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New York Christian clerk may go to court over gay marriages

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  1. Oh look, another christofascist trying to shove her narrow bronze age dogmatic nonsense down the throats of those who do not believe. Oh, I would love it if she tried to cite what “god” wanted and opens the door to calling it as a witness. I can see it now – so, kindly prove what god told you do, we’ll wait. And after that, let’s get the opinions of Batman and Gandalf.

    1. “And after that, let’s get the opinions of Batman and Gandalf”

      :D I almost choked on my coffee laughing at that! Funny – but perfectly true too!

      1. Well, I wouldn’t want any of the other fictional constructs to feel left out…and the plaintiff would have as much luck calling them to the stand.

        1. But surely Gandalf is on our side?

          1. Jock S. Trap 1 Oct 2011, 11:38am

            Have a feeling Batman is too with a little help from Robin ;)

    2. Christians are more like communist, http://www.faithandsocialism.org/?page_id=384

    3. Rose Marie Belforti is an activist for the Christian Dominionist movement, represented by the hugely wealthy Alliance Defense Fund, they want the whole world to be run according to their Christian extremist interpretation of Scripture, government policy, business practice, everything including people’s personal lives all under tight theocratic rule, think Uganda.

    4. ” Batman and Gandalf ” lmfao that was the last thing I expected to see in this post lol XD

  2. More anti gay activism by the Alliance Defense Fund Christian extremists, they are represented in the UK by Christian Concern and The Christian Legal Centre both actively manufacturing controversy around the very same issues here using the exact same methods unsurprising as all their lawyers have been trained-up by the Alliance Defense Fund, basically theyare the same outfit.

    1. The Uk groups you mention are in fact the same woman wearing two hats for tax (free) reasons.

      1. Yes, quite right.

        1. Really? Well, I guess she missed the instruction, by Jesus, that she should “render unto caesar that which is caesar’s.” Bloody hypocrite.

          1. It seems quite common now in the USA for charitable status religious organisations to in fact be using tax free funds for political purposes, quite illegally. Even the Catholic Church in some instances. Maybe they should check donations to the NOM, though thats difficult as they have refused to comply with court orders to disclose them and just keep appealing.

            It also seems anyone can claim to be a pastor, genuine or not, and scam people tax free anyway in the USA. It’s a whole industry.

            I do hope UK offshoots have been careful!

    2. Obviously God didn’t talk to her, but the ADF did.

  3. It’s interesting how God’s views are always the same as one’s own.

  4. Ironically these claims that religion trumps secular law will inevitably lead down the slippery slope to polygamy and pagans wanting to marry animals ;)

  5. Which is why it’s concerning that the American Alliance Defense fund has been allowed to intervene in the four cases before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, all these cases have been pushed there by Christian Concern and the Christian Legal Centre with whom they have such very close connections.

    I am referring to Nadia Eweida( BA cross lady) and the other cross wearing nurse both these cases being heard together, as well as the Lillian Ladele (registrar) and Gary McFarlane (counsellor) cases again being heard together.

  6. Tony Konrath 30 Sep 2011, 3:01pm

    The honorable thing to do when you are faced with a dilemma such as hers is to resign.

    1. billywingart 4 Oct 2011, 12:22am

      some christians dont know what the word honor means. They think its their job to decide what God wants.

      Like the judges in Saudi arabia who do exactly the same. Explains why rapes are non existant in that country. Its obviously always the womans fault and she gets whipped. Its never the mans fault he usually gets off with an admonishion to not embarrass the religion.

      or even moreso the nutters who thought that flying airplanes into buildings and blowing up the london subway was doing gods work.

      God – three little letters that have been the curse of mankind from the very begiinings of when we could talk read and write.

      God is dead, Those fools need to accept it. How can you be alive when you never were born.

      Except for example Alexander the great, the greatest warrior of his time (mass murderer) who conquered the whole known world about 380o years ago

      of course he was the son of the War god Thor, pulled out of thor’s forehead (or anus Maybe

  7. Is she still battling on …

    Aside from the dogmatic attitude of her approach and the bigotry she displays, its clear just on reading the explanation of how misconduct by a public servant is defined that she is guilty of misconduct … yet, she wants to take this to court … go girl! Hope you like prison food …

    1. “Is she still battling on …”
      .
      Unfortunately!!!

  8. It shows a certain lack of conviction, that one is not willing to change jobs for one’s beliefs, but rather impose those beliefs on others and seek to get paid for not doing one’s job.

    If you’re a vegetarian you don’t work at a butcher’s and then say you wont touch meat but you still want to be paid.

    1. Surely God wants her in a different job.

  9. “The case is being seen as a test for Christian rights in the US.”

    And that’s the scary thing. Even more frightening is that the UnChrsitian Institute and others are trying to do the same here in the UK – to push through a case that proves that religion must trump all others’ rights.

    This woman is a hateful, misguided bigot. Look at her words in the last paragraph there and try sunstituting ‘black’ for ‘same sex’. Offensive, ignorant scare-mongering. She should be made to do her job or sacked.

    You mention prison, Stu, but I’d like her to receive some counselling too and some education. She’s clearly not all there, and I do NOT mean because she is a Christian. That’s not the problem – her illogical bigotry and belief that she knosw what god wants is the problem.

    1. Alliance Defense Fund trained lawyers, at Christian Concern & Christian Legal Centre here in UK, have manufactured a controversy around the 4 Christian activists who have now taken their cases to the ECHR where The US Alliance Defense Fund has also been granted permission to intervene.
      Some very circular stirring going on here, it’s the Alliance Defense Fund everywhere you look fighting against equal human rights for LGBT’s.

      1. It’s not scary, it’s pathetic, and as doomed as the KKK.

  10. Well fine, let her not do it, on the understanding that for every part of her job she refuses to perform, she will be paid less because someone else will have to be hired to cover for her. Wothehell, you don’t approve of the laws of your country, sure they don’t apply to you!

    1. She could equally have taken it as a sign that god didn’t want her to do this job anymore. My guess is she has been manipulated by those who want to make political gain out of her situation.

  11. Raymond A. Weaver 30 Sep 2011, 3:43pm

    She is paid by the State to do State functions. If she is truly offended, then she should quit her job with them.

    1. Rockland Rocker 1 Oct 2011, 12:16pm

      At the time the legislation was being debated in Albany we were assured that it would cause
      harm to no one. Now that some people are being forced to choose between their job and their
      conscience, a lot of dufus politicians (redundant) are now saying that’s too damn bad. No one
      has attempted to take on the task of justifying the double standard whereby the legislation gives
      protection to religious institutions who can’t bring themselves to believe in SSM, but will provide no protection
      to religious individuals whose conscience cannot permit SSM. It would harm no one to insert a conscience
      clause into the SSM statute.

      1. Except for the fact she’d still be refusing to do what’s part of her duties. I’m reasonably sure the country in question has this thing about seperating church and state, after all.

    2. Agreed! Her job is to sign licenses, not decide who will get them. She knew it was coming and if she disagreed, she had time to apply for a transfer to another department.

  12. ”Ms Belforti compared gay marriages to incest.”

    -No Dear incest is what ya Daddy does to you!

    Unless you folks count the pigs as family – in which case he probably did incest with them criters too -

    Praise be to the big ol pig in the sky who you talk to, pet!

    1. Wow, I am majorly uncomfortable with how many upvotes this post – which appears to be about child rape – has received.

  13. cpt kibbles 30 Sep 2011, 4:01pm

    if 1 is an agent of the state, they represent the state and therfore must abide by the laws of said state, personal beliefs are irrelivent if you choose to work for a government department its that simple whether you agree with that or not, goes hand in hand with an officaly secular government

  14. “I’m not supposed to have to leave my beliefs at the door at my government job.”

    Err, yes you are!!! Your belief if YOUR issue. That has nothing to do with the job you have been appointed to do. If you can’t do that job and let personal issues get in the way, then get out and get someone else in to do it.

  15. What a bigot! Why is religion the hiding place for these freaks? Because we let them get away with it. She is not special, and she can be replaced.

  16. “I’m not supposed to have to leave my beliefs at the door at my government job.”
    Leave them anywhere or not as you please. But they give you no warrant to disobey the law binding on the rest of us or refuse to comply with your contractual obligations as a public servant funded by the tax-payer, more especially in a country which stands constitutionally for the separation of Church and State.
    These people are taking the p**s as usual. It’s getting very annoying.

    1. The law itself is defective as designed. No one has yet provided any justification for the double standard including protection for religious institutions but not religious individuals. The practice of issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples should be optional. Or else the law should allow each city and town to set their own definition of marriage. Of course the reality is we’regoing to continue seeing in action how merciless the secular nihilistic materialistic people actually are.

      1. What you are seeking is legal permission denied to others for believers in invisible spirits to discriminate as they please. There are people who would refuse marriage licenses to mixed-race couples, also on the basis of religious or other conviction. Should their desire to create second-class citizenship for others be accommodated? Secularism is why religious people can worship without harassment from other religious people who happen to have power. Historically, the religious have benefited more than others from secularism. Imagine yourself in modern Iran or 16th century Spain if you find secular culture so distasteful. I suspect you would be very uncomfortable indeed.

  17. Your religious beliefs are to kill men who have sex with men, not deny service to lesbians. NOTHING in the bible says “thou shalt not legally marry lesbians.”

    Surely there are many people who have left their beliefs by the doors. For example, front line soldiers and police men, who would have at some point of time broke the “thou shalt not kill” which is in the ten commandments. Never heard them screaming about their right to have their own beliefs.

    1. Robert White 1 Oct 2011, 2:39am

      Actually that whole latter thing happens all the time with the conscience objector thing in the military. There are non-killing jobs for those people.

      In this case, however, its more like someone who explicitly chose a killing job and then refusing to do the killing but still wanting to get paid.

      Pacifist Assassin? Not a job, or at least not one you should expect to be able earn a living from. 8-)

      Clerks who make policy contrary to the law is also not a job that exists or one that you should expect to earn a living from.

    2. Ian, they are supposed to kill “a male who with other male lays the lyings of a woman”, unfortunately nobody knows for sure what that verse from Leviticus means. “lay ,lyings of a woman” has no obvious translation and the verse is incomplete requiring insertions. As this verse comes immediately after another verse dealing with wrong worship it most likely refers to ritual sex with temple priests and is condemning what the writer considered to be the wrong kind of worship.

  18. “I’m not supposed to have to leave my beliefs at the door at my government job.”

    As a government employee, she is bound by the law to uphold the law of her state. She’s wrong. It’s not a private corporation she’s working for.

  19. She needs to read her Bible before accusing the Lord God of being homophpbic and of making mistakes. Silly woman who listens to Satan.

    1. billywingart 4 Oct 2011, 12:24am

      she is satran in the flesh. the flesh of the vulva by which she should be referred.

  20. Oddly enough, law enforcement does not want to comment.

  21. This woman is in an occult religion of hate like warrens and his evils, either the woman treat others cordianally and courteiously all of the people are be fired from that public job, and do not work a public job, everyone goes grociery shopping and uses other entities and organizations she no it dont miss treat others, because she has a hate problem she is in the wrong

  22. Robin Evans 30 Sep 2011, 9:40pm

    really these christian’s …. its just painful to watch their ignorant tripe ….

    1. Dr Robin Guthrie 30 Sep 2011, 9:54pm

      No.

      It’s painful when they get power.

      Perpetuating their ignorance at everyone else’s expense.

      Politicians on the public payroll pander to these sorcerers of ancient stories
      as sadly they were indoctrinated into the garbage as many are/were.

      You know. I sometimes feel so empowered in my ability to see through all
      the crap I forget that vast swathes of the population are still under its spell.

      One must hide.

    2. “really these christian’s …. its just painful to watch their ignorant tripe ….”
      .
      Painful in its fullness of its Banality!!!

  23. Johnny33308 30 Sep 2011, 11:41pm

    Yes, I’m certain we ALL know what she is saying!

  24. Robert White 1 Oct 2011, 2:33am

    Actually nothing that I know of guarantees her both her job and her faith in this instance because _she_ is refusing to _do_ _her_ _job_ because of her faith.

    Loosing your job because you refuse to do your job is not protected. There is no “you are allowed to keep the job you refuse to do if you refuse to do it because of a reason you think is really good.”

    You are “entitled” to keep your job if you refuse to, for instance, follow an order you know to be illegal.

    This is far different from illegally refusing to follow an order you know to be legal.

    But tell you what, if this woman says its a “god’s law” thing, the I say “she should be allowed to choose between secular law and god’s law concerning her job, but only if _I_ get to pick the god who’s law she must follow. Barring that, STFU and DYJ you stupid attention mongering (rhyms with bore).”

    Signed, some guy in the USA.

    1. David Myers 4 Oct 2011, 10:51pm

      Very well stated! Thumbs up!

  25. I am a gay Christian and I want the courts in America to grant me my religious rights to marry my same sex partner who is also Christian, now how about protecting my Christian religious beliefs (God commanded, Love one another) and my Civil Rights as a gay Christian who wants to get married to my same sex partner in America, in a Christian Church.

    1. Totally!

  26. benpinwang 1 Oct 2011, 6:09am

    As if a child claims that his dead mother wrote in her will that she didn’t want her child to be taught by a black teacher, therefore the kid refuses to go to school. If you want to be paid, you do the job. Otherwise, go to your church and stay there. You do have the freedom of choice given by human laws.

  27. Not too surprised. These games and hijinx are the fundie Xtian way of fighting us every way they can. The case is actually quite clear. She was hired to do a job, she is not carrying out the duties of her job, one of which is to sign and give marriage license to couples wishing to legally wed. Very tired of the Christians and their desire for special opt-outs and rights.

  28. Love the job! Love the paycheck! but not the duties one has to perform! Time to look for a new job… after all if you don’t like the job description your in the wrong job!

    Religion s freedom of choice… but if but if you can’t accept the choice of others when your paid for a job you refuse to do it is time for a pink slip! with no recourse!

  29. Jock S. Trap 1 Oct 2011, 11:37am

    Here we go.. this is disgraceful.
    -
    If she doesn’t want to do the job it’s simple, leave and let someelse willing take over.
    -
    End of.

  30. If she is talking to God she needs professional help is all I can say.

  31. If she doesn’t want to do her job, she can quit and get another. Simple.

  32. Christians and Catholics give millions of dollars all the time now to hate and terrorist groups know as the Right Wing Christian groups like http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/the-hard-liners the Christians and Catholics give these terrorist Christian groups money to then use to stop gay marriage and stop gay people from getting their Civil rights and equall rights.

    1. Thanks for the link Rick, I have visited Southern Poverty Law Centre before, certainly more of the groups they briefly profile do need to be listed as hate organisations.

  33. This woman needs to do the right thing which is to resign. She is an emplyee of the state and as such needs to respect the laws of the land and do as her job requries her to do. If she does not like it, then she should not be in her job.

  34. Does she sign the forms for divorcees?
    Jesus said she shouldn’t, but she probably doesn’t care to read THAT passage – much better to concentrate on one complicated passage in Romans and some mistranslations in 1 Corinthians. Bigotry is always hypocrital.

  35. Sorry, you have a public job. If your beliefs won’t allow you to do that job, then it’s time for another career.

  36. spiritbody 3 Oct 2011, 2:08pm

    If you work in any of the public sectors then you need to accept that your job description will change, cos the needs of the public which your serving, change. If you work in the business of marriage, but you dont want anything to do with gay marriage, then you’ll have to go and find a new way of making a living. One that doesnt impinge on your ethics. Simple enough to me

  37. Scott Lovely 3 Oct 2011, 2:47pm

    It just yet another attempt to bully and demonise gay people, while claiming to be a victim and seeking sympathy. Standard ploy of the fundies.

  38. David Myers 4 Oct 2011, 10:47pm

    I guess, Ms Carmichael, this means God does not want you to continue to be a town clerk then. Better pay attention and resign – God’s watching!

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