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Government moves to wipe gay sex convictions

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  1. This has taken FAR too long, procedures should be in place for this to be automatic whenever the law changes.

    1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 10:48am

      How do you plan on wiping history from the record books?
      What is done is done. As long as it doesn’t reflect on the persons character since the law was changed, it can simply be marked down as irrelevant and ignored, but not erased.

      1. Things are taken out of peoples records all the time- juveniles for example. Its not hard to do. Obviously it needs to be taken on a case by case basis but if its clearly unfair records can be wiped very easily.

        1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 2:33pm

          They are not removed, they are just restricted access.

  2. Yes… and an apology should be offered to all wrongly convicted of such! Even if it was 40 years ago that it happened.

    1. Interesting thought …. and I am not sure of the legal position on this …

      If the criminal record of a person who had been convicted is being expunged now because the law is now different, would giving an apology mean that the government viewed this as a wrongful conviction and thus would this entitle those who had been convicted under the old draconian laws to compensation particularly if having that conviction could be shown to have impacted on their life in a significantly negative way …

      If the government dont apologise then the view could be that the law was “right” at the time of the convictions but that society has now moved on. The conviction itself was not unlawful when determined although arguably immoral.

      Just thinking out loud, wonder what others think …

      1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 4:48pm

        If that were the case, I suspect the families of former slaves would also be expecting recompense. One is always of the assumption that newer laws that supersede older ones are better and more just, but that isn’t always the case. There is plenty of new legislation, particularly originating from Europe, that is pompous, interfering and restrictive in the extreme.

        One could even look at the fact that homosexuality was decriminalised in 1967, but Section 28 was brought in in the 80′s, and retracted in the 90′s.

        1. I accept that, but then you look at truth and reconciliation processes in South Africa and Northern Ireland and the manner that was handled …. different yes, but comparable …

  3. James Incer 3 Oct 2011, 9:57pm

    Whenever I come on here I hope to be able to write something stupid like ‘all Tories are homophobic’ or ‘this thing of Tories being nice to gays is all an act,’ but they keep doing things that show that really they are very pro-gay rights.

    1. Well, maybe just the current leader. He could get back-stabbed by the b@stards.

    2. Well my gran always said to be sure to look under the pretty icing, you never know whats hidden underneath. Sadly with rather too many of the Tory party I suspect when they have played nice for a few years and got a majority the nastyness will start. Cynical?- yes, but Ive got a long memory and theres a lot of rather unpleasant Tories they are trying to keep under wraps.

      1. I second this, I just say remember what the tories did to this country when thatcher was in power, she brought the country to it’s knees.

        1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 4:52pm

          This country was on it’s knees because of the unions way before Thatcher. She was the one that kicked their arses and got this country fighting again. I agree that maybe the power did go to her head in the end, but she did far more for this country in the long run than many politicians before or since.

          Incidentally, have you noticed the only powerful union left, the tube drivers, are now getting paid £50,000 a year to hold a throttle pedal down and open some fcking doors?

        2. Indeed she did, which people forget was a long way up from where it was before, flat out on the floor for the count!

      2. Actually I’m not so sure that’s fair (and as a lefty I can’t believe what I’m about to write).

        I believe Cameron is making strong moves to try and modernise the Tory party. He knows his position is unstable due to the nature of the coalition and wants to place himself in a stronger postiion in time for 2015.

        Cameron does seem to be trying. We can’t fault them for their work lately however horrible their previous history. I really do sense that the Tories are becoming more proactive in working to assist LGBT people than our traditional allies have been.

        Good on Cameron, I may not agree with a lot of Tory ideologies but I admire his strength to challange his party and he does appear to try.

    3. agree – it is all to easy to be mean spirited. Lets say thanks for the correct things the Tories do. Maybe it’ll encourage them to keep on doing the right things. Can’t do any harm. All power to the non-bastard arm of the Tory party (and to the Liberals with whom they are holding hands)

  4. It is about time and I hope they do the same in the USA.

  5. They should have done that a long time ago, when they new what they where doing was a hate crime against humanity and rights of others, the aclu and other lawyers should sue for their wrongful convictions, and loss of lives all because of klans and arian groups and evil hate religions who where and are hippocrites, the same as they did in history because of their evil bigotry , they wrongfully convicted white and colored or white and spanish couples for interracial relationships and marriages, which was not wrong at all and none of thier business like gay marriages, unlike the pedehpilia and rapes of underage children and wifes, even tortued and beaten by hetersexual men who raped and killed minority kids in history and their families, then put the the men or women in jail for actulaly loving each other for real just out of jelusy of interacial marriages, These people must start paying for their evils of damaged lives they have cost this nation and children and families, the bigots

    1. de Villiers 4 Oct 2011, 10:07pm

      > they wrongfully convicted white and colored or white and spanish couples for interracial relationships and marriages

      > unlike the pedehpilia and rapes of underage children and wifes

      > even tortued and beaten by hetersexual men who raped and killed minority kids in history and their families

      > These people must start paying for their evils of damaged lives they have cost this nation and children and families, the bigots

      I would be surprised in the Right in England ever did all this – even in France the Right has not done such things.

      1. she’s bonkers..

  6. Cambodia Guesthouse 4 Oct 2011, 2:13am

    About time!

    This was just plain WRONG. I also have to say though that the Tory party continues to impress me on actually DOING something about gay rights and equality..

    I have to say though that their plans to scrap the Human Rights Act do worry me.. Why? What’s so wrong with human rights? Are they just against it being ‘imposed’ from Europe? Shame… It SHOULD be!

    Remember, it was only from EU pressure that forced the UK government to introduce an equal ago of consent..

    True equality and equal rights are too important to be trusted to just any ONE government!

    1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 2:58pm

      Yeah right, so they give it to the ECHR who manage to fck it up completely.

    2. de Villiers 4 Oct 2011, 10:08pm

      I am uncomfortable about white, privately educated judges telling us what we can do and what are our rights. I would rather those questions be decided by our democratic assembly.

  7. A significant proportion of these charges would have been for gross indecency.
    As I understand it these will not be wiped out.
    It’s a half hearted measure.

  8. Jock S. Trap 4 Oct 2011, 8:21am

    This is positive progress. I’m pleased they have yet again kept to their word in sorting this and stopping unfair treatment because of these convictions.

    1. Stonewall lobbied the government about this for years too apparently.

  9. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 10:45am

    A crime is a crime if it is illegal when committed. Just because the crime has been rescinded does not nullify the act.

    The way I see it is it is history, and no matter what legislation appears after that, the crime has been committed and what is done is done. These people knew they were committing a crime at the time and took the risk, now they have to live with it.

    These records should only be available to the CPS and legal bodies, and should not reflect on any subsequent reference checks.

    1. Mr. Ripley's Asscrack 4 Oct 2011, 11:35am

      Spanner1960, it doesn’t it make it a fair crime though. Or fair with regards to the sentencing for a criminal conviction. Bear a little thought of the countless gay men (and women) who took (and continue to take) their lives because they can’t go on with the shame associated with being unfairly adjudged to be a sexual deviant and an invert, because a law said it was a crime. I think mostly we are all just doing only what our bodies tell us, so it’s hardly the crime of the century. But I take your point Spanner that a “crime is a crime if it is illegal when committed”. However, the law is a sloth being lead by blindfolded Parliamentarians. Oh, and history isn’t a statement of fact, history is whoever writes it down.

      1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 2:39pm

        As usual, people continue to get emotional and jump on the wagon accusing others of being homophobic, bigoted or whatever. I am playing Devil’s advocate here and trying to be objective from a legal standpoint without being judgemental towards anyone, or the moral views of the majority of people either then or now.

        Nobody said life was fair. I got nicked for accidentally entering the London congestion zone twice and got hit £120 for doing it. Life’s a biatch. The point is, those are the laws we have to abide by HERE AND NOW. In years to come, many may concede it was wrong, but one cannot turn back time.

    2. Jock S. Trap 4 Oct 2011, 11:53am

      “These people knew they were committing a crime at the time”
      -
      So you’d be perfect happy with who you are being a crime would you? The risk they took was to be themselves and why should they have been denied? A very limited view if you ask me. You sound like someone with clear issues of self worth if you think that being Gay was an acceptable crime. I take it you would have been one person that would have been complete happy obeying a law which said you mustn’t be yourself but then going on past comments…
      -
      No one is talking about re-writing history. These conviction still show when anybody looks for a job and that just isn’t right. We have ‘been’ perfectly legal for 44 years now and why should someone be subject to not only be outed to any employer, anybody but have to be judged on something that just isn’t a crime or has no relevence today.

      1. Jock S. Trap 4 Oct 2011, 11:54am

        These convictions Should be removed. We can’t go back in time and change how things were but we damn well have a right to make sure it’s gets better and stays better.

        1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 2:55pm

          Jock S. Trap “We can’t go back in time and change how things were.”
          I agree. So by altering or deleting records is falsifying statements.

          “We damn well have a right to make sure it’s gets better and stays better.”
          I agree to that too.

          “These convictions Should be removed.”
          I disagree. What’s done is done. All we can do now is move forward and hope history doesn’t repeat itself.

          1. Jock S. Trap 5 Oct 2011, 9:35am

            Makes no sense. Why should people be punished for something that is no longer illegal?
            -
            No-one will forget how things were but I see no point in having a conviction based on appalling discrimination, nothing else. It serves no purpose. Remove them now. Delete. People shouldn’t be held to account because people then were so vicious and petty minded.

          2. Tim Hopkins 5 Oct 2011, 12:10pm

            It seems that the records will not actually be deleted, because of the special definition of the word “delete” in the bill, namely: “delete” means record with the details of the conviction or caution concerned—
            (a) the fact that it is a disregarded conviction or caution, and
            (b) the effect of it being such a conviction or caution

            So the record is not actually expunged (which one might say is rewriting history), but it is labelled to say that it is to be disregarded for all purposes in law.

      2. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 2:39pm

        It has never been illegal to be gay.
        Only to act on it.

        1. Jock S. Trap 4 Oct 2011, 2:42pm

          Yeah and by your reckoning they shouldn’t have acted on it?

          1. Spanner1960 4 Oct 2011, 3:00pm

            It’s against the law. Or do you go around breaking the law just because you personally consider it to be “unfair”?

          2. Jock S. Trap 5 Oct 2011, 9:37am

            Ok so just because you chooe not to have a life means all else should do the same.
            -
            Hang on though isn’t that what the Christian bigots have been lecturing to us. Next you be tell us we should all be as ashamed as you are of being Gay.
            -
            The law was wrong and no one should have been punished because they just happened to be Gay. This law was removed so therefore so should all the bigotted convictions.

          3. Spanner1960 8 Oct 2011, 9:14am

            Who said I am ashamed of being gay? I am quite happy being who I am. It is other people that seem to have a problem with being gay, and other gays like you that have a problem with us not all thinking the same way as you.
            Fckwit.

          4. Jock S. Trap 6 Nov 2011, 10:24am

            Your comments show how ashamed you are of yourself.

        2. 1968…Repeal of anti-homosexual laws in the UK. This indicates it was illegal at one point.

          Also if we all sat around obeying outdated and offensive laws then this world wouldn’t turn.

          The world isn’t so black & white Spanner1960. It’s full of complexities and contradicitions.

    3. No, I disagree.

      The only crime is that people were prosecuted for being who they were in the first place.

  10. Mr. Ripley's Asscrack 4 Oct 2011, 10:58am

    Worth the wait, though… if it happens. With full apologies to all those wrongly convicted of practicing their sexuality, Smooge Chin? With glittery, pink umbrellas? Yeah, right. I’m thinking this is not the PM’s personal choice, are we thinking we should be prepared for a little disappointment with gay marriage equality? I know I’m being cynical, but I grew up with the tories in power, and what they say and what they do, are two separate things. They are shadier than a shaded thing in the shadows, dear. Stonewall has lobbied parliament for 8 years for this…? But it only takes a year of religious lobbying to get private schools? Warped democracy. We won’t vote conservative, because we never have…

  11. Dan Savin 4 Oct 2011, 4:25pm

    Its great news IF the convictions these men received for acting on their gay feeling are cleared from their records. It will not change that fact, throughout their lifes they would have had less oppertunities for employment. Many have stated Stonewall campained for years, with no joy. So why now?? could it be the Tory need all the support they can get !. But lets all hold our breath to see if they follow through with this. the Tories do have a habbit like all parties to turn tail and run when it comes to gay rights.

  12. Miguel Sanchez 4 Oct 2011, 5:15pm

    It’s about bloody time

  13. i do not entirely understand this – these provisions have been in the Bill for some time.

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