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Transgender woman says she has been left ‘half man’ by NHS surgery refusal

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  1. I don’t know anything about this case other than what’s stated in the article. However, not all small breasted women (by birth) get augmentation on the NHS. It might be possible that if she was the size that she is but born in a female body she wouldn’t get what she wanted either. It might therefore not be a particularly anti-transgender people.

    By the same token, FTM transexuals and those born as men with small external genitalia aren’t paid for by the NHS, and penis size is as much a fixation of masculinity as breast size is of femininity.

    1. You are quite correct Ian and I recently had breast augmentation myself which I had to pay for. I just had to save up and pay for it like thousands of other natural born women. I was a member of a web forum which gave help and guidance to women contemplating breast enhancement surgery and it wasn’t easy for the majority of them to fund this operation for themselves.
      Personally, I don’t think we should get preferential treatment for NHS augmentations just because we are transsexual – we already take a lot out of the NHS ‘pot’ with out main surgery and our life long hormone therapy.
      Just my own personal opinion though.

    2. Some women will get cosmetic surgery after mastectomy or lumpectomy (but not all by any stretch of the imagination) and some may get reductions done if it is a cause of persistent back pain. But breast enlargement really is not done for anyone. So some women have A cups, some will always want a Wonderbra, some will never need to even wear a bra (at the age of 37 and being a DD, I bloody envy them sometimes, everything heads south in the end). That’s just life and I’m really not sure that this is a discrimination issue if it can be widely shown that no one gets augmentation no matter how much they want it.

    3. dave wainwright 26 Sep 2011, 7:16pm

      A woman of my acquaintance has virtually no breasts and has suffered low self esteem for all of her adult life and the NHS does not offer breast augmentation to her , should she wish to have breast augmentation she will have to fund it herself . She has managed to survive with no breast tissue and chicken fillets for nearly 40 years to my certain knowledge .

    4. Nadine Stransen 26 Sep 2011, 7:31pm

      ….and then it will be something else she wants to get done – give me a break! I’m a tranny and community awareness and legal reform of the horrific amounts of discrimination and bullying are the answers NOT gallons of plastic surgery to hide oneself from bigoted mono-genders. You Brits certainly are more conservative than we Aussies….and your laws? What laws? Your pollies immitate ours! Albeit in a watered down version! I should know, google my name!

      1. Then, if “tranny” you are, kindly refrain from passing judgment on a transsexual.

  2. I find it surprising that a transgender person would use the term ‘half man’.

    I’m also inclined to think she should start saving up to fund her own boob job.

  3. At least the NHS retains an ounce of common sense… In a country that can’t provide adequate care to cancer patients, transplanting fake breasts onto a confused man should quite rightly be paid for by the one suffering with said confusion. Better yet, get him to grab his manhood and embrace how he was born.

    1. We are not ‘confused men’ Jack and you should be ashamed of yourself for referring to us in that manner.
      I went through years of inner torment before finally seeking treatment, I had reached the absolute depths of despair at that point. Nobody puts themselves through the agony of transsexual surgery (yes, it is terrifyingly painful) just because we are ‘confused’.
      Now, many, many years later I am a whole being finally and have a deep inner peace and no more confusion about the dichotomy which I experienced in my youth.

    2. That’s exactly what he’s doing most transexuals where born with either a female brain in a male body or a male brain in a female body.

    3. Jock S. Trap 27 Sep 2011, 11:50am

      Typical of someone with little regard for other human beings isn’t it Keith/Jack(ass)?!!!

  4. HelenWilson 26 Sep 2011, 4:22pm

    Like the rest of the women with a transsexual history on the NHS, I had to put up with what my genetics would allow, approx one size smaller than my mother.

    This is not something I can support its a frivolous litigation.

    1. I agree -many women have small boobs, or are even flat-chested. It’s well known that the NHS will not fund breast augmentation (ay least where it is clearly a cosmetic procedure). I have little sympathy, especially as I’ll be funding my own!

      1. HelenWilson 27 Sep 2011, 9:08pm

        I ha asymmetrical breasts one a size B the other a C I would never consider asking for a surgical solution via the NHS.

  5. Ashlee Kelly 26 Sep 2011, 4:29pm

    I can sympathise with this woman to an extent – I’d love to have a boob job paid for by the NHS. Hell, I think anyone would love to have cosmetic surgery for free. But at the end of the day, that’s what it is – cosmetic surgery. It’s not essential to have big boobs at all. That’s why I think the NHS is totally in the right to not provide her this surgery. With all these budget cuts going on, there are much more valuable surgeries that need this funding much more than someone wanting free breast augmentation. And I think if she were to win, it would set a bad precedent where anyone could try and claim a boob job. And at a time like this, where the NHS is strapped for cash, I think it would be a bad move.

    In a perfect world we’d be able to get any surgery we wanted for free. But face up to reality – it’s not feasible, and in no way essential. It just comes across as selfish in my opinion. Also, saying you’ve been left “half-man”? Considering she’s had bottom surgery, thats stupid.

    1. Ashlee – I cringe at the thought of a perfect world being one where people could get any surgery they wanted. How about people just being happy with what they have?

  6. What a misogynist this trans woman is.

    Some women have small breasts. When she says that being flat-chested leaves her ‘half-man, half woman’ then she is being offensive to flat-chested women everywhere.

    Is she so shallow that she bases her self-worth on the size of her breasts.

    If she wants big tits then she should save up for them and pay for them.

    1. Agreed. Whatever this lady’s situation, I found her remarks highly offensive.

    2. Jock S. Trap 27 Sep 2011, 11:55am

      Ok fair enough, I see your points actually and have to agree with them not my earlier post further down.

  7. christfourpointtwo 26 Sep 2011, 5:51pm

    i know men who could fill a c cup, and if you really want to get into gender specifics i would suggest doing so from a distance.

  8. I’m a trans woman and I think this is ridiculous. Hormones grow breasts for trans women, if they didn’t grow big enough for her taste, she should save up like all other small breasted women who want breast implants.

    1. Nadine Stransen 26 Sep 2011, 7:32pm

      Here here!

      1. SunnyNeverland 11 Oct 2011, 5:11am

        Well said!

  9. As a trans women I cant see why shes complaining, I’ve worked through my whole transition and after SRS provided by my nhs trust I do not plan on asking for breast augmentation, I plan on saving up and paying for it myself. Also my cousin who is cis gendered was refused breast augmentation on the nhs by her trust, so I dont really so it as discrimination

  10. Nadine Stransen 26 Sep 2011, 7:19pm

    I’m transgender and I think bigoted mono-genders should change their srewy attitudes NOT transgenders changing/mutilating our bodies!

    1. Purity Vendetta 26 Sep 2011, 11:32pm

      As a self confessed ‘tranny’ exactly what would you know about being transsexual? It’s being dragged under the TG banner with fetish dressing men like yourself just helps the world discriminate against transsexual women like us. My partner and I will be paying for all our surgery but understand that some others can’t. Why don’t you keep your gobby bloke opinions about things you’ll never understand to yourself. Blokes in frocks like you are the reason I’ve never had much to do with the ‘tranny man’ scene and refuse flatly to be classed as trans gender.

      1. Nadine Stransen 29 Sep 2011, 12:57am

        I’ve actually been living as a woman since I was 17 and am now 47yrs old. 75% of people normally described as transsexual do not have the surgery. I don’t appreciate your hate speech and nor would the the worlds first anti-villifaction laws covering people like us that I lobbied to get through The NSW Parliament (under NSW law the term you so hate would describe your self description i.e: transsexual). I also got the worlds first birth certificate, change of sex laws that do not require genital re-alignment to be the pre-requisite for having ones current lived gender indicated, along with anti-discrimination laws and the rest. These laws are currently being copied around So do your research please & show some respect! Feel free to google me! If it wasn’t for people like me you wouldn’t have any civil rights! The story was about breast implants and as there are small breasted women why not small breasted trannies? How ironic, Purity Vendetta sounds VERY drag queen for a name LOL

  11. postopgirl 26 Sep 2011, 8:06pm

    Having transitioned many many years ago, I have great knowledge on what HRT can and cannot achieve, breast growth depend on many factors, one being what size the girl’s mum was, but by no means the only factor. So Cathy should have had some basic idea of how large or otherwise her breasts would develop.

    I am a “D” cup, though I know I am lucky in that respect, and whilst I am aware of the strain on NHS funds, if blocks on breast augmentation should begin to set in, then aren’t there other procedures funded on the NHS which are genuinely caused by lifestyle choices, for eg, Smoking related illnesses requiring £M’s per year, A&E in every town hospital clogged up with alcohol fuelled yobs after boozy fights, obesity (yes I know not always but quite a lot judging from the media recently) get Gastric bands fitted etc etc, I would no more deny a lady a gastric band if it would save her life, than I would a smoker or drinker an operation to extend life, yet their illnsses are largely self inflicted, gender identity is NOT a lifestyle choice, it is a recognised medical condition.

    1. Smoking raises more in taxes than it costs society (NHS and reduced pensions). I will pay for my treatment for lung cancer in a few years hence, if cigarettes become untaxed and I get a rebate on what I’ve paid (over and above VAT).

  12. She could always buy wonderbras. I mean, unless one is looking for work as a prostitute or stripper, people (except loved ones) need not know which woman has no boobs these days.
    .

  13. A woman over 50 having undergone sex reconstructive surgery is unlikely to develop satisfactory breast tissue unless she has a very level oestrogen therapy for 5 years post operatively. This of course still assumes no enzymatic induction effect from other medicines.

    Charing Cross Hospital for political reasons based on inadequate and misrepresented science recommend & set post operative hormone regime that are inadequate for breast development.

    There are PCT guidelines for breast augmentation for women (without a transsexual history) and they apply or it is discrimination by means of having the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

    Of course if someone has not got a gender recognition certificate and therefore a female birth certificate they cannot expect to have women’s conditions applied to them.

    The law only recognises two sexes.

    1. Should read “very high level of oestrogen therapy”

  14. Lots of women have very small breasts but they don’t get breast surgery either. So I don’t understand why she should have special treatment just for being transgendered. NHS money should be used saving peoples lives.

  15. a transwoman will usually end up physically bigger than a cis woman and with smaller tits.making it even harder for them to be accepted as a woman. breast surgery should be considered as a usual part of srs that you can opt out of if you wish

    1. Having bigger tits will not make physically larger transwomen more ‘accepted’. That is false logic.

      Whether or not a transwoman ‘passes’ has very little to do with the size of her chest.

      The woman in this article seems motivated by greed, laziness and hatred of women (ironic seeing as she has transitioned into a sex that she judges based solely on their chest size.). Otherwise she would not be engaging in such a woman-hating exercise as naming flat-chested women ‘half-men’

    2. If you look at a cis women with natrual large breasts they natually also have wider hips. Therefore, without the wider hips a breast enlargement just makes both cis and trans women look unnatural and top heavy.

  16. Katie Kool-eyes 26 Sep 2011, 10:54pm

    I do feel for her in some ways, I imagine the outcome was very disapointing for her. However, something like this SHOULD be funded by herself. As many have stated, there are many “flat chested” cis women out there in the world, and many of them are refused funding.

    Myself, I am hoping to start hormones soon (got an appointment with gic late oct), I only have fingers crossed that I get a decent handful hehe

    But back to the point, I dont think it is any form of descrimination. Bit I hope she finds the funds for herself non the less

    Katie xXx

  17. the nhs, in areas will offer breast augmentation to cis and trans people. i think it should be fair all over and not just for the ‘lucky’ ones.

    1. I have never heard a case of either getting breast enlargement on the NHS at any PCT

      1. the nhs paid for my breast augmentation

        1. happy woman 27 Sep 2011, 8:42am

          So did I, and it’s made a very real difference to my quality of life as a successful woman. Hormones did little for me – to quote a (natal) woman on the ward of her initial impression of me “Poor cow’s got hardly any tits at all” while another asked “Why did you wait so long?” I don’t smoke, drink, do drugs, play risky sports or overeat and I do pay quite a lot of tax so I don’t see why my medical needs (because “gender reassignment” is about the person and not just genitals) can’t be met by the NHS in just the sameway as those of all the above categories of people.

          1. Well hormones can work for some transwomen.

            Some women grow up to have large breasts, some grow up to have small breasts.

            Hormones work for some transwomen and not for others,.

            It is truly gross and offensive to see people arguing that bigger tits give you a better quality of life.

            It is so degrading to women to see this type of superficial judgement..

            Transwomen want to be treated as women.

            Well women don’t get breast augmentation on the NHS for cosmetic reasons., Neither should transwomen.

      2. theotherone 27 Sep 2011, 3:14pm

        the NHS in Greater Glasgow do.

        She is indeed a victim of a ‘post-code lottery.’

  18. If large breasts are required for one to be a woman, then my ex-wife must have been “half man” as well! What a shock that would be for our children!!!

  19. But FtM Transsexuals get their breasts removed on the NHS so why aren’t MtF transsexuals given breasts on the NHS, surely that is discrimination.

    You can’t apply the values of the same criteria to the same condition and then say ” no you can’t have it ” .

    That’s just complete contradiction!!!!!

    1. Actually they get given hormones on the NHS which causes breast growth so it’s not a correct comparison. If the woman is not happy with the amounf breast tissue that grows, well that’s unfortunate. And too bad. But that’s life.

      1. Thia Jones 29 Sep 2011, 5:12pm

        Think that’s your male privilege talking David…

        1. Male privilege. What a load of nonsense. It would appear that you too Thia Jones are of the opinion that large breasts are necessary to be properly regarded as a woman.

          Why do you hate women in this way?

      2. Actually, yes, but on average most women do not have A-cup breasts the average cup size is a C-cup. It is the same comparison, HRT is given for psychological and physical benefits, it’s sole purpose is not to feminise the body. Do you know anything at all about Gender Dysphoria?

        Transmen have Phaloplastys on the NHS. Would it be fair to say that as a male if you had a micro penis ( goggle it, it’s a genuine medical condition ) and were suffering from mental anguish. embarrassment and physical anguish because you could not satisfy your partner and have low self esteem issues. You would jump at the chance if it was offered on the NHS, which it actually is, of course you would, you are a hypocrite.

        If this women needs BA because it finally makes her feel like a women, the it should be granted. Don’t you have any empathy for what Transsexuals have to suffer from the day they are born, are you totally devoid of compassion?

  20. Jock S. Trap 27 Sep 2011, 11:48am

    This is totally cruel and needless considering how must the NHS wastes. There is no need to treat Ms Daniels like this.

    I hope they find a way to help Ms Daniels start to get on with her life complete.

    1. Jock S. Trap 27 Sep 2011, 11:57am

      After looking at some arguements have to say I have changed my opinion and have to agree with David, Iris etc…

      1. theotherone 27 Sep 2011, 3:16pm

        Jack: in some areas there is this treatment offered so why not in all? It’s unfair and discriminatory.

        1. Just do not send any trans-person in London to the Tavistock clinic, with its rampant transphobia and homophobia

  21. Ergo…”I’m a FtM transsexual. I can have my breasts removed because men do not have breasts, this is not cosmetic surgery”.

    But then ” I’m a FtM Transsexual, I have no breasts and will not be given them because they are deemed as cosmetic”.

    WTF??!!

    1. That should have read MtF, my bad =)

    2. Actually you’ll get the breasts that form from the hormone treatment.

      If they are not large enough for your taste then do what generations of teenage girls have done – wear a Wonderbra.

      Otherwise save up the money and pay for breast enlargement.

      But don’t try to argue that large breasts are necessary to be a woman.

      They are not! And it is offensive to women to make the statement that a woman requires large breasts.

      1. But then test injections don’t reduce the size of FtM breasts so if they are not happy that the reduction of their breasts, they should pay themselves to have their breasts removed, you just proved my point.

        Just as Est injection don’t give MtF breasts, sometimes there is little growth and sometimes there is decent growth. If it’s the latter then augmentation should be given on the NHS.

        Your argument is basically this – transwomen take eostrogen to “get” breasts regardless of size and shape and shouldn’t be allowed to have augmentation as it’s deemed cosmetic.

        But you accept it’s fine for FtM Transseuxals to recieve Testoserone injections and have double mestectomies because the testosterone didn’t reduce the size of their breasts, it’s the same thing!!!

        You cannot argue it’s ok to remove breasts and then say it is not ok to give breasts for the same thing 0_o

        1. My arguement is actually that many women have small breasts.

          If a transwoman is not happy with her breast size then she should be treated in the same manner as a cis-woman who is unhappy with her breast size ie aw poor you – now go away and pay for new ones if they make you that unhappy.

          And any transwoman who regards having small breasts as being ‘half male’ should be regarded as a misogynist. She clearly has no knowledge or interest in women, if she can be so revoltingly woman-hating and shallow that she thinks that her self-worth is based on her breast size.

          1. David, I wholly agree with what you’ve said. There are two issues here – whether large breasts should be funded, and what this lady is reported to have said. For me, the second one of those is what really struck me. ‘Half-man’?? Excuse me! There are many, many women with small breasts and they are just as feminine and womanly as ones with large breasts – more so sometimes. That comment was something I’d have expected to hear from some leering, ogling straight man. It was insensitive and offensive to ALL women, regardless of their breast size.

            As for the issue of whether large breasts are ‘necessary’ for this lady, we don’t know her personal issues or her size, but, as others have said here, it is NOT breast size that gives transwomen away. It’s largely things like height, broad shoulders, big feet and hands. Having larger breasts in no way counteracts that – in fact, in my opinion, it just draws attention to the woman and makes people notice her physique more than they would have.

        2. Female hormones encourage breast growth. Male hormones might cause some reduction in breast size, but generally doesn’t. When it comes to affect on mammory tissue you can’t really compare them.

          MtFs don’t habitually get chest surgery because hormones do the job, whereas it doesn’t for FtMs. FtMs don’t habitually get voice coaching because hormones do the job, it doesn’t for MtFs so they get voice coaching. You can not directly compare our treatments.

          But really? all this in-fighting? Why are we bickering? We FtMs have our treatment paths and MtFs have theirs. It shouldn’t be us and them, we have few enough allies in the world as it is. We all need the treatment that we need so that we can function through life. We shouldn’t be seeking to hold each other back but instead seek to ensure consistent (good) treatment regardless of which PCT covers you.

      2. happy woman 27 Sep 2011, 12:59pm

        David – I never said that I required large breasts. My concern was that people sometimes failed to treat me as a woman because I had no worthwhile breast development. I was restricted in what clothes I wore, and in the activities I undertook, because people construed me as male and that was pretty undermining. My eventual breast size is not large by any means, just proportionate, and now allows me to lead the life I want to lead untroubled by those who would previously question my right to do so. And just as people define men to some extent by their genitals, so do others to women. Perhaps those are the people who should have paid for my op?

        1. “people sometimes failed to treat me as a woman because I had no worthwhile breast development.”

          I’ve never met you so cannot comment on your experience.

          What I can say is that many transomwen simply do not pass as women regardless of the size of their breasts. Their hands, faces, sheer physical size is far more of a giveaway than her breast size.

          So if having a nice rack is important to a transwoman then good for her.

          But to claim that a transwoman’s desire for big boobs is more worthy of taxpayer money than a ciswoman’s desire for big boobs is silly and offensive and reallty very selfish.

        2. “My concern was that people sometimes failed to treat me as a woman because I had no worthwhile breast development.”

          I’m glad you feel more in proportion now and that you are a happy woman. :) But I’d politely suggest that it wasn’t your bust size that made people not treat you as a woman. Maybe those people were/are insensitive and judgmental and that was the problem not your bust. I’d hope that most people, in an ideal world, wouldn’t be so unkind and would take people as they find them – although I know that sadly that’s far from the true situation.

  22. She’d be better complaining about the lack of Facial Feminisation Surgery provision on the NHS, rather than breast augmentations. Good FFS will gets trans women further than all the boobs in the world.

  23. Hmmmm while On one level I can sympathize on another I am a bit angry. Do other women get referred for breast augmentation and having had a mother with PD this ‘it’s not fair I am going to kill myself’ routine is rubbish, lots in life isn’t fair sweety and now she is a woman she will find lots more in this World that isn’t fair. Finally loving someone who through breast cancer has had a double mastectomy I know breasts don’t maketh the woman.

    1. Just to not send any trans-person in London to the Tavistock Clinic, with its rampant transphobia and homophobia!!!

  24. Er…… What is CIS?

    1. “Cis” is the antonym (antoprefix?) of “trans” – so a “ciswoman” is a woman who is not a “transwoman”.

  25. It’s Gender Trust, not Gender Society as mentioned in the article and where does the Gender Trust get off supporting people openly without asking what it’s membership wants….

  26. Also, the selfishness from this women is disgusting, she’s suicidal because she can’t have a Breast Op, how about the dozens of trans people who have committed suicide in areas such as Wales who have waited years to even get seen by a psych, yet alone anywhere near an operation!

  27. Nutjobsareeverywhere 28 Sep 2011, 6:17pm

    I’m a flat chested woman !! If I call myself half man and threaten suicide can I get a free boobjob ? Get real lady ! Jog on and get a job.

  28. I don’t understand the half man thing either. I have had augmentation ( I payed for it) because as has been said before if you start late breast growth is limited but I never ever thought I was half man. She may benefit from having her hormone regime looked at. IMHO too many endocronologists are too conservative, especially post op, with prescribing the ammount of hormone or the right type of hormone to promote change rather than sustain normal female levels of estrogen.

  29. Thia Jones 29 Sep 2011, 5:34pm

    Astonishing how unfeeling/misrepresenting/skewed the posts are on this.

    First, we have several MEN wading in with their opinions of what women should be entitled to (or rather shouldn’t be entitled to) in the way of breast enhancement on the NHS. Sorry guys, but why would you think your privileged opinions would be of any relevance here?

    Then we have misrepresentation – does this woman say that she wants ‘huge boobs’? Because that’s what seems to be assumed by many here. It’s quite possible that she has none at all, or little better than none at all and just wants, well, something that at least looks reasonably proportionate.

    And the male privilege comment, i’m afraid, also applies (if to a slightly lesser extent) to those from cis-privileged women. The facts here, are that breast enhancement is likely to become more of an issue for transwomen than it is for ciswomen – this is not to say that there are not also ciswomen who experience terrible problems as a result of reduced breast development – there clearly are and i can’t imagine a ciswoman with real issues about this not being supported by transwomen – msadly the same does not seem to be true in reverse “i can’t have it, neither should you” is not an argument for not funding necessary breast enhancements!

    I agree that breast enhancement shouldn’t be automatically provided to anyone who asks for it – it should be provided for those women, whether trans or cis, for whom it would alleviate self image problems – it just so happens that, for a number of reasons, transwomen are statistically more likely to have such problems than are ciswomen.

    1. Thia Jones 29 Sep 2011, 5:36pm

      …and how do we know the ‘half man’ thing is an actual quote, rather than, as is more likely, an insertion by the scurrilous tabloid journalist who wrote the original piece?

    2. Why shouldn’t men be entitled to an opinion? It’s their tax-funded NHS too!

  30. Leigh Walsh 29 Sep 2011, 5:41pm

    Sorry but I have to agree with the consensus here… small breasts does not equal “Half man”… some men even prefer small breasts.

  31. She should pay for her own boob job. There are things i would love to have done for free on the NHS. But i would rather pay private to get the cosmetic work done that i need.

    1. Yes, but you don’t have a condition that makes you want to kill yourself because you have the wrong body, gender dysphoria can only be cured by changing the body don’t you understand?

      Scientists have tried for decades to treat the mind, it’s never worked and will never work because the mind is what makes us who we are. Science has finally accepted that the only way to cure Gender Dysphoria is by changing the physical appearance of the person who is gender dysphoric, before you make stupid,idiotic and infantile assumptions,you should read about Transsexuals and Gender Dysphoria and the pain we have to suffer each and everyday.

  32. There are many cis women with small breasts. I mean, I know many self-described members of the “itty bitty titty club” (some of whom, admittedly, hold this as rather more of an honour than others), and I’m sure you all know folks who would fit that bill. And really, the idea that women need to have a certain chest size or else they aren’t “really women” is pretty damn misogynistic.

    I mean, I certainly understand the frustration when your body doesn’t do what your brain says it should, but if (as the article suggests) her biggest issue with her anatomy is one cis women have been dealing with since the human species first started developing our distinctive pronounced mammary glands, well…

    1. But the problem is even with small breasts a transwoman is dysphoric it’s her brain still telling her that something is not right with her body ffs really, don’t you get it?

      So until her brain finally accepts the image,she will be dysphoric,Christ some members who claim to be part of the LGBT community still have no clue.

  33. I respect the arguments made by both sides, but personally I don’t have a problem with it. Gender dysphoria must suck (I can’t even imagine) and I think the NHS should offer whatever treatment is needed.

    I found the journey towards accepting I was gay hard enough, and gender dysphoria and the journey to get through it must be a whole different ballpark.

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