Spanner1960 21 Oct 2011, 11:10am

    What they are basically saying is they are too bloody lazy to learn and work and would rather rip people off and get money the easy way. No surprises there then.

    1. Yes, you are right, but don’t label all of us blacks in that way; there are black people in Oxford and Cambridge, Yale and Havard. They are not the bloody lazy ones.

    2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:37am

      Typical racist comment from Spanner.. way to brand all the same, idiot.

  7. So stupid, ignorant and uneducated is seen as being butch and straight…hmm! well now that they mention it.

    1. The assumption that being clever is gay is not only outrageously homophobic, but also ignorant in the extreme. I am a black girl doing A levels, and I believe that this kind of narrowminded thinking is the reason that there are very few black people doing A Levels either at this school or at my last school. I have conversed with many of them, and all they are interested in is hip hop and entertainment. I loove hip hop, but I am also conversant in politics, economy, art, etc.I still maintain, however, that this under achievement is primarily an Afro-Caribbean problem. I am Nigerian, and I can tell you that if you go to their schools and underachieve, then nobody will respect you. In charity programs, the whites that go to African schools always comment on the high level and love an drepsect that Balck Africans have for education. Many of them have big aspirations, and win scholarships to study in top institutions abroad in places such as Yale etc.

      1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:39am

        Good luck to you too Deborah!! :)

  8. I must say that it’s to often that educational groups come out with excuses as to why a certain group fails. This is by far the most dumbest. Lets go back to say that maybe those who provide these educational services fail to understand and provide a certain type of learning technique that may be needed to further educate failing students.

    As an educated Gay Black American, I’ve watched to often that black/ male (even white male) teachers seem to present a certain level of educational success with black students while often white female teachers tend to fail.

    As far as Im concerned this is just another bigot article that Pink News wants to put out. If its not gay or percieved as a group to be against gays this site almost always attempts to make articles on these topics without real proof. If you have read the gathering of theory comes from hear say.

    Maybe Jamaican students are failing due to educational disability and or poor education technique/system.

    1. or maybe its spot on. stop making excuses for them.

      1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:40am

        Exactly, well said Ben.

    2. I was wondering how long it would take someone to blame the teachers. Re: ”Lets go back to say that maybe those who provide these educational services fail to understand and provide a certain type of learning technique that may be needed to further educate failing students.”. Yes, lets blame teachers and educators because of course young men can’t be responsible for their own decisions and choices in life.

      Re your comment: ”Maybe Jamaican students are failing due to educational disability and or poor education technique/system”. I don’t think you can criticize the educational system in the UK, its bent over backwards to accommodate, encourage and support black children, probably to the deficit of other minorities. If anything its been dumbed down, to the cost of others. Blame who you like but don’t blame the teachers who aren’t allowed to challenge disruptive behaviour in their schools.

      1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:41am

        Indeed, some will continue to make excuses taking away the blame from who the blame should actually fall… the student.

    3. No youre wrong. I worked hard at school and was called a battyman. which is true but thats not the point. Some black men actively aviod studying to look more macho as there is nothing worse than being gay, you can rape and murder and be forgiven but never! As Chris Rock said you have black men and you have n*ggers.. He identified that some black men are proud of their ignorance i

      1. Go to 3.12 and learn the truth about n*ggers who are different from Black Men

        1. Dr Robin Guthrie 21 Oct 2011, 12:36pm

          You really are one big bundle of joy aren’t you.

          1. You know you love it bitch

          2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:42am

            Ain’t it so…?

        2. Spanner1960 22 Oct 2011, 12:34pm

          Yeah, and by his own definition, Chris Rock is the most racist n*gger of them all.

          1. You muppet

          2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:43am

            Typical Spanner…

      2. Ouch! Not a very clever statement.
        My 70 years old mum is using a laptop. Is it because she is white or because she put some effort in learning the skill? Bliss and bless of ignorance.

        1. friday jones 22 Oct 2011, 12:16am

          It’s because she’s female, duh! :D

    4. I believe the findings.
      Jamaica is a backwards hellhole where gay people are hunted for sport.
      How many Jamaican entrepeneurs do you see?
      This may well be true but it is still shocking to see the trend in Britain from homophobic Jamaican parents pushing this on their kids instead of embracing our culture.

      The pen is mightier than the machete in this case…

    5. lex b on you are the most dangerous type of racist the liberal do gooder with low expectations

    6. Miguel Sanchez 21 Oct 2011, 3:10pm

      Man you’re so far off bast it’s not funny. Blacks there want everything handed to them just like it is here in the USA. They want to do sports and that’s it. Teachers socially pass them because if they don’t lawsuits are filed.

      Do you realize that 60+% of incoming freshmen at universities today are having to take remedial classes before they can start on their degrees?

      Don’t blame the teachers, put the blame where it belongs.


    7. paddyswurds 21 Oct 2011, 4:53pm

      @lez b n…
      ….”As an educated Gay Black American, I’ve watched to many often that…. ” Really?
      You certainly didn’t excel in English class, as your comment is riddled with mistakes that would make a seven year old wince or perhaps your teacher was a white female? ……. That along with the racism and misogyny.

    8. Stop defending them.

    9. Jock S. Trap 12 Nov 2011, 11:24am

      Oh dear.

  9. Jason Brown 21 Oct 2011, 11:56am

    Gays are considered smarter than the average guy? Is this an insult or a compliment because I’m feeling a little flattered.

    1. There was a study i remember that showed gay people were more likely to have a better education, better paying job and have more disposable income so it’s not that far-fetched.
      I think it was an American study

      1. Gay people are more likely to be bullied at school, more likely to have an interrupted education because of this and more likely to self harm and have mental health issues/drug and alcohol misuse issues than their straight counterparts.

        1. paddyswurds 21 Oct 2011, 5:06pm

          @Fran L-G….
          ………Your entire comment is so far from reality that I am sure you must be speaking from an xtian bigots point of view. While some Gay men do suffer the maladies you mention, the percentage is no different than that of the Heterosexual community, indeed the percentage is slightly weighted toward the straights.

        2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:46am

          Yeah because of there straight counterparts!!

    2. Sadly, no – not smarter, just more like a girl – ie crap. This reeks of misogyny aswell as homophobia. There’s truth in what this man says because for some boys (not just ones from certain groups) positive attributes, eg behaving and working hard, are denigrated and labelled as sissy/girly/gay. It might be a defensive thing – that is, the boys fear failure so make up an excuse not to try – but it’s damaging (some) boys’ education every day.

      If society had a more positive attitude to women then we might see less of this kind of homophobia (and, yes, I know this is just one kind of homophobia so I don’t think homophobia in general would magically disappear but it’d be reduced, I think).

      1. This has made me think and is actually very true. What happens a great deal (especially in single sex boys schools) is that boys who do well are bullied and they often become bullies/thugs/gang members in order to stay safe and so we have a never ending spiral of negativity and waste perpetuated by black boys and men themselves.

      2. Hamster cuartro 21 Oct 2011, 1:11pm

        Hetrosexuals usually have a really awlful “home life” ! Gays as they get older tend to live alone . . . . and this is really GREAT ! ! The contrast in lifestyles is most clearly evident in homophobic countries where most of the population lives surrounded by screaming children and un – sympathic grafting families . The gays in contrast have a good time . . . this may be one of the concrete causes of Homophobia ! . . . A part of it is envy !

      3. I agree and would go further and say it holds true when race is not considered- boys are underachieving and have been overtaken by girls ages ago.

        1. I agree, and this is a most important point. This problem is not limited to Carribean or Black boys, though it may well be worse among them.

          Boys of any race generally do worse academically than girls do. It’s partly that boys have extra problems with attention and sitting still, but also due to straight boys not wanting to appear gay or girl-like due to homophobia.

          One would expect this problem to be worse in cultures that are more homophobic.

    3. LOL.

    4. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:45am

      Well thats easy, look at us… then look at people like Keith… We’re definitely smarter. Feel flattered!!

  10. I am a teacher and have seen many black boys taking up an “gay attitude” toward education as it is perceived more manly to do manual jobs, operating machinery or even having “street job”. They also told me they don’t know many well educated high profile black people. They can mostly name pop culture idols. It would be time to have more media coverage of black community. But that is not really what government wants. Innit? We need to dumb them down to control and use them. And this is not just black culture problem It is society as whole. We need idiots to buy, buy, buy and God forbid think. Church is also very helpful in this matter with all the sin and obedience crap. Religion and poverty walk hand in hand. The blind leading the cripple.

    1. If black kids can only name pop culture figures they only have themselves to blame. Televisions don’t automatically turn over to MTV when you switch one on. Libraries are free. Amazon sells more than just music downloads. How much more frickin’ coverage of the black community do you want? Or would you prefer we fabricate fictional news about how 100% of black men are achievers? As for dumbing down kids to control them- I have friends working in inner London schools and ‘control’ is the last thing they have. Quit finding someone to blame other than the kids. Its on a par with the video nasty hysteria of the 80s. We all make our own decisions and if an individual or a large swathe of people are too lazy or ignorant to better themselves don’t blame anyone else.

      1. Most people are just more successful when they are exposed to more examples, more motivated when encouraged. Of course it is individual that have to better himself. Positive and negative can be “enforced” I don’t think women of middle east choose to wear hijab. Education as well as “gaynes” is not synonymous for minorities. Just imagine black gay kid in school. I know their pain. I really do. They have no support network. None at all. Which will in long term make them stronger I’m sure. But for now my heart cries with them.

  11. There is not much difference in British school. Mental slavery is constant reminder of power of elite. Education is the last rebellion post.

    1. This comment makes absolutely no sense.

      What does it have to do with the view of the head of the Jamaican Teacher’s Association, that Afro-Caribbean males in school are engaging in deliberate scholastic failure, because they regard being educated as ‘gay’.

    2. Myself, I doubt very much you are a teacher as you claim. You can barely string a coherent sentence together.

      1. I expect he is a teacher, having witnessed the failing/falling standard of education in 21st century UK.

        1. Spanner1960 22 Oct 2011, 12:38pm

          Can I haz Teecher?
          My English better getting, Yes?

    3. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:49am

      Erm, do what now?

  12. jamestoronto 21 Oct 2011, 12:48pm

    A pretty feeble excuse to celebrate a culture of failure.

    1. Canadians are not that great you bunch of seal clubbers

      1. Spanner1960 22 Oct 2011, 12:39pm

        Yoou really are a wanker James. I wish somebody would club you.

        1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:51am

          Your no better!

      2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:50am

        Charming… and what makes you think your so civilised?

  13. There is no benefits system in JA so I imagine hustling IS the only way of life for some young black men and it’s seen as glamorous when you’re 10-13 and then not so glamorous when it’s too late to get out of it. These kids need other options and that costs money and no one wants to put the money up front right now. take a leaf out of South America’s book, where street sport and having the opportunity to play a musical instrument is making a difference and no, they don’t see music as gay! One of the issues is that young black boys/men have a distorted cultural view on what masculinity/being macho/street cred is all about. Being a thug doesn’t make you a man. Treating women and your elders with respect, providing emotionally and financially for your children and putting back into your community makes you a man. Society is to blame for the perception these kids have of what being a man constitutes, plus if I had to study for 6 years to earn less money than I could earn being a thug and

    1. Yet girls experience the same poverty but they don’t seem to revel in failure like Jamaican males.

  14. If this is their opinion then they’re idiots. I think we’ve just figured out why they’re doing poorly.

    1. Jamaica is a member of the Commonwealth.

      Is it one of those begging countries demanding aid all the time?

      Britain needs to wash its hands completely of Jamaica.

      Thanks to Jamaica’s murderous homophobia no British person should travel their on holiday.

      Thanks to the murderous homophobia of the place (and the apparent celebration of failure among the male population) then Britain should not engage in either aid or trade with Jamaica.

    2. Staircase2 21 Oct 2011, 2:43pm

      How can it be idiotic for the Head of the Jamaican Teachers Association to stand up in a homophobic country like Jamaica and say this?

      You should be applauding his actions and bravery – not being so stupid as to denigrate it

  15. Ah…Jamaica, another country to deny financial aid to.

    1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:52am

      You may be right, Robert.

  16. There are LOTS of black children achieving, despite all the odds. Ask Dianne Abbott when she’s handing out the certificates for London Black Child Achievement Awards. GRRRR! This has made me SO angry!
    How about we celebrate some diversity and achievement, rather than focus on negative cr*p which isn’t going to help anyone. Put the inspirational young black men on a pedestal for youngsters who don’t have healthy role models to see. Right now that gang member is some young black men’s ONLY inspiration.

    1. Sure. I agree that successful black children need to be celebrated.

      But that doesn’t alter the FACT that last year, 40 per cent of Afro Caribbean boys attained five good GCSEs including English and maths, compared with the national average of 58.5 per cent.

      Racism, lack of opportunity etc etc will no doubt be wheeled out as excuses.

      For once though it would be nice to seen the Jamaican community take responsibility for the academic failure of their young men.

      1. @dAVID, 7 posts on one topic mate. We get it. You really are not a fan of the Chocolate Whizzway. Now go and purge on a talll glass of milk, find some snow to sit on and put on your White Christmas album…..

        1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:53am

          Don’t see any limit to how many times a person can comment ot debate.

      2. Staircase2 21 Oct 2011, 2:26pm

        David – your comments are half baked and full of thinly veiled racism.

        1. No they are not.

          In case you missed it – it was the head of the Jamaican Teacher’s Association who claimed that Afro-Caribbean males celebrate educational failure because getting a good education is seen as ‘gay’.

          is he also a racist, do you think?

          1. Idiots screaming racist at any constructive criticism is the main reason , afro caribbean males are doing soo badly in UK schools, rather than acknowledge the crisis and actually assist the community they stupidly proclaim to defend.

        2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:53am


        3. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:54am

          A lot of people screaming racism when there isn’t any are just trying to stop others debating. Why?

    2. Why celebrate just black child achievement? A Labour incentive to garner a few stray votes.

      1. I am from Trinidad and Tobago, a few miles down the Caribbean archipelago from Jamaica and although homophobia is not as outwardly violent and pervading here, the “macho-black Caribbean man” attitudes are very much in play. When I was sitting my UWI scholarship exams, Physics and English Literature were being hosted in the same examination room. Traditionally, arts and languages attract more girls students so it was no surprise about 90% of the students were girls. But over in the Physics section of the room, about 60% of the students were also girls. Caribbean women are surpassing the men by DROVES. The feminist movement did a lot for us but so far, there has been no intellectual, cultural and spiritual movement to help men re-define what it means to be a man. So, the basest benchmarks will continue to define it- testosterone, social/cultural mores influenced by poverty, crime, social injustice and misogynistic Judeo/Christianity.

    3. Staircase2 21 Oct 2011, 2:39pm

      This is true – but you too are falling into the trap of thinking this article is based on a UK experience. It was written by the Head of the Jamaican Teachers Association IN JAMAICA.

      Of course it has relevance to the academic experience of boys in the UK – but it should be noted this is not a piece about the UK but Jamaica.

  17. Staircase2 21 Oct 2011, 2:23pm

    Firstly this article was ill-advised: To put the words of a Jamaican Educationalist in the context of a (predominantly) UK publication without fully explaining the context is shameful. Givent hat the UK has historically had a high percentage of boys from Jamaican background this gives the intimation that this article is about Jamaican heritaged boys in the UK itself.

    This editorial failing on the part of Pink News is responsible for the woeful (and predictable) bigotry and ignorance on display from most of the comments on this piece.

    Secondly, Im shocked that so many gay people would find the idea that the ‘stigma’ of being gay or feminine puts pay to academic success in boys..

    This is something that most of us experienced at school in the UK already over the years.

    And far from only affecting Jamaican boys (who are now in a minority even among black boys in the UK) this is a matter which in the UK disproportionally affects white working class boys in far greater numbers.

    1. The ‘bigotry’.

      Why is it bigotted?

      It is not bigotted to refer to Jamaica as a homophobic hellhole.

      It is a statement of fact.

      1. Are you Jamaican David?
        Do you know any Jamaicans?
        How many times have you been to Jamaica?

        1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:57am

          Does he need to?

    2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:56am

      So your saying that this isn’t happening in UK schools then? Are you ignorant or what? Of course it does.

  18. Staircase2 21 Oct 2011, 2:37pm

    I would like Pink News to rewrite the article emphasising the Foreign nature of the story (ie originating in Jamaica)

    The heading needs to be re-worded to:
    “Male Students in Jamaica perform poorly at school because ‘academic success is seen as gay’ ”

    The heading is partly to blame for the racist misinterpretation that many comments are falling into.

    It would also be useful if Pink News showed how the basic tenet of the piece is related to the experience of academic underachievement in the UK (ie the problem for ALL young male students being perceptions of ‘gayness’ / femininity).

    The actual concept is a valid one and some research has already been done on it.

    Its also very brave of the Head of Jamaican Teachers Association to stand up and say so in such a homophobic country as Jamaica.

    Not a SINGLE comment Ive read has praised this which says to me that they havent read the article/are so full of racist prejudice they cant see the wood for the trees.

    1. I kind of see your point, but it IS listed under ‘World’ so is not inaccurate on that count. It also says very clearly in the first paragraph that the man speaking is the head of the JAMAICAN Teachers Association. This story is on the BBC too and Pink News’s version is no different from that.

      Although Adolph Cameron was speaking about Jamaican boys, his comments are sensible and laudable, and, as I said above in a reply, are also relevant to some boys who are not from a Jamaican background. The issue is one of misogyny and denigration of women – that’s why some children of MANY backgrounds deride academic achievement as sissy or gay (‘gay’ meaning gay men – that is, saying that gay men are crap ‘just like women’ and not ‘proper men’ etc).

      1. And yes, it goes without saying that his comments are brave aswell as perceptive.

      2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:59am

        Indeed, Iris.

    2. Oh Shut Up!!!!

      1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:59am

        Better put JohnD, I have to say.

    3. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 8:58am

      I think your being very blinded by ignorance if you this this article is not relevent to the UK. Your seeing stuff that isn’t there and your only using racism as a excuse to stifle debate.

  19. African-Caribbean children perform poorly at school because doing well is perceived as ‘gay’ or ‘feminine’ – I guess that’d be children=boys?

  20. I am from Trinidad and Tobago, a few miles down the Caribbean archipelago from Jamaica and although homophobia is not as outwardly violent and pervading here, the “macho-black Caribbean man” attitudes are very much in play. I congratulate the Jamaican Teachers Association for blowing the whistle on this. When I was sitting my UWI scholarship exams, Physics and English Literature were being hosted in the same examination room. Traditionally, arts and languages attract more girl students so it was no surprise about 90% of the students were girls. But over in the Physics section of the room, about 60% of the students were also girls. Caribbean women are surpassing the men by DROVES. The feminist movement did a lot for us but so far, there has been no intellectual, cultural and spiritual movement to help men re-define what it means to be a man, especially a black man. So, the basest benchmarks will continue to define it- testosterone, social/cultural mores influenced by poverty, crime, social injustice and misogynistic Judeo/Christianity.

    1. You are so right- and the same thing happens with white students.

      1. What does race have to do with education as it relates to gender/sexuality issues?

        1. Not challenging you just interested in hearing your take on it if you don’t mind.

    2. A most intelligent comment, Jessie, and so true.

    3. I am pleased for the success of Caribbean women in your country. But the truth is, that man who come to Britain, do not possess the same love for education as Black Africans and Asians etc. I don’t want to put a label on Caribbeans, because they have some marvellously intelligent people, but it is true. Whatever, scientific research may claim., black people are not genetically less intelligent than whites. if that is so, how did the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians manage to have the mathematics to build such great pyramids, create medicines that we still use today, create a functional writing system?
      How did people like Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Brack Obama magae to get to the top?

  21. Miguel Sanchez 21 Oct 2011, 3:13pm

    I guess being a punk has gone global. Ripping off people is easier than getting an edication then actually having to get a job and work

  22. Johnny33308 21 Oct 2011, 3:16pm

    In some weird perverted way this is a compliment to gay people. That said, it is unbelievable that such homophobia exists in the Caribbean that the entire “culture” sacrifices its children to this evil bigotry, just to hide the truth of their males being secretly GAY. Only those who are secretly gay could give rise to such a terrible thing. No one who is secure in their own sexuality will ever care about anyone else’s sexuality. Time and again we find that those who are rabidly homophobic are SECRETLY GAY! So, it seems the majority of men in the Caribbean are gay!

  23. Gaydreamer 21 Oct 2011, 3:37pm

    Fine with me. Let them be stupid and underachieve, then.

  24. Andy Robertson 21 Oct 2011, 3:39pm

    Seems to me that a lot of black kids don’t need an education – guns and killing gay men seem more of career path!

    1. Suge Knights 21 Oct 2011, 4:19pm

      there has been more homophobic murders commited in the UK by non-blacks

      1. Spanner1960 22 Oct 2011, 12:44pm

        Proportionally? I very much doubt it.

        1. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 9:01am

          Well just shows you up for the negative racist you really are then doesn’t it.

  25. So does that mean Black Gay men are Superior humans – maybe – oh wait there’s no such thing as a Black gay is there ….. What utter Bollox

  26. dumb culture serves them right but shows that the homophobia is real stupid and promoted by idiots

  27. Studying and good grades? no wonder i’m gay. It all makes sense now.

  28. Suge Knights 21 Oct 2011, 4:16pm

    whats worrying is this head of jamaican teachers etc actually believes this Sh*t. That would make all of the clever jamaican boys/men gay?

    1. No, it wouldn’t make all the clever ones gay – just perecived to be so by their peers who may link academic success with being gay/a girl/a sissy.

      The Head of the JTA is right. This IS a problem – and amongst boys from all backgrounds.

    2. Jock S. Trap 13 Nov 2011, 9:02am

      Why is it sh!t? Are you making excuses?

  29. Helen Wilson 21 Oct 2011, 4:26pm

    What would happen if LGBT people
    claimed they are not trying to be athletes because its such a black thing to do?

    International outrage I suppose!

    These statements are wrong whatever way you put them.

    1. I agree with you exactly. Being black and bisexual, I find that there is a lot of homophobia amoungst this race, for whatever reason. Follow on Twitter to protest against homophobia and the misuse of words such as gay.

  30. Peter Paul Fuchs 21 Oct 2011, 4:32pm

    Somehow oddly this story is making me think of that now famous video from Uganda with the incredible title of “Eat Da Poo Poo”. It is available plentifully on Youtube in various forms; as well as parodies of it, which I also very entertaining. Significantly, this anti-gay diatribe begins with the very ACADEMIC sounding statement from the speaker: “I have been doing a little research!” As if to confirm the mental rot involved with hateful tropes like anti-gay hatred, the rest of the video is one of the funniest and sad things you will ever witness.

  31. soapbubblequeen 21 Oct 2011, 4:37pm

    I have come to the conclusion that people, both black and white, who listen to rap music are inherently stupid. Or just depressed. If more was done to prevent homophobic rappers giving vent to their bigotry, then perhaps some of this ‘attitude’ that anyone who is bright and intelligent would disappear. I don’t care what anyone says, and how old-fashioned it sounds: in the absence of good parenting and role models, young people are shaped by what they listen to and see on flat screens. And 90% of it is inane, violent, mindless rubbish that doesn’t stretch their minds.

    1. HELLO? Jamaican boys and girls get their homophobe indoctrination from their anglican parents, ministers and teachers. blame the christian churches for the whole problem.

    2. Remember.rap wouldnt be on tv if cowell were not getting rich

      1. Dr Robin Guthrie 24 Oct 2011, 11:09am

        That’ll be rap, as in C.rap

  32. If someone’s life chances are harmed by their own prejudices, good.

    1. You sound a little extreme, but I agree with you. I am black and bisexual, and can tell you hands down, that there is a lot of homophobia. Especially in rap music. I don’t personally agree with your tit for tat philosphy, but it is stupid that blacks should complain about prejudice when they are being prejudiced themselves.

  33. So true, i went to school in south london, where most of my form were black or of duel heritage. One black boy was very smart , sure he was cambridge material, was constantly bullied, called chi chi man by others in his community just for being intelligent. Anyhow i think he was soo pressurised he went off the rails, last i heard he was in prison , but more admired within his community than going to cambridge.

    1. That is such a shame. So blacks don’t want to be intelligent-they are only harming themselves that wya and leaving the doorway open for prejudice and blacklisting-literally. Im black by the way, before you hit the report abuse button.

  34. Ivy League graduate and black Def Poet Daniel Beatty did a poem called ‘Duality Duel’ (you can find it on YouTube) which captures the struggle between his cynical, angry, violent inner city self and the enlightened, educated and civil self that wants to conform and fit into the existing system. Fortunately for him, he was able to negotiate between the two and be successful. However, many black men cannot do it. Chris Rock put it so well when he described the relationship black people have with America (and I imagine the UK is similar) “America is like the rich uncle who paid for your college education, but also molested you when you were nine.” Black women (in general) whether in the UK, Caribbean or America, have an easier time negotiating this dichotomy because as WOMEN we already know what it is like to compromise, forgive and just try to make lemons out of lemonade. Men are a different story. That male pride/ego is just too fragile.

    1. Growing up in a country with free education and a health system is like ” molested you when you were nine”


      1. No. But growing up in a society with racial prejudice is.

        It is something gay people should also identify with. Yes there are benefits, social rewards etc. There is also daily bigotry, prejudice and discrimination. So it is like an uncle who does give you some benefits while violating you in other areas. I hope the analogy is clearer now.

  35. Wow….and all this time I thought they performed poorly because they were black….

    1. Don Mc Cormick 23 Oct 2011, 2:16am

      Generally children that perform poorly are poorly educated and ill-informed . It isn’t always the schools fault or is it ?
      Should they , being the adults have a process to deal with all this nonsense . ?

    2. You say you thought we perform poorly because we are black- have you been to Africa? Watch one of your charity programs. It appears that you whites who go to schools there find that the level of education and achievement is suprisingly higher there than in Britain. You believe blacks do badly- because you are in Britain and for some reason blacks are fooling around. I am African, and I achieved 10 GCSE’s, 5 of them A*, 3 of them A and two B. I am doing three sciences and French for A level, and have been predicted straight A’s for all of them. I speak in addition to English, French, German and Mandarin. My father has a Ph.D in Biochemistry. All blacks are dumb?
      What about Obama and Condoleeza Rice? Would they have achieved so well, if your theory holds true?

  36. friday jones 21 Oct 2011, 11:51pm

    A subculture of males who voluntarily limit their earning power and influence because of their own blatant misogyny and homophobia? This is a problem how?

  37. This doesn’t suprise me to be honest. The afro-caribbean community in this country is one of the most homophobic.

  38. Gay Daily Mail Reader 22 Oct 2011, 6:58am

    Do they mean the latest street slang meaning for ‘Gay’? Teenagers often describe something they don’t like as being ‘a bit gay’ while ‘Phat’ means good or brilliant. By describing something as poor or ‘gay’ does not necessarily indicate homophobia.
    Even when I was at school being a ‘swot’ was unfashionable. It is said that God made intelligent people gay so they won’t be burdened with children.

    1. Don Mc Cormick 23 Oct 2011, 2:17am

      No they don’t they mean homosexual !!

  39. Once again blaming everyone else rather than take ANY responsibility.

  40. Negroids, ha ha ha. What d’ya expect?

    1. Uhm, excuse me, but if you go to Africa, you ignorant racist, you wil see many Africans who are doing well. Your research is only showing you one side of the story. Can you claim to be Einstein. No? Then shut up.

  41. Don Mc Cormick 23 Oct 2011, 2:12am

    You just wonder what goes on in peoples’ heads. What part of Education in missing to the extent that young boys think that being educated is evidence of being homosexual ?? It beggars belief just how stupid a person can get . They are learning it from somwhere !!

  42. Black culture is daft.

    1. David Shepherd 23 Oct 2011, 3:39pm

      Ah, but yhe culture of our colonial masters is, well,..masterful.

      Yes, bwana, I’ve got it!

    2. It is daft at the moment, but if some of our race could be persuded to get their act together, then it could become credible. That is a massive could.

  43. yep, and white children and asian children and all children.

    1. Why is it that Asian children and African children in Africa are doing marvellously well, and yet blacks in Britain are consistently lagging behind. They complain of racism- do they not think that Asians are subjected to racism too? Yet they are achieving well! And what about African refugees, who were proven to have exceeded the French children in various difficult exams? They are treated badly too! What excuse do our soul brothers have other than the fact that they are extremely narrow-minded?

  44. Good on the kids who knuckle down and get academic success!

    Whats so big about hanging about with friends, showing off the latest thing gained?

    Yet again, the word ‘gay’ is being used in the wrong context.

    Getting educated is not stupid!

    1. Yes! Finally!
      I am a black female, and find that the attitude of black males is atrocious. I am feeling very staisfies after my GCSE results which I found I had gained 5A*’s, 3A’s and 2B’s. The results for doing well at school cannot be underestimated or put under a derogatory context.
      Blacks, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!

  45. While I am uneasy with the idea that people should use race as a defining characteristic of their personality and identity (I’d far rather people of all races felt they had equal access to every sphere of life), it does seem that the black cultures which are currently the most pervasive are not the most helpful ones. Which is a terrible shame, because there have been many black African cultures where learning and scholarship, art and architecture and intellectual success have been lauded (the Malinese, Great Zimbabwe, ancient Nubia etc.). It seems to me that what passes for “black culture” to many these days is a very poor relation indeed, and it doesn’t have to be that way. More needs to be done to enrich modern black cultures with some of the empowering values that have existed in black cultures of the past.

  46. Gary Potter 24 Oct 2011, 4:58pm

    I have been a teacher for over ten years, this comment is nothing but racism.
    Why is it seen as gay or sisie, it’s nothing to do with gay issues it is parental racism at its worst and blaming white people or gay people who also can be BLACK is yet another excuse to be racist and pure utter laziness on that teachers behalf.

    Grow up.

  47. Let’s be clear. The MAIN thing at issue here is not race and I am disappointed people in the gay community would take a simplistic view of this when the deeper issue is far more important to us all. The REAL issue is the warped type of masculinity society has inculcated in our boy children of ALL RACES. We have told them that to be a REAL man, you must be aggressive, rebellious and dominate others to feel strong when you are insecure. I would think as gay people (who challenge these stereotypes every day by our very nature) we should be more enlightened about the damage of its falsehood on the male psyche.
    It affects ALL boys of ALL races. Right now there is a white kid, insecure about his ability to keep up in class, insecure about his looks, insecure about his domestic situation, insecure about his social standing and acting out by being belligerent, abusive and bullying. Learning requires a level of confidence and openness to taking instruction, being told you are wrong, being embarrassed in front of the class as you attempt to correct yourself. How can ANY boy suffering under this warped masculine paradigm be open to learning? How do you think he views boys who seem to thrive intellectually in a system that makes him feel emasculated in his own misguided mind? Especially in co-ed schools where there is added incentive (impressing the girls) to act out this warped masculinity to compensate for lacking areas.
    The solution to these problems lie in proper understanding of the root cause.

    1. I am black, and the number of black boys and girls that I see just whiling away time at school, their golden oppurtunity. Right wingers etc then take these facts and use it to paint a negative picture of black people. And then black people have the nerve to complain about racism! This is nothing compared to what blacks had to suffer in the sixties, and yet then, blacks were chieiving well at school, well mannered, and doing the best for themselves. Now, it has all gone downhill. It is not that blacks are less cleverer than whites- go to Africa, and you will see different. Black African children take their education very seriously, not just because they don’t have a lot, but also because they love it. They come to the West and also succeed. A recent survery showed that the children in an Ugandan refugee camp did far better in exams than French children.
      I think that this problem is mainly to be seen in Afro-Caribbean children.

  48. Jock S. Trap 12 Nov 2011, 11:21am

    So there was me thinking the last government was all about education…. Wrong!!!

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