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Gay senator David Norris wins nomination for Irish presidency

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  1. paddyswurds 28 Sep 2011, 10:44am

    Senator Norris is set to become the worlds first openly gay head of state in a country once mooted as one of the worlds most conservative Catholic strongholds. Industrial strength paedophilia carried out by clerics and nuns of the Roman cult has in the last 20 years made Ireland now one of the worlds leading anti church states, with the Prime Minister, Enda Kenny openly and blisteringly, criticising the Pope and the Vatican from the floor of Dail Eirann, Irelands Parliment.

    1. I hope he is successful but it’s FAR too early to claim he’s set to become president.

      He has to win the election 1st.

      I’m sure that the rightwing groups are planning a typically christian chaarcter assasination.

      I’m hopeful though.

    2. I hope Paddyswurds is right – but as David rightly says Norris has to win the election now! Lets not count our chickens before they hatch as the proverb says.

      That said, it is encouraging to see that the BBC and Irish Times believe Norris to be the strongest candidate and favourite to win.

      I do worry about dirty tricks.

      Have to say I prefer a gay man who is human and made some decisions that many regard as errors of judgement (with the benefit of hindsight) compared to a former terrorist (even if rehabilitated) or a Eurovision contestant.

      1. paddyswurds 28 Sep 2011, 6:50pm

        ….”compared to a former terrorist (even if rehabilitated)”……Martin Mcguiness would not, if he did become President, be the first “terrorist” (in British terms) to become Head of state. To name but three, Mandella, Kenyatta and Mugabe even if the latter did lose his way in later years. Even Ghandi was termed a terrorist by the British. So your little anti Irish Republican dig holds no water whatever.

        1. It wasnt an Irish dig at all … and if you took it as such then it says more about you than me …

          I have no doubt that there are many others worldwide who have formerly been involved in terrorism who became heads of state (whether or not there has been British influence or not – which I have not commented on in this matter – this is clearly a matter for the people of Ireland and there should be no British invovlement – so take that chip off your shoulder).

          I made no suggestion this was the first, and I had thought about Mandela, Amin, Mugabe, Pinochet and others …

          So please, do not try and say I am anti – Irish, far from it. I merely as an observer think Norris is a better candidate for a wealth of reasons including, (low down on the list) that one is a former terrorist.

          1. paddyswurds 29 Sep 2011, 11:57am

            …. and my point (badly made) was that only the British ever called the Provisional IRA terrorists. One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. The Provisional IRA of which McGuiness was a valued member had the tacit support of the Irish people otherwise they could not have carried on the campaign against the British occoupation for so long. The Irish people voted in a country wide referendum to end the Armed struggle in the GFA and pursue politics. McGuiness was instrumental in that decision and took the gun out of Irish politics once and for all. The Republican movement decided that politics should prevail and McGuiness’ current move is part of that. While i would support Norris my vote will be for McGuiness as his election will be one more step toward reunification of our partitioned country. That is my opinion and not a “chip on my shoulder”

          2. @Paddyswurds

            I wholeheartedly agree that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

            I do think you are disingenuous when you say only the British called the Provisional IRA terrorists. If you need me to I can produce evidence of the EU, UN, USA and even Irish government officials all condemning the provisional IRA and their murderous terrorist acts.

            That is not to say that some (perhaps a majority) of Irish people did not support the armed struggle. There indeed was and arguably remains a level of legitimacy in terms of the ultimate aim of the campaign. Repeatedly we see globally that “freedom fighters” rarely win, and usually reconciliation is the necessary outcome through political machinations.

            I congratulate and endorse McGuinness and his significant contribution to both the peace process and Irish politics. He certainly has had a part to play and is likely to have some role in the future.

            My point is that regardless of the motivation, terrorism is a crime…

          3. … and morally repugnant. It can never be justified to plant explosives targetting civilians. Murder is not a political tool – its wrong. Participation in the planning and organising such heinous acts is equal to carrying out those acts in terms of morality. (whether that be in Ireland, Israel, Basque country, Somalia or wherever).

            My comments about McGuinness being a (rehabilitated) terrorist were not a dig at republicanism – in fact, I probably support republicans more than unionists and strongly believe the future of Ireland should be decided by the Irish.

            I do think though that if you condemn a man (and I appreciate this was not your condemnation) for writing a letter seeking clemency and who has done no other act which can be interpreted as wrong with regards that matter, the moral question regarding that man is somewhat significantly different to the man who was involved in the repeated murder or both civilian and state “targets” for terrorist purposes.

    3. nuns, church, pope, roman cult. translate Paddyswurds message and u get ‘feck, drink, erse, feck’

      1. I took the more general message of welcoming Norris as a potential President of Ireland who would not be influenced by the “diplomacy” of the RC church. That should be welcomed. Surprised you find it negative …

        1. Some one is using my name
          Could the person using JohnK – choose another name.
          I would like to reiterate that the above message was not written by me!!!

          1. I was surprised …

    4. Bouncerman 28 Sep 2011, 3:44pm

      I knew David in the early 1990’s when he headed a speciality care group in a well known organisation.

      He is a kind, thoughtful and understanding gentlemen; I wish him the very best with his fight for the Presidency.

    5. Some one is using my name
      Could the person using JohnK – choose another name.
      I would like to reiterate that the message aimed at paddyswurds was not written by me!!!

      Post a reply →

    6. IN LIGHT OF THE IMPOSTER using my name and taking pot shots at paddyswurds.
      I would like to say that I value the contributions that paddyswurds makes to this site, and that I see this person as a valued member of our community.
      With regards the thread on David Norris, I see this developement as a postive move, and I am looking forward with excitment to see what happens
      Fingers crossed so to speak

    7. Paddy, from here in the UK, looking at the photo of David Norris and hearing that he’s gay, one can easily feel very very supportive of him and hope he will succeed.

      But see him on television and listen to him on the radio, and one realizes instantly that he behaves in an embarrassingly ingratiating manner that puts one in mind of a male version of Mrs. Thatcher!

      Ireland simply CAN’T have David Norris as its President. Some other gay man, yes, but NOT him. We don’t want the world tittering at us, do we?

  2. I am ecstatic to hear that such a charismatic and intelligent man who has been through the mill and fought so hard as made it throught to the elections. Just one last battle and we can see history in the making.

    1. I agree that he is intellgent but I hope he’s had some major media training to stop him putting his foot in his mouth all the time.

  3. Jock S. Trap 28 Sep 2011, 11:01am

    Well, here’s hoping he wins the election.

    1. I hope so but I expect the smear campaign by rightwing religious groups to intensify over the coming weeks.

      I think it will be between Norris and Higgins (McGuinness has support but is even more divisive than Norris; Mitchell is like a glass of flat, warm Diet Coke so he won’t succeeed. The other 3 nobodies don’t have a hope – especially Dana – the Jesus freak with All Kinds of Everything that people never, ever wanted.

      Norris for the Aras.

      1. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 9:52am

        Yes agree, I bet the campaign will be a dirty smearing one. Lets hope people see through it and get fed up with it and vote for the better person..

  4. Senator Norris was the person who took the Irsh government to court over the ban on homosexuality. It was thanks to his case that homosexuality was decriminalised in Ireland.

    During this case he received legal support from Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese, both of whom went on to be Irish presidents.

  5. Mike Homfray 28 Sep 2011, 11:46am

    It would help if Labour would give him their support or suggest transfer of votes

    1. In fairness, Labour’s candidate Michael D Higgins called on Labour members of Dublin City Council to facilitate Norris getting onto the ballot paper. I think it’ll actually come down to Norris’s transfers electing Michael D. I’d be happy to see either as President though I think Norris’s election would be such a significant statement for the modern Ireland.

      1. Norris to Higgins: ‘You’re a real democrat, Michael…I thank you’
        Tuesday, September 27, 2011 – 06:41 PM

        Senator David Norris has paid tribute to Presidential rival Michael D Higgins after Mr Higgins asked the Labour Party members of Dublin City Council to give their backing to Sen Norris.

        When the two met at the council offices this evening, Senator Norris said: “What can I say? You’re a real democrat Michael…You’re a generous, decent and good man, and I thank you.

        “I hope it’s one of us, and if it’s either of us, we’re going to have a great President.”

        In response, Mr Higgins said: “It’s about democracy, David…I think the people will benefit from a debate on the issues. I wish you well.”

        Read more:

  6. I am sure the vile old queens in catholic hierarchy will do everything in their power to smear and/or destabilise his campaign. It really is the most terrible irony. But, thankfully, not lost on the Irish electorate nowadays.

  7. “Mr Norris 67, pulled out of the race in August over controversy surrounding a letter of support he had written for a former partner who was convicted of raping a 15-year-old boy.”

    The word “statutory” is missing from the article.

  8. Delightful

  9. isnt icelands Prime minister Johanna Sigurdardottir gay?? Good luck to the guy, im sure the Irish Catholic Mafia will set ninja nuns on him before he wins though…

    1. jamestoronto 28 Sep 2011, 1:17pm

      Yes she is gay but she is the head of government not head of state. Iceland has a president as ceremonial head of state.

    2. paddyswurds 28 Sep 2011, 1:43pm

      In the minds of the Catholics of Ireland the “catholic mafia” have beheaded themselves by their tacit support of the vile clerics who raped and tortured the children of Ireland for centuries. No one in Ireland is listening anymore and the declining numbers in churches is stark evidence of this. Senator Norris is leading the fray in all the polls published up to , even before winning nomination. Before he restarted his campaign there was a clamour for him too re-enter. however there will be and he is ready for the mudslinging that will be a great part of the next month, particularly fron the “Blue shirt” Fine Gael, the current party of government and backers of the “vanilla” Gay Mitchell.

      1. feck erse feck gurrrrrrls drink

        1. Some one is using my name
          Could the person using JohnK – choose another name.
          I would like to reiterate that the above message aimed at Paddyswurds was not written by me!!!.

      2. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:06pm

        That went straight over my head

      3. .Some one is using my name!!!
        Could the person using JohnK – choose another name.
        I would like to reiterate that the above message aimed at Paddyswurds was not written by me!!!

        1. We gathered that John :) No one would suspect you of all people of a comment like the one above.

      4. Paddy, having listened to Gay Mitchell’s intentions for the Presidency, I believe he will achieve things, while David Norris would adore oiling himself around polished floors playing the swank, drink in hand. Wouldn’t you rather a doer, rather than someone playing a regal role? We shouldn’t be biased towards people of homosexual orientation.

    3. @Martyn

      You are correct, but Sigurdardottir is not head of state of Iceland

      As for ninja nuns, not sure the RC church could be motivated to battle given they has a Taisoeach who stands up on moral grounds against the church and a potential President who is unlikely to bow down to RC demands.

      1. If you believe that Norris or any other candidate will not cow down in front of the church, you are sadly mistaken. Just watch and see after the election.

        1. WIth a Taosieach who has stood up to them and a President who will not be endorsed by the RC church, its clear that the RC churches ability to maneourve will be limited and restricted.

    4. Some one is using my name
      Could the person using JohnK – choose another name.
      I would like to reiterate that the above message aimed at Paddyswurds was not written by me!!!

  10. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 1:07pm

    Do we really want someone who wrote a letter of support for someone who raped a 15 year old boy as the world’s first gay male head of state? A gay head of state would be great, but he should have a clean record.

    1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 1:10pm

      This really will do gay rights no good. We need the first gay head of state to be someone like the Parisien mayor – clean record – no skeletons. Getting someone like this elected will set back our cause.

      1. I agree completely.

        Norris is confirming a lot of old stereotypes in Ireland whihc is not oging to help anyone LGB in Ireland.

        1. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 9:59am

          The ‘old stereotype’ is only for those that believe in the ‘old stereotype’ not for the rest of us who think for ourselves.

          1. @Jock S Trap


            Strangely some of those arguing the point with reference to old stereotypes try to suggest they are of young mind … Given their mindsets I see their attitude as belonging to blue rinse and pearl and twinset era

    2. “A gay head of state would be great, but he should have a clean record.”

      The office of president is not for just the “un-blemished”, its for the experienced.

      And besides, he offered a character reference for this ex-partners, not condoning statutory rape. Nothing illegal about that.

      1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:38pm

        So a heterosexual man who wrote a character reference for someone who committed statutory rape would also be a suitable candidate for President? Why is it that so many queens are so fogiving of other queens, like we have the right to act in a certain way just because we’re oppressed.

        As the first gay male head of state, this guy would make headlines, and ANY imperfection, even very minor, will be used by the social right to judge all gay men – and that won’t be helpful. We need to get smarter about promoting our rights – and leaping to the defence of a man like Norris’ right to run for Presidency isn’t being smart.

        1. “So a heterosexual man who wrote a character reference for someone who committed statutory rape would also be a suitable candidate for President? ”

          Gay Mitchell wrote similar letters for murderers – that meet your stupid requirements?

          1. In the same way that someone who wrote references for terrorists to a court but condemned the terrorism – they would be a suitable president (dependant on other aspects of their background and character)

        2. “and leaping to the defence of a man like Norris’ right to run for Presidency isn’t being smart.”

          And last time I checked, Ireland was a democracy – so worry not about it, democracy will be the judge – NOT you (thankfully)

          1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 3:07pm

            I am sure it will, and fingers cross, he loses in a big way.

          2. “I am sure it will, and fingers cross, he loses in a big way.”

            Yawn. And if he wins, you pull your fingers out of your arse and uncross them.

          3. Regardless of the result, the fact Norris is an openly gay candidate who has respect internationally is both standing and regarded by leading commentators as the favourite to win, is a situation I didnt think would happen in Ireland for quite some time.

            I do hope he does win and the small minded people who try to poison his image will be seen as having a discredited, outdated mindset. If they find something sinister in him providing a character reference where the man also categorically states his revulsion at rape then the poison is not in Norris but in themselves.

          4. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 9:57am

            Indeed it is for Ireland to decide but lets remember if he does get in it will be on the merit of the Irish people not just the LGBTQI community. He’s clearly got this far by the people of which some may be LGBTQI.

      2. Absolutely, Paul

        Norris did not condone the actions taken by his ex partner but sought to provide a character reference (which I am lead to understand is common is Irish jurisprudence).

        Norris seemed to see the wrong that the other man had done but was able to identify that there were other aspects to his character that the court should consider when reaching a decision as to how to sentence. That is not incompatible with being flagrantly against rape.

    3. Would you rather have an ex terrorist, an ex Eurovision winner or someone incompetant of leading … those are the other options …

      As for his letter of support, there are many views on that … Whilst not convinced it was a mistake – how Norris handled the media relating to the fall out was misjudged. Even if the letter was a mistake, then surely you would rather have a leader who admits misjudgements, is honest about their conduct and is prepared to defend their own actions. Humans made misjudgements and mistakes. Politicians are human. Leaders stand up for their actions. Norris has shown he is prepared to do just that.

    4. He wrote a letter of support appealing for clemency from the court in the sentencing of someone he cared about. He did not try to interfere with the law.

      That is neither a crime, nor bad judgement. It is being a good friend.

      POliticians do it all the time.

      Plus this non-story was known 4 years ago.

      It was ONLY resurrected when the right-wing groups started their homophobic smear campaign against Norris.

      It’s typical – gay candidate and lo and behold the bigots try to link the candidate to paedophilia.

      1. @David

        Those are the facts and those who see otherwise are either politically motivated in their poison towards Norris, homophobic or so easily led by those who are that this renders their argument redundant.

      2. Pat-C-0012 29 Sep 2011, 9:22am

        What a load of nonsense. There are plenty of gay men who are opposed to Norris. Opposing him doesn’t make you homophobic. Gay men LOVE to hide behind homophobia every time someone legitimately criticises them.

        1. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:02am

          Your right but clearly their are clearly plenty of Straight Irish people who do support this man for President. I doubt he’d have returned after the public smearing if that were not true.

        2. Pat, its interesting the arguments that are given to you that you choose to ignore and to continue with your blind rhetoric …

          Norris has widespread support of LGBT and heterosexual people from the accounts I have read and from speaking to a friend in Ireland. Useful since he is not elected by a solely LGBT electorate

    5. Will you please look up the meaning of the phrase ‘statutory rape’? You may find it’s not quite the same thing as rape.

  11. The plebs will be out in their droves voting for McGuinness though. There are plenty of old school Republicans who would love to see a ‘Feiner’ on the steps of the GPO giving a speech during the 100 year anniversary of the 1916 Rising. They’re practically frothing at the mouth at the prospect. Norris’ only hope is he might be more of a household when it comes down to it on election day.

    1. According to the Irish Times and BBC McGuiness is an outsider

      1. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:03am

        Lets hope, eh!!?

    2. McGuinness has loyal supporters for sure but his past means he has very little crossover appeal (Ireland has a PR system meaning that 2nd and 3rd preference votes will be needed to win.)

      1. paddyswurds 29 Sep 2011, 12:35pm

        It is more than likely that McGuiness will win in the first round by such a margin that consequent preferences won’t be sufficient to overtake him…..His engineering of the Peace process with Gerry Adams and John Hume has not and won’t be forgotten by the Irish people. Even the Unionistts and Loyalists are rooting for him.

        1. I have to bow down to your superior knowledge on the likely polling outcomes in the Irish presidential electorate.

          That is not how respected commentators are interpreting things currently, however …

          1. paddyswurds 29 Sep 2011, 4:21pm

            ….those same commentators gave Gerry Adams a snowball in hells chance when he ran for the Oreachtas seat in Co Louth earlier this year…. if these “experts” are writers for the Irish Times or Irish Independent then i’d advise switching to the China Daily as you would probably get a more unbiased line in regard to McGuiness than from either of these two right wing rags…..

          2. I had been looking at commentary from BBC, RTE and Irish Independent …

  12. I disagree with Norris being a condidate.

    The Norris condidancy will set back the opinions that Irish people have of LGB people by decades by attaching the old stereotype of LGB being a danger to kids, due to his support of someone who was convicted of trying to procure a 15 year old for sex in Israel, which at the time was decades ahead of Ireland in gay rights.

    To make matters worse both Dana Scallon and Martin McGuiness from Derry are also candidates. Dana Scallon supports everything the catholic church says without question and mc Guiness was a major player in the IRA. Ireland does not need another reactionary lunatic such as Scallon or McGuiness who believes that all Irish should irish dance at cross and pick spuds, while cowtoing to the catholic church as president, to hold Ireland back, again.

    It is almost as thought there was a competition to find the most useless people with the least point to there existance and then appoint them to be a candidate to be president of Ireland. Every single candidate this time, is a waste of genetic material.

    Who ever wins this competition to obtain a salary of 250k € per annum while president of Ireland and a pesnion from the moment they leave the job regardless of age of 150k € per annum, has to represent all of the people of Ireland, regardless of colour, religion, age, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, sex, etc.

    Hasn’t Ireland suffered enough with paedophile priests, cover ups, terrorism, economic chaos, job loss’s and home repossesions? I dread to think what the international opinion of Ireland will be if Norris, McGuiness or Scallon, win the presidency.

    1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:09pm

      I agree – his candidature is a disaster for gay rights. He supported a rapist – and now this is going to be the world’s first gay head of state, if elected. What a disaster.

      1. Well, it will be for the people of Ireland to see past an error of judgement if they decide to. Bear in mind this man forced the Irish government to drop the criminality of homosexuality and was instrumental in pushing for civil partnership and equality legislation – hardly what I would call “a disaster for gay rights”

        What he did is was NOT illegal. He did not support or condone the crime, just the character of the defendant. At best this is a lapse in judgement.

        You cries of “disaster” is nothing sort of histrionics without any understanding of the facts. Grow up.

        1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:43pm

          The facts here are simple – he provided a character reference to a rapist. Not someone who did drugs, not someone who was caught speeding – but a rapist.

          1. “The facts here are simple”

            The fact is not that simple:- he placed a character reference for his ex-partner. I’ve seen mothers in court begging for the lives of their son’s who are the rapist. Norris did NOTHING illegal, that is the fact. You really need to get your arse out of the black and white “its that simple” square, its doing you no favours.

          2. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:55pm

            “I’ve seen mothers in court begging for the lives of their son’s who are the rapist.”. And how many of those mothers went on to run for Presidency?

          3. “And how many of those mothers went on to run for Presidency?”

            Why, are they not allowed to? A convicted terrorist is running a campaign in Ireland for president, and you’re concerned with Norris??? Have issue much?

          4. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 3:06pm

            “Why, are they not allowed to? A convicted terrorist is running a campaign in Ireland for president, and you’re concerned with Norris??? Have issue much?”

            Not sure whether you noticed – but this article was about Norris – not the other candidates – they are nuts as well!

            I guess Norris fits in.

          5. A character reference …

            The same thing others have done for murderers, drug dealers, terrorists etc …

            A character reference means he believes there are other aspects to the mans character than the one offence he is deemed to have perpetrated. Logic would suggest that most people have more than one aspect to their character. Natural justice would suggest that courts should have all available information in order to make judgements on appropriate sentences. That includes balancing prior character and behaviour with the offence (it may not actually reduce the sentence but it should be considered). To suggest that he should not have provided this information when asked would be to deny that person access to justice. Now, whilst I condemn rape and for example terrorism – I also believe passionately that all people facing trial deserve fairness and justice – otherwise our society is no better than those who perpetrate such acts.

            Norris should be congratulated for his actions.

          6. Padriac Moran 28 Sep 2011, 4:07pm

            “they are nuts as well!”

            You should run so, Pat, you seem more reactionary and melodramatic than rational.

          7. Gay Mitchell wrote a plea for clemency for a convicted murderer. Just saying.

          8. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:06am

            No, he provided a character reference of someone he knew. Stop smearing. This is the problem.

          9. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:07am

            A character reference not a character assassination like you seem too happy to give.

        2. Jock S. Trap 28 Sep 2011, 3:27pm

          Totally agree, Will!! Good comment.

      2. But you see the militant gays on here don’t see that and don’t want to. They’d prefer bury their heads in the sand or up the hole of a politician who advocates the ‘old Athens’ approach to gay relationships. To them this is a victory for gay rights regardless of the integrity of the candidate.

        1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:45pm

          Of course, and they are a bunch of idiots. So determined are they that there should be a gay head of state that they don’t care that the man could do enormous damage to gay rights advances.

          1. “that the man could do enormous damage to gay rights advances.”

            Repetition of a vacuous statement is not a valid substitute for fact

          2. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:58pm

            Dismissing me as vacuous just because I stand up against the candidacy of this idiot Norris. Nice one. You sound like a tea party activist.

          3. “You sound like a tea party activist.”

            And you sound like an idiot trapped in an endless loop.

          4. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 3:03pm

            “And you sound like an idiot trapped in an endless loop.”.

            I guess you can’t take criticism. Norris is an idiot – end of. His ideas are out of date. Fortunately, he is part of a generation of gay rights activists that will soon be irrelevant. I am guessing you’ll soon be irrelevant as well.

          5. @Pat – C – 0012

            Pot Kettle Black

            You complain about being dismissed as vacuous and being caught in a loop (what I would consider to be a considered critique of your argument).

            However, you seem content to call those who support Norris as idiots, “nuts” etc

            You also seem unwilling to listen to the fact that Norris’ actions (not the rapists actions) are not the polar black and white that you try and portray but have aspects of both. I can see how genuinely he wanted to support his friend and ex partner and I think his determination and resilience in doing so demonstrates leadership and that none of this is incongruous with being Irish President.

          6. “I am guessing you’ll soon be irrelevant as well.”

            LOL! Is that it? Is THAT supposed to be a response? The only thing irrelevant here is you and your borderline meant health issues when it comes to “end of” statements. What are you, 5 years old? No one says things like that outside a playground! Seriously, get a life Pat, you sound like a tiresome and pompous uneducated little b!tch.

            Try facts next time, there’s a good boy. And maybe then the other adults will play nice with you.

          7. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:12am

            Just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t make them ‘a bunch of idiots’.

            What it actually does is make you look totally immature and unable to conduct yourself in debate.

        2. To ascertain that Norris’ only accolades is in gay rights shows a lack of understanding of the reality. Norris is not about qa victory for “gay rights” or some fictitious and paranoia-induced delusions about “gay militia”, its about his record supporting human rights. Give the Irish electorate more credit then I give you.

          1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:54pm

            You really don’t get it do you? This isn’t just about the Irish electorate. It is about the global electorate. This man, if elected, will be the world’s first elected gay male head of state, and he would be someone who wrote a letter of support for a rapist. This is about how gay men will be seen globally, not just in Ireland. If the US’ first black President had been someone who wrote a letter of support for someone who committed “statutory” rape, how do you think that would impact the image of black people? Very badly, I would think. There is a bigger picture here, and I don’t know a gay man under 35 who thinks Norris being elected is good. Only those over 35 appear to. Norris is irrelevant to young gay men – a symbol of an era ended. He is not the right person to be the world’s first gay male head of state.

          2. “It is about the global electorate.”

            Er, not its not. Its an Irish election.

            “This is about how gay men will be seen globally”

            Only by people like you, not normal people.

            “President had been someone who wrote a letter of support for someone who committed “statutory” rape”

            I’m sick of correcting this. Go educate yourself, its becoming tiresome. Are you stupid?

            “and I don’t know a gay man under 35 who thinks Norris being elected is good.”

            Really? Funny the polls disagree with you.

            “Norris is irrelevant to young gay men”

            Young gay men are not the entire populous of Ireland, so irrelevant. The position of president is for all of Ireland.

            “He is not the right person to be the world’s first gay male head of state.”

            Than don’t vote for him. If you’re not Irish, then its not your concern, is it? D-e-m-o-c-r-a-c-y.

            Seems you’re the one that doesn’t get it….

          3. Padriac Moran 28 Sep 2011, 4:11pm

            LOL @ Will!

            Great comment. Spell it out nice and simple for Pat here, its the only way he’ll learn!!! LOL! Not that I have much hope in that from what I can see, his views are more theatrical than logical.

          4. Er its an Irish election …

            but equally I dont think its an unusual characteristic of the Irish people that they will be able to see beyond the smog that these lies are and see the honesty and integrity of Norris …. I am sure many people in the global village will be very pleased with to congratulate Norris, should be win the honour of being President. They will see him for being a man who believes in human rights, justice, fairness and honesty and is prepared to defend his opinions and decisions whilst demonstrating with clarification if there is some ambiguity. Norris is the future of modern Ireland.

          5. Fabulous comment, Will

          6. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:16am

            What absolute nonsense Pat-C…

          7. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:18am

            Excellent comment Will!!!

          8. No Pat c 0012 is a Blue shirt Fine Gale supporter. She wants the vanilla Gay Mitchell to winn and is bitter cause she knows he hasn’t a prayer. Fine Gael supported the Fascists in the 30s.

          9. Well before you generalise for a group of the community how about you try asking more people than just your friends, I am an 18 yr old gay man and I think Norris seems like a good candidate and I wish him well in his campaign.

          10. Though actually I’m not Irish so you may have a point with the Irish youth (though I doubt they differ that differently to the youth in britain).

        3. To clarify, I do not condone the re-interpretation of rape or child abuse as anything other than a heinous crime. The “Athens” clarification is an interesting academic discussion (strangely Norris was an academic at the time he wrote it) – nonetheless in the real world we have to deal with offences.

          Also, in the real world we have to deal with honesty and integrity which acknowledges the human state and emotion. Norris did the right thing to provide his opinion on the character of a friend and ex partner at the request of their legal team so that a court could make a decision on the basis of all the material available.

          Norris clearly has articulated that he does not support rape, yet some have such low levels of integrity that they seek to propagate these lies and refuse to consider the full picture.

        4. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:14am

          your forgetting one thing though JohnK… Ireland isn’t just made up from people of the LGBTQI community. We do vote but we are only a part of it, not all of it. Clearly the Irish people wish this man to be in the running and who are we to object. It is their election for their country.

      3. Jock S. Trap 28 Sep 2011, 3:25pm

        Yeah, I don’t see that. People will vote for who they think is best and he wouldn’t even be a candidate if people didn’t think he was worth it. Lets remember his up for this important role for the people of Ireland and who put him there where others besides people from the LGBTQI community.

        He gives the campaign some creditibilty and I, for one hope he succeeds. He’d be good for Ireland and the world stage.

        1. Well said Jock S Trap

          He is not a false fabricated politician like the traditional politicians so perhaps he’s a threat?

          As it is, I personally see that as adding value to him particularly in the style of the Irish Presidency

      4. Jock S. Trap 29 Sep 2011, 10:05am

        I’m sure he’s standing for all not just Gay rights. Just because he happens to be Gay doesn’t mean all he’ll do is for Gay people. Like any country it’s made up of many groups and I’m sure what he’ll do he’ll do for Ireland.

        Your smearing though shows you up for who you are.

    2. I have more trust in the people of Ireland to see Norris for what he is, an honest man who supported the rights of his friends to have a character reference in a trial whilst condemning rape.

      I think the Irish people will relish having a leader who will not be influenced by Catholic rhetoric.

      I think the Irish people will see Norris as a decent bloke, not an overtly over political person in terms of dogma and partisan issues and that this will be a breathe of fresh air.

      I think many Irish people will see the peddling of the innuendo about this character reference for what it is – smoke and mirrors and gossip.

  13. I see from this site alone, we have the pseudo-religious in to demean Norris on one incident, one error of judgement, ignoring Mitchell and the others doing the VERY SAME THING.

    In a word, hypocrisy. But is that a surprise?

    1. Pat-C-0012 28 Sep 2011, 2:59pm

      Nothing to do with ignoring the others. This article was about Norris, so that is who we’re commenting on. The others are all nuts as well. That doesn’t make Norris right: he is still a nutter.

      1. Your choice not to vote for him, but do not demean a man character by lying about the circumstances as you have done above. What he did was not smart, but its was not damming. He did what he did in good faith. He has clarified his point on paedophilia and rape as unacceptable, and has been stated here, its for the Irish People to decide. That is democracy.

        1. Absolutely Sean – and I am sure the Irish people as a whole are more balanced and thoughtful than some of the vile rhetoric exposed on this discussion

      2. A “nutter” well if that is the extent of your ability to debate, it demonstrates wwith clarity the competance of your assessment of what Norris actually did or did not do, and the fact you probably lept to conclusions purely when you heard the word rape and support in the sentence, didnt look at the other words – ie supports man accused of rape in character reference, not supports the man having committed rape – there is a difference and its not subtle. If you think character reference provision is wrong, then your understanding of justice and fairness is prehistoric. I am pleased that the Irish people will have the chance to vote in a man of passion and fairness and who stands by those he cares about (which includes the people of Ireland) whether they fail or not. That takes guts, character and integrity in far more measure than those who read tabloid press and condemn!

        1. Padriac Moran 28 Sep 2011, 4:14pm

          “it demonstrates wwith clarity the competance of your assessment of what Norris actually did or did not do” – Pat here doesn’t care about the truth or the facts of the situation, only the shrill “won’t someone please think of the children” nonsense. He needs to grow up

          1. Those people who are more considered and are not shrill and listen and evaluate and find the facts, actually end up protecting children more because they do not make knee jerk reactions and they evaluate risk more effectively.

            Pat clearly does not care what the truth is … and his argument has been exposed for being as redundant as it is …

    2. I am an athiest. I consider support in any capacity for the judeo-christian.islamic-satanist ideologies to be an extreme mental disorder due to them supporting an invisible, vengeful sky fairy. I am far from religious.

      As for the candidates running for president in Ireland. They are the worst bunch since De Valera got elected president in 1959. Any of these candidates is a disaster for not only Ireland, but Europe.

      Mc Guinness might have no support in Dublin where all the polls are done, but outside Dublin where the majority of people live he has real support. Mc Guinness is no progressive.

      Scallon has viewpoints that even the BNP would step back from. Just think Al Queda and the Inquisition and you will get a clear idea of her viewpoints.

      Norris is a part of the Dublin establishment. He was appointed to his role and never elected. Outside Dublin he has no support.

      Norris will be used as a vehicle to attack LGBT rights. Ireland still has not got gay marriage which is a must for ordinary gay people to have families and to live a normal life. The Catholic Church will use Norris’s statements that the ancient Greek way of sex with a man was a good way to bring a boy into manhood in his previous Magill interview. On top of that Norris has tried to defend a man who was convicted of statuatory rape of a 15 year old boy who was less than half his age.

      Norris is the worst possible candidate form an LGBT point of view. There are far better people in the LGBT community in Ireland who not only have a clean background, but would actually make really good candidates.

      Literally in this presidential election the worst possible candidates from each section of society are standing for election instead of the best possible.

      Going by the condidates annoucned so far, whowever wins this election, is a disaster for Ireland.

      1. Padriac Moran 28 Sep 2011, 4:05pm

        “He was appointed to his role and never elected”

        Are you utterly unaware of how the electoral system for Seanad Éireann works? Of course he was elected.

        And you can protest all you like, as someone else already said here, its in the hands of the Irish people, not the petty minded on an internet site.

        Nothing you have said leads me to believe any one of the candidates will be a “disaster” for Ireland, don’t be so bloody melodramatic.

        1. If McGuinness gets 15 to 20% of first preferences, it’ll be mission accomplished for Sinn Féin to widen their appeal and get a few Fianna Fáil votes. He will be transfer repellent though and has NO chance of becoming president.

  14. Its a 7 horse race with only three standout candidates; David, Martin and Michael D Higgins. Their vote ratio will taper out so there will probably be no landslide election. Michael D is topping many polls. McGuinness is very popular with certain factions and has plenty of support. The remaining 4 candidates including Dana will soak up some stray votes. Its not cut and dry yet, someone said BBC suggests David is in the lead- that’s not really true. Michael D Higgins has had no whiff of scandal about him and insiders are saying he’s the man to beat with McGuinness and David scrapping for second place.

    1. Helen in Ireland 28 Sep 2011, 10:58pm

      At last, someone mentions Michael D! I have read a number of articles and comments, wherein many second preference votes will end up on Mr Higgins tally. He played a very strategic move yesterday when he asked Labour councillors in Dublin not to block Senator Norris’s advancement to the ballot. In doing this Mr Higgins was shown to be a gentleman as well as astute politician.

      Michael D is a strong supporter of LGBT rights, as is Mary Davis. I just hope that Gay Mitchell gets nowhere NEAR the Aras – he is an unmitigated bigot from a party whose spokesperson for Equality does NOT believe it applies to the Irish LGBT community.

      I would have loved for Senator Norris to have been President – I believe his appeal for clemency for his former partner was well meaning but misguided. I sadly fear that the smear campaign has left too much mud there though, and the Senator’s genial bluff demeanor is coming off too much as arrogance…

      1. paddyswurds 29 Sep 2011, 12:42pm

        Michael D Higgins is , altho he woould make a good president, not suitable because of his advanced years. he will be &1 by the time he would take office and 78 by the time his first term is finished. The Irish Presidency is a lot different to what it was when when Mary Robinson took office and she changed it completely from a rarely seen figurehead to a presidency that took Ireland on to the World stage. McAleese carried on where Robinson left off and even developed the role further. The Irish Presidency now requires someone with vigor, stamina and warmth and McGuiness or Norris would fit the bill admirably…..

  15. Yes he can!

  16. What people need to remember that while the President is the head of state, it is a largely ceremonial role.

    One of his/her jobs is to sign parliamentary legislation into law. One of his/her only REAL powers is to refer legislation to the Supreme Court to test its constitutionality. Other than that his/her job is to meet visiting dignitaries and to liaise with the public and charities.

    Since 1990 there have been 2 presidents – Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese – both of whom helped David Norris in his case to decriminalise homosexuality.

    It is refreshing to see (so far) that the Irish public see the witch-hunt/smear campaign against Norris for what it is – a witch-hunt.

    Norris’ human rights and charity work makes him the best candidate – not his homosexuality.

  17. There’s a large number of posts referring to Senator Norris’s ex-partner, for whom he perhaps unwisely provided a character reference, as a ‘rapist’.

    Just to be clear, ‘statutory rape’ is the term used in some countries to refer to sex with minors, whether consensual or not. However distasteful you may consider the offence, it is completely different from rape and shouldn’t be confused with it.

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