Let’s just say this, I’d rather have Ellen & Portia babysit my children than Keith O’Brien.
I admit, I laughed (although I concede that the issue really is not funny). And absolutely agree. No way on earth would I leave a child alone with a Catholic priest. Now, I know most of them are probably decent men but the hierarchy above them, who have conspired and concealed, are not. And I simply would not take that risk.
This whole Marriage Equality thing is such a bore, especially given that the breeders are abandoning it in their millions. Who needs it …..It is so yesterday and as stale as last weeks bread. Forget it and move on I say.
Interestingly when marriage equality is brought in there is a positive impact on heterosexual marriage …
You are entitled to your views, I prefer to seek equality in all areas of life including recognition of relationships …
Equal marriage matters
….”Interestingly when marriage equality is brought in there is a positive impact on heterosexual marriage” …where exactly is Marriage Equality the norm for you to have come to this conclusion.
Even if there is some such Nirvana, it’s hardly long enough in operation for anyone to be able to assess its benefits or otherwise….. Like I said above I really don’t think it is an equality worth fighting and conversly alienating the hetties over…
Places where there are equal marriage include most Scandinavian countries, Spain, Argentina, some US states …
Academic research that has been shown to be conducted in a non biased manner has demonstrated that equal marriage brings greater value to the institution of marriage and encourages heterosexual marriage as well as encouraging gay partnerships
So far from a Nirvana, if we look at events outside the US, UK and Ireland we can see that some nations have moved on beyond where we are … Not everywhere is small minded
You may not think its an equality worth fighting for, thats your call – but by not supporting other people who value this form of equality then we are intrinsically saying that their views are irrelevant and if they feel they are not treated fairly thats irrelevant, and I prefer to give my support to them
That is for individuals to decide not one person alone. Everyone should have the choice to marry or equally the choice not to marry.
The Catholic Curch should just mind it’s own business and go and do what it does best! Childcare?????
Well yeah, I do laugh my backside off every time the RCC tries to assert moral authority. Let’s see, collusion and conspiring with child molesters, trying to intimate the families of the abused, maintaining huge coffers of pay-off money (hey Catholics, put your money in the collection plate and that is what YOU support…what stars you are). Then add in the lies about condoms. Then the Vatican with its vast and obscene wealth while its worshippers often go hungry and uneducated and suffer in huge and unsustainable families. Yes. Every time the RCC tries to claim it is moral or standing up for what is “right”, throw it in their faces.
and these are the people you want to join?
No,the proposal is for civil marriage not religious marriage so this has nothing to do with the Church.
Er. No. I don’t want to join the catholic church. Is your tinfoil hat a little bit too tight? Or are you just another boring bloody Poe?
Translation, Child care = Catholic pedophile priest.
Well done to the Tories and LibDems for promising marriage by 2015
The people of Great Britain judging them in 2015. With a number of out gay MP’s already in Parliament I think that Gay Marriages will be a non-issue when it comes to the test. People here are more concerned about the economy, the NHS, Europe, race relations and immigration than gay issues.
I still dont understand how gay marriage is a threat to the boring kind. If your marriage is in danger of collapsing because of someone elses right to marry the person they love, then i think you have bigger problems than worrying about changes to the law which actually arent going to affect you.
I don’t understand why gay marriage is more important than equality. Some gay people don’t stand a chance in their communities but the middle class gay people who set the agenda only care about being respectable. The people on estates have no voice and no choice yet they will be on the receiving end of any aggro
Something to aspire to then isn’t it.
Equality before marriage make sense dosen’t it
Let’s wait for the revolution like odd-ball communists arguing in empty halls.
Equality is absolutely critical. But I think having equal marriage rights will help with that. It’s not just homophobic individuals who are the problem, it’s the whole attitude of society in my opinion, and deeming us ‘lesser’ in some way by not allowing us access to civil marriage encourages those around us to see us as less worthy, more up for criticism than anyone else.
Whether LGBT people choose to use these rights or are personally interested in them is irrelevant. I’d like to be treated just the same way I would have been had I been straight. I don’t want to be deprived of rights that everyone else has, and I don’t want my rights up for discussion like I’m some kind of recalcitrant child who the ‘correct’ majority can deem worthy of rights or not.
Homophobia can be violent or subtle. Treating us as lesser encourages both.
What is the point in marriage equality if every Friday or Sunday you can be condemmed by people respected by millions?
Unfortunately James! you have a point, however we cannot change these things overnight.
You do have a point James!, but we are improving in terms of LGBT rights compared to where we were even 5 years ago. Isn’t marriage one aspect of equality that we should also have?
But marriage is an important part of Equality not a separate issue altogether.
I would go for criminilising of anti gay sermons first. In a civilised society no one group should be vilified swap gay for black or jew and the person saying it would be in court. We seem to accept that religious bigotry is ok.
Nobody said it was. You are making sweeping generalisations about the concerns of other gay people with no evidence to back them up. What are you doing about these helpless gay people living on estates, as you term them?
Well I think it’s documented that gay people in some traditionally working class areas have been murdered over the past 6 years. The priority should be to ensure that no one can spread hatred in the name of their god. As long as we are at high risk of harrasement suicide and murder that should take priority before marriage.
Yes, this hatred in working class areas is a terrible problem, especially for those directly affected. But maybe global warming is an even greater threat to us all and those who follow us, so should we perhaps abandon LGBT-issues altogether and concentrate only on environmental concerns?
Or should we learn to multi-task?
Nice try Brian
Equality and no hate speech in the name of religion should take priority over a ceremony. Typical right wing queens
It is not “more important than” equality, it’s a part of equality. An important part – equal access to the legal, cultural and social institutions of our society on the same footing as everyone else. Because when we are legally prevented from doing what everyone else can do, we are not equal. Especially when what we are excluded from is something with tremendous social, emotional and cultural cachet. And it’s not just middle-class people who value marriage and respectability. If anything it’s working-class people who place the greatest emphasis on these markers of social acceptance, or at least that has been my experience.
It’s part of equality but not the most important. make it illegal for the religious people to spread their lies first then get married
I agree with that, James! I hate the way some religious people are allowed to spread lies without being challenged, but I hope that as we move forward those people will become more and more isolated. I also think that’ll be a harder job (to curb those lies) than to get equal marriage!
Exactly Iris marriage is the easy option and I don’t want it lauded and a new dawn while the bigots can still preach hatred as if it the most normal thing
I think it is the most important part. Marriage is a central and highly regarded part of our culture. It is only by securing our equality in such important institutions that we will normalise our existence and become as unremarkable and unexceptional as anyone else. Religious people are fringe kooks and nutcases with very little real influence on society in Britain. America, yes, but not here. But, as I keep pointing out, we can do more than one thing at once. It’s not a question of one thing after another, we can do lots of things to improve our lot all at once.
VP you may laugh at the nutcases but they are the ones opening up shop front churches all over London they have an audience and should not be ignored.
Yes. Yes they should be ignored. They are a noisy irrelevance and the more they are ignored the less influence they will have. Religion is dying in this country. It has mostly died already. That’s why we can even contemplate such equality laws as allowing marriage equality. Congregations are dwindling rapidly, and now religiosity in Britain is almost the sole preserve of recent generations of immigrants stll clinging to the superstitious cultures of their former homes. They too will secularise in coming generations. We should give the last feeble gasps of religion no further mind.
Yes VP ignore the people who want you dead
“make it illegal for the religious people to spread their lies first then get married”
Yeah I think you want it all the wrong way round. All your way is doing is delaying, probably by decade the things we are achieving now. Surely how we are getting the progress is better as it gradually squeezes out the bigots as people learn about our community and learn that on many things they were wrong and that we are worthy of being treated just like everyone.
You way is to separate and continue to until…well I’m not sure but it wouldn’t go well for us.
I guess in a fantasy world you way would be good but sadly James! this is the real world where unfortunately religiojn still has pulling power. Thankfully the real world of doing things means we actually get somewhere positive with progression.
I agree but surely your way is ignoring the massive progress that has happened and is happening through marriage equality. Only as we get more and more equal for attitudes change and religion finds itself out on a limb and that is already happening and long may it continue.
Surely marriage is part of Equality so both go hand in hand.-
We can’t expect to deal with issues of discrimination effectively unless equality is in place to show we should be treated the same.
Marriage is a very important part of Equality.
Your generalisation of people on estates is clouded. Some have problems however plenty don’t. I actually find your comment borderline class discrimination to be honest.
Christians “leaders” are afraid of losing their control over people and , if they lose their control over the people they lose all the money that people give them in the millions of dollars so they can be the ones who are on top.
I dont understand why any gay person would want to get married in a church with all that anti gay bigotry. Marriage does not equal equality some of us are atheists and do not care. Stop churches, mosques and synagoges slagging us off first.
I agree that many churches and almost all mosques are run by fairly homophobic people, but not all of them are. There are many very accepting, very egalitarian denominations which welcome gay people, and if one happens to be closely involved in such a community then it is entirely understandable that they would wish to have it celebrate their marriage. Also, what has marriage got to do with religion? I’m about as atheistic as they come, yet I dearly want to marry my beloved, like all my friends and brother are allowed to marry theirs. Don’t let the religious bigots pretend that they own the institution – they don’t and never have. If you really want to break their pretensions to power over society then it is precisely by standing up and stopping them from interfering on issues like this – the issues that they fulminate the most over – that will get us there.
Priorities mate. Sort out the hompphobic churches mosques and synagoges first. Make it illegal to preach that crap
We already have fairly harsh hate speech legislation. And last time I checked we were capable of pursuing more than one issue at a time . It is not and should not be illegal to be a hateful bigot. What it should be is laughable, pitiable and socially unacceptable. Those are not things we can legislate into being – we will achieve them only through continued and consistent attempts to normalise homosexuality in our culture.
I pity you
Yes, normalise, because how on earth are we going to put an end to bigotry when some people still think that being gay is in some way abnormal? When we’re still strange outsiders, and by dint of our very nature not considered an equal part of society? Unless being gay is as normal, unremarkable and unworthy of comment as being straight, we will not have the equality you so value. How on earth can you expect any further progress unless the normalisation of homosexuality continues?
Equal and different we don’t all have to be the same to be accepted
Normalisation is not about slavishly conforming to every social model, it’s about being able to if we want. It’s about having the same opportunities to be conventional or unconventional as everyone else does. We can be different from the crowd if we like, but we shouldn’t HAVE to be different. If we are forced to be different simply because of who we are, we are not equal.
Maybe I’m not being clear. Equality is about being yourself and being accepted.
and being about to be treated as equally as anyone else, having the law on our side and generally being treated just as human as the next person…. that is Equality too. That means being able to have the choice of getting married, too.
Sounds good but sadly not realistic due to still too many bigots and the pulling power of religion.
I guess if we do it your way we could expect marriage in say… another 100 years.
So why not work the other way, like it’s happening. It’s called progress and more and more, even within religion are supporting it.
Im neither an atheist nor religious …
Personally I would not value a church wedding
I know some religious people are very anti gay and bigoted – but not all, and there has been pro gay religious stories on PN recently
Some gay people are religious and I can empathize why they might feel some value in their wedding having a religious element
Yes there are some great pro gay religious people but the majority are not the bible tells them we are the devil
“Im neither an atheist nor religious …”
Join the club – so to speak
Agnosticism is probably more popular in the UK than most atheists or religious people would want to acknowledge!!!
There are plenty of churches that are accepting and actually want to perform marriage equality, so what about them?
Marriage does give equality. Just because you’re and atheist doesn’t mean others shouldn’t have the right to be married how they see fit, even if that means a church. So they find a church that is willing, should they be forced not too? How equal would that be… not!
Remember many churches, synagoges and some Imans Want to be able to perform marriage equally. They’re not ‘slagging us’ off so why stop them?
Your arguement, though has some credit is flawed because many will within will not accept, we see that now. Surely what is happening now is key to progress and the best way. People change, attitudes change and religions are slowing finding they are in a minority.
it would be great if the pro gay religious people spoke up and condemmed those who attack us espically the imans and shop front churches which I think are the most hostile
Some do and are reported on PN
Q. Why do gay people want to get married in a church?
A. Christians, Catholics, Mormons, Jews, Muslims and all religions have gays who love each other and being in love they like most people want to get married in their church like most people who love each other and being gay and Christian they want to get married in their Christian church or whatever religion and church they are part of. It is only normal that people, gay or straight want to do this.
I really dont see the problem of gay marriage at all. Its exactly the same as str8 “normal” (whatever normal actually is) marriage but with two guys or gals – what is the issue???
My answer is simple and one that most ppl will understand – religion itself. Religion has been the blight on the world since religion itself was born.
Thank you who set this marriage agenda before equality. I would like to be able to walk down the street hand in hand without being shouted at
And you chance of doing so is much enhanced by the normalisation of gay relationships through gay marriage: people can no longer point to us as different. Are you one of those tiresome people who has been whispering in Stonewall’s ears to back peddle on this issue, I wonder?
Normalisation says it all.
Yes, it does. Because when we are considered normal, unremarkable, and just like everyone else, the bigotry will be at an end. If you want to be subversive, anarchic, outcast, unconventional and provocative then by all means find a way to do that, but just being gay doesn’t mean one should automatically have to be those things. Some of us just want to get on with life like all our friends do. We’re not forcing you to do so, but don’t you at least see the value of letting us have the option at all?
The problem is that gay marriage has taken priority over everything else if like me you would prefer other priorities I am shouted down. I didn’t say I don’t want it I just don’t understand how it could be a prioroty while we are still a target
It is because securing marriage equality will help to stop us being such a target in the long term that it is so important. Marriage is a hugely important social and cultural thing for huge numbers of people in this country, gay and straight. It’s a marker, a milestone, a part of the fabric of our culture. Securing it helps us to normalise our sexuality and make it unremarkable and unworthy of comment or special treatment. When that happens, we will no longer be “targets”.
I want equality not normalisation
That’s like saying you want a bank account without a bank. Normalisation is an essential precondition for equality.
Erm, do you not want to be seen as normal then James!?
I guess James! when we are seen to be normal like everyone else we are treated normal like everyone else. Marriage will go a big way to helping that. Your way keeps us separated and something to point at, not the norm. Prehaps it’s what your used to but it ain’t what I want.
Surely been see as the norm IS equality. We are trying to move away from being treated differently as second class citizens, aren’t we?
People who shout abuse are committing a public order offence. But none of us, gay or straight, have a police officer shadowing us to arrest them when they do. The issue is one of a cultural awareness. You cannot pass a law to make everyone “like” us. What you can do is work on reversing the culture of homophobia, and denying the church power over the subject of marriage (which is a civil contract) is one of many steps to be taken.
OK, so how does having marriage equality change that? Surely by having equality we get better at having laws on our side to deal with it.
I wander if it’s really religion you want to change/silence or more than the people, in which case you fighting an unwinnable war. Battles can be won on this but people will always have bigotted views. Sadly it is their choice but so long as it doesn’t come to hatred or violence thats the price of freedom of speech.
The way things are happening is best because this way changes attitudes for the better.
Equal marriage is not BEFORE equality it is an important part of equality and a visible part that helps normalise gay relationships and acceptance in society
Amazing how they warp the truth and how they disregard history. Originally, marriage was about establishing property and defining kinship, the woman often did not consent and she could have been raped or beaten at will by her husband. It is an act of acute intellectual dishonesty to try and say that marriage was always a loving relationship, that is a reasonably modern iteration. And what is more, no one elected them, their beliefs and interpretations of those beliefs are not universally shared and Britain is not a bloody theocracy.
And this is the institution we are supposed to be desperate to join
who’s talking about joining the RCC?
just because some gay people want to be able to get married, doesn’t mean they want to join the RCC.
Some of us are very happy with the totally non-homophobic churches we already belong to.
A non homophobic church? what bible does that read from?
You’re showing your Moron-merit badge James.
There are MANY churches that are non homophobic.
They read the Bible and understand that much of it is mistranslated from the original Aramaic and ancient Greek, and they understand that large swaths of it are simply not applicable as it represented the world view of a largely nomadic tribal society, pre-science.
You may not think so (you may not think, actually, from reading your comments), but the Bible does contain much that is good in it.
Deny it all you want, but our modern society owes most of its rules of fairness and equality on some form of biblical basis.
What? The institution of marriage? Well, hun, the rule of thumb and marital rape have been outlawed and while kinship is still important, one spouse no longer becomes the property of the other. I was merely remarking on the fallacy of what religious idiots think “traditional” marriage was, compared to what it actually was in history, what it is now, and how the institution is in a state of constant evolution.
OK so may I suggest if you don’t want the right to have the choice to marry, to be equal you don’t stop the rest of us that do.
Religious organisations, especially the Catholic Church is becoming ever more political these days and i think that is wrong! But let’s face it, with the 3 main political parties in Westminister supporting gay marriage, i doubt that the church’s opposition is going to be much of a difference. I would also like to ask why Islam wasnt mentioned when it came to opposition to this proposed legislation. Is it because Islam is probably the most homophobic of the main religions of the world (Im more than willing to give evidence to back that) and as such we should expect that from them? Or do we only bash Christians here?
I don’t think there has been an official response from any islamic organisation to this particular story – Cameron’s message of support – yet. The responses we have had have been from the christians, so it is right and proper that they should come in for the most ire on this threat. Also, the christians are fairly heavily involved in Tory party culture and ethics, so it is more directly relevant to them. It’s not as if we need to force islam into every discussion of religious bigotry, we get plenty of chances to dress them down as it is!
The Church of England is influential in Tory politics. The church, which is synominous with English rural life has often been described as ‘The Consrvative Party At Prayer’.
The Christians are killing the Muslims what with Americas and their allies in the new Holy Wars on Muslims so they can convert them into a Christian democracy like America. So the real problem is the Catholic and Christian church that seeks to control all people to get them all thinking like them and if they ever do have a one world Government then they can have a one world religion that will also be used to control the people. Only problem is the people who do not go along with it end up in some kind of prison or dead.
Things won’t be equal until civil partnerships and marriage become equal and open to all irrespective of sexual mix.
Thing will not be equal until the religious people cannot tell the world we are evil and should be killed. Get married all you want but remember that same church reckons you are the anthesis of what is good on earth
It is irrelevant what the churches think on marriage. It is not theirs to own.
All marriage is a civil affair.
The religious component id only for those that want it.
Religious quuens are the least tolerant they know the words but not the song
Unfortunately the same could be said about you.
Who cares what they think? That shouldn,t stop people who want this to fight for it! The proposal is not to have religious gay marriage it’s for civil marriage.
Sounds to me like you want to be a martyr to a very long bitter war.
Sorry but I want to see progress and with that attitudes do change. At least this way we get Equality, your way we don’t.
Firstly, civil marriage has nothing to do with religion – it is whatever the state says it is – so butt out. Secondly, allowing religious groups that want to carry out same-sex marriages to do just that is an increase in religious freedom.
I wish the boring buggers would just accept that the rest of us don’t want to live under laws decided by invisible spirits and just sod off.
Too right. those who are setting the agenda want to disassociate them selves from the poofs freaks trannies club kids etc. They want to be respectable and buttoned up and fak the majority
Jock dahling, is that you stirring things up? These posts are a bit too fake ;)
No is James! you sill cow. Add something to the debate or fak off
No it’s not, you’re a fake
Oh for Christs sake (pun intended) take your bitchin outside.
I equate myself with who I am and have no need to pin labels on people as you are doing.
Wow! Where are you getting this from? Sounds like someone left at the altar. Nobody is going to force you to get married so calm down.
Funny that Catholic priests say they value marriage yet they prevent their own priesthood from taking part, with horrific results.
It is truly amazing that they don’t see their own absurd double standards, isn’t it?
While there is a joke “abstinence makes the church grow fondlers.” I suspect that abstinence has nothing to do with it. The child molesters flock to the catholic church because they know it has a culture of hiding it, concealing it, enabling it and then paying off the victims. And nonces are very good at putting themselves in protected positions of trust. The disgrace is not only that the RCC failed to act to stop it, it is also that they then actively enabled it to continue.
Translation, Catholic Priest can not get married = Catholic pedophile priest.
The catholic church is a small minority within a small minority in the UK, yet certain priests are behaving like they own the country, following the pope declaring his jihad on gay people recently.
That church has been meddling in politics around the globe, which has stirred up hatred and homophobia, just look at the NOM in America, it has simply become a virulent hate group funded largely by the Catholic and Mormon churches.
Clerics should stick to the pastoral care of their flocks.
What’s the point of the government excluding religious marriages from the March 2012 consultation if the churches are just going to argue about the word marriage. The consultation is on “civil” marriage and isn’t their thing yet they try to own the word marriage. Lets bung “religious” marriages into the equation and get the whole thing out of the way in one whole sweep…. These guys didn’t really want British CPs to mimick marriages and then they didn’t want religious elements added to them. You just can’t win with them……The media, MPs etc can’t keep on telling us we are really married and have equality already and then have these guys tell us but marriage is something completely different, the bedrock of society blah blah and we are just second rate citizens , not part of British society, we can exist but we must remember we are not equals….they can’t have it both ways, either the govt stands up to them and tells them we are equal or not!
They penny dropped. Gay marriage will keep the church in the papers where if they were ignored the church would die out. Only the africans seem to be interested in relgion.
Do you live on planet earth?
Thank god you disagree.
I realise that the right wing queens have taken over. I am no longer gay but queer
Is English your second language? Think before you type please.
And why is it that you seem to use the word queen only in a negative context? I’m proud to be a queen thank you.
No-one has taken over. People just want to get on living rather than carrying the revolution.
i dont think thats fair, i know a lot of religious people. but people often say im not that interested in music, because my headphones are a discreet black, and im the only person who can hear whats coming through them. so i can sort of understand. religion in this country is modernising with society, even if a few of their spiritual leaders are stuck in the dark ages. every generation grows more tolerant.
I dont want tolerance as you would tolerate a bad smell or normalisation. Be like us or f off. I want equality
“Be like us or f off. I want equality”
I really hope you can see the oxymoron in that last statement.
To the catholic church, “if you don’t play the game, you can’t make the rules.”
It’s time to take a hard line with these meddling priests.
Other countries have Spain notably!
But then I know they don’t have God as the first word of their national anthem (In fact the Spanish one has no words at all).
It does seem that all the Catholic countries are sick of the church.
arrogant organisations dictating everyone there hatred and think they have the right to exclude people from being part of society and preventing people from living their lives how the want to.
as a man who swings to the left, and often spouts anti tory sentiments that i better not get started on in this case… i think its great that the PM is making this an issue for his party. i just hope he gives the oposition to this the same hard faced refusal he gave to the students and everybody who has marched/protested against the cuts.
its been a while since i watched PMQs.. im not one for panto. but i think i might tune in to see how this goes down.
Civil marriage has NOTHING to do with religious cults.
why are these hateful, undemoratic cults sticking their oar into subjects where their opinions are neither required, nor welcome?
They dont want us to have ‘normal’ lives. If we have normal lives it will prove that we are just that, normal. All the BS they have been saying about us for years will be proven wrong.
Thats the real truth of the churchs anti gay marriage rant.
What can we expect. It’s happened in every country that now has same-sex marriage. They are out of touch and in the case of the roman cult, morally bankrupt and hardly in a position to pass moral judgment on gay people. They DON”T own civil marriage, the state does. How would the like it if we demanded that they receive no funding from our taxes. Starve the beasts. Such a pity the catholic emancipation act was ever passed in the 19th century. A huge mistake. It’s also time to disestablish state religion in our country, once and for all.
He is reported to have said, “Rowf! rowf! rowf-rowf! rowf! rowf!”
This is why I love people like Richard Dawkins and et cetera.
We cannot jut co-exist with religious people, so we need people like Dawkins to bash religious people. These sorts of stories show that religious people are not content with just believing the crap they believe – they want to force it on others. They want their discriminatory view of marriage to be the civil, legal definition.
Religious people can’t even co-exist with each other. It is either Catholics v. Proddies on Northern Ireland, Jews v. Muslims in the Occupied territories or Hindus v. Sikhs in India. And when there is no one from another religion to bash, they go and bash someone who is the wrong type of member of their own faith such as Sunni and Shia Muslims in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and so on. We don’t need to bash them – they are too busy doing it themselves! We are gay and we l love my fellow man (literally) and we should show the world we are better than them! In spite of all the persecution levelled at us, we did not have to resort to terorism, kidnap and child-murder to make our point.
So we have to live in perpetual conflict?
Most weddings in our secular society take place in Registrar Offices and not churches so therefore the Catholic Church or the Church of England does not have a say, especially as 90% of the population do not attend church regularly anyway. The Metropolitan Church will be happy to conduct such weddings and ordained ministers from the Universal Life Church can conduct gay and interfaith weddings on church premises. The mainstream churches should concern themselves with real issues like world poverty, hunger, overpopulation, war and child abuse.
Agree. But real issues like poverty and hunger take time and commitment and effort, whereas trying to vilify and boss LGBT people about is easy and cheap, that’s why they do it. And heck, as the joke goes: “If you want to feed the world, just sell the Vatican.”
And feed the Pope and the Cardinals to the lions!
Less than 2% attend church weekly.
This is why Mr Cameron is going down the civil marriage route not the religious one at the moment because as we can see even with civil marriage the religious bigots cannot keep their rather large discriminating conks out of things that doesn’t concern them.
We knew we was expecting this after his speech and it’s time religion was put in it’s place. They have nothing to add on civil marriage and it’s time they should be made to realise it.
Are the upper echelons of the Catholic church in the UK entirely foreign?
The churches can oppose gay civil-marriage all they like, but the churches are not currently the arbiters of who can and who cannot get married, the law is. Could someboby please explain to me what it has got to do with them anyway?!
A few months back I was on a walking tour of Amsterdam with just the guide and my partner and myself.
We went through the university building and noticed a sign for a debate to be held later that evening.
The subject ‘Is the catholic church a criminal organisation’.
Enthralled we went along and the debate was most interesting with some eloquent speakers indeed.
Having been brought up a Catholic (capitals intentional) and spent a good part of my life with the necessary guilt planted on my shoulder I personally got a lot out of it.
My partner who has not had the same misfortune in life thought the entire thing bizarre and pretty much what he would have expected.
Look whose talking- children have not been safe with clergy. They are more likely to be better brought up within marriage of a gay couple. Listen Mr Cameron but ignore these anti Christian fanatics. Looking at the statistic gay couples are more likely to stay together than the other kind. But as far as RC bishops are concerned it is like hiting a stone wall. They are trying to cover their terrifying failures to take care of children.
People are entitled to believe anything they want but what possible justification is there for any sect or cult to try and influence the law. No religious body will be compelled to officiate at any ceremony.
I know these people love having a group of people to persecute and sometimes patronise but we do not live in a theocracy.
‘The Catholic Bishop of Arundel and Brighton, the Rt Rev Kieran Conry, said the church would “have to do something” to protect marriage.’
Like spending more time worshipping at the gloryholes.
They seem to be determined to vindicate Richard Dawkins, Pat Condell, and others.
Religion does NOT hold the answer to a true United Kingdom. It is THE problem! Seperate religion and state!! by way of a republic if required…and the sooner the better! A truly united society cannot hope to evolve while the two are so entwinned. If an individual wants to belive in anything, then your free to do so. But let it be personal and private matter between you and your belief and no one else! Your history of unsubstantuated events, does not give you the right to force it onto others.
The US is a republic and look at the mess they are in with such a “marriage” of church and state it will take generations to unravel. How do you explain The Netherlands, Spain, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, and Canada — all monarchies. Form of government has nothing to do with it.
When I wrote to the equalities office a few weeks ago and asked what they were going to be doing up to March 2012 they replied
“From now until the publication of the consultation we will be meeting with a wide range of people with an interest in this issue, including the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community and religious and non-religious organisations, to help shape the formal consultation document. The consultation itself will be open to the public to comment on.”
IF we are only looking at CIVIL marriages then why do they include ANY!! religious organisations while shaping the formal consultation process. I’m very suspicious as to why any religious org has anything to do with civil marriage for LGBT people considering their past history of what they think of us….
that;s a very good and even valid point John
Who cares if the religious loonies are upset by his comments? Good!! Bunch of cnts that they are.
The church has lost a lot of money because of their intolerance, in a modern society, it seems right to us that we can achieve a marriage of our love for each other. So far as we are concerned we could not care a toss about the church, we have never entered a church building in 30 years and never wish to, even at death! The church should pay their share of council tax on buildings, etc, like the rest of us, if they wish to put their beaks into politics.
The Church is not poor and never will be.
That’s what’s missing with the religious types- they do not understand that two gays can deeply love each other. For them its all a matter of sex. Good for you.
John, even if we disetablished the state cult, it wouldn’t have much of an impact. Look what happened in America, no state cult and yet they’re calling the shots, dictating to the the republican party who are scared of them.
I don’t understand why those religious cults opposed to same-sex marriage would want to be part of the consultation if they have no intention of officiating at them or recognising them. Makes absolutely NO sense.
How about a consultation on getting rid of the state cult and denying any tax payer funding to their schools for starters, all of them who oppose our rights.
The key words in this article are “common understanding of marriage” – thereby hangs the tale! Commonly understood means one section of society’s “interpretation” of Scriptures. There is no mention of the word “marriage” in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible or Koran. The words are “woman of your covenant” in Malachi Ch. 2 verse 16 (if translated correctly) – the transfer of property (the woman) from the father to a man in the community.
OK – if the churches (of whatever persuasion) don’t want to subscribe to this, they are not being compelled to do so, especially in Scotland. This is an enabling piece of legislation which will allow those faith communities who wish to conduct marriages between two sexes or one/same sex/es the option of doing so. Those faith communities which do not wish to so do will not be forced into it.
I don’t know what the big deal is, so I say, “Good for David Cameron” – it’s the first thing he has said since the Coalition came to power with which I agree!
This nation had better wake up, there is no such thing as a religious christian hate group , these are occult members of satanic orders and rituals of men and women gone wrong trying to brain wash society in their false and abusive personal beliefs bad boys and girls who have grown up and in positions going evil like in their bad high school sororities hazing and abusing people in their soriities and some get killed and rapped in those, same bad kids, you went to school with, aint nothing angelic shining off of their asses, David cameron had better stop listening to these creeps who are bad men in robes an bubble gum crosses and still picking their noses and thumbing fingers at people , tring to sexually violate women an children along just like david karesh, David camerson had better focus on doing the right thing which is protect human right and equal rights an humanity everywhere and tell those bad false men with paper certificates any one can get-kiss his ass he’s with equalty
Pegeth, none of them can produce the evidence for their claims. There are currently 4 catholic countries that have same-sex marriage, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Argentina. Not one of their hierarchy has demonstrated overwhelmingly that same-sex marriage has had a negative impact on hetero marriage or child rearing. It has not induced polygamy, incest, bestiality as it has claimed or prevented heteros from marrying or raising children. There is a clear distinction between religious and civil. The sooner they understood the difference, the better.
Congratulations to Cameron for his public support for gay marriage and for risking the predictable backlash from religionists, but why does he promote the expansion of “faith” schools when he must know that those who run them are totally opposed to this?
you know whats going to happen. After the dust settles people move on and surprise surprise, life goes on as well. Hello, look around at the 10 countries that have done it and none have suffered for it.
Not your children really though if you can’t breed are they?
Also, it is proven that paedophiliac homosexual abuse is disproportionate amongst the gay brigade. That is to say if you take a million gays and a million heteros. the gay group will contain the more convicted homosexual child abusers. Even more startling is that catholicism seems to breed homosexuals in the form of paedophile priests
dear me, so few statistics, all wrong – back to the library, keith, and do your homework
keith, where do you get your facts from? How do you know the gay group will contain more convicted gay child abusers? Provide the evidence. In America, government statistics indicate that not to be the case. Heterosexual seem to have a larger percentile of convictions for paedophilia and sex with underage girls in general..
There are many reliable sources. here is one
If your going to find a study carried out by a homophobe what result do you expect.
What an idiot you truely are Keith…. I almost pity you but I seriously can’t be bothered.
Very good dear.
Reliable ? Do you know what grown-ups mean when they talk about peer review ?
Why bother with facts and evidence when you can just tell defamatory lies keith.
In so many ways WRONG. Get some stats to back up your inane blabber. Can’t find them? I wonder could it be that they are not true?
I’m very impressed the way you can
talk thru your arse Keith– how do you do it !
he doesnt have anything else to do with it except expel sh*t.
Not very bright are you?
My son is my own and I’ve never had sex with a woman…. there go spend all day working that out….Idiot!
As for the rest of your comment… laughable coming from someone obsessed with Gay sex and children it seems…. perv!
poor marriage! so feeble, so vulnerable, so in need of protection!
What people dont seem to realise is that this is propaganda, it will never happen, just like Clegg and the Uni fees… he said he would do it, then he went against.
They are doing for propaganda, one they have your votes it wil be dropped. I gaurentee it.
“What people dont seem to realise is that this is propaganda, it will never happen, just like Clegg and the Uni fees… he said he would do it, then he went against.”
I bet you said that about Civil Partnership, decriminalisation and removal of section 28.
You are probably in denial about a lot of things though.
I must admit a bit of surprise at Cameron.
To come out with this statement at a Tory conference in front of all the blue rinsers is unprecedented and very risky for him as leader.
I say good on him for this.
Shame about the economy though.
I am a 19 year old Roman catholic and marriage is number 7 of the 7 Sacraments of the Church a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,
and the two shall become one flesh.”
Genesis 2:24 man and woman a true Holy bond set by Christ marriage is holy and will never be broken or changed husband and wife.
Well that’s you fcked then.
……Jamie pet, when you grow up and learn to think for yourself you will realise that marriage predates the whole Abrahamic fiction thing by several thousand years. The sky fairy crowd, of which you admit to being a member hijacked the idea for themselves as they did hundreds of other successful social ideas that predated their fantasy fiction.
Dump this fantasy and start thinking for yourself for a more fulfilled and happy life before it is too late.
Which pre Abrahamic marital records do you refer to?
Nice twist on Biblical reality. How contorted is your thinking when you manage to mix Christ into Genesis? Go back to the drawing board.
That’s fine, but our law is not controlled by the Vatican. Here in England we broke with the catholic church centuries age and adopted a protestant approach to christianity. The head of our state is the head of a protestant church. Protestantism rejects the 7 sacraments. Sola scriptura, a key part of our state religion is that we should look to the bible as the authority for christianity, the seven sacraments were created by the catholic church and are not listed in the bible. We have freedom of religion in this country though so if you feel you can only marry someone of the opposite sex because of the seven sacraments then so be it, but that isn’t something that can be applied to the law of our country.
Well said, Mallin.
Marriage was before religion so religion has hijacked it believing only they know best. Bit like the Earth being flat and the Earth only being 6,000 years old despite evidence to the contray.
Also civil marriage has nothing to do with religion… so prehaps keep you twisted conks out of it.
It has been said that David cameron, is getting a lot of acklades for standing up for equal rights which is the right thing to do he is becoming very popular world wide, hate groups are always the enemy and hate religions because they continue to want to do evil to others like in history, they will never pat you on the back for doing the right thing or say they like you , they would not like you many times if you where a hater like them, they just use people to help lunge hate attacks at others, for them, you not here to please dangereous people who want to hurt children and families thru assaults and discrimination, and violence and unfair treatment, who in their right minds would want a hater and hate group as freinds to hang out with you ruin your on character, and become monsters instead of decent civil human beings, and repected, because of it, look at the republican party , the ones that are biggots will go down in history know only as a biggot conservative who tried to do bad
ps. Look at the monsters in westboro fake church of satan, do they look and act like real angels of love and kindness bringing the world together in harmony and charity and humanity or do they look like the monsters of violences , and abuse, and terrorism, that they are, common sense would tell you , it takes a demon to try and cause problems for people period that has done nothing to you, but especially, at the most hurtful sacred funerals of others, children are there greiving to, thats assaults , an traumatizing , this democratic party should have already had westboro put on notice that if they bother anyone else an their famiilies and they are not bothering them they would be arested imediatly , for haras an attacks on families , they are acting out vicsous hate tactics, what the hell is wrong with obama, and the task force , the lgbt , aclu they are going to have to take serious actions against westboro,demons,. i quarantee you , if some of those gay bikers need to kick their ass
As a humanity official, you should be doing all you can for the people , their families and the ecomony in a positive way, thats what good officials do, promoting equality, and human rights and humanity, is a top priority in the right direction to fight for humanity and harmony and civil world, hatred is bad for everyone and businesses, and communities, they perputrate evil with it , because it is evil, Obama and the democratic party needs to get the bill passes to help the ecomony and civillians, take the actions needed even thru the democracy human rights court on behalf of citizens of this nation, trying to violate help and humanity from people and the ecomony that is callasping every day and needs recicitating in a positive way not harmful to the families but to their aid and the economies, is vital, and courts and juges and task forces and human rights, should reprimand the republicans who have tried to block every positive legislations that the democratic party tries to pass
I read the headline, which says: “Cameron faces religious backlash over gay marriage comments”. The thing is, does it really matter anymore?
The thing to remember is that a religious “backlash” today is akinn to Maggie T being “savaged by a sheep” as one wag referred to Howes. speech.
Classic! Yet again, an organisation whose marshalls don’t marry dares to lecture the rest of us on what is ‘normal’ in society. Ha! Perhaps if they adhered to what they proscribe for the rest of us, they wouldn’t have the need to abuse children? But then, they don’t marry anymore like they once did purely because the church was losing so much money to widows. How’s that for changing the rules to suit your own ends? If they found a way to make money out of gay marriage, they’d soon become supporters ….
saw the hideous, failed actor, panto dame christopher biggins on the wright stuff claiming civil partnerships are enough and passively suggesting not to rock the boat, Another, limp, homophobic gay traitor.
With their record on child abuse I think Catholic church ‘leaders’ are on thin ice. Thank God (!) this is a secular state! And I am married already to my male partner – Belgium is ahead of the UK!
A religious backlash? What a SURPRISE! *yawn*
Is the church throwing a temper tantrum again, because it can’t have its way?
Ahhh, diddums. Poor little churchy wurchy not getting its own way? Ahhh. What a shame.
Don’t you just love the comments of these dress-wearing, prissy virgins? I know gays who make great parents, it’s all about being of a caring nature, but the clergy seems to be way beyond that.
Whatever the religion, science has always atrophied and society has fossilised when clerics have had too much power. It happened here in the dark and middle ages, and Islamic societies were progressive and pushing scientific boundaries till the clerics took over in the 13th century, and they never really recovered. Giving clerics political power is always a recipe for disaster.
Frankly, it makes me wonder why atheists and agnostics in the UK do not speak up and make the headlines at times like these.